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View Full Version : The Truth - Atlantis Connection? Spoilers **UPDATED**



O6EvolutionIXMR
02-12-2010, 02:18 PM
Hey everyone. I'm new on this forum but have been a HUGE fan of AC since before the first release when the first screen shots surfaced.

After completing the second game a week after its release, questions started popping into my head. Questions & theories that I began really thinking about.
Anyway, I haven't posted anything because shortly after completing the game, my computer gave out so I had to replace it with a new one and only about 2 weeks ago did that happen.
Yesterday night I decided to make a video on my thoughts on how Assassin's Creed might have a connection with the story of Atlantis.
Watch my video, rate, comment, and let me know your thoughts on the subject and then scroll down for the update .
Thanks alot!
The Truth - Atlantis? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW13lBNOsF0)

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae159/EvolutionIXMR/mitsubishi_atlantis.jpg


http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae159/EvolutionIXMR/mitsubishi_shangrila.jpg



**UPDATE**

Well, yesterday night after completing the "Bonfire of the Vanities" DLC I decided to take a trip back to Monteriggioni and take a look at the codex pages. Maybe there is something that I missed when I originally read them after beating the game in November. Turns out that there are a couple of pages that do have some "hints" toward my Atlantis theory.

-Codex Page 17-

"Of all the things I've seen, none troubles me more than the image of the flames... Pillars so tall they seemed to pierce the heavens. The ground rumbled and shuddered. Mountains split and crack. Great metal towers splintered, their innards strewn about the ground... And everywhere there was screaming. A chorus so terrible that even now I feel its echoes still. What is this madness I have seen? Is it them, I wonder? Those who came before... Is this where they went? Into the fire? Into the dust? Perhaps this destructive power is what the Templars seek. That they might hold it over us a command devotion. What hope would we have, then, if they held such darkness in their hands - that they could murder the world..."

At first after reading this, I thought maybe it was a precognition of future civilization. Especially after reading the part where it says, "Great metal towers splintered". But when I got to the part where it says, "What is this madness I have seen? Is it them, I wonder? Those who came before..." I immediately thought about The Truth video. This must've been what Altair saw.
So in that case, if this vision took place in the past, then that should point directly to Atlantis.
According to Plato's Critias Dialogue, Atlantis was destroyed by a huge cataclysm of earthquakes & flood as a punishment by the gods( Maybe having something to do with what Minerva said (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Those_Who_Came_Before) )


-Codex Page 26-

"I have the answer now. I know the truth. I shall not touch that wretched thing again. Best that no one do, now or ever. I have tried - at last - to destroy it, but it will neither bend nor break nor melt. Oh the irony - I am certain if I asked, the Apple would tell me what need be done. But even this promise is insufficient. Always it holds one more gift to give. I must refrain. So it shall be sealed. We will take it to the island - once theirs, now ours. There is a treasury there - hidden well - and it shall have to suffice. Risky to separate myself from the artifact that others may discover it. Riskier still to keep it close. In time I will be tempted. I am weak. We all are. Who wouldn't be? Oh, the things I have seen... The tale is here - inside the text. Not between the lines but beneath them. Where only our eyes might peer. Go and see it for yourself. That you might succeed where I and the others have failed. Time marches on - bringing with it new discoveries and developments. And so at least one day the doorway might be opened and the message delivered. They will have their prophet."

The part that says, "So it shall be sealed. We will take it to the island - once theirs, now ours" is most likely referring to the place in The Truth video which I believe is Atlantis. Many believe that the mountain in the video looks like Mount Kilimanjaro, which I also agree that it does. But Mount Kilimanjaro is located in Tanzania, which everybody knows isn't an island. And although Cyprus doesn't have any mountains resembling Kilimanjaro, if Atlantis did go through such a large cataclysmic event that destroyed the city and caused such flooding, then it most likely would've changed the geography drastically(think Thera eruption and its caldera).
Also something I'd like to point out is that althought the mountain in the video appears to look like current-day Kilimanjaro, it doesn't mean that is what it looked like thousands of years ago. The current ice cap on Kilimanjaro is far smaller than what it looked like in ancient times due to valcanic activity inside the mountain(which is a stratovolcano).
http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/doatl_fj_1.jpg http://www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/religion/images/Atlantis-Painting.jpg

When I read the part that says, "There is a treasury there - hidden well - and it shall have to suffice", I though maybe it has something to do with the Oak Island (http://www.oakislandtreasure.co.uk/content/view/353/215/) story in Nova Scotia. But I'm a bit sceptical when it comes to that legend. Especially when you consider that Altair wants to hide it, and the story of Oak Island is that there is a Templar treasure that was hidden by THEM. Wouldn't make sense.
One more thing that caught my eye that I'd like to mention is the fact that "-hidden well-" is hyphenated(has dashes). Why would they do that? Is it to point toward a clue?
"Hidden well" might be referring to the treasure being hidden in a very good manner OR it could mean something completely different. Another word for "Well" is "Fountain. Atlantis had fountains, Sacred ones to top it off:

"Moreover, the land reaped the benefit of the annual rainfall, not as now losing the water which flows off the bare earth into the sea, but, having an abundant supply in all places, and receiving it into herself and treasuring it up in the close clay soil, it let off into the hollows the streams which it absorbed from the heights, providing everywhere abundant fountains and rivers, of which there may still be observed sacred memorials in places where fountains once existed; and this proves the truth of what I am saying". -Critias, Plato

Might there be some sort of connection there?

Anyway, let me know what you guys think.

kreepybeest
02-12-2010, 03:06 PM
cool video. you must have done a lot of research on this. it sounds pretty possible to me but i guess we are just going to have to wait to find out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Mitro-Blade
02-12-2010, 03:31 PM
Your theories are really good, i must say im impressed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Im not sure i can make up any arguments to counter your teories. We'll just have to wait and see http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-12-2010, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by kreepybeest:
cool video. you must have done a lot of research on this. it sounds pretty possible to me but i guess we are just going to have to wait to find out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Actually, I've always had an interest in history. And although games like these are fictional, their plots usually mimic actual events & stories that entice the mind.
Example: Many might not realize it but there actually WAS an order of Assassins called the Hashshashin. There was a real Al Mualim which who real name was Rashid ad Din Sinan. And there was real Masayaf which was called Alamut. It is very interesting when you actually read up on all the history(if your into it). You can read all about it in this book: The Templars and the Assassins (http://www.amazon.com/Templars-Assassins-Militia-Heaven/dp/089281859X) (Which is a great book btw, just finished it last week)

Captain Tomatoz
02-12-2010, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by O6EvolutionIXMR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kreepybeest:
cool video. you must have done a lot of research on this. it sounds pretty possible to me but i guess we are just going to have to wait to find out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Actually, I've always had an interest in history. And although games like these are fictional, their plots usually mimic actual events & stories that entice the mind.
Example: Many might not realize it but there actually WAS an order of Assassins called the Hashshashin. There was a real Al Mualim which who real name was Rashid ad Din Sinan. And there was real Masayaf which was called Alamut. It is very interesting when you actually read up on all the history(if your into it). You can read all about it in this book: The Templars and the Assassins (http://www.amazon.com/Templars-Assassins-Militia-Heaven/dp/089281859X) (Which is a great book btw, just finished it last week) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alamut and masyaf are 2 different places aren't they. Alamut was like the HQ and masyaf was just an assassin stronghold

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-12-2010, 03:54 PM
I'd also like to add something further to my theory that I didn't add in the video.

The city supposedly was destroyed in a single night by floods & earthquakes.

Now I didn't see the movie 2012 yet, but from what I understand, they propose the theory(which is debatable by many) that a huge cataclysmic event can occur if the Sun produces a large enough solar flare. Fact: 2012's working title was "Farewell Atlantis"
Minerva mentions at the end of the game that our civilization was destroyed before(Atlantis maybe) and that Desmond must find the other temples("Built by those who knew to turn away") in order to save the world.

Pyramids of Giza, Yucatan, China, etc. Huge megalithic temples spread out throughout the world in parts that didn't have any sort of communication until the Age of Discovery started in the 15th century. How did they manage to all build similar designs? How did they build them at an age where ancient man was just emerging?
Could these temples be from the descendants of Atlantis?
Anyway, I can go on and on about this. There is so much mystery in this world we live in. I am grateful that there is actually a game that focuses on alot of these great topics.

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-12-2010, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Tony6593:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by O6EvolutionIXMR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kreepybeest:
cool video. you must have done a lot of research on this. it sounds pretty possible to me but i guess we are just going to have to wait to find out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Actually, I've always had an interest in history. And although games like these are fictional, their plots usually mimic actual events & stories that entice the mind.
Example: Many might not realize it but there actually WAS an order of Assassins called the Hashshashin. There was a real Al Mualim which who real name was Rashid ad Din Sinan. And there was real Masayaf which was called Alamut. It is very interesting when you actually read up on all the history(if your into it). You can read all about it in this book: The Templars and the Assassins (http://www.amazon.com/Templars-Assassins-Militia-Heaven/dp/089281859X) (Which is a great book btw, just finished it last week) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alamut and masyaf are 2 different places aren't they. Alamut was like the HQ and masyaf was just an assassin stronghold </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, your right. I got the names screwed up. It was Masyaf.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Masyaf_-_Gesamtansicht.jpg

SneakyStabz
02-12-2010, 04:22 PM
LOVE the video, nicely done!

I find your theories quite interesting as I'm a bit of a history buff myself.

This would make an interesting twist for the game, as it would keep the game set in earlier centuries while still giving them a reason to add more of a "modern" technological city/environment to explore.

Hehe, Ubi should hire you to help write for them! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-12-2010, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by SneakyStabz:
LOVE the video, nicely done!

I find your theories quite interesting as I'm a bit of a history buff myself.

This would make an interesting twist for the game, as it would keep the game set in earlier centuries while still giving them a reason to add more of a "modern" technological city/environment to explore.

Hehe, Ubi should hire you to help write for them! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Appreciate the compliments, but my theories are derived of those by Graham Hancock (http://www.grahamhancock.com/) . The man is a true genius. I've read several of his books and would recommend any of you who are interested in the subject to check out some of his videos on Youtube. He opens up your eyes & mind in a way where you think, "Damn, there really is something bigger than we think out there".

Azugo
02-12-2010, 04:48 PM
Oooh! I love Stargate! XD

I'm pretty sure we've talked about this before, in another thread.


Staaaaargaaaate, it's a great big woooooorld. Full of many things, you don't know what you'll find out theeeeeree.

Something something...

There's Colonel. O'neill and Carter and Daniel and Teeeeaaal'c. Just watch out for the G g g g g g Goa'uld.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

EzioAssassin51
02-12-2010, 05:13 PM
Wow! What a great video!!!

That was very interesting!

I am actually planning on writing a fictional novel to do with Atlantis and my theory is that they were a very advanced and powerful civilization, making things like cures for diseases like cancer, discovering immortality, and certain things like primitive laser guns and hover vehicles. The main story centers on a certain object they forged but i won't tell you about that because it's a long story. What i believe, and what is in the story, is that they angered Greek Gods with jealousy and with their power so Zeus destroyed Atlantis and made it sink!

So that's my theory haha!

May i ask where you got those screen shots from btw?

godsmack_darius
02-12-2010, 06:52 PM
Great theory dude!!

Although, I am pretty sure their in Africa in the truth video, due to Mount kilomonjaro, and Those who came before is another name for Annunaki whih translayes Those who from heaven came to earth, Or something like that, and their theory is that they created humans as SLAVES TO mine gold, and lots of other stuff.

Just like those who came before,

And the vaults...Well...I can guarantee you theirs gonna be one in Egypt http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Heres a video on Annunaki. it also explains we are not even from planet earth (us humans) we were just made here, we are not of this planet, the planet belongs to the hominoids (big foot, yeti, etc etc)


http://video.google.com/videop...intervention+theory# (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1285345463618889531&ei=B2JqScX6KIvCrQKU_s2tDA&q=intervention+theory#)

Very interesting video, You will cringe with excitement, its AMAZING

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-12-2010, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by EzioAssassin51:
Wow! What a great video!!!

That was very interesting!

I am actually planning on writing a fictional novel to do with Atlantis and my theory is that they were a very advanced and powerful civilization, making things like cures for diseases like cancer, discovering immortality, and certain things like primitive laser guns and hover vehicles. The main story centers on a certain object they forged but i won't tell you about that because it's a long story. What i believe, and what is in the story, is that they angered Greek Gods with jealousy and with their power so Zeus destroyed Atlantis and made it sink!

So that's my theory haha!

May i ask where you got those screen shots from btw?

Thanks. Good luck with your book too!

As far as the screenshots, I drove to Montreal the other day and broke into Ubisoft and downloaded these from one of their computers into a flash-drive, Mission Impossible-style!

LoL, actually believe it or not, there were Mitsubishis in those shots. I kinda borrowed them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://theinspirationroom.com/...00-in-secret-cities/ (http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/2008/mitsubishi-strakar-l200-in-secret-cities/)
Anyway, as the owner of a new '10 Mitsubishi and being my second one in 3 years, I'm sure they don't mind much hehe.
Five minute photoshop. Do they look convincing?

godsmack_darius
02-12-2010, 07:27 PM
LOL, Total win dude!

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-12-2010, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by godsmack_darius:
Great theory dude!!

Although, I am pretty sure their in Africa in the truth video, due to Mount kilomonjaro, and Those who came before is another name for Annunaki whih translayes Those who from heaven came to earth, Or something like that, and their theory is that they created humans as SLAVES TO mine gold, and lots of other stuff.

Just like those who came before,

And the vaults...Well...I can guarantee you theirs gonna be one in Egypt http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Heres a video on Annunaki. it also explains we are not even from planet earth (us humans) we were just made here, we are not of this planet, the planet belongs to the hominoids (big foot, yeti, etc etc)


http://video.google.com/videop...intervention+theory# (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1285345463618889531&ei=B2JqScX6KIvCrQKU_s2tDA&q=intervention+theory#)

Very interesting video, You will cringe with excitement, its AMAZING

It does look alot like Mount Kilimanjaro, and believe me, it is the first thing that came to mind when I first saw the video. But, you have to take into consideration that Atlantis supposedly went thru great seismic activity and was part of a huge Deluge/Flood. Whatever geological features that existed would now be either transformed or hidden(underwater).
The story of Atlantis predates Sumerians(Anunnaki) by several millenia, putting it around the same time as the Great Flood(aka Biblical) according to the Greeks. Coincidence?

godsmack_darius
02-12-2010, 08:02 PM
In theory it predates them by millenia, but at the same time it doesnt predate Annunaki.

But! according to the theory about the annunakie coming to earth and creating humans here, it only dates back 250 000 YEARS ago, their were no humans before then, only hominoids which were ape like creatures, who are NOTHING like us in any way.

But from the looks of this game, it could go either way, it could go to Atlantis, or Ancient sumeria/Africa, and follow the Annunaki, Im up to following either one

agentpoop
02-13-2010, 01:26 AM
Random comment, I bet Altair is looking at that city in the picture and is thinking " Damn I wish I could swim"

the amolang
02-13-2010, 02:14 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif great vid! its done really well compared to many other theory vids. good job! interesting theory too...

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-13-2010, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by nateoak10:
Random comment, I bet Altair is looking at that city in the picture and is thinking " Damn I wish I could swim"

He's thinking, "Damn, maybe someday one of my descendants will learn how to swim".


Originally posted by amolang:
great vid! its done really well compared to many other theory vids. good job! interesting theory too..."


Thanks for the compliments guys

TheDarkKnigg1
02-14-2010, 08:31 PM
I love the whole Atlantis theory, it's so freaking awesomely interesting.

Bampire
02-15-2010, 12:33 AM
You're not the only one thinking there might be a connection with Atlantis. I too think that. Though, right now I don't have much to say.

CEO_of_Abstergo
02-15-2010, 11:03 AM
That is a really cool video. Well done.

In referencing "Fingerprints of the Gods" and other Graham Hancock works, I have to point out the American originator of most of the ideas Hancock and so so many others "heavily borrow" to this day...

