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kikanjuu
07-23-2011, 02:54 AM
I am a newbie in terms of attacking escorted conveys.

Approaching me were 4 merchants, escorted by 4 destroyers.

I waited at the right front, at 150 feet under surface.


I hope the front destroyer could pass over top of my submarine. And then I could surface to periscope depth and attack the merchants.

So I wanted at 150 feet, with zero speed, "silently" as I wish.

However, when the front destroyer approached till "short range", it simply detected me and bombed me...

Is my tactic correct? How to approach escorted merchants without being detected by destroyers?

Mescator
07-23-2011, 03:02 AM
Try go a bit deeper. Under the thermal layer if possible. Also, keep a narrow aspect angle to the target, ie, point yourself at the DD's as the come over. Otherwise your giving them a few hundred feet of target to ping instead of 30 or so.

Finally, sometimes avoiding detection just wont happen if the scenario isn't in your favor. Looks for deep water and rough weather for the best chance.

kikanjuu
07-23-2011, 03:09 AM
Thanks for your quick reply.

What is your favored depth for ambushing?

If I point my submarine to DD, it brings some trouble to revert to orthognal angle for firing torpedos... Is this mandatory? Does it really differ a lot in aspect angle for hiding?

Wolferz
07-23-2011, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by kikanjuu:
Thanks for your quick reply.

What is your favored depth for ambushing?

If I point my submarine to DD, it brings some trouble to revert to orthognal angle for firing torpedos... Is this mandatory? Does it really differ a lot in aspect angle for hiding?

Your attack setup does require the proper angle in order to avoid the destroyers' sensor cone, which extends to the sides and also down in front of them. At 150' you are easily detectable by the most inept sonar operators. Especially if you present a 300' long image. Getting below the thermal layer will muck up their sonar most of the time, but will not help if you present such a broad sensor target. You want to stay skinny, or even better, stay out of the sensor cone and deep enough for sonar to bounce off the thermal layer instead of your sub. Your angle of attack need not be a perfect 90 degree setup.

Stay stealthy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mescator
07-23-2011, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by kikanjuu:

If I point my submarine to DD, it brings some trouble to revert to orthognal angle for firing torpedos... Is this mandatory? Does it really differ a lot in aspect angle for hiding?

It's a fairly good idea to do it. I generally try turn slowly as they come on so i maintain that angle. Once they're at about 100 - 110 or 70 - 80 I fire. Once you take into account speed, you hit fairly close to a 90.

But yeah, presenting the whole side of the boat is suicide =p

kikanjuu
07-23-2011, 07:58 AM
When the enemy destroyer is maneuvering in a S-shaped routine quickly around my submarine, how can I ensure that my submarine is constantly pointing to it under the thermolayer?

Wolferz
07-23-2011, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by kikanjuu:
When the enemy destroyer is maneuvering in a S-shaped routine quickly around my submarine, how can I ensure that my submarine is constantly pointing to it under the thermolayer?

Destroyer captains can be so inconsiderate.
How dare they! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Experience will assist you down the road. You can and will develop a feel for it. It takes time.
Patience is a virtue
In a Submarine it's a requirement

MWolfe1963
07-23-2011, 08:41 AM
Mods differ as far as escorts skill.

I will come at the group straight on about 1000 yards to the flank of the lead DD. As it approaches, I will then start helming towards it. Even zigging you should still be narrow at this distance. The goal is to turn towards it so as it passes your nose turning towards it's flank, moving towards the convoy track. This should put you far enough inside the track of the other flanking DD. When your in the lead escorts baffles come up and prepare to shoot.

This works great for large convoys. Smaller convoys I come in at a 45 between the lead and flank escort and shoot before the flank escort picks me up.

Mescator
07-23-2011, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by kikanjuu:
When the enemy destroyer is maneuvering in a S-shaped routine quickly around my submarine, how can I ensure that my submarine is constantly pointing to it under the thermolayer?

