View Full Version : when tigers could fly sequel

09-30-2009, 10:16 AM
I have "When tigers could fly" installed, but could someone tell me what the other great download is called which also deals with the American volenteer group in China flying P40's against the Japanese. And is it available from Missions4today....Cheers. JM

09-30-2009, 10:27 AM
"white sun, blue sky"

Click! (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=2166)

Hm. Not too sure whether it is the one you meant though...

09-30-2009, 10:31 AM
That's the one I'm thinking of...

09-30-2009, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by jeffmorgan_947:
I have "When tigers could fly" installed, but could someone tell me what the other great download is called which also deals with the American volenteer group in China flying P40's against the Japanese. And is it available from Missions4today....Cheers. JM

Hi Jeff

WTCF was a lot of fun to do and I hope you enjoyed it. I updated and revised WTCF a while back to take advantage of a lot of new stuff the sim had to offer, mostly Japanese aircraft and objects that were brand new. That one is called 'white sun, blue sky' like FT mentioned, and it's not really a sequel, its a major overhaul and update. You'll see every mission from WTCF in WSBS, plus a whole lot more missions, and new maps.

I had considered doing a true sequel to WSBS but life got in the way. Now that the official 4.09 is coming out, I may do a set of upgrades to certain missions in WSBS, and I may release that, I don't know. I might end up just farting around with it

Here's the WSBS readme, although I no longer post regularly here. You're more apt to catch me at M4T:
Thank you for taking the time to download my latest campaign for Il2:Sturmovik:1946 version 4.07 and above, ‘white sun, blue sky’.

In this campaign, you will enter into a tour of duty as an ex-US military fighter pilot, recently resigned from active US Service and contracted to China, for defense against the invading Japanese, months before Pearl Harbor. You will conduct your operations out of several places in 'Burma' and 'China' in your career flying Hawk 81s and P-40Es with the American Volunteer Group, more commonly known as the 'Flying Tigers'.

If you do not have at least v4.07, you will be unable to play this campaign.

This campaign is a little different from any others you may have played. It will make available to you a brand new campaign branch by introducing a ‘country’ called “None”. There will literally be a country named “None” in the list of available countries in the Pilot Career menu after installation of ‘white sun, blue sky’.

To do this, I have not altered, hacked, or edited your campaign structure. I also have not over-written files, campaigns, awards, or records from any of the real, “named” countries, such as Great Britain, Germany, or France. I will very simply make an entirely new campaign folder, independent of others, from which ‘white sun, blue sky’ will run.

What will happen is that a new folder named ‘NN’ will be placed into your ‘Campaigns’ folder. The simulation is already coded to accept this ‘NN’ country’s folder (NN or nn is the abbreviation the sim recognizes for the “None” country). There simply is not an ‘NN’ folder when the sim ships. I am taking advantage of this, to make the “None” country a Flying Tigers campaign outlet.

On the very remote chance you have already installed some 3rd party campaign or software pack that makes use of this loophole, you may want to check to see if you have an ‘NN’ folder in your Campaigns folder (the simulation will recognize ‘nn’ and ‘NN’ interchangeably). If you are unsure of how to find this folder, here are simple instructions:

From your Il2:1946 folder, open the “Missions” folder. Now double-click the “Campaigns” folder. Check to see if you have a folder named ‘NN’ or ‘nn’ (you cannot have both). If you do, right click the folder, select “copy”, and then go to your desktop. Right-click the desktop, and select “paste”. You now have a back-up of your existing folder, and when you install ‘white sun, blue sky’, you will not over-write any files. It is extremely unlikely you will need to takes these steps however, as I know of no other campaigns that use the “None” country.

To begin a campaign using ‘white sun, blue sky’ as your Pilot Career, follow the instructions in the "INSTALL INFO" file that also came with this download. Once completed, click the ‘Pilot Career’ button in the sim as usual. Now select a country. You are looking for the country that literally is called None. To clarify: select the country named “None” as your country to play ‘white sun, blue sky’.

Once selected, you should hear custom music, and see a Chinese nationalist icon as your ‘country’s’ flag. From this screen, you can select rank and difficulty options as normal, and then begin the campaign

This campaign is a reasonably accurate representation of actions performed by the 3rd PS of the AVG. It is of course not perfect because of AI limitations, map constraints, and other factors. I have however, to the best of my ability, made as close a representation as possible of the events that happened. Some are, naturally, embellished.

What's with the name?