Ignatius Loyola Donnelly. He was a US Congressman, Lt. Governor of Minessota, and son of a FreeMason - way back in the 1860's !! He published the books that brought Atlanean Origin themes to the forefront of literature way back then, and even got everyone talking about Mayanism for the first time. He's also the first one to publicize the theory that Shakespeare was merely Sir Francis Bacon. I.L.Donnelly was certainly an "initiate".

Sorry, but being very familiar with Donnelly's and related works, it makes Hancock less genius, more hack.

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-15-2010, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by CEO_of_Abstergo:
That is a really cool video. Well done.

In referencing "Fingerprints of the Gods" and other Graham Hancock works, I have to point out the American originator of most of the ideas Hancock and so so many others "heavily borrow" to this day...

Ignatius Loyola Donnelly. He was a US Congressman, Lt. Governor of Minessota, and son of a FreeMason - way back in the 1860's !! He published the books that brought Atlanean Origin themes to the forefront of literature way back then, and even got everyone talking about Mayanism for the first time. He's also the first one to publicize the theory that Shakespeare was merely Sir Francis Bacon. I.L.Donnelly was certainly an "initiate".

Sorry, but being very familiar with Donnelly's and related works, it makes Hancock less genius, more hack.

I'll have to disagree with that. Most of Hancock's theories are derived from new scientific data & discoveries not yet available in Donnelly's time. I actually read "antediluvian world" in 8th grade. Great book might I add.

CEO_of_Abstergo
02-15-2010, 12:41 PM
Maybe we disagree on 'genius' in this context. The one who puts the disparate clues together and comes up with a hypothesis or theory is the genius; those who come after with further proof due to modern instrumentation are just articulate disciples.

Respect to them, but they are not the genius originators of the "ideas" that Atlantis, or the Lost Continent of Mu, existed in reality as our societal progenitors. Plato is the first to put "Atlantis" to written historical record. Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg (a french priest who went to QUEBEC CANADA and Boston with some Mayan codex docs, which sounds oddly fitting to AC!) was really the first to expose it as a real notion of predecessor, through Mayan glyph and codex discoveries left from 1600's conquistadors. The term "Mu" is attribted to him. His theories were all considered junk back then. I.L.Donnelly had better reception with the US/English audiences of about the same time, same ideas.

My point is that the geniuses usually get laughed at in their day for the IDEA. Those like Hancock are just disciples trying to prove the geniuses were right. You gotta go read the work of the laughed at genius before their later believers (which I see you did in 8th grade, cool.) :-)

godsmack_darius
02-15-2010, 12:58 PM
ANNUNAKI!!!

Varenis
02-15-2010, 01:13 PM
Possible, though I doupt that we will see Ezio climbing the walls of Atlantis anytime soon - most likely never.

Awesome pictures.

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-15-2010, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Varenis:
Possible, though I doupt that we will see Ezio climbing the walls of Atlantis anytime soon - most likely never.

Awesome pictures.

I don't think so either. I never said that the next game will take place there. I just think that Atlantis will be put into the Assassin's Creed storyline somehow.

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-19-2010, 04:33 PM
Updates on first post.

BrianHanna
02-19-2010, 05:57 PM
put in a spoiler in the title

O6EvolutionIXMR
02-19-2010, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by BrianHanna:
put in a spoiler in the title

Just did, but using common sense, with a thread title like that should be obvious.

El_Sjietah
03-24-2010, 09:43 AM
On the bits from the Codex pages:

I believe the horrible thing Altair saw, was the cataclysm Minerva told about and not so much the escape of Adam and Eve we see in the Truth video.
According to Minerva, the human revolt started after Adam and Eve took the piece of Eden. Because of this revolt, those who came before didn't pay enough attention to what was happening outside of Earth and therefor didn't notice the coming solar flare in time.
It's this solar flare that caused the disaster Altair witnissed when he peered into the Apple, which happened a significant time after the actions that we see in the Truth video.

And the island Altair is taking the Apple to is Cyprus, not Atlantis. "Once theirs, now ours" refers to the Templars, not those who came before. According to one of the handheld AC games (not sure which), the Assassins took Cyprus from the Templars, who were looking for a vault somewhere on the island.
The fact that in AC2 the apple is recovered from Cyprus supports this as well.

nets19
03-25-2010, 08:43 AM
Codex Page 26-

"I have the answer now. I know the truth. I shall not touch that wretched thing again. Best that no one do, now or ever. I have tried - at last - to destroy it, but it will neither bend nor break nor melt. Oh the irony - I am certain if I asked, the Apple would tell me what need be done. But even this promise is insufficient. Always it holds one more gift to give. I must refrain. So it shall be sealed. We will take it to the island - once theirs, now ours. There is a treasury there - hidden well - and it shall have to suffice. Risky to separate myself from the artifact that others may discover it. Riskier still to keep it close. In time I will be tempted. I am weak. We all are. Who wouldn't be? Oh, the things I have seen... The tale is here - inside the text. Not between the lines but beneath them. Where only our eyes might peer. Go and see it for yourself. That you might succeed where I and the others have failed. Time marches on - bringing with it new discoveries and developments. And so at least one day the doorway might be opened and the message delivered. They will have their prophet."

The part that says, "So it shall be sealed. We will take it to the island - once theirs, now ours" is most likely referring to the place in The Truth video which I believe is Atlantis. Many believe that the mountain in the video looks like Mount Kilimanjaro, which I also agree that it does. But Mount Kilimanjaro is located in Tanzania, which everybody knows isn't an island. And although Cyprus doesn't have any mountains resembling Kilimanjaro, if Atlantis did go through such a large cataclysmic event that destroyed the city and caused such flooding, then it most likely would've changed the geography drastically(think Thera eruption and its caldera).
Also something I'd like to point out is that althought the mountain in the video appears to look like current-day Kilimanjaro, it doesn't mean that is what it looked like thousands of years ago. The current ice cap on Kilimanjaro is far smaller than what it looked like in ancient times due to valcanic activity inside the mountain(which is a stratovolcano).

I think what Altair means is Cyprus. They took the apple to cyprus and hid it there.
"once theirs, now ours" confirms this. In Ac:bloodlines Altair helped to free Cyprus from the templars.
In Ac2 the Templars sent an expedition to cyprus to recover the artifact(altho Altair hid it well..hmm)
What Altair saw whas the destruction of the world which whiped out "those that came before" and all what they built.
I think the "city?" Adam and Eve are fleing in the Truth vidoe may very well be Atlantis. All the evidence refer to it. Great job

iPopbox
03-25-2010, 06:27 PM
Really great theory keep it up.

darth_krypt
03-25-2010, 09:34 PM
Very good theory. But the question is, does the writing team thinks the same way as you?

Brett_Master5
03-26-2010, 03:07 AM
I do think the Altair not being able to swim thing is kinda funny, but at the time it's more than plausible that not everyone knew how to swim, especially in areas where oceans or lakes were not likely to be found.

As for the Atlantis theory, quite interesting and well thought out, but I don't think that is what's going on. As others have said the island he takes the Apple to is Cyprus. The -hidden well- is given a pause and emphasise to how well the temple is hidden. Nothing more. Not to mention even Altair states "the truth does not lie between the lines..."

The mountain in the video is Mt Kilamnajaro. I just think that the graphics designers didn't have a very good idea on what the volcano looked like at the time they wanted to set that scene. Not to mention, it would make sense that they would be in Africa or around the mountain, as Africa is noted as being the cradle of life.

mhmd_ebo
06-04-2010, 09:34 AM
i found it yeah yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah



i finished this game in 28 hrs only i worked hard for this and enjoyed every moment of playing espicially gettin know to the story Nothing Is True Everything Is Permitted ,,, i was shoked when i saw minerva told ezio tht she is talkin to Desmond then she know he is in the anmus ,, he was choosed by her to save the earth ,,, read and u will know wht i mean,,,,, and after unlocking the truth and suffered from this hard mysteries i got video of adam and eve in future ,,,tht mens the history willl repeat it self,,, they were running from some one but now after looking for this religin i foun it,,,,,adam,eve, And the numbers at the end of the video was EDEN in binary code ,,now i just began,,,the story:there was humans on the face on the earth no one knowed who created them ,,,some ppl say there were aliens created human and helped them like maya and pharos who build the pyramids and we dunno how they built them.....plz read book of Moris katchem jipos,,,,,,,,,,aliens used pieces of eden to creat humans,,,,and aliens conrolled humans,,,but adam and eve stole apple of eden to prevent aliens from conrolling humans,,,,and revolution happened when assassins(first of them were adam and eve) and tempelars (first of em was cian who killed his brother) but minerva the sun one of earth creators was mad of humans and burned the earth not all humans died some of them remained ,,now no one remember that its only told for children before they sleep but they remember that earth will be burn again and all humans will be doomed in 21-12-2012 so but EZIO found it sooooo early he wont live till 2012 now EZIO search how he can keeep this secret to all assassins after him,,,only one thing will save the earth ,,is to return the apple back to sun in 2012 the upcomin brother hood was made cause there must be end for the story next time ezio sure will search for eden patrts to kill temprals who want these pieces

O6EvolutionIXMR
06-04-2010, 09:55 AM
Yes. Alot of those theories have been discussed on this forum in the past.

PlagueDoctor357
06-04-2010, 10:54 AM
I didn't read all the posts.

Just wanted to correct the Once theirs, now ours thing about the island.

They're talking about Cyprus, where the templars retrieved it in AC2.

wanderer77
06-04-2010, 11:00 AM
and correct me if im wrong, but doesnt rivers flow INTO the mediterranean? not OUT OF? that would sort of be useful to know, if you were going to propose Atlantis=Eden=Cyprus. Eden is the source for 4 rivers.

O6EvolutionIXMR
06-04-2010, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by wanderer77:
and correct me if im wrong, but doesnt rivers flow INTO the mediterranean? not OUT OF? that would sort of be useful to know, if you were going to propose Atlantis=Eden=Cyprus. Eden is the source for 4 rivers.

Here you go. (http://www.ubthenews.com/summaries/garden_of_eden.htm)
Read below "image 4".
http://www.ubthenews.com/images/garden_of_eden_img04.jpg

mhmd_ebo
06-04-2010, 02:06 PM
my theory mention atlantis
it wasnt mentioned like this ...mine is the best and i think there will be assassin'screed in atlantis or iraq sumarian or egypt or they will fast forward and go to the present p.s my theory mention atlantis cause these ppl was giving some powers and there culture look like future of our present and thts wht iam talkin about but all tht before sunn was mad of earth humans

mhmd_ebo
06-04-2010, 02:08 PM
My theory ::i finished this game in 28 hrs only i worked hard for this and enjoyed every moment of playing espicially gettin know to the story Nothing Is True Everything Is Permitted ,,, i was shoked when i saw minerva told ezio tht she is talkin to Desmond then she know he is in the anmus ,, he was choosed by her to save the earth ,,, read and u will know wht i mean,,,,, and after unlocking the truth and suffered from this hard mysteries i got video of adam and eve in future ,,,tht mens the history willl repeat it self,,, they were running from some one but now after looking for this religin i foun it,,,,,adam,eve, And the numbers at the end of the video was EDEN in binary code ,,now i just began,,,the story:there was humans on the face on the earth no one knowed who created them ,,,some ppl say there were aliens created human and helped them like maya and pharos who build the pyramids and we dunno how they built them.....plz read book of Moris katchem jipos,,,,,,,,,,aliens used pieces of eden to creat humans,,,,and aliens conrolled humans,,,but adam and eve stole apple of eden to prevent aliens from conrolling humans,,,,and revolution happened when assassins(first of them were adam and eve) and tempelars (first of em was cian who killed his brother) but minerva the sun one of earth creators was mad of humans and burned the earth not all humans died some of them remained ,,now no one remember that its only told for children before they sleep but they remember that earth will be burn again and all humans will be doomed in 21-12-2012 so but EZIO found it sooooo early he wont live till 2012 now EZIO search how he can keeep this secret to all assassins after him,,,only one thing will save the earth ,,is to return the apple back to sun in 2012 the upcomin brother hood was made cause there must be end for the story next time ezio sure will search for eden patrts to kill temprals who want these pieces

O6EvolutionIXMR
06-04-2010, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by mhmd_ebo:
My theory ::i finished this game in 28 hrs only i worked hard for this and enjoyed every moment of playing espicially gettin know to the story Nothing Is True Everything Is Permitted ,,, i was shoked when i saw minerva told ezio tht she is talkin to Desmond then she know he is in the anmus ,, he was choosed by her to save the earth ,,, read and u will know wht i mean,,,,, and after unlocking the truth and suffered from this hard mysteries i got video of adam and eve in future ,,,tht mens the history willl repeat it self,,, they were running from some one but now after looking for this religin i foun it,,,,,adam,eve, And the numbers at the end of the video was EDEN in binary code ,,now i just began,,,the story:there was humans on the face on the earth no one knowed who created them ,,,some ppl say there were aliens created human and helped them like maya and pharos who build the pyramids and we dunno how they built them.....plz read book of Moris katchem jipos,,,,,,,,,,aliens used pieces of eden to creat humans,,,,and aliens conrolled humans,,,but adam and eve stole apple of eden to prevent aliens from conrolling humans,,,,and revolution happened when assassins(first of them were adam and eve) and tempelars (first of em was cian who killed his brother) but minerva the sun one of earth creators was mad of humans and burned the earth not all humans died some of them remained ,,now no one remember that its only told for children before they sleep but they remember that earth will be burn again and all humans will be doomed in 21-12-2012 so but EZIO found it sooooo early he wont live till 2012 now EZIO search how he can keeep this secret to all assassins after him,,,only one thing will save the earth ,,is to return the apple back to sun in 2012 the upcomin brother hood was made cause there must be end for the story next time ezio sure will search for eden patrts to kill temprals who want these pieces

Seriously dude, can you stop!? How many times are you going to post the same thing?

wanderer77
06-04-2010, 02:20 PM
my theory is that earth will die not from the sun but from the overload of fail from human mind. once a certain forum poster has posted the same message 21122012 times the epicness of the fail will overload the internets and cause earthquakes and hurricanes all over the world.

O6EvolutionIXMR
06-04-2010, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by wanderer77:
my theory is that earth will die not from the sun but from the overload of fail from human mind. once a certain forum poster has posted the same message 21122012 times the epicness of the fail will overload the internets and cause earthquakes and hurricanes all over the world.

LoL

Marius_Darkwolf
06-05-2010, 01:40 AM
I do actually like your Atlantis theory. It kind of makes sense especially since we know that TWCB are the basis for the gods of different cultures. Each of those same cultures could/would have different explainations for why they aren't around any more. Ragnorok for the Norse, Atlantis/Mu for the Greeks, The Flood for the Jews, Christians, and Muslims (They share the same begaining). Heck I wouldn't be surpised if the Burmuda triangle was one of the "Temples". And another thing to help support the theory. There is the Pangea theory, that Earth only had one, huge, supercontinent until a cataclism struck and caused it to break apart. Might tie in fairly well.

BTW I love the pictures

El_Sjietah
06-05-2010, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by Marius_Darkwolf:
I do actually like your Atlantis theory. It kind of makes sense especially since we know that TWCB are the basis for the gods of different cultures. Each of those same cultures could/would have different explainations for why they aren't around any more. Ragnorok for the Norse, Atlantis/Mu for the Greeks, The Flood for the Jews, Christians, and Muslims (They share the same begaining). Heck I wouldn't be surpised if the Burmuda triangle was one of the "Temples". And another thing to help support the theory. There is the Pangea theory, that Earth only had one, huge, supercontinent until a cataclism struck and caused it to break apart. Might tie in fairly well.

BTW I love the pictures

Well, it's fact that there was once one supercontinent containing all landmass. It's also fact that that continent split up over millions of years because of tectonic plate movement. No idea why people need to bring cataclysmic events into these kind of things.

