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DKoor
03-04-2007, 06:43 AM
RAF pilots of BoB (http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/roll.html)

Check out the "STATUS" column on the right...
...
...
Shocking.

Pirschjaeger
03-04-2007, 09:10 AM
Less than half survived the war.

DKoor
03-04-2007, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Less than half survived the war.
Yes...
Out of 2353 young man involved in the battle on RAF side, 574 were 'foreigners' guys from other countries such is Czechoslovakia, South Africa, Poland, Canada...
544 of them died in BoB, while 791 more died in the course of war, afterwards. 1335 in total.

I'd like to see some figures for Axis side too (mainly Germans, there weren't many nations on Axis side involved iirc, Italians sent some forces there too I don't know for others...).
Their loss figures must be high too, very high.

---------

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

woofiedog
03-05-2007, 11:27 AM
You must add in the aircrew's of the Fleet Air Arm.

Link: http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Battle_honours/Index.htm#English_Channel

Pirschjaeger
03-05-2007, 11:40 AM
Davies, in "Europe, A History, provides a list and figures of the foreign volunteers in the Waffen SS. You'd be amazed at how many of the SS were not German.

I've often wondered that if there were 35,000+ 109s produced and almost none left today, how many 109 pilots were lost; and that's only one plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Insuber
03-05-2007, 12:28 PM
As far as Italian involvement in the BOB, the CAI (Corpo Aereo Italiano) was composed by 75 bombers BR.20, some one hundred of fighters (CR.42 and G.50) and 5 bombers/recon CANT Z.1007. No radios and no heating made LW cautious on their employment.
By the end, the CAI lost 43 lives and 11 planes (plus 17 for accidents). The bottom line, from the first mission on 24th October to the end of the BOB:

BOMBERS:
MISSIONS : 137 (flight hours: 315)
BOMBS DROPPED= 54'320 Kg

FIGHTERS
MISSIONS : 934 (flight hours: 1470)
VICTORIES= 10


These small numbers justify the generalized ignorance about the CAI's, especially compared with the 733 planes and 3'000 crew lost by LW, and some 1000 planes and 500 lives lost by RAF, but I still feel respect and admiration for them.


Regards,
Insuber

Insuber
03-05-2007, 12:49 PM
From a well-known interview of Luigi Gorrini, Italian pilot, about the Battle of England:

"The expedition in England was totally to forget, bombings badly executed and inadequate machines. But the fight of Nov 11th was a beautiful one: I had also the chance years after to meet my adversaries, in Munich, during a meeting of ex-pilots (...) A man comes and asks me: "Are you Gorrini?". He was Peter Towsend, the British ace, who spoke a perfect Italian since his studies in Florence. "You hence were on that CR.42 which shot at me hitting my heel!" "If it was me, you were on that Hurricane who shot at me, and bullets past between my legs".
We became friends, and when he visited Italy I used to pick him up at the airport: he was fond of cars, and since I knew ingegner Ferrari I brought him once in Maranello, where he tested a race car ...


Regards,
Insuber

woofiedog
03-05-2007, 01:20 PM
Insuber... Interesting info.

http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/images/falco_34.jpg

Link: http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/falco_bob.htm

JtD
03-05-2007, 01:24 PM
It's only since FB that I became to admire the lines of the CR.42. It looked butt ugly to me just a few years ago, but by now, I really like it.

And wrt the original post - sad, really sad. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

MB_Avro_UK
03-05-2007, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Insuber:
From a well-known interview of Luigi Gorrini, Italian pilot, about the Battle of England:

"The expedition in England was totally to forget, bombings badly executed and inadequate machines. But the fight of Nov 11th was a beautiful one: I had also the chance years after to meet my adversaries, in Munich, during a meeting of ex-pilots (...) A man comes and asks me: "Are you Gorrini?". He was Peter Towsend, the British ace, who spoke a perfect Italian since his studies in Florence. "You hence were on that CR.42 which shot at me hitting my heel!" "If it was me, you were on that Hurricane who shot at me, and bullets past across my legs".
We became friends, and when he visited Italy I used to pick him up at the airport: he was fond of cars, and since I knew ingegner Ferrari I brought him once in Maranello, where he tested a race car ...