The "White Sun and Blue Sky" was the emblem of the Chinese nationalist party. These emblems adorned the wings of the AVG's aircraft and are the 'colors' they flew under

A note on historical accuracy:

The maps we have in the game are of course nothing like the ones really needed to make these missions authentic. Keen observers will note that I have placed some key locations in convenient, rather than Historically accurate, places. For instance, the 'real' Toungoo was North of Rangoon, not East of it, and the 'real' Magwe was not nearly so close to Lashio, let alone Loiwing, which I have even moved out of China into Burma! This was not through ignorance of their locations, but rather through the need to stay on a map. In addition, my "Kunming" comes under attack many times...in real life, the Japanese bombed it once during the day while the AVG was there- and well before the player's Squadron ever flew to the base! But, the player needed to stay on a map...

To tie the missions together without having the player constantly changing maps on every mission, I decided the best thing to do was to move these locations to where the player could access the majority of these places without having to leave one map, and 'air-start' on another

In several missions, the player will 'air-start', but why will become clear as it happens.

A note on terms:

In some briefings, the term "Jap" is used, and once, "Tojo". This is historically and contextually correct. I will make no excuses or make any apologies for use of these period-correct terms commonly used by Allied servicemen. Many things happened during that time that were horrible and barbaric. The use of a word such as 'Jap' in this campaign hardly qualifies as either. Please use some perspective if this offends you, because I will not change this. The term was used, fact, end of story as far as this project goes. We are not really at war here.

A note on graphics in general:

You may experience dropped frames if you play with graphic settings set too highly, while playing 'white sun, blue sky'. There are over 40,000 objects on one of my maps, others are not so heavily populated, but are still heavily object-intensive in some areas. You are well warned!

A note on aircraft:

Of course, not all Japanese aircraft used, or even all Allied aircraft used in 1941 and 1942 in the region of China and Burma are in the sim. With the addition of the Ki-21 and Ki-27, I have had at my disposal two key aircraft, but many, many more served both for and against the Japanese. To represent these planes, I have used substitutes, more commonly called 'hacks'

hack aircraft in 'white sun, blue sky':

U2-VS- hack for K5Y on operational trials with IJA (Imperial Japanese Army)
Pe-2- hack for Chennault's light twin engined aircraft
SB2M-100A- hack for IJA's Ki-48
Fi-156 "Storch"- hack for IJA's Ki-36
Ki-46- hack for IJA's Ki-45
Cr42- hack for IJA's Ki-10
DB3-F- hack for IJA's Ki-49
Ar196- hack for E13A on operational trials with IJA
D3A- hack for Ki-30
Su-2- hack for Ki-51
H8K1- hack for 'Civilian airliner: Empire flying Boat'
P-40C- hack for 'jury-rigged AVG H81A-2'
P-47- hack for CAF (Chinese Air Force) P-43 Lancer
I-153 hack for CAF Curtiss Hawk

aircraft used in 'white sun, blue sky':

H81A-2- AVG H81A-2 (or H81-3A, depending on sources)
P-40E- AVG P-40E
C-47- CAMCO C-47, RAF Dakota
LD2- IJA transport LD2
P-36- CAF Fighter
SB2M100A- CAF SB3M variant
Fw 189- license built IJA recon aircraft
Ju-52- license built, pre-war IJA transport
Ki-43- major IJA fighter
Ki-27- major IJA fighter
Ki-21- primary IJA bomber
Blenheim Mk IV- RAF bomber
Hurricane (various)- RAF fighter
Buffalo MkI- RAF fighter

The planes initially given to the AVG were most likely not the standard Hawk 81A. Strong evidence, both in the form of real Flying Tigers' experiences and recollections, and in the state of Curtiss' assembly lines at the time, suggests that the engines fitted to the AVG Hawks made considerably more power than a 'standard' Allsion engine of the same time. Some sources cite that the replacement engines provided were the more powerful ones, of which there were about 50- numerically half the number of AVG planes in 1941! In any case, the key was the engines' assembly line for the AVG powerplants- there was none. Instead, parts such as crankcases and crankshafts that were out of specification and 'rejected' on tolerance and clearance issues were reported to be hand fit together so the planes could get their engines. Reports indicate that the AVG planes could reach up to 370 mph in level flight, more than a bit faster than a contemporary P-40B or C! One pilot in particular notes a power setting he used once that gave him close to 1700 horsepower for a brief time. This is only one of the factors that allowed the AVG to have superiority in the air. Reduction gear failure in AVG Hawks bears out the suggestion that the engines were more powerful than the ones intended for their airframes.

In the simulation, the AVG Hawks will be underpowered. To partially counter this, I strongly recommend the player to turn "engine overheat" off while playing this campaign. The drag reduction and unlimited time allowed at high power do not completely satisfy the desire for substantially increased engine power, but it is all I can do short of convincing Oleg and the dev team to change the power outputs for the planes.