Marius_Darkwolf
06-05-2010, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marius_Darkwolf:
I do actually like your Atlantis theory. It kind of makes sense especially since we know that TWCB are the basis for the gods of different cultures. Each of those same cultures could/would have different explainations for why they aren't around any more. Ragnorok for the Norse, Atlantis/Mu for the Greeks, The Flood for the Jews, Christians, and Muslims (They share the same begaining). Heck I wouldn't be surpised if the Burmuda triangle was one of the "Temples". And another thing to help support the theory. There is the Pangea theory, that Earth only had one, huge, supercontinent until a cataclism struck and caused it to break apart. Might tie in fairly well.

BTW I love the pictures

Well, it's fact that there was once one supercontinent containing all landmass. It's also fact that that continent split up over millions of years because of tectonic plate movement. No idea why people need to bring cataclysmic events into these kind of things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because I had heard that there was a cataclysmic event that caused it. Mind you the things I've heard differs between, polar switch, the dinosaur killing meteor, and a glancing blow from the moon. Especially if the tectonic plate wasn't that stable to began with. I mean something had to happen to cause it to break up, and honestly a breakup like that would qualify as a cataclysm

El_Sjietah
06-05-2010, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by Marius_Darkwolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marius_Darkwolf:
I do actually like your Atlantis theory. It kind of makes sense especially since we know that TWCB are the basis for the gods of different cultures. Each of those same cultures could/would have different explainations for why they aren't around any more. Ragnorok for the Norse, Atlantis/Mu for the Greeks, The Flood for the Jews, Christians, and Muslims (They share the same begaining). Heck I wouldn't be surpised if the Burmuda triangle was one of the "Temples". And another thing to help support the theory. There is the Pangea theory, that Earth only had one, huge, supercontinent until a cataclism struck and caused it to break apart. Might tie in fairly well.

BTW I love the pictures

Well, it's fact that there was once one supercontinent containing all landmass. It's also fact that that continent split up over millions of years because of tectonic plate movement. No idea why people need to bring cataclysmic events into these kind of things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because I had heard that there was a cataclysmic event that caused it. Mind you the things I've heard differs between, polar switch, the dinosaur killing meteor, and a glancing blow from the moon. Especially if the tectonic plate wasn't that stable to began with. I mean something had to happen to cause it to break up, and honestly a breakup like that would qualify as a cataclysm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It took millions of years for earth to become what it is today. The process that caused the continent to break up is still going on today, you just don't realise it because it's happening so slowly. There's really nothing cataclysmic about it.

AMuppetMatt
06-05-2010, 04:48 AM
It's called continental drift and it's basic, basic Science. We learnt about it in year 10 (I actualy learnt it when I was 6), there's nothing cataclysmic about it. The continents are drifting apart at (something like) 1-2 cm per year.

If you aren't aware of this then you're about 50 years behind this particular area of science.

Konrad_Kurze
06-05-2010, 10:02 AM
Yes but Subject Sixteen has already told us everything we've been taught is a lie, so the 'continental drift' theory could be a lie as well and it could infact have been caused by a cataclysmic event. Just a theory, could be wrong but it's something to think about nevertheless.

O6EvolutionIXMR
06-05-2010, 10:38 AM
Continental drift happened over the past couple billion years at a very slow rate. Nothing drastic.
Just to give a good idea. Back in July of last year, a powerful earthquake off the coast of New Zealand moved it closer to Australia by 30cm(12in). Not a HUGE distance but think about all the earthquake we have every year and that how little we monitor continental shift after they happen. Especially before we had GPS technology to do this.

VRTX97
06-08-2010, 08:07 PM
As for the Atlantis theory, quite interesting and well thought out, but I don't think that is what's going on. As others have said the island he takes the Apple to is Cyprus. The -hidden well- is given a pause and emphasise to how well the temple is hidden. Nothing more. Not to mention even Altair states "the truth does not lie between the lines..."

that is from page 2... Yes he says so because its BENEATH the linesl, literally, because only the ones who can use eagle vision can see it.

ZnorfRat
06-09-2010, 09:38 PM
This is a very good theory, it is quite possible.

O6EvolutionIXMR
06-10-2010, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by ZnorfRat:
This is a very good theory, it is quite possible.

Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

thatguy611
06-13-2010, 10:54 AM
see how altair and ezio aren't affected by the pieces of eden. neither were adam and eve, according to the video. ezio, altair, and desmond are all decendents of adam and eve. thats why the templars want desmond so bad. scholars believe that the garden of eden was on the western side of cyprus, which is no longer around. on older maps there was a piece of land connecting cyprus to the middle east. thats where atlantis is believed to be. maybe the garden of eden was on atlantas where ac3 will be

kre4tix
08-13-2010, 05:41 AM
hmmmmmmmmmmmm.............

I think atlantis disappeared during the time when God set the Great f;ppd??
I THINK!!!!!!

FilipinoNinja67
08-13-2010, 05:56 AM
how would atlantis survive floods and earthquakes? The vaults were the only things still standing after the first god punishment but i like the theory. It would be so awesome to be in that city.

PhiIs1618033
08-13-2010, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by thatguy611:
see how altair and ezio aren't affected by the pieces of eden.
I'll have to contradict you on that. I remember clearly that Altair was trapped by Al Mualim a few times with the PoE. Ezio got influenced by the papal staff after he had lost the Apple.

Also, now we're talking about it, what about Yonaguni (http://www.morien-institute.org/yonaguni.html) (a possible Atlantis site)? This seems backed up by using Eagle Vision in AC, which reveals the following clue: follow link (http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_188017.jpg) (Picture thanks to the CVG Blog Assassin's Creed Ending Explained).
Perhaps it could be just the location of a vault.

There are more interesting clues in the ending of AC, like the wall (http://cdn.medialib.computerandvideogames.com/screens/screenshot_188014.jpg). See the text Quetzalcoatl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl)'s hunger lies/has (can't read properly) the answers. If you take a look at the Wiki page, Quetzalcoatl was an ancient Aztec (the Mayans had an equivalent) god, which ties in nicely with the 2012-theories the franchise seems to be based on.
There's also a lot of Chinese on the walls. My knowledge of Kanji is very limited, so I won't be able to translate that for you. It also looks like theres some Korean in the middle (above the two rings).
Then there's the Zn-1 = Zn*C, which is a recursive formula that could be rewritten to Zn = Zn-1/C. A direct formula would be Zn = Z0/C^n where Z0 is the basis. The limit of this thing as n->infinity approaches 0. Maybe I'm looking into it too much, but has this something to do with duality/singularity?
I ought to fire up AC to look properly at the wall and the other clues.

P.S. Sorry for hijacking your thread like this, I got a little side-tracked after Yonaguni. :P I like it a lot, though. The Altair 'sceenshot' is pretty good, but the Ezio one is clearly fake.

SteelCity999
08-13-2010, 08:23 AM
There is alot of evidence in multiple spots that many areas of the world that were inhabited are now underwater and alot that were underwater are not now. Two examples that come quickly to mind, are the discovery of sealife fossils in the upper elevations of the US Rocky Mountains and another is a site discovered by Robert Ballard in the Black Sea quite a ways from shore. There is geologocial evidence that either Scotland, or Ireland, was once conected to the North American plate.
So those that came before, if they are the ones responsible for the codex map, would have to have been around when the earth was in its current form. There is one guy which claims that Atlantis was in the Carribean and uses Aristotles description of it being past the Strait of Gibralter as evidence - not that he has much credible evidence. But the fact of the matter is that it could be anywhere if the civilization came to be during an Ice Age where sea levels were low and thus vanished when the ice and glaciers melted.
Somehow, someway they will tie AC into Atlantis but I think it will be via some far out alien astronaut theory. There are those that believe mining camps were set up in South America by aliens to mine Earth's resources(the band of holes) and this would be a great reason why slaves were needed. Enter the PoE.
It will be interesting...let's hope it is not too crazy of endings.

itsamea-mario
08-13-2010, 08:36 AM
im pretty sure the map was made by altair, he new what the earth looked like by looking into the apple.

Razrback16
08-13-2010, 10:15 AM
Just wanted to say I enjoyed your video -- and want to iterate again that this could be one of the most epic games ever. Without derailing this thread into discussion on DRM, I'll say that without that facet built into the game, Assassin's Creed's series so far has been one of my favorites in over two decades of gaming. They have enough material to make games well beyond AC3 without it getting boring. I find the entire story incredibly interesting -- all the puzzles throughout AC2, and places you can go -- just a mind-blowingly epic game series. I hope it continues.

UBOSOFT-Gamer
08-13-2010, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Razrback16:
Just wanted to say I enjoyed your video -- and want to iterate again that this could be one of the most epic games ever. Without derailing this thread into discussion on DRM, I'll say that without that facet built into the game, Assassin's Creed's series so far has been one of my favorites in over two decades of gaming. They have enough material to make games well beyond AC3 without it getting boring. I find the entire story incredibly interesting -- all the puzzles throughout AC2, and places you can go -- just a mind-blowingly epic game series. I hope it continues.

yepp; AC is fantastic! 1 and 2!

EzioAssassin51
08-13-2010, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by Razrback16:
Just wanted to say I enjoyed your video -- and want to iterate again that this could be one of the most epic games ever. Without derailing this thread into discussion on DRM, I'll say that without that facet built into the game, Assassin's Creed's series so far has been one of my favorites in over two decades of gaming. They have enough material to make games well beyond AC3 without it getting boring. I find the entire story incredibly interesting -- all the puzzles throughout AC2, and places you can go -- just a mind-blowingly epic game series. I hope it continues.

Please post this here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/7561008428/p/1)

SlimeDynamiteD
08-14-2010, 03:38 AM
Wow, that made like so much sense.
Keep up the thinking! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

O6EvolutionIXMR
08-23-2010, 07:02 PM
I appreciate the comments folks!

Xenoxin
11-20-2010, 01:10 PM
I just read your theory and I find it very interesting. Then it jumped to my mind that the World Map could possibly also show Cyprus being connected to main land. Ezio said there were countries that didn't exist, then somebody answered (don't know who anymore) that they need to be discovered or re-discovered. I just checked and I'm not sure, maybe I want to see it, but it looks an awful lot that Cyprus is connected to the main land.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2678/naamloosxg.png

AubreyWilborn
11-20-2010, 09:09 PM
Interesting thread. I've never heard of Cyprus being considered as a location for Atlantis, though.

O6EvolutionIXMR
11-21-2010, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Xenoxin:
I just read your theory and I find it very interesting. Then it jumped to my mind that the World Map could possibly also show Cyprus being connected to main land. Ezio said there were countries that didn't exist, then somebody answered (don't know who anymore) that they need to be discovered or re-discovered. I just checked and I'm not sure, maybe I want to see it, but it looks an awful lot that Cyprus is connected to the main land.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2678/naamloosxg.png

Take a look at the link I posted on the 2nd page here.
http://www.ubthenews.com/summaries/garden_of_eden.htm

coragus
11-23-2010, 03:11 AM
yes i see your point i have thought about this before, but have you reaslized that nothing is origional? all things have come from something deep in the mind, its allways bassed on it truth, but twisted, and lately many songs and movies have contexy of this. I have also seen that everything is linked, atlantis coming to earth then it blew up(i think it was a atomic bomb... thats why we cant find a thing) then many escaped and started ruling and teaching the people because the saw the true meaning of life, which they created, like the mayan gods and egyptian pharos which had slightly elongated skull, the people started worshipping them as gods, tried to elongate their childrens skulls to sacrifice, and we start adding more random stuff till it became a religion, as they died we got monotheism. so was plato a prophet?? did he see the past like abraham and moses. im mormon and i see even more links to this, Lehi got the liahona which was made of this same gold copper alloy and its spherical, it guided them to the promised land (america). then joseph smith thousands of years later got it and various other golden artifacts witha large gold plate, humanity back then could misenterprit anything it could have been a computer after all, but the other golden goodies helped him translate the golden plates. maybe all religions have some truth , but some lies aswell.
and i also thought that what if "those who came before" are from another planet, lets say a particular group of stars called alpha centuri, where we reseave revalation and dreams of past and future through, those things they designed in our brain (for the peaces of eden to work).
now you might think im over doing this but i thought about similar things before ASC. and the gove wants to put RFI chips in our hand to controll us, sounds familiar. these "ones who came before" could also be what hebrews called the nephilim, or as other say the aryan, who have blond hair and are tall. many civilizations trying to recreate their power, like the romans then the nazis, and now the new world order, also controled by alot of free masons (the templars are a masonic movement).
now this is a long pheory but its what i got so far.
thanks for reading this far. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jcoyle_hull
11-24-2010, 01:09 PM
I would of actually said that the -hidden well- is more literally a HIDDEN "WELL" , which if u think about the nova scotia island where everytime they try digging it fills up with water? a well ? me and my father have always loved the nova scotia theories.
The templars in there time were very powerful and wealthy and if they did bury a treasure there what could it have been ?
I also was under the impression that there was more then one peice of eden( the staff that rodrigo borgia had?) so does that mean the templars could of hided one there? or even the assassins?
there also is alot of other temples they have to find why? what is in these temples?

i think there is MANY MANY questions the assassins creed series needs to answer.

jcoyle_hull
11-24-2010, 01:10 PM
By the way the pics are amazing just going to watch the video now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

coragus
11-25-2010, 01:10 AM
well in the bible it talks of the last days the places of safety are holy place... coincedence (another one) these safe places could be the tempes which humanity make "holy", the staff i think may be the staff that a prophet used to heal people with, those who did not gaze upon it died from poison, i cant remember the story i think there was a snake on the staff or was it sanke poison that was killing people though, but i have a feeling there is actually something odd going on... the templars were banished from the crusaders, they knew something something very important, and i bet they didnt only go to jeruselem i think they had secret missions all over the mid-east and could have even invade mecca but i dont know much about the crusades, but mecca is also hidding something of the gods and i dont think its a stupid rock.

O6EvolutionIXMR
05-11-2011, 09:48 PM
Well, I must say that my little theory on Atlantis being worked into the AC story as the "First Civilization" is becoming more of a possibility as more information is released on upcoming additions to the series.

Creative Director mentioning the "First Civilization" in a video interview:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/...eative-director.aspx (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/05/11/ac-revelations-meet-the-creative-director.aspx)
(fast foward 1st clip to 3:28 and 00:48 on the 2nd clip)

Since I've made the original post right after ACII, I can't help but notice all the similarities between everything involving the AC series & theories that are already out there for quite a bit of time. Templars, New World Order, Advanced Lost Civilization, Atlantis, etc.
Ex. http://www.deepertruth.com/
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e8cff663793b.gif
(^Awesome book btw^)

http://humanrestore.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/THE-LEGEND-OF-ATLANTIS-Part-II-Secret-Brotherhood.jpg

Just some food for thought. But it'd be really funny if in the end, this turns out to be right. When I first came up with this, I searched these forums, google, youtube etc and I couldn't find anyone that agreed or anything similar to what I had in mind(being in the game that is). Now, when I search the same way, I find dozens of pages...some even linking to my video, questioning whether or not it can be in the game's setting. Only time will tell I guess.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

phil.llllll
05-12-2011, 10:14 AM
An incredibly advanced civilization that was wiped out in antiquity? It's obviously based on the whole Atlantis myth...

Whether that name will actually come up anywhere in the series is another story.

TwentyGlyphs
05-12-2011, 11:44 AM
Yeah, it seems like the First Civilization is based on the Atlantis myth in some shape, except I don't think they lived in just one city, but all over the world. It's interesting that all of the First Civilization stuff we've seen other than Eden so far has been underground — the vaults and what not. Coupled with Juno saying that they locked away what they could to keep it safe from man, it seems like they intentionally hid all of their stuff underground. Even the Staff of Eden gets pulled back underground after Ezio leaves the Vault.

And if Eden really existed as seen in The Truth, where is it now? Was it completely destroyed? That's likely if it was built before the solar catastrophe, but it seems like it was built after because Juno said after the world became undone they tried to pass it through the blood. Eden could have been pulled underground by some great technology as well. This intentionally hiding all of their stuff underground could have been what happened to the city of Atlantis as well, and given rise to the story of it sinking.