Regards,
Insuber

Good post Insuber http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

And Peter Townsend was due to marry Princess Margaret shortly after WW2 (Sister of the Queen).
But he was prevented from doing so because he was divorced...how times have changed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

For some reason that I can't quite understand...the Battle of Britain (1940 for those who are not aware http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) was fought with a degree of Chivalry on all sides i.e. aircrews from Britain/Commonwealth/Europeans,Germany and Italy.

Many German and Italian Prisoners of War married British women and stayed in Britain after the war http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

KIMURA
03-05-2007, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I've often wondered that if there were 35,000+ 109s produced and almost none left today, how many 109 pilots were lost; and that's only one plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
Not really a surprise. In antagonism to the US and UK whole Germany (and Europe) laid down in wrecks and debris. Sources were a great need. No one cared about future precious a/c - especially Luftwaffe ones and restoration of them. Most German LW equipment became melted down for really needful things like cooking pods and other things and stuff for house hold and industries. Most todays intact examples of German a/c were captured by the US or British and brought to saftey.

Hoenire
03-07-2007, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by KIMURA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I've often wondered that if there were 35,000+ 109s produced and almost none left today, how many 109 pilots were lost; and that's only one plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
Not really a surprise. In antagonism to the US and UK whole Germany (and Europe) laid down in wrecks and debris. Sources were a great need. No one cared about future precious a/c - especially Luftwaffe ones and restoration of them. Most German LW equipment became melted down for really needful things like cooking pods and other things and stuff for house hold and industries. Most todays intact examples of German a/c were captured by the US or British and brought to saftey. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Swords to ploughshares. No complaints from me...

Deadmeat313
03-08-2007, 08:17 AM
This reminded me of the very good book Finest Hour, which told a very good story of the battle from the testimonies of some of those who took part - and the journals of some who didn't make it.

(I don't want to spoil the book for those who have not read it, but...) I see the unfortunate Denis Wissler on the list of KIA.
I initially thought it strange that Neil Richey - who fought over France and had his own journal published during the war - was not listed. Then I remembered Finest Hour detailed his adventures: and he'd been badly wounded over France and was assigned to duties on the ground for essentially the entire period of the Battle of Britain.

It is thought provoking to be able to corroborate narrative history.

Good site. o7

T.

Zoom2136
03-08-2007, 10:19 AM
My great uncle...

Proctor Sergeant J British 602 Killed -- April 18th, 1941 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

BTW... If any of you guys have info on him... type he flew... what were is aircraft marking.. etc... it would be greatly appreciated... as I don't have any info on him...

My grandmother Annie Proctor died in 1999 so I have no means of getting more info... she was also a pilot... ferrying Landcaters during WWII... she was one extraordinary lady... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Insuber
03-09-2007, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by Zoom2136:
My great uncle...

Proctor Sergeant J British 602 Killed -- April 18th, 1941 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

BTW... If any of you guys have info on him... type he flew... what were is aircraft marking.. etc... it would be greatly appreciated... as I don't have any info on him...

My grandmother Annie Proctor died in 1999 so I have no means of getting more info... she was also a pilot... ferrying Landcaters during WWII... she was one extraordinary lady... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif


Great family indeed.. a silly thought crosses my head: maybe the grand nephew of the pilot who killed your grand uncle is reading our posts ... strange and terrible thing the war.

Regards,
Insuber

p-11.cAce
03-09-2007, 03:02 PM
All military aircraft suffer from low retention after their usefulness is expended. over 2000 B-47's were built (at $1.9million 1947 dollars each) and NONE flew in combat - yet there are only 15 survivors. Demand for beer cans is high!