A note on maps:

Of course, there are no China, Rangoon, Kweilin, etc, etc maps in the sim. The Maps you see are the closest approximations to the actual areas represented as I could find, and each is heavily customised to more accurately reflect the areas they are meant to represent

Balaton1- Yunnan Province, China
Smolensk- Hanoi region, IndoChina
Online4Summer- Salween River Gorge
Lvov- North Burma
Prokhorovka- Chiengmai region, Thailand
Kuban- South Burma
Kursk- Kwangsi Province, China
Singpaore1- Haiphong region, IndoChina
Moscow1- Central Burma

Known Bugs:

There is a radio communication bug as I type this-

1) Some missions may (at the time of writing) display 'para' in the radio comm menu instead of the correct 'flight' when you access the radio commands. If you see 'para' instead of 'flight' do not be alarmed; this is a small bug, and will not influence game play. Your flight can still be contacted through the menu, by selecting the highlighted 'para'. This has been around a long time, and is not likely to be addressed



The excellent, helpful, and friendly Flying Tigers official website
The data-filled website pages of Mr. Dan Ford
The memoirs, anecdotes, and recollections of Mr. Erik Shilling, AVG
Mr. Tom Trumble's honest and brave words on his experiences in the AVG


Days of the Ching Pao
by Malcolm Rosholt ISBN 0-910417-07-05
Osprey Aircraft of the Aces #41 "American Volunteer Group colours and markings"
by Terril Clements, ISBN-10 : 1-84176-224-1
Osprey Aircraft of the Aces #35 "P-40 Warhawk Aces of the CBI"
by Carl Molesworth, ISBN 1 84176 079 X
The Concise Guide to Axis Aircraft of World War II
by David Mondey, ISBN 0-7651-9706-5
"Tex" Hill, Flying Tiger
by David Lee "Tex" Hill and Reagan Schaupp ISBN 1-885354-15-0
The Flying Tiger
by Jack Samson ISBN 1-59228-711-5
JANE'S Encyclopedia of Aviation
ISBN 0-517-69186-8

Special Credits:

You know who you are~

Arthur- support, suggestions, and general interest at all times
Jay- support, technical, and common sense help
Simon- inspiration and support
Jim- for the website and your help
Terry- general help and additional playtesting

Questions? Comments?
I regularly post on the official Il2 Forums, the SimHQ Il2 Forums, and at Mission4Today. My user-name is "BBB462cid" at Il2, "462cid' at SimHQ, and "Chris_Blair" at M4T. Please post or send me a Personal Message, and I will respond

Chris Blair March 24 2007

On this day in 1942, AVG Second Squadron Leader John Newkirk was killed in the line of duty in Thailand. A coincidental date to have all this ready.


09-30-2009, 04:35 PM
Awesome Stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I am always amazed at the time and effort people put into these campaigns.

BTW ... If you do decide to release a 4.09 version you may want to use the new inline engined Avia B549 as a ki-10 hack instead of the radial engined CR42.

09-30-2009, 04:39 PM
I absolutely love White Sun Blue Sky, Chris. Much appreciated. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

09-30-2009, 05:26 PM
Downloading again as I have a much better computer now.

Thanks again for this!

10-01-2009, 02:00 AM
Thanks Boys,Thats the one!thanks for the link FT, and thanks also to Scarsdalejack for that great introduction. And must agree with WTE-Galway,that i am also amazed at the time and effort some of you people put into these campaigns,i'm sure that you people are going to have a ball when that great day arrives and "Storm of War" is finally released???..........Cheers JM

10-01-2009, 07:08 AM
When Tigers could fly is my all time Fav Campaign. Very nicely done my friend!!! I think I have played it through several times over the last 2-3 years. I was very pleased to hear you gave it an overhaul.

When I went to mission 4 today I couldn't download it. IT says its not available for download. Has anyone else encountered this problem? Is there another source?

EDIT: Disregard this was a user error, It seems I needed to re-register.

10-01-2009, 03:25 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Awesome!Did not know about the sequel.Thanks for the info!!!!I just flew 5 missions and think it's great!

10-01-2009, 06:34 PM
Ditto here! Back when I used to fly IL2 a lot a few years ago, When Tigers Could Fly was my favorite user made campaign as well - I had a lot of fun with it.
I recently purchased IL2 1946 to reinstall on my much better system so I could get back into it while waiting for SOW, so glad I saw this thread - I have downloaded, installed, and will probably start the updated campaign tomorrow.

10-02-2009, 08:20 AM
There have been a lot of great mission/campaigns made by very talented individuals, but these two AVG campaigns are on the top of my list. The accolades are well deserved.

Good to see you cid. Hope all is well.