O6EvolutionIXMR
05-12-2011, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by coryplayspiano:
Yeah, it seems like the First Civilization is based on the Atlantis myth in some shape, except I don't think they lived in just one city, but all over the world.

Many people believe that descendants from Atlantis spread throughout the world after it's destruction.


http://www.prlog.org/11466147-greatpyramids-wwwavailable-travelcom.jpg


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1077/1335240595_f1c5ff487b.jpg
http://mysteriesofantiquity.com/web_images/85066-main_full.jpg

mantledarcanum
05-12-2011, 03:10 PM
Evo: I love this video so much. It really would make a ton of sense.. and be pretty cool to see it fleshed out in AC3.

Though, for the sake of discussion, what do you think of the recent possible discovery?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42...elieved-found-spain/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42072469/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/lost-city-atlantis-believed-found-spain/)

phil.llllll
05-12-2011, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by aquarianfae:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42...elieved-found-spain/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42072469/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/lost-city-atlantis-believed-found-spain/)

Atlantis is found every other year somewhere...

O6EvolutionIXMR
05-12-2011, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by aquarianfae:
Evo: I love this video so much. It really would make a ton of sense.. and be pretty cool to see it fleshed out in AC3.

Though, for the sake of discussion, what do you think of the recent possible discovery?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42...elieved-found-spain/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42072469/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/lost-city-atlantis-believed-found-spain/)

Thank you for watching and responding.
I am already familiar with the story that you linked. They didn't find any evidence that could substantially back up Mr. Freund's theory. It was basically a plug for a special that would be showing on National Geographic like they mention in the article. If you check all the articles about this prior to the show being aired, they were all copied press releases. Basically a commercial advertisement for NatGeo.
I still managed to DVR it and watch it. It was a disappointment really. Almost as much as Robert Sarmast's expedition a couple years ago that promised evidence this and that, but in the end just turned out to be a two hour-long boat ride off the shore of Cyprus.

There are many locations throughout the world where people think it was located. Everywhere from the Bahamas to Japan & countless others within the mediterranean.

SAVMATIC
05-12-2011, 09:08 PM
Remnants of Atlantis, Lemuria, Dwarka and more have been found. Whether one specific site is Atlantis or not is kind of unimportant. They have found so many ancient underwater cities, underground cities, and other ancient structures that have totally destroyed the old mainstream view of human history on this planet.

DualFace
05-12-2011, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by SAVMATIC:
Whether one specific site is Atlantis or not is kind of unimportant. They have found so many ancient underwater cities, underground cities, and other ancient structures that have totally destroyed the old mainstream view of human history on this planet.

<span class="ev_code_purple">That's just another thing we'll never be able to come to grips with. This planet could have
been destroyed 1000 times over before, we'd never know it. Life starts over.

That is what I think makes TOWCB, and their possible story, so interesting. That they've
managed to lock away knowledge, safely, that has managed to be found again, right before
another possible eradication, and it's a total MINDBLOW---videogame or not.

I love it.</span>

RzaRecta357
05-12-2011, 11:56 PM
There's one big hole in this theory and I've only read the first page so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned.

One theirs, now ours.

They're just talking about Cyprus. He takes the Apple and hides it there. So that's obviously where he means. He even takes it from the templars in that PSP game.

zantox9
06-26-2011, 08:13 AM
I just noticed something interesting in the Assassins Creed Revelations E3 2011 Trailer.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed it..
In the beginning of the soundtrack he sings:
"Deep in the ocean, dead and cast away
Where innocence is burned in flames"

Could that be a reference to Atlantis?

EvolutionIXMR
06-26-2011, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by zantox9:
I just noticed something interesting in the Assassins Creed Revelations E3 2011 Trailer.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed it..
In the beginning of the soundtrack he sings:
"Deep in the ocean, dead and cast away
Where innocence is burned in flames"

Could that be a reference to Atlantis?

Good catch. I just rewatched the trailer(for the billionth time) thinking how could I have missed that, but I couldn't understand that part at all. Sounds like he's slurring the lyrics. Is that part in a different language or something?(No offense if it is)

Calvarok
06-26-2011, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zantox9:
I just noticed something interesting in the Assassins Creed Revelations E3 2011 Trailer.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed it..
In the beginning of the soundtrack he sings:
"Deep in the ocean, dead and cast away
Where innocence is burned in flames"

Could that be a reference to Atlantis?

Good catch. I just rewatched the trailer(for the billionth time) thinking how could I have missed that, but I couldn't understand that part at all. Sounds like he's slurring the lyrics. Is that part in a different language or something?(No offense if it is) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think the singer speaks english as his first language. So yeah, he slurs his words slightly, and it's also part of his style of singing.

But he's not related to Ubisoft in any way, they just asked to use his pre-existing song. I highly doubt any one lyric is actually a hint towards stuff.

jcoyle_hull
06-27-2011, 10:09 AM
In Response to


- I don't think the singer speaks english as his first language. So yeah, he slurs his words slightly, and it's also part of his style of singing.

But he's not related to Ubisoft in any way, they just asked to use his pre-existing song. I highly doubt any one lyric is actually a hint towards stuff.



Everything Ubisoft do in Assassins Creed has a reason so i would suspect the song is a reference to rather something in the game or something to come in future games as there has been alot of references to Atlantis in the series already.

EvolutionIXMR
06-27-2011, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Coyleyy:
I highly doubt any one lyric is actually a hint towards stuff....

I have to disagree. I think, not only the lyrics, but also the music video for the song(check my other thread) have strong hints toward AC's plot.

Am I just looking to deeply into this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

CholericCrest
09-25-2011, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by O6EvolutionIXMR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tony6593:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by O6EvolutionIXMR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kreepybeest:
cool video. you must have done a lot of research on this. it sounds pretty possible to me but i guess we are just going to have to wait to find out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Actually, I've always had an interest in history. And although games like these are fictional, their plots usually mimic actual events & stories that entice the mind.
Example: Many might not realize it but there actually WAS an order of Assassins called the Hashshashin. There was a real Al Mualim which who real name was Rashid ad Din Sinan. And there was real Masayaf which was called Alamut. It is very interesting when you actually read up on all the history(if your into it). You can read all about it in this book: The Templars and the Assassins (http://www.amazon.com/Templars-Assassins-Militia-Heaven/dp/089281859X) (Which is a great book btw, just finished it last week) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alamut and masyaf are 2 different places aren't they. Alamut was like the HQ and masyaf was just an assassin stronghold </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, your right. I got the names screwed up. It was Masyaf.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Masyaf_-_Gesamtansicht.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh hey they have Dish TV cool they can watch the assassin games monday night.

CholericCrest
09-25-2011, 01:33 PM
Well it's a given they're going to explore the world and go to these great places once so forgotten and held as wonders and myths in the real world. However the game is planned as a trilogy so unless they ram 12 new ancestors that visited each "Holy Place" and desmond had the ability to teleport then yes it would be possible. Though i hope they pull a Halo/Bungie id like to see these games redone and made into about 2-4 more games after the 3rd one not including the sub games of course. AC:V

EvolutionIXMR
10-01-2011, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by BLUEdevil96:
However the game is planned as a trilogy

Yes, they did originally plan that. But there already has been a trilogy of games with another to be released in just over a month.

LightRey
10-01-2011, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BLUEdevil96:
However the game is planned as a trilogy

Yes, they did originally plan that. But there already has been a trilogy of games with another to be released in just over a month. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, AC1-AC2-AC3 is the planned trilogy, ACII-ACB-ACR is part of another trilogy within that trilogy.

RzaRecta357
10-01-2011, 09:40 AM
Exactly. Like Grand theft auto. There are 4 games. Tons of spin offs. GTA3 had it's own mini trilogy, all tied together with characters. IV did the same with download content.

Think of AC the same way.


Also, Woodkid didn't pen that song with Assassin's Creed in mind guys. They chose the song because of the lyrics and beat. They obviously paid attention to the lyrics and thought they fit.

rileypoole1234
10-01-2011, 11:05 AM
I remember looking at this thread a long time ago. It's brilliant! Glad to see you still think the same, because you have me convinced. I love History as well mate, I'm planning on going to a University for archaeology. I never thought that was supposed to be Kilimanjaro in The Truth either. It just didn't make sense to me. You also are right about how it would have looked very different than today. I'm glad you said that. I think it would make sense for Eden to be on an island. Maybe they knew it would be submerged or destroyed and nobody would ever find it. This is one of the most solid theories i've heard for Assassin's Creed.

Animuses
10-01-2011, 11:08 AM
I remember watching the video a month or two after you uploaded it. My mind was blown and you definitely had me convinced. This is by far my favorite AC theory.

dave93vert
10-01-2011, 02:25 PM
subject 16 tells desmond that its "too late to save them, eve.." well he is refering to saving eve/adam/humans from the earlier timeline. Eve doesnt have apple in the truth video until she says "adam, i have it". so desmond has to make the apple apear in her hand somehow, & probly thru time teleportation, because remember the email in AC talking about the project regarding time travel artifacts & USS Eldridge. Eve, in her time, knows she has to wait on the rooftop for the apple to manifest becuz a "good god" told her the plan & how desmond was going to save them in his future time. Subject 16 also says "the sun, too weak, must replenish energy"... and its not about him (16) or humans or a kid son. its evidently obvious that its refering to what eve's plan is with the apple whch is to make the mountain volcano explode to create ash clouds to block the sun 2 kill the "bad gods" because no sunlight makes them weak/die.

LightRey
10-01-2011, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by dave93vert:
subject 16 tells desmond that its "too late to save them, eve.." well he is refering to saving eve/adam/humans from the earlier timeline. Eve doesnt have apple in the truth video until she says "adam, i have it". so desmond has to make the apple apear in her hand somehow, & probly thru time teleportation, because remember the email in AC talking about the project regarding time travel artifacts & USS Eldridge. Eve, in her time, knows she has to wait on the rooftop for the apple to manifest becuz a "good god" told her the plan & how desmond was going to save them in his future time. Subject 16 also says "the sun, too weak, must replenish energy"... and its not about him (16) or humans or a kid son. its evidently obvious that its refering to what eve's plan is with the apple whch is to make the mountain volcano explode to create ash clouds to block the sun 2 kill the "bad gods" because no sunlight makes them weak/die.
You should stop reposting your theory in different threads, especially since you've already made a separate thread for it.

EvolutionIXMR
10-02-2011, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by rileypoole1234:
I remember looking at this thread a long time ago. It's brilliant! Glad to see you still think the same, because you have me convinced. I love History as well mate, I'm planning on going to a University for archaeology. I never thought that was supposed to be Kilimanjaro in The Truth either. It just didn't make sense to me. You also are right about how it would have looked very different than today. I'm glad you said that. I think it would make sense for Eden to be on an island. Maybe they knew it would be submerged or destroyed and nobody would ever find it. This is one of the most solid theories i've heard for Assassin's Creed.


Originally posted by Animuses:
I remember watching the video a month or two after you uploaded it. My mind was blown and you definitely had me convinced. This is by far my favorite AC theory.

Thanks guys. I appreciate it.
My stance on it is still the same as it was before. Since the video was made, Brotherhood was released and nothing in that game has caused me to reconsider or change any of my views about it. If anything, AC:B has strengthened them.

Serrachio
10-02-2011, 03:42 PM
Here is something that might be interesting too, if it hasn't been mentioned before:


Juno: In the beginning, we set our truths to parchment. To stone. To the memory of men. These proved impermanent things. Cleansed by fire. Cleansed by famine. Cleansed by flood. All the world is innocent once more. Innocent and ignorant.

LightRey
10-02-2011, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by Serrachio:
Here is something that might be interesting too, if it hasn't been mentioned before:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Juno: In the beginning, we set our truths to parchment. To stone. To the memory of men. These proved impermanent things. Cleansed by fire. Cleansed by famine. Cleansed by flood. All the world is innocent once more. Innocent and ignorant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think it's been discussed (recently). It's very likely referring to the flood that's in many religions, so I suspect it was some kind of important event after the sun tried to turn the earth into a grilled meatball. From the stories it could quite well have been triggered by TWCB, possibly to end the influence of the TWCB-human hybrids, just like in the bible with Angel-human hybrids.

jcoyle_hull
10-02-2011, 03:58 PM
Could tghe flood of been the flood that covered Atlantis, as Atlantis could be what they mean by "To stone." and it was cleansed by the flood. Probably wrong but any theory is worth talking about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LightRey
10-02-2011, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Coyleyy:
Could tghe flood of been the flood that covered Atlantis, as Atlantis could be what they mean by "To stone." and it was cleansed by the flood. Probably wrong but any theory is worth talking about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Well, the fact that the Atlanteans were apparently technologically much more advanced than the rest of the world could indicate that they were TWCB-human hybrids, which would be a connection to my theory from before, so it's not an unlikely possibility (relatively speaking of course).

Serrachio
10-02-2011, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serrachio:
Here is something that might be interesting too, if it hasn't been mentioned before:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Juno: In the beginning, we set our truths to parchment. To stone. To the memory of men. These proved impermanent things. Cleansed by fire. Cleansed by famine. Cleansed by flood. All the world is innocent once more. Innocent and ignorant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think it's been discussed (recently). It's very likely referring to the flood that's in many religions, so I suspect it was some kind of important event after the sun tried to turn the earth into a grilled meatball. From the stories it could quite well have been triggered by TWCB, possibly to end the influence of the TWCB-human hybrids, just like in the bible with Angel-human hybrids. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe Atlantis and the other mentioned civilisations weren't fortunate enough to survive the flood?

These events could be two in the same.

LightRey
10-02-2011, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by Serrachio:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serrachio:
Here is something that might be interesting too, if it hasn't been mentioned before:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Juno: In the beginning, we set our truths to parchment. To stone. To the memory of men. These proved impermanent things. Cleansed by fire. Cleansed by famine. Cleansed by flood. All the world is innocent once more. Innocent and ignorant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think it's been discussed (recently). It's very likely referring to the flood that's in many religions, so I suspect it was some kind of important event after the sun tried to turn the earth into a grilled meatball. From the stories it could quite well have been triggered by TWCB, possibly to end the influence of the TWCB-human hybrids, just like in the bible with Angel-human hybrids. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe Atlantis and the other mentioned civilisations weren't fortunate enough to survive the flood?

These events could be two in the same. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, that's what I was thinking. It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

Jexx21
10-02-2011, 06:30 PM
Eden and Atlantis?

I wonder if these were two TWCB nations/cities?

I haven't read the OP and the topic in a while, I think I'll do that now.

EvolutionIXMR
10-05-2011, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serrachio:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serrachio:
Here is something that might be interesting too, if it hasn't been mentioned before:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Juno: In the beginning, we set our truths to parchment. To stone. To the memory of men. These proved impermanent things. Cleansed by fire. Cleansed by famine. Cleansed by flood. All the world is innocent once more. Innocent and ignorant. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think it's been discussed (recently). It's very likely referring to the flood that's in many religions, so I suspect it was some kind of important event after the sun tried to turn the earth into a grilled meatball. From the stories it could quite well have been triggered by TWCB, possibly to end the influence of the TWCB-human hybrids, just like in the bible with Angel-human hybrids. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe Atlantis and the other mentioned civilisations weren't fortunate enough to survive the flood?

These events could be two in the same. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, that's what I was thinking. It certainly wouldn't surprise me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, it has been theorized for many decades that survivors who fled Atlantis during it's destruction, spread out looking for refuge throughout the Altantic. Eventually they colonized and spread certain traditions and architectural knowledge that can be seen 'til this day. Unfortunately, their story was lost in time, but later hinted by the Egyptians to what we know today.

LightRey
10-05-2011, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
Well, it has been theorized for many decades that survivors who fled Atlantis during it's destruction, spread out looking for refuge throughout the Altantic. Eventually they colonized and spread certain traditions and architectural knowledge that can be seen 'til this day. Unfortunately, their story was lost in time, but later hinted by the Egyptians to what we know today.
Well now let's not over think it. The only account of Atlantis that gets even close to the time of its existence (assuming said account was correct about that part) is Plato's account. The statements in all other accounts either come completely out of the blue or are based on Plato's story.