That generally means you've been discovered =p

paulhager
07-23-2011, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by kikanjuu:
I am a newbie in terms of attacking escorted conveys.

Approaching me were 4 merchants, escorted by 4 destroyers.

I waited at the right front, at 150 feet under surface.


I hope the front destroyer could pass over top of my submarine. And then I could surface to periscope depth and attack the merchants.

So I wanted at 150 feet, with zero speed, "silently" as I wish.

However, when the front destroyer approached till "short range", it simply detected me and bombed me...

Is my tactic correct? How to approach escorted merchants without being detected by destroyers?

As several others have pointed out, if you want to penetrate the screen and attack from within the convoy, you MUST descend below the thermal. You'll hear a crewman say "Crossing thermal layer" when this occurs. The depth of the "thermohaline" layer can be anywhere from 160' to 240'. Most times it's between 180' and 220'. I like to go 20' or so below that and then level off.

You also need to be somewhat off the track of enemy escorts. If they pass over your position or even as little as 1000 yards away, you may be detected, particularly if there is 0 wind.

You should look around on this forums for what is involved in making night surface attacks. I prefer that mode of attack, though you really need a number of mods in order to make that feasible. Within the last few months I posted a couple of detailed accounts of surface attacks. See Night surface attack: what do you do? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/1281071929/p/1) and The Art of the Night Surface Attack (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6421019045/m/3751011519?r=3751011519#3751011519). Those offer a pretty good overview of how to handle this kind of attack.

MWolfe1963
07-23-2011, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Mescator:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kikanjuu:
When the enemy destroyer is maneuvering in a S-shaped routine quickly around my submarine, how can I ensure that my submarine is constantly pointing to it under the thermolayer?

That generally means you've been discovered =p </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most the time the lead escort will do a zig pattern since convoys are slower, faster TF they generally don't.

WernherVonTrapp
07-23-2011, 04:19 PM
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b456/archangel501/thermocline.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

cgkstealth
07-23-2011, 07:22 PM
Someone is either very good with Photoshop or found a pretty neat picture. Either way it's cool. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Mescator
07-23-2011, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by MWolfe1963:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mescator:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kikanjuu:
When the enemy destroyer is maneuvering in a S-shaped routine quickly around my submarine, how can I ensure that my submarine is constantly pointing to it under the thermolayer?

That generally means you've been discovered =p </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most the time the lead escort will do a zig pattern since convoys are slower, faster TF they generally don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what i thought, but that sounds to me like the S patterns they run over you once they know where you are.

fireftr18
07-23-2011, 09:59 PM
There was a lot of good advise, but everyone missed the most basic. Start by reading the stickies under useful links and information. There is a lot of good advice and turorials there. Start your realism settings low and increase as you feel more confident. Make generous use of the turorials. Use them to learn the controls, maneuvering, navigation, etc. Then go on with the scenarios or a career. When you feel even more confident, then add the mods.

MWolfe1963
07-23-2011, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by Mescator:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MWolfe1963:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mescator:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kikanjuu:
When the enemy destroyer is maneuvering in a S-shaped routine quickly around my submarine, how can I ensure that my submarine is constantly pointing to it under the thermolayer?


That generally means you've been discovered =p </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most the time the lead escort will do a zig pattern since convoys are slower, faster TF they generally don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's what i thought, but that sounds to me like the S patterns they run over you once they know where you are. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mods may make a difference. With TMO/RSRD escorts constantly zig in front of the group. If they find you, then they come for you. The danger is getting caught broadside when they zig. The thing to watch out for is when they do zigs coming in your direct direction, then you've probably been found out.

Another thing is some escorts often seem to take off searching when nothing is there. You can set radius zones with each waypoint in which they will search within. Often it will leave a flank exposed in the convoy that you can take advantage off.

LouLewis1967
07-25-2011, 07:10 AM
Don't forget the effect of weather. In calm weather with no wind they will detect you much farther away. On the other hand, I've watched a screen sail right past my periscope no more than 200 yards away in really rough seas at night.