EvolutionIXMR
10-05-2011, 04:08 PM
And that's why I said "theorized".
But there are just way too many unexplained mysteries in our world that seem to have a somewhat-connection to one another.
As my favorite author G. Hancock says, that humanity is a "species with amnesia" which has forgotten the greatest episode in its history, the destruction and near-complete effacement of an antediluvian civilization whose tiny, scattered remnants form the fingerprints of the gods."

LightRey
10-05-2011, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
And that's why I said "theorized".
But there are just way too many unexplained mysteries in our world that seem to have a somewhat-connection to one another.
As my favorite author G. Hancock says, that humanity is a "species with amnesia" which has forgotten the greatest episode in its history, the destruction and near-complete effacement of an antediluvian civilization whose tiny, scattered remnants form the fingerprints of the gods."
assuming such a civilization actually ever existed.

EvolutionIXMR
10-05-2011, 04:20 PM
People "assumed" the city of Troy was a myth http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LightRey
10-05-2011, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
People "assumed" the city of Troy was a myth http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
The city of Troy had a few more accounts to back it up and besides that, the city itself might be real, but the war from the myth certainly wasn't waged in the way described by the myth, even if you exclude the stuff about the gods.

EvolutionIXMR
10-05-2011, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
People "assumed" the city of Troy was a myth http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
The city of Troy had a few more accounts to back it up and besides that, the city itself might be real, but the war from the myth certainly wasn't waged in the way described by the myth, even if you exclude the stuff about the gods. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Until excavations in the mid-19th century, the CITY of Troy was regarded as a myth. I never mentioned anything about the war, the horse, etc. I'm talking about the city.
There have been many discoveries of objects/locations in the past that have been once-thought to be myth/legend.
I think you my friend are forgetting the Assassin's motto http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LightRey
10-06-2011, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
People "assumed" the city of Troy was a myth http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
The city of Troy had a few more accounts to back it up and besides that, the city itself might be real, but the war from the myth certainly wasn't waged in the way described by the myth, even if you exclude the stuff about the gods. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Until excavations in the mid-19th century, the CITY of Troy was regarded as a myth. I never mentioned anything about the war, the horse, etc. I'm talking about the city.
There have been many discoveries of objects/locations in the past that have been once-thought to be myth/legend.
I think you my friend are forgetting the Assassin's motto http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The city is part of the same myth. It's existence was in history only noted by the myths regarding the war that lead to its fall, there were no other references to Troy.

Troy probably was one of the Greek colonies that eventually turned into a city and it was actually rebuilt several times before and after the war from the myth.

You also shouldn't forget that, unlike Troy, Atlantis was supposed to have been on this gigantic continent in the Atlantic, not to mention that there's only one person from ancient Greece (or anywhere else at the time for that matter) that ever referred to the place, which had supposedly been swallowed by the ocean hundreds of years before. Seriously, Troy was a myth that could have been, and apparently was, based on reality, but the myth about Atlantis is so far-fetched and so little referenced, not to mention the fact that nobody ever found an 8th continent at the bottom of the Atlantic ocean, that its existence is far less likely than the existence of Troy ever was.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there never was anything like Atlantis. However, if there was, probably over 99% of the original myth is wrong, let alone what's been added to it by others over the centuries.

O6EvolutionIXMR
10-08-2011, 07:38 PM
I definitely think there was an advanced civilization out there that has been lost/forgotten about. Like I said. There are way to many mysteries out there that we cannot explain at the moment. Signs of advanced knowledge in masonry & architecture that we, in modern state, cannot produce like thos in Cusco.

http://fortunadrago.xoom.it/main/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/pietre_cusco.jpg

LightRey
10-09-2011, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by O6EvolutionIXMR:
I definitely think there was an advanced civilization out there that has been lost/forgotten about. Like I said. There are way to many mysteries out there that we cannot explain at the moment. Signs of advanced knowledge in masonry & architecture that we, in modern state, cannot produce like thos in Cusco.

http://fortunadrago.xoom.it/main/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/pietre_cusco.jpg
You do realize that by "advanced technology" they mean advanced for the time period, right? It's not like they had flying cars or something.

EvolutionIXMR
10-21-2011, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by O6EvolutionIXMR:
I definitely think there was an advanced civilization out there that has been lost/forgotten about. Like I said. There are way to many mysteries out there that we cannot explain at the moment. Signs of advanced knowledge in masonry & architecture that we, in modern state, cannot produce like thos in Cusco.

http://fortunadrago.xoom.it/main/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/pietre_cusco.jpg
You do realize that by "advanced technology" they mean advanced for the time period, right? It's not like they had flying cars or something. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not flying cars. But there are signs that point to something far greater in our civilization's history. How else would you explain certain certain sites in this world like the Nazca Lines...which can only be seen in their entirety from hundreds of feet in the air?

LightRey
10-21-2011, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
Not flying cars. But there are signs that point to something far greater in our civilization's history. How else would you explain certain certain sites in this world like the Nazca Lines...which can only be seen in their entirety from hundreds of feet in the air?
You should read some scientific articles about those. They're actually quite easy to make as has been demonstrated. It just requires some basic knowledge of geometry which has been known to humans from all over the world for thousands of years.

EvolutionIXMR
10-22-2011, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
Not flying cars. But there are signs that point to something far greater in our civilization's history. How else would you explain certain certain sites in this world like the Nazca Lines...which can only be seen in their entirety from hundreds of feet in the air?
You should read some scientific articles about those. They're actually quite easy to make as has been demonstrated. It just requires some basic knowledge of geometry which has been known to humans from all over the world for thousands of years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you should really listen to yourself. You sound like you've been listening to one too many conservative scholars that attempt to shoot down any type of semi-radical thinking...or anything that does not conform with what orthodox academics have laid out in text books over the years.
Yes...people think that modern civilization has figured out the methods & reasons for which our ancestors have built the great structures in the past. But when these methods are examined, they clearly don't hold water and just seem like an "easy answer" to a problem.

Btw, I'm 28rs old. I've had my nose stuffed in history books since Grammar school. I'm just at a point in life where the stuff i've learned over the years is just not making sense anymore.

LightRey
10-22-2011, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
Not flying cars. But there are signs that point to something far greater in our civilization's history. How else would you explain certain certain sites in this world like the Nazca Lines...which can only be seen in their entirety from hundreds of feet in the air?
You should read some scientific articles about those. They're actually quite easy to make as has been demonstrated. It just requires some basic knowledge of geometry which has been known to humans from all over the world for thousands of years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you should really listen to yourself. You sound like you've been listening to one too many conservative scholars that attempt to shoot down any type of semi-radical thinking...or anything that does not conform with what orthodox academics have laid out in text books over the years.
Yes...people think that modern civilization has figured out the methods & reasons for which our ancestors have built the great structures in the past. But when these methods are examined, they clearly don't hold water and just seem like an "easy answer".

Btw, I'm 28rs old. I've had my nose stuffed in history books since Grammar school. I'm just at a point in life where the stuff i've learned over the years is just not making sense anymore. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I really don't care how old you are my friend. History books aren't scientific articles and they can be written by anyone. They're not a scientifically reliable source of information. At this point there is really no good reason to assume that there has been any civilization in the past that even came close to the kind of technological advancement we have. Yes, we know that it's happened countless times throughout history that knowledge was lost. Things like concrete and many mathematical concepts were lost for centuries. However, there are absolutely no clues that offer conclusive evidence that there was ancient technology that came even close to ours.

Agentbarto
10-22-2011, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EvolutionIXMR:
Not flying cars. But there are signs that point to something far greater in our civilization's history. How else would you explain certain certain sites in this world like the Nazca Lines...which can only be seen in their entirety from hundreds of feet in the air?
You should read some scientific articles about those. They're actually quite easy to make as has been demonstrated. It just requires some basic knowledge of geometry which has been known to humans from all over the world for thousands of years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you should really listen to yourself. You sound like you've been listening to one too many conservative scholars that attempt to shoot down any type of semi-radical thinking...or anything that does not conform with what orthodox academics have laid out in text books over the years.
Yes...people think that modern civilization has figured out the methods & reasons for which our ancestors have built the great structures in the past. But when these methods are examined, they clearly don't hold water and just seem like an "easy answer".

Btw, I'm 28rs old. I've had my nose stuffed in history books since Grammar school. I'm just at a point in life where the stuff i've learned over the years is just not making sense anymore. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I really don't care how old you are my friend. History books aren't scientific articles and they can be written by anyone. They're not a scientifically reliable source of information. At this point there is really no good reason to assume that there has been any civilization in the past that even came close to the kind of technological advancement we have. Yes, we know that it's happened countless times throughout history that knowledge was lost. Things like concrete and many mathematical concepts were lost for centuries. However, there are absolutely no clues that offer conclusive evidence that there was ancient technology that came even close to ours. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gonna help out here. You seem to suggest that the history we consider to be factual, today is a product of natural selection. In which case one could argue that the articles you read have a stronger bias behind them than those promoting deviant and still scientific analysis. Fact is that the articles you have read which promote a lucid analysis still try to reign back the anomalous analysis based on the ideals of "factuality" instilled in them by equally stringent authorities in the field. So you could be just as wrong as he may be in your eyes and not even realize it.

LightRey
10-23-2011, 04:15 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Gonna help out here. You seem to suggest that the history we consider to be factual, today is a product of natural selection. In which case one could argue that the articles you read have a stronger bias behind them than those promoting deviant and still scientific analysis. Fact is that the articles you have read which promote a lucid analysis still try to reign back the anomalous analysis based on the ideals of "factuality" instilled in them by equally stringent authorities in the field. So you could be just as wrong as he may be in your eyes and not even realize it.
Not at all. What I'm stating is that the ones with the burden of evidence are the ones claiming that there were more advanced civilizations than ours some time in the past. If you want to make such a claim, you actually have to come with strong, supporting evidence, else it's no more reliable a theory than that 3 billion years ago flying superbunnies ruled the earth.

Agentbarto
10-23-2011, 01:38 PM
But again you imply that we only consider the history fed to us by textbooks as plausible because the practice of following the norm has had been so innately instilled in us lest we fear academic ostracism. Were things flipped you might find your methodology is instead alienated. Just pointing out the inadequacy of the application of Occam's Razor in any field of academia.

LightRey
10-23-2011, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
But again you imply that we only consider the history fed to us by textbooks as plausible because the practice of following the norm has had been so innately instilled in us lest we fear academic ostracism. Were things flipped you might find your methodology is instead alienated. Just pointing out the inadequacy of the application of Occam's Razor in any field of academia.
No, I claim those are the most reliable because they are the ones that, at this time, are backed up by conclusive evidence. Simply applying Occam's Razor already brings them in favor. Ergo, they are the most reliable theories.

If you want to come with a new theory, at the very least you'll have to make it so it requires as few assumptions as the ones that are accepted by science and here that clearly isn't the case at all.

It's simply the scientific method I'm following here. Science doesn't assume anything, it simply goes with what is most reliable, which is something that can change (drastically) over time.

Agentbarto
10-23-2011, 03:39 PM
So what defines conclusive? The enablement of the evidence to be integrated into a coherent theory?
Or the opinions on what is "true" promoted by that which is established in the field?

LightRey
10-23-2011, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
So what defines conclusive? The enablement of the evidence to be integrated into a coherent theory?
Or the opinions on what is "true" promoted by that which is established in the field?
Conclusive is defined by that all evidence leads to a solution that requires the least assumptions, that coincides with the theory (i.e. that that solution is the theory). If there would be an alternative explanation that would require less assumptions, then the evidence is not conclusive. You shouldn't keep focusing on merely one of the things I say all the time. I said a lot more than just the words "conclusive evidence".

Agentbarto
10-23-2011, 03:59 PM
I'm trying to bring my point across by focusing on things that relate directly to my point.

Which is that Occam's Razor can lead one to believing only that which we have observed and believing that the universe can be explained very simply. With that mentality we would never make great strides, and one runs the risk of ignoring a possible alternative that is just as compelling, simply because it doesn't fit the traditional views of simplicity in explanation.

LightRey
10-23-2011, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
I'm trying to bring my point across by focusing on things that relate directly to my point.

Which is that Occam's Razor can lead one to believing only that which we have observed and believing that the universe can be explained very simply. With that mentality we would never make great strides, and one runs the risk of ignoring a possible alternative that is just as compelling, simply because it doesn't fit the traditional views of simplicity in explanation.
What you're claiming is that essentially that science is biased. This is not the case. Science has no goal other than to find explanations. It doesn't expect, it simply makes note and bases models on that in an attempt to explain.

Science isn't about believing. Science is about explaining. Believing in something creates bias and is unscientific. One's beliefs should be kept separate from scientific study at all times. They can serve as inspiration, but nothing more.

At this time it's most probable that there was no civilization at any time in the past that came even close to our level of technological advancement as there is no evidence pointing strongly in that direction and most evidence is pointing away from it.

This is simply what science does. It's states the most probable solution(s).

Research should not be done with an expected result. That creates bias. One can base research on the results of other research, not the conclusions drawn from it. That way there is never any bias.

Agentbarto
10-23-2011, 04:26 PM
As ideal as that view is. Fact remains that scientists often have to struggle within themselves to separate their bias from the evidence presented. The Endosymbiotic Theory was a great example of this. You had Lynn Margulis making scientific claims backed by hard evidence and no one gave her the time of day until they observed the evidence for themselves. The assumption was that the biological processes of a eukaryotic cell could be attributed to singular cell. This is supported to not be the case.

History shows that what is considered simple in the past must evolve complexity with the advent of new technology to observe ever present evidence, which we had assumed to not be there previously, in order to maintain a scientific integrity.

And I understand that Biology isn't a hard science per say, but you could still apply this to hard sciences.

And what do you mean we conduct research with no end in sight? That's what a hypothesis is. You have a bias but to eliminate it at various steps, you alternate the use of inductive and deductive reasoning so that the end product is as "pure" as it can be.

LightRey
10-23-2011, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
As ideal as that view is. Fact remains that scientists often have to struggle within themselves to separate their bias from the evidence presented. The Endosymbiotic Theory was a great example of this. You had Lynn Margulis making scientific claims backed by hard evidence and no one gave her the time of day until they observed the evidence for themselves. The assumption was that the biological processes of a eukaryotic cell could be attributed to singular cell. This is supported to not be the case.

History shows that what is considered simple in the past must evolve complexity with the advent of new technology to observe ever present evidence, which we had assumed to not be there previously, in order to maintain a scientific integrity.

And I understand that Biology isn't a hard science per say, but you could still apply this to hard sciences.

And what do you mean we conduct research with no end in sight? That's what a hypothesis is. You have a bias but to eliminate it at various steps, you alternate the use of inductive and deductive reasoning so that the end product is as "pure" as it can be.
Oh of course. I would definitely agree that there is bias within the scientific community, but that does not pertain to science itself. Science itself is a system that avoids bias at all costs.

A hypothesis is a prediction based on previous results, not previous conclusions. It doesn't expect any more than to follow the results that were attained previously. Not to mention that hypotheses are by no means a requirement in scientific research, and are actually not used very often.

In the end it's all still easy to see that regardless of the bias of researchers, the scientific method itself still minimizes said bias quite drastically, requiring scientific review from an independent source, asking for verification from an independent source and demanding that all measurements be noted along with their errors.

But let's view this particular case now, shall we? Let's assume that there was an ancient civilization that had attained a level of technological advancement near our own. Now, if we follow the basic steps of how civilizations have evolved in the past, it's quite clear that getting from a point from what we think the level of iron age technology was, to our current level of technology takes a considerable amount of generations at the very least, even if it would have gone many times faster than our own. We should also be able to conclude then that the expansion rate of said civilization would have been exponential, in just a few generations at the very least (and I stretch "very") reaching a highly advanced civilization the size of let's say a metropolis. Now this is all under the assumption that for whatever reason this highly advanced civilization was incapable of expanding further in said time or unwilling to do so (which is a very big assumption). So, now we basically have a civilization such as New York city, but basically closed off from the rest of the world. Now how would one go about blowing up New York, without leaving any significant amount of conclusive evidence pointing to highly advanced technology? There's computers, the subway, skyscrapers, steel alloys, asphalt, cars, ships, concrete, plastics, etc. All of that would have to be reduced to so very little, that we could not have found any traces of them. That is nigh impossible. It would require something along the lines turning (almost) every bit of it into plasma, which can only really be done by either a gigantic meteorite or an extremely powerful atomic bomb and even then such a cataclysmic event would in itself have been a greater disaster than anything we know of having happened on earth ever. So, in short, I think that at this point it's safe to assume that there was no such civilization.

r4inm4n1991
10-23-2011, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
As ideal as that view is. Fact remains that scientists often have to struggle within themselves to separate their bias from the evidence presented. The Endosymbiotic Theory was a great example of this. You had Lynn Margulis making scientific claims backed by hard evidence and no one gave her the time of day until they observed the evidence for themselves. The assumption was that the biological processes of a eukaryotic cell could be attributed to singular cell. This is supported to not be the case.

History shows that what is considered simple in the past must evolve complexity with the advent of new technology to observe ever present evidence, which we had assumed to not be there previously, in order to maintain a scientific integrity.

And I understand that Biology isn't a hard science per say, but you could still apply this to hard sciences.

And what do you mean we conduct research with no end in sight? That's what a hypothesis is. You have a bias but to eliminate it at various steps, you alternate the use of inductive and deductive reasoning so that the end product is as "pure" as it can be.
Oh of course. I would definitely agree that there is bias within the scientific community, but that does not pertain to science itself. Science itself is a system that avoids bias at all costs.

A hypothesis is a prediction based on previous results, not previous conclusions. It doesn't expect any more than to follow the results that were attained previously. Not to mention that hypotheses are by no means a requirement in scientific research, and are actually not used very often.

In the end it's all still easy to see that regardless of the bias of researchers, the scientific method itself still minimizes said bias quite drastically, requiring scientific review from an independent source, asking for verification from an independent source and demanding that all measurements be noted along with their errors.

But let's view this particular case now, shall we? Let's assume that there was an ancient civilization that had attained a level of technological advancement near our own. Now, if we follow the basic steps of how civilizations have evolved in the past, it's quite clear that getting from a point from what we think the level of iron age technology was, to our current level of technology takes a considerable amount of generations at the very least, even if it would have gone many times faster than our own. We should also be able to conclude then that the expansion rate of said civilization would have been exponential, in just a few generations at the very least (and I stretch "very") reaching a highly advanced civilization the size of let's say a metropolis. Now this is all under the assumption that for whatever reason this highly advanced civilization was incapable of expanding further in said time or unwilling to do so (which is a very big assumption). So, now we basically have a civilization such as New York city, but basically closed off from the rest of the world. Now how would one go about blowing up New York, without leaving any significant amount of conclusive evidence pointing to highly advanced technology? There's computers, the subway, skyscrapers, steel alloys, asphalt, cars, ships, concrete, plastics, etc. All of that would have to be reduced to so very little, that we could not have found any traces of them. That is nigh impossible. It would require something along the lines turning (almost) every bit of it into plasma, which can only really be done by either a gigantic meteorite or an extremely powerful atomic bomb and even then such a cataclysmic event would in itself have been a greater disaster than anything we know of having happened on earth ever. So, in short, I think that at this point it's safe to assume that there was no such civilization. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OR the civilization that camed before us used the apple to hide their buildings and stuff in ruins. We just need to find the vaults and stab our loved one in the stomach, after that we go into a coma to reveal once and for all THE TRUTH.

CONCLUSION:
You're wrong! You've always been wrong and you always will be. Also, you're ugly and you don't have any friends!
...or you're right. :P

LightRey
10-23-2011, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by r4inm4n1991:
OR the civilization that camed before us used the apple to hide their buildings and stuff in ruins. We just need to find the vaults and stab our loved one in the stomach, after that we go into a coma to reveal once and for all THE TRUTH.

CONCLUSION:
You're wrong! You've always been wrong and you always will be. Also, you're ugly and you don't have any friends!
...or you're right. :P
Well said xD

That is something I do like about AC though. They've actually managed to come up with a well thought out scenario that is actually relatively not so unlikely.

r4inm4n1991
10-23-2011, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by r4inm4n1991:
OR the civilization that camed before us used the apple to hide their buildings and stuff in ruins. We just need to find the vaults and stab our loved one in the stomach, after that we go into a coma to reveal once and for all THE TRUTH.

CONCLUSION:
You're wrong! You've always been wrong and you always will be. Also, you're ugly and you don't have any friends!
...or you're right. :P
Well said xD

That is something I do like about AC though. They've actually managed to come up with a well thought out scenario that is actually relatively not so unlikely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes! Its a very well though story.
Like Darby said in a interview, he said that they think carefully what the characters will say or do before putting it in the game so that it doenst ruin the AC Universe. Something in those lines.

Agentbarto
10-23-2011, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
As ideal as that view is. Fact remains that scientists often have to struggle within themselves to separate their bias from the evidence presented. The Endosymbiotic Theory was a great example of this. You had Lynn Margulis making scientific claims backed by hard evidence and no one gave her the time of day until they observed the evidence for themselves. The assumption was that the biological processes of a eukaryotic cell could be attributed to singular cell. This is supported to not be the case.

History shows that what is considered simple in the past must evolve complexity with the advent of new technology to observe ever present evidence, which we had assumed to not be there previously, in order to maintain a scientific integrity.

And I understand that Biology isn't a hard science per say, but you could still apply this to hard sciences.

And what do you mean we conduct research with no end in sight? That's what a hypothesis is. You have a bias but to eliminate it at various steps, you alternate the use of inductive and deductive reasoning so that the end product is as "pure" as it can be.
Oh of course. I would definitely agree that there is bias within the scientific community, but that does not pertain to science itself. Science itself is a system that avoids bias at all costs.

A hypothesis is a prediction based on previous results, not previous conclusions. It doesn't expect any more than to follow the results that were attained previously. Not to mention that hypotheses are by no means a requirement in scientific research, and are actually not used very often.

In the end it's all still easy to see that regardless of the bias of researchers, the scientific method itself still minimizes said bias quite drastically, requiring scientific review from an independent source, asking for verification from an independent source and demanding that all measurements be noted along with their errors.

But let's view this particular case now, shall we? Let's assume that there was an ancient civilization that had attained a level of technological advancement near our own. Now, if we follow the basic steps of how civilizations have evolved in the past, it's quite clear that getting from a point from what we think the level of iron age technology was, to our current level of technology takes a considerable amount of generations at the very least, even if it would have gone many times faster than our own. We should also be able to conclude then that the expansion rate of said civilization would have been exponential, in just a few generations at the very least (and I stretch "very") reaching a highly advanced civilization the size of let's say a metropolis. Now this is all under the assumption that for whatever reason this highly advanced civilization was incapable of expanding further in said time or unwilling to do so (which is a very big assumption). So, now we basically have a civilization such as New York city, but basically closed off from the rest of the world. Now how would one go about blowing up New York, without leaving any significant amount of conclusive evidence pointing to highly advanced technology? There's computers, the subway, skyscrapers, steel alloys, asphalt, cars, ships, concrete, plastics, etc. All of that would have to be reduced to so very little, that we could not have found any traces of them. That is nigh impossible. It would require something along the lines turning (almost) every bit of it into plasma, which can only really be done by either a gigantic meteorite or an extremely powerful atomic bomb and even then such a cataclysmic event would in itself have been a greater disaster than anything we know of having happened on earth ever. So, in short, I think that at this point it's safe to assume that there was no such civilization. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry I was gone a while.

Please explain how the results of a hypothesis are different from the implications of the hypothesis? It seems to me that they are linked and you can go one of two ways.

Here's my point. Hypotheses test the relation ship between an observation and a new question. The question asked is based on either previous information learned (conclusions made by others) or a scientific challenge to the status quo. Because of that, new scientific tests are directly linked to the scientific community, as are the results learned by students in school. At least up until a certain point where teachers assume you know enough that the complexity of a theory won't confuse you.

So there's the thing. If you don't know something exists, does that make its potential existence any less real? Take for example China. It's press is heavily controlled by the government; so much so that they may have no clue as to the events that transpire across the globe. Does this lack of support in the minds of the Chinese people posit the nonexistence of an event acknowledged by the rest of the world?

Another example, I'll assume that you'd agree that our country operates on levels secrecy that the public may never know about until far later. Take for example the operation to hunt down Osama recently. Had it failed or succeeded, the reality of the situation in the public consciousness would depend entirely upon the admission of the government to such an act. There may be rumors suggesting it's existence but it would be largely considered a conspiracy theory due to a lack of tangible evidence. So I ask you this, who holds the evidence? And would the classified status of the information hint at anything but ulterior motives behind the scenes of the mainstream community withholding said data?

My goal isn't to prove anything, because as I have implied, very little can be proven absolute beyond the shadow of a doubt, but it's to promote true skepticism. it's not enough to be skeptic about anomalies, one must be skeptic about their own inclination and what has been the status quo simply because of the ability of said information to be so traditionally readily digested.

As far as the logistics of eliminating an advanced civilization. I propose this; We constantly lose land masses due to geographic subduction. As a result many fossils have been lost. Now apply this possibility to the current issue, maybe it sank??? Flood the world, rid the vestigial human colonies of any access (to a point) to their without changing the mechanics of the land masses. I'm NOT saying I believe it, but it's a thought.

LightRey
10-24-2011, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Sorry I was gone a while.

Please explain how the results of a hypothesis are different from the implications of the hypothesis? It seems to me that they are linked and you can go one of two ways.

Here's my point. Hypotheses test the relation ship between an observation and a new question. The question asked is based on either previous information learned (conclusions made by others) or a scientific challenge to the status quo. Because of that, new scientific tests are directly linked to the scientific community, as are the results learned by students in school. At least up until a certain point where teachers assume you know enough that the complexity of a theory won't confuse you.

So there's the thing. If you don't know something exists, does that make its potential existence any less real? Take for example China. It's press is heavily controlled by the government; so much so that they may have no clue as to the events that transpire across the globe. Does this lack of support in the minds of the Chinese people posit the nonexistence of an event acknowledged by the rest of the world?

Another example, I'll assume that you'd agree that our country operates on levels secrecy that the public may never know about until far later. Take for example the operation to hunt down Osama recently. Had it failed or succeeded, the reality of the situation in the public consciousness would depend entirely upon the admission of the government to such an act. There may be rumors suggesting it's existence but it would be largely considered a conspiracy theory due to a lack of tangible evidence. So I ask you this, who holds the evidence? And would the classified status of the information hint at anything but ulterior motives behind the scenes of the mainstream community withholding said data?

My goal isn't to prove anything, because as I have implied, very little can be proven absolute beyond the shadow of a doubt, but it's to promote true skepticism. it's not enough to be skeptic about anomalies, one must be skeptic about their own inclination and what has been the status quo simply because of the ability of said information to be so traditionally readily digested.

As far as the logistics of eliminating an advanced civilization. I propose this; We constantly lose land masses due to geographic subduction. As a result many fossils have been lost. Now apply this possibility to the current issue, maybe it sank??? Flood the world, rid the vestigial human colonies of any access (to a point) to their without changing the mechanics of the land masses. I'm NOT saying I believe it, but it's a thought.
You need to read more carefully what I write. I already explained to you that hypotheses are based on the results of previous research, not the conclusions that were drawn from them. They can be based on the model that has arisen from them, as to provide a yes-no question, but they are by no means there to create bias and when thought of properly they also don't.

If you don't know if something exists, then all you can do is to determine the probability of its existence.
As you say: "Does this lack of support in the minds of the Chinese people posit the nonexistence of an event acknowledged by the rest of the world?". Yes, if All of the scientific community had only the information of this hypothetical Chinese populace, then that would indeed be the case. That's the whole point of statistical analysis and don't dare argue the viability of statistical analysis, because then you're just arguing semantics.

Btw, you have quite a flawed view of China. It isn't North Korea. Granted, the media are definitely not as free as western media, but the Chinese populace is most definitely not completely ignorant of the rest of the world.

All evidence in all scientific claims is hold by the scientific community and are completely public. There are absolutely no conclusions in science based on secret research. There could be hidden evidence out there, but that has nothing to do with the existing scientific models and hiding the kind of evidence of a highly advanced civilization in the past would be practically impossible, as I've explained above.

Again, I never claimed anything could be proven absolutely. Science deals with probabilities, not certainties. It is in fact impossible to be absolutely certain of everything in science. It actually lies at the basis of Quantum Mechanics and is called the Uncertainty Principle.

Now you're just arguing semantics. Think about it. What would happen if New York city sank? Even had it sank in the middle of the Pacific, we'd still find tons of traces such as plastics just washing ashore, all over the world no less. Then there's the huge chemical footprint it leaves in the ocean, likely for centuries if not millennia.

Sinking a modern city leaves far more traces than sinking an old city would, not just because we're talking about a metropolis and so everything old cities had is multiplied by a hundred, but more importantly because the civilization's advancement makes it traces incredibly durable and out of place.

And to continue, how exactly would you go about actually sinking a city of that size? It's not like they're floating or anything. They're built on solid ground. You'd have to forcibly push the ground under the city, which has to be near a large body of water, to deep under sea level in a very short amount of time (else they'd just have moved). This again is a kind of cataclysmic event of a magnitude that would be easily noticeable to have happened and guess what, it didn't. There's no such event.

Rest assured that people have not hesitated to research the most ridiculous of theories. The only reason you never hear of them is because they often turn out not to be true, which makes sense because they're ridiculous. To give you an example, there has been actual research done to prove whether the moon is made out of cheese (of course the conclusion was that it didn't).

I'm certain that there have been scientists that took the time to think of and research the possibility of a highly advanced civilization in the past, but current evidence does not support such theories, so the probability of it being true is very slim, contrary to current models.

Agentbarto
10-24-2011, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Sorry I was gone a while.

Please explain how the results of a hypothesis are different from the implications of the hypothesis? It seems to me that they are linked and you can go one of two ways.

Here's my point. Hypotheses test the relation ship between an observation and a new question. The question asked is based on either previous information learned (conclusions made by others) or a scientific challenge to the status quo. Because of that, new scientific tests are directly linked to the scientific community, as are the results learned by students in school. At least up until a certain point where teachers assume you know enough that the complexity of a theory won't confuse you.

So there's the thing. If you don't know something exists, does that make its potential existence any less real? Take for example China. It's press is heavily controlled by the government; so much so that they may have no clue as to the events that transpire across the globe. Does this lack of support in the minds of the Chinese people posit the nonexistence of an event acknowledged by the rest of the world?

Another example, I'll assume that you'd agree that our country operates on levels secrecy that the public may never know about until far later. Take for example the operation to hunt down Osama recently. Had it failed or succeeded, the reality of the situation in the public consciousness would depend entirely upon the admission of the government to such an act. There may be rumors suggesting it's existence but it would be largely considered a conspiracy theory due to a lack of tangible evidence. So I ask you this, who holds the evidence? And would the classified status of the information hint at anything but ulterior motives behind the scenes of the mainstream community withholding said data?

My goal isn't to prove anything, because as I have implied, very little can be proven absolute beyond the shadow of a doubt, but it's to promote true skepticism. it's not enough to be skeptic about anomalies, one must be skeptic about their own inclination and what has been the status quo simply because of the ability of said information to be so traditionally readily digested.

As far as the logistics of eliminating an advanced civilization. I propose this; We constantly lose land masses due to geographic subduction. As a result many fossils have been lost. Now apply this possibility to the current issue, maybe it sank??? Flood the world, rid the vestigial human colonies of any access (to a point) to their without changing the mechanics of the land masses. I'm NOT saying I believe it, but it's a thought.
You need to read more carefully what I write. I already explained to you that hypotheses are based on the results of previous research, not the conclusions that were drawn from them. They can be based on the model that has arisen from them, as to provide a yes-no question, but they are by no means there to create bias and when thought of properly they also don't.

If you don't know if something exists, then all you can do is to determine the probability of its existence.
As you say: "Does this lack of support in the minds of the Chinese people posit the nonexistence of an event acknowledged by the rest of the world?". Yes, if All of the scientific community had only the information of this hypothetical Chinese populace, then that would indeed be the case. That's the whole point of statistical analysis and don't dare argue the viability of statistical analysis, because then you're just arguing semantics.

Btw, you have quite a flawed view of China. It isn't North Korea. Granted, the media are definitely not as free as western media, but the Chinese populace is most definitely not completely ignorant of the rest of the world.

All evidence in all scientific claims is hold by the scientific community and are completely public. There are absolutely no conclusions in science based on secret research. There could be hidden evidence out there, but that has nothing to do with the existing scientific models and hiding the kind of evidence of a highly advanced civilization in the past would be practically impossible, as I've explained above.

Again, I never claimed anything could be proven absolutely. Science deals with probabilities, not certainties. It is in fact impossible to be absolutely certain of everything in science. It actually lies at the basis of Quantum Mechanics and is called the Uncertainty Principle.

Now you're just arguing semantics. Think about it. What would happen if New York city sank? Even had it sank in the middle of the Pacific, we'd still find tons of traces such as plastics just washing ashore, all over the world no less. Then there's the huge chemical footprint it leaves in the ocean, likely for centuries if not millennia.

Sinking a modern city leaves far more traces than sinking an old city would, not just because we're talking about a metropolis and so everything old cities had is multiplied by a hundred, but more importantly because the civilization's advancement makes it traces incredibly durable and out of place.

And to continue, how exactly would you go about actually sinking a city of that size? It's not like they're floating or anything. They're built on solid ground. You'd have to forcibly push the ground under the city, which has to be near a large body of water, to deep under sea level in a very short amount of time (else they'd just have moved). This again is a kind of cataclysmic event of a magnitude that would be easily noticeable to have happened and guess what, it didn't. There's no such event.

Rest assured that people have not hesitated to research the most ridiculous of theories. The only reason you never hear of them is because they often turn out not to be true, which makes sense because they're ridiculous. To give you an example, there has been actual research done to prove whether the moon is made out of cheese (of course the conclusion was that it didn't).

I'm certain that there have been scientists that took the time to think of and research the possibility of a highly advanced civilization in the past, but current evidence does not support such theories, so the probability of it being true is very slim, contrary to current models. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay I think we're saying the same thing for the most part but you and I disagree on one basic principle, which is that results are meaningless until data analysis occurs. Data analysis is interpretation. Conclusions are generalizations of the hypothetical interpretations. You yourself stated that hypotheses are just that, hypothetical situations, and the circumstances of those situations have hypothetically valid results, which can be generalized into a theory once enough research has been conducted to validate other similar hypothetical results. Even Theories are susceptible to deviations, as are Laws.

Fact remains that even what we consider to be a rule of nature is simply based on observable/calculable situations. There are unknown unknowns in other words, and to write them off completely is scientifically folly because then you create a leniency towards one side based on what you know to be "true". Therefore if we don't know if something exists, all we can do is determine the probability of what we do know exists. Anything that is unknown should be brushed off to the side until such a time enough evidence supports the claim to posit it's probable existence, but never labeled totally impossible.

As for the Uncertainty Principle, that can as of now, only be applied to quantum mechanics which we theorize to lie at the core of general physics. Until a "Theory of Everything" is supported by enough evidence, at which point we can assume it to be true, all we can say is that the probabilistic nature of atomic level reactions is a result of the probabilistic nature of subatomic particles. For example, I scraped my knee, all I can say right now is I scraped my knee because I tripped and fell. I tripped and fell because of [insert cause here]. This causative event is a result of probability, and it is equally likely that in another universe I didn't trip because quark reactions were different. The mechanism that links the quantum realm of physics is still unknown, but at a certain point you have to deal with certainty because something other than probability has to underlie a probability. Think of permutations, completely probabilistic results but an underlying equation.

China and Korea both have strict press regulation. Not sure as far as science goes, but I used it because it seemed the most pertinent hypothetical example at the time. You can sure as hell bet that their history is radically different from what the rest of the world perceives it to be though.

Valid point but when you consider the fact that we know very little , comparatively speaking, about our deep oceans than we do about our lands, and even they are somewhat unexplored..., their is room left for doubt in that which we observe in nature. Also who says it had to be built on solid ground, could have been a marshy equivalent to Venice, that place is slowly sinking and it wouldn't take much of a natural disaster (knock on wood) to sink it. There is ground that degrades slowly but nonetheless much more quickly than solid rock when exposed to watery mediums. Also science is sadly not at the front end of our list of priorities, wish it were, then we'd be off this planet and exploring space, but that's a discussion for another day.

The assumption for secrecy and lies is that our national science establishment, NASA was founded by the government and that since its inception NASA has conducted research that is kept separate from the public research. This borders on paranoia, but it makes sense why one might believe that the existence of certain research is manipulated to fit the government's will. Which is not the same thing as saying that research is kept from the public by the scientific community. In such a case the scientific community would never even know about the research.

LightRey
10-24-2011, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Okay I think we're saying the same thing for the most part but you and I disagree on one basic principle, which is that results are meaningless until data analysis occurs. Data analysis is interpretation. Conclusions are generalizations of the hypothetical interpretations. You yourself stated that hypotheses are just that, hypothetical situations, and the circumstances of those situations have hypothetically valid results, which can be generalized into a theory once enough research has been conducted to validate other similar hypothetical results. Even Theories are susceptible to deviations, as are Laws.

Fact remains that even what we consider to be a rule of nature is simply based on observable/calculable situations. There are unknown unknowns in other words, and to write them off completely is scientifically folly because then you create a leniency towards one side based on what you know to be "true". Therefore if we don't know if something exists, all we can do is determine the probability of what we do know exists. Anything that is unknown should be brushed off to the side until such a time enough evidence supports the claim to posit it's probable existence, but never labeled totally impossible.

As for the Uncertainty Principle, that can as of now, only be applied to quantum mechanics which we theorize to lie at the core of general physics. Until a "Theory of Everything" is supported by enough evidence, at which point we can assume it to be true, all we can say is that the probabilistic nature of atomic level reactions is a result of the probabilistic nature of subatomic particles. For example, I scraped my knee, all I can say right now is I scraped my knee because I tripped and fell. I tripped and fell because of [insert cause here]. This causative event is a result of probability, and it is equally likely that in another universe I didn't trip because quark reactions were different. The mechanism that links the quantum realm of physics is still unknown, but at a certain point you have to deal with certainty because something other than probability has to underlie a probability. Think of permutations, completely probabilistic results but an underlying equation.

China and Korea both have strict press regulation. Not sure as far as science goes, but I used it because it seemed the most pertinent hypothetical example at the time. You can sure as hell bet that their history is radically different from what the rest of the world perceives it to be though.

Valid point but when you consider the fact that we know very little , comparatively speaking, about our deep oceans than we do about our lands, and even they are somewhat unexplored..., their is room left for doubt in that which we observe in nature. Also who says it had to be built on solid ground, could have been a marshy equivalent to Venice, that place is slowly sinking and it wouldn't take much of a natural disaster (knock on wood) to sink it. There is ground that degrades slowly but nonetheless much more quickly than solid rock when exposed to watery mediums. Also science is sadly not at the front end of our list of priorities, wish it were, then we'd be off this planet and exploring space, but that's a discussion for another day.

The assumption for secrecy and lies is that our national science establishment, NASA was founded by the government and that since its inception NASA has conducted research that is kept separate from the public research. This borders on paranoia, but it makes sense why one might believe that the existence of certain research is manipulated to fit the government's will. Which is not the same thing as saying that research is kept from the public by the scientific community. In such a case the scientific community would never even know about the research.
Alright, it's now clear to me that you're trying to argue with statistics, which is where I'm going to end this discussion. If you're willing to contradict the validity of statistical analysis, then you are basically willing to contradict math and therefore logic.

agitatedchimp
10-26-2011, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by O6EvolutionIXMR:
Hey everyone. I'm new on this forum but have been a HUGE fan of AC since before the first release when the first screen shots surfaced.

After completing the second game a week after its release, questions started popping into my head. Questions & theories that I began really thinking about.
Anyway, I haven't posted anything because shortly after completing the game, my computer gave out so I had to replace it with a new one and only about 2 weeks ago did that happen.
Yesterday night I decided to make a video on my thoughts on how Assassin's Creed might have a connection with the story of Atlantis.
Watch my video, rate, comment, and let me know your thoughts on the subject and then scroll down for the update .
Thanks alot!
The Truth - Atlantis? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW13lBNOsF0)

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae159/EvolutionIXMR/mitsubishi_atlantis.jpg


http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae159/EvolutionIXMR/mitsubishi_shangrila.jpg



**UPDATE**

Well, yesterday night after completing the "Bonfire of the Vanities" DLC I decided to take a trip back to Monteriggioni and take a look at the codex pages. Maybe there is something that I missed when I originally read them after beating the game in November. Turns out that there are a couple of pages that do have some "hints" toward my Atlantis theory.

-Codex Page 17-

"Of all the things I've seen, none troubles me more than the image of the flames... Pillars so tall they seemed to pierce the heavens. The ground rumbled and shuddered. Mountains split and crack. Great metal towers splintered, their innards strewn about the ground... And everywhere there was screaming. A chorus so terrible that even now I feel its echoes still. What is this madness I have seen? Is it them, I wonder? Those who came before... Is this where they went? Into the fire? Into the dust? Perhaps this destructive power is what the Templars seek. That they might hold it over us a command devotion. What hope would we have, then, if they held such darkness in their hands - that they could murder the world..."

At first after reading this, I thought maybe it was a precognition of future civilization. Especially after reading the part where it says, "Great metal towers splintered". But when I got to the part where it says, "What is this madness I have seen? Is it them, I wonder? Those who came before..." I immediately thought about The Truth video. This must've been what Altair saw.
So in that case, if this vision took place in the past, then that should point directly to Atlantis.
According to Plato's Critias Dialogue, Atlantis was destroyed by a huge cataclysm of earthquakes & flood as a punishment by the gods( Maybe having something to do with what Minerva said (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Those_Who_Came_Before) )


-Codex Page 26-

"I have the answer now. I know the truth. I shall not touch that wretched thing again. Best that no one do, now or ever. I have tried - at last - to destroy it, but it will neither bend nor break nor melt. Oh the irony - I am certain if I asked, the Apple would tell me what need be done. But even this promise is insufficient. Always it holds one more gift to give. I must refrain. So it shall be sealed. We will take it to the island - once theirs, now ours. There is a treasury there - hidden well - and it shall have to suffice. Risky to separate myself from the artifact that others may discover it. Riskier still to keep it close. In time I will be tempted. I am weak. We all are. Who wouldn't be? Oh, the things I have seen... The tale is here - inside the text. Not between the lines but beneath them. Where only our eyes might peer. Go and see it for yourself. That you might succeed where I and the others have failed. Time marches on - bringing with it new discoveries and developments. And so at least one day the doorway might be opened and the message delivered. They will have their prophet."

The part that says, "So it shall be sealed. We will take it to the island - once theirs, now ours" is most likely referring to the place in The Truth video which I believe is Atlantis. Many believe that the mountain in the video looks like Mount Kilimanjaro, which I also agree that it does. But Mount Kilimanjaro is located in Tanzania, which everybody knows isn't an island. And although Cyprus doesn't have any mountains resembling Kilimanjaro, if Atlantis did go through such a large cataclysmic event that destroyed the city and caused such flooding, then it most likely would've changed the geography drastically(think Thera eruption and its caldera).
Also something I'd like to point out is that althought the mountain in the video appears to look like current-day Kilimanjaro, it doesn't mean that is what it looked like thousands of years ago. The current ice cap on Kilimanjaro is far smaller than what it looked like in ancient times due to valcanic activity inside the mountain(which is a stratovolcano).
http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/doatl_fj_1.jpg http://www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/religion/images/Atlantis-Painting.jpg http://www.constellation7.org/TheFlood/Destruction.jpg

When I read the part that says, "There is a treasury there - hidden well - and it shall have to suffice", I though maybe it has something to do with the Oak Island (http://www.oakislandtreasure.co.uk/content/view/353/215/) story in Nova Scotia. But I'm a bit sceptical when it comes to that legend. Especially when you consider that Altair wants to hide it, and the story of Oak Island is that there is a Templar treasure that was hidden by THEM. Wouldn't make sense.
One more thing that caught my eye that I'd like to mention is the fact that "-hidden well-" is hyphenated(has dashes). Why would they do that? Is it to point toward a clue?
"Hidden well" might be referring to the treasure being hidden in a very good manner OR it could mean something completely different. Another word for "Well" is "Fountain. Atlantis had fountains, Sacred ones to top it off:

"Moreover, the land reaped the benefit of the annual rainfall, not as now losing the water which flows off the bare earth into the sea, but, having an abundant supply in all places, and receiving it into herself and treasuring it up in the close clay soil, it let off into the hollows the streams which it absorbed from the heights, providing everywhere abundant fountains and rivers, of which there may still be observed sacred memorials in places where fountains once existed; and this proves the truth of what I am saying". -Critias, Plato

Might there be some sort of connection there?

Anyway, let me know what you guys think.

Awesome Research great job! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I found something i think you might like to add to your research:
I recommend playing over Assassins creed (the original)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhUZn2QR-XY
If you play the video from 3:00 - 3:30 specifically i Believe you will find some arguable evidence to your theory listen closely to vidic's dialogue.
I also recommend reading the laptop messages in the conference room at the end of the game, i cant guarantee that you will find anything but its worth a shot.

EvolutionIXMR
10-28-2011, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by agitatedchimp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by O6EvolutionIXMR:
Hey everyone. I'm new on this forum but have been a HUGE fan of AC since before the first release when the first screen shots surfaced.

After completing the second game a week after its release, questions started popping into my head. Questions & theories that I began really thinking about.
Anyway, I haven't posted anything because shortly after completing the game, my computer gave out so I had to replace it with a new one and only about 2 weeks ago did that happen.
Yesterday night I decided to make a video on my thoughts on how Assassin's Creed might have a connection with the story of Atlantis.
Watch my video, rate, comment, and let me know your thoughts on the subject and then scroll down for the update .
Thanks alot!
The Truth - Atlantis? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW13lBNOsF0)

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae159/EvolutionIXMR/mitsubishi_atlantis.jpg


http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/ae159/EvolutionIXMR/mitsubishi_shangrila.jpg



**UPDATE**

Well, yesterday night after completing the "Bonfire of the Vanities" DLC I decided to take a trip back to Monteriggioni and take a look at the codex pages. Maybe there is something that I missed when I originally read them after beating the game in November. Turns out that there are a couple of pages that do have some "hints" toward my Atlantis theory.

-Codex Page 17-

"Of all the things I've seen, none troubles me more than the image of the flames... Pillars so tall they seemed to pierce the heavens. The ground rumbled and shuddered. Mountains split and crack. Great metal towers splintered, their innards strewn about the ground... And everywhere there was screaming. A chorus so terrible that even now I feel its echoes still. What is this madness I have seen? Is it them, I wonder? Those who came before... Is this where they went? Into the fire? Into the dust? Perhaps this destructive power is what the Templars seek. That they might hold it over us a command devotion. What hope would we have, then, if they held such darkness in their hands - that they could murder the world..."

At first after reading this, I thought maybe it was a precognition of future civilization. Especially after reading the part where it says, "Great metal towers splintered". But when I got to the part where it says, "What is this madness I have seen? Is it them, I wonder? Those who came before..." I immediately thought about The Truth video. This must've been what Altair saw.
So in that case, if this vision took place in the past, then that should point directly to Atlantis.
According to Plato's Critias Dialogue, Atlantis was destroyed by a huge cataclysm of earthquakes & flood as a punishment by the gods( Maybe having something to do with what Minerva said (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Those_Who_Came_Before) )


-Codex Page 26-

"I have the answer now. I know the truth. I shall not touch that wretched thing again. Best that no one do, now or ever. I have tried - at last - to destroy it, but it will neither bend nor break nor melt. Oh the irony - I am certain if I asked, the Apple would tell me what need be done. But even this promise is insufficient. Always it holds one more gift to give. I must refrain. So it shall be sealed. We will take it to the island - once theirs, now ours. There is a treasury there - hidden well - and it shall have to suffice. Risky to separate myself from the artifact that others may discover it. Riskier still to keep it close. In time I will be tempted. I am weak. We all are. Who wouldn't be? Oh, the things I have seen... The tale is here - inside the text. Not between the lines but beneath them. Where only our eyes might peer. Go and see it for yourself. That you might succeed where I and the others have failed. Time marches on - bringing with it new discoveries and developments. And so at least one day the doorway might be opened and the message delivered. They will have their prophet."

The part that says, "So it shall be sealed. We will take it to the island - once theirs, now ours" is most likely referring to the place in The Truth video which I believe is Atlantis. Many believe that the mountain in the video looks like Mount Kilimanjaro, which I also agree that it does. But Mount Kilimanjaro is located in Tanzania, which everybody knows isn't an island. And although Cyprus doesn't have any mountains resembling Kilimanjaro, if Atlantis did go through such a large cataclysmic event that destroyed the city and caused such flooding, then it most likely would've changed the geography drastically(think Thera eruption and its caldera).
Also something I'd like to point out is that althought the mountain in the video appears to look like current-day Kilimanjaro, it doesn't mean that is what it looked like thousands of years ago. The current ice cap on Kilimanjaro is far smaller than what it looked like in ancient times due to valcanic activity inside the mountain(which is a stratovolcano).
http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/doatl_fj_1.jpg http://www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/religion/images/Atlantis-Painting.jpg http://www.constellation7.org/TheFlood/Destruction.jpg

When I read the part that says, "There is a treasury there - hidden well - and it shall have to suffice", I though maybe it has something to do with the Oak Island (http://www.oakislandtreasure.co.uk/content/view/353/215/) story in Nova Scotia. But I'm a bit sceptical when it comes to that legend. Especially when you consider that Altair wants to hide it, and the story of Oak Island is that there is a Templar treasure that was hidden by THEM. Wouldn't make sense.
One more thing that caught my eye that I'd like to mention is the fact that "-hidden well-" is hyphenated(has dashes). Why would they do that? Is it to point toward a clue?
"Hidden well" might be referring to the treasure being hidden in a very good manner OR it could mean something completely different. Another word for "Well" is "Fountain. Atlantis had fountains, Sacred ones to top it off:

"Moreover, the land reaped the benefit of the annual rainfall, not as now losing the water which flows off the bare earth into the sea, but, having an abundant supply in all places, and receiving it into herself and treasuring it up in the close clay soil, it let off into the hollows the streams which it absorbed from the heights, providing everywhere abundant fountains and rivers, of which there may still be observed sacred memorials in places where fountains once existed; and this proves the truth of what I am saying". -Critias, Plato

Might there be some sort of connection there?

Anyway, let me know what you guys think.

Awesome Research great job! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I found something i think you might like to add to your research:
I recommend playing over Assassins creed (the original)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhUZn2QR-XY
If you play the video from 3:00 - 3:30 specifically i Believe you will find some arguable evidence to your theory listen closely to vidic's dialogue.
I also recommend reading the laptop messages in the conference room at the end of the game, i cant guarantee that you will find anything but its worth a shot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks. I really appreciate it.
I vividly remember everything in AC1 since I played it like 100 times haha. There are lots of hints at my little theory here and since originally posting this after ACII I haven't changed my mind about it. Even after Brotherhood being released afterwards. In fact, I think it only strengthens it.

jcoyle_hull
10-29-2011, 09:05 AM
I dont know if atlantis is true or anything else (although i would love them to prove it is) but i would love an assassins creed game in atlantis!! Those pictures of an assassin stood in front of atlantis look great and look like a great place for an assassin to work

LightRey
10-29-2011, 09:17 AM
Why is it that every time I open this thread a login message appears for some weird Christian website? Is that even allowed?

iN3krO
10-29-2011, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
Why is it that every time I open this thread a login message appears for some weird Christian website? Is that even allowed?

it only happens to you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LightRey
10-29-2011, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
Why is it that every time I open this thread a login message appears for some weird Christian website? Is that even allowed?

it only happens to you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It seems to only happen on pages where the first post is (quoted). Really weird...

Black_Widow9
10-29-2011, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
Why is it that every time I open this thread a login message appears for some weird Christian website? Is that even allowed?

it only happens to you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It seems to only happen on pages where the first post is (quoted). Really weird... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This may be a Phishing attempt. Please change your password. If you have any problems accessing your account please contact Ubisoft Support. If you have any screenshots and the url please PM it to me. Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

EvolutionIXMR
10-29-2011, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Black_Widow9:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
Why is it that every time I open this thread a login message appears for some weird Christian website? Is that even allowed?

it only happens to you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It seems to only happen on pages where the first post is (quoted). Really weird... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This may be a Phishing attempt. Please change your password. If you have any problems accessing your account please contact Ubisoft Support. If you have any screenshots and the url please PM it to me. Let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, i'm not sure why it does that. Noticed it a while ago & figured I was the only one experiencing it, but I guess not.

pabaisabevardo
10-31-2011, 12:15 PM
Question: The Truth – Atlantis Connection?

Answer: My 3 primary concerns now are the Creed, the Theory of Everything and the OverMan. I do not deviate, unless absolutely necessary, but I’ll make an exception, due to the popularity of “The Truth – Atlantis Connection?”: its fake logic, flawed explanations, incorrect engineering, random trend research and my inclination to besmirch.

Atlantis does not exist. It is just a term coined by Plato in 360 BC for a highly-advanced NON-EXISTANT lost civilization, just as Francis Bacon described the same idea in “New Atlantis” (1624) only for a highly-advanced NON-EXISTANT civilization in the future, or as Plato wrote in “Republic” (380 BC) reciprocally to Sir Thomas More writings in “Utopia” (1516) of a perfect NON-EXISTANT socio-politico-legal system. The arguments for the Atlantis existence made by “Evolution” (the pseudonym of the 28 y.o. virgin, who probably read the preface of Darwin’s “On the Origin of Species” and thinks he’s a “pretty cool guy, who doesn’t afraid of anything”, when in reality he’s just playing Halo on super-duper-party-pooper easy mode) are that of the descriptive and not analytical kind. Instead of answering questions, he raises them with no support and no answers. This is a definition of a hypothesis, not a theory. [The Great Debate between the two terms can be found in Evo’s original post: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...024/m/2261050238/p/7 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/2261050238/p/7) ]

The 3 arguments of the hypothesis of the connection between “The Truth” video and Atlantis: 1. By quoting Plato’s Critias: “center of the whole island”, “fertile plain”, “mountain” and “canals”. 2. By claiming that the Pieces of Eden were made from a no-longer-existing, but seemingly discovered by Romans, alchemy-like metal. 3. My own paraphrasing of the argument by making it a statement: Templars fled from Holy-Land to Cyprus, a proposed place for Atlantis, because Cyprus is considered by some historians as the Garden of Eden.

I will circumvent and refute the expository object-oriented, non-existent-material based, let’s-listen-to-historians-because-we-cannot-think-ourselves arguments with 3 logically reasonable countra-statements. 1. According to Plato, first and best author-source on the subject, Atlantis existed at around 9600 BC, if Galanopoulos is incorrect about it being 960 BC. Adam and Eve were the First Human and they lived in Atlantis before the Act of Sin and their excommunication. Ergo, if Demi-Gods, TWCB, created the First Human in 9600 BC, this would deny the “divinization of archaic hominids”, which started 500, 000 years ago, according to scientifically proven Darwin’s evolutionary theory. 2. According to Plato, Atlantis was an island which was larger than Libya and Asia together. Continent bigger than Asia, the latter being 43,820,000 km2, cannot disappear into thin air, unless Demi-Gods willed its total destruction. 3. Consequentially debunking Evo’s 3rd argument: Templars could not have fled to a proposed place for Atlantis, Cyprus (highly unlikely due to small size), if it was destroyed without a trace by Demi-Gods.

Question: The Truth – Atlantis Connection? Answer: No.

Moral: Do not ever again in your life-time use the word “theory”, since all you have is an unscientific hunch, and most importantly – the word “genius”, since you have absolutely no idea what it is to be like us. Delete your video and return to Oblivion, you self-conceited, self-deluded and self-assuming wanabee pseudo-historian, because no matter, how many sheep believed it, you and they are hell-damned, straight-jacketed, mentally-handicaped, subhuman bonobos of human folly.

***

Primo: Continental drift happened over the past couple billion years at a very slow rate.
Secundus: 80 - 400 million.

LightRey
10-31-2011, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by pabaisabevardo:
Question: The Truth – Atlantis Connection?

Answer: My 3 primary concerns now are the Creed, the Theory of Everything and the OverMan. I do not deviate, unless absolutely necessary, but I’ll make an exception, due to the popularity of “The Truth – Atlantis Connection?”: its fake logic, flawed explanations, incorrect engineering, random trend research and my inclination to besmirch.

Atlantis does not exist. It is just a term coined by Plato in 360 BC for a highly-advanced NON-EXISTANT lost civilization, just as Francis Bacon described the same idea in “New Atlantis” (1624) only for a highly-advanced NON-EXISTANT civilization in the future, or as Plato wrote in “Republic” (380 BC) reciprocally to Sir Thomas More writings in “Utopia” (1516) of a perfect NON-EXISTANT socio-politico-legal system. The arguments for the Atlantis existence made by “Evolution” (the pseudonym of the 28 y.o. virgin, who probably read the preface of Darwin’s “On the Origin of Species” and thinks he’s a “pretty cool guy, who doesn’t afraid of anything”, when in reality he’s just playing Halo on super-duper-party-pooper easy mode) are that of the descriptive and not analytical kind. Instead of answering questions, he raises them with no support and no answers. This is a definition of a hypothesis, not a theory. [The Great Debate between the two terms can be found in Evo’s original post: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...024/m/2261050238/p/7 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/2261050238/p/7) ]

The 3 arguments of the hypothesis of the connection between “The Truth” video and Atlantis: 1. By quoting Plato’s Critias: “center of the whole island”, “fertile plain”, “mountain” and “canals”. 2. By claiming that the Pieces of Eden were made from a no-longer-existing, but seemingly discovered by Romans, alchemy-like metal. 3. My own paraphrasing of the argument by making it a statement: Templars fled from Holy-Land to Cyprus, a proposed place for Atlantis, because Cyprus is considered by some historians as the Garden of Eden.

I will circumvent and refute the expository object-oriented, non-existent-material based, let’s-listen-to-historians-because-we-cannot-think-ourselves arguments with 3 logically reasonable countra-statements. 1. According to Plato, first and best author-source on the subject, Atlantis existed at around 9600 BC, if Galanopoulos is incorrect about it being 960 BC. Adam and Eve were the First Human and they lived in Atlantis before the Act of Sin and their excommunication. Ergo, if Demi-Gods, TWCB, created the First Human in 9600 BC, this would deny the “divinization of archaic hominids”, which started 500, 000 years ago, according to scientifically proven Darwin’s evolutionary theory. 2. According to Plato, Atlantis was an island which was larger than Libya and Asia together. Continent bigger than Asia, the latter being 43,820,000 km2, cannot disappear into thin air, unless Demi-Gods willed its total destruction. 3. Consequentially debunking Evo’s 3rd argument: Templars could not have fled to a proposed place for Atlantis, Cyprus (highly unlikely due to small size), if it was destroyed without a trace by Demi-Gods.

Question: The Truth – Atlantis Connection? Answer: No.

Moral: Do not ever again in your life-time use the word “theory”, since all you have is an unscientific hunch, and most importantly – the word “genius”, since you have absolutely no idea what it is to be like us. Delete your video and return to Oblivion, you self-conceited, self-deluded and self-assuming wanabee pseudo-historian, because no matter, how many sheep believed it, you and they are hell-damned, straight-jacketed, mentally-handicaped, subhuman bonobos of human folly.

***

Primo: Continental drift happened over the past couple billion years at a very slow rate.
Secundus: 80 - 400 million.
You do realize that Plato was not referring to Asia, the continent, but Asia, the western parts of Turkey, right? During those days the term applied to said lands and the majority of the Asian continent was unknown territory to the Greeks.

pabaisabevardo
10-31-2011, 01:09 PM
Primo: You do realize that Plato was not referring to Asia, the continent, but Asia, the western parts of Turkey, right?
Secundus: Turkey: 783,562 km2. Cyprus: 9,251 km2. Do the Math.

LightRey
10-31-2011, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by pabaisabevardo:
Primo: You do realize that Plato was not referring to Asia, the continent, but Asia, the western parts of Turkey, right?
Secundus: Turkey: 783,562 km2. Cyprus: 9,251 km2. Do the Math.
I did. That's my point. If Plato had been talking about an area the size of Western Turkey, it'd be smaller than 783,562 km^2, not 43,820,000 km^2.

pabaisabevardo
10-31-2011, 02:22 PM
Primo: I did. That's my point. If Plato had been talking about an area the size of Western Turkey, it'd be smaller than 783,562 km^2, not 43,820,000 km^2.
Secundus: Asia: 43,820,000 km2. Turkey: 783,562 km2. Cyprus: 9,251 km2. I agree with your point, and by saying “Do the Math”, I agree that Turkey is ~56 times smaller than Asia, but Cyprus is ~85 times smaller than Turkey, thus my statement remains: According to Plato, Atlantis should be bigger, than Turkey, in which case its disappearance without a trace is stil not possible, but Cyprus is not bigger than Turkey, actually ~85 times smaller, ergo, it is NOT Atlantis.

LightRey
10-31-2011, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by pabaisabevardo:
Primo: I did. That's my point. If Plato had been talking about an area the size of Western Turkey, it'd be smaller than 783,562 km^2, not 43,820,000 km^2.
Secundus: Asia: 43,820,000 km2. Turkey: 783,562 km2. Cyprus: 9,251 km2. I agree with your point, and by saying “Do the Math”, I agree that Turkey is ~56 times smaller than Asia, but Cyprus is ~85 times smaller than Turkey, thus my statement remains: According to Plato, Atlantis should be bigger, than Turkey, in which case its disappearance without a trace is stil not possible, but Cyprus is not bigger than Turkey, actually ~85 times smaller, ergo, it is NOT Atlantis.
Well, yes of course, but I was never contradicting that. In fact, I agree with you. It's just that you need to watch out when you say such things, because we are talking from the perspective of a person from ancient Greece and as such you have to consider well what names such as Asia would have stood for.

Agentbarto
10-31-2011, 05:49 PM
Lightrey, are you a science/math major?

LightRey
11-01-2011, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Lightrey, are you a science/math major?
I study astronomy in the Netherlands. It's not exactly the same as going to college in the US, so I can't say I'm "majoring" in anything, but basically I'm in the process of getting my bachelor's degree in astronomy.

Agentbarto
11-01-2011, 10:27 PM
Okey dokey, just curious.

Edit: Also I bet you must be pretty psyched about seeing these on tv over there.

http://kotaku.com/5855142/assa...real-world/gallery/2 (http://kotaku.com/5855142/assassins-creed-doesnt-work-as-well-in-the-real-world/gallery/2)

LightRey
11-02-2011, 12:58 AM
Originally posted by Agentbarto:
Okey dokey, just curious.

Edit: Also I bet you must be pretty psyched about seeing these on tv over there.

http://kotaku.com/5855142/assa...real-world/gallery/2 (http://kotaku.com/5855142/assassins-creed-doesnt-work-as-well-in-the-real-world/gallery/2)
XD
I hadn't seen it yet. That's hilarious!