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View Full Version : confession: shooting aircrew hanging under their parachutes



sumdumgoi
07-19-2009, 05:07 AM
Recently in IL-2 1946 I flew a Fw 190A/D or Bf 109K against small formations of American heavy bombers in person vs. PC format using the quick mission builder. I haven't been seeking for historical accuracy, just some quick entertainment. In the last 3-4 battles, I shot at some aircrew hanging under their parachutes and initially was fascinated to see the people and parachutes smoke, catch fire, or virtually explode as they plunged to earth.

I'm not sure why I did this, except that I just wanted to see what happened and what it felt like. I also thought something akin to, "Well, it's only a game, so I'm not doing anything meaningful anyway." I figured worse has been done and even encouraged in other games like "Grand Theft Auto." Today, using the "ctrl-F2" function, I saw the results: limp bodies hanging under parachutes floating down and broken bodies sprawled on the ground. Although this is "only" a game, I was sickened and somewhat horrified by the sights and stopped playing immediately.

It may seem irrelevant that I am writing and describing this action on the board, but I am discomfited that I felt a need of the "thrill of the kill", enough to compel me to post my action and feelings about it and seek other people's feelings about it. Can I ask if anyone else has done this as well and the feelings that occurred before and after the action?

Thank you for reading and your attention.

SMG

DKoor
07-19-2009, 05:58 AM
I remember few times shooting at the chutes on purpose.
It was offline.
I did that few times online vs some un-patient young jedis who obviously never invested much in their social skills.

My rule is... if I see aircraft with engine stopped, aircraft on fire, pilot bailing - I don't shoot. But that's me.

There are some people who will take advantage of my... "rule".
Take a look at this track, I must have ****ed this guy in Ki-27 off, I disengaged from attack when I saw his fighter's engine stopped but he didn't hit refly;
I-153 in action on Zeke vs Wildcat server (http://www.esnips.com/doc/48f19ed3-985d-4996-b879-ebf55a69882c/dkoor153_4ea_zvw_408mm)

Anyhow this is a game you can do whatever you want http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif.

Trefle
07-19-2009, 06:14 AM
I don't do it myself but it's part of war ...
If you can't stand parachute shooting , try to bail out at the last moment or just make sure you are not shot down to fix the problem

I even think that it is somewhat "realistic" to see chute shooting for instance in pacific or eastern front missions where it happened often , not that i like to be shot in my chute , but the way i see it , it's part of air combat , not less or more cruel than bombing defenseless civilians in their sleep or straffing ambulance cars for fun , but it's just my opinion and i never do it cause i don't like to create animosity between myself and online pilots .

BillSwagger
07-19-2009, 06:15 AM
Ive shot at chutes, offline just to see what happens.
I was never sickened by my experiences with it, but seeing a fighter going down in flames does give me the chills. Its just a matter of knowing people were dying in very violent ways, although we are very removed from that experience in a sim/game.


Online, i've been wrongfully scorned for chute shooting. If a guy bails out while i'm still shooting and catches a round it will show i shot his chute. Then everyone on the server is saying "Bad Bill....very bad!!"

but they don't know the half, and usually the guy i shot is quick to whine about that because he is sore about being shot down in the first place.

I don't openly seek people out in their chutes. Its a waste of energy and ammo, just stay out of the way of my guns when you bail.

Choctaw111
07-19-2009, 06:27 AM
Many years ago I did this offline out of curiosity.

mortoma
07-19-2009, 06:41 AM
I do it all the time in offline missions when the AI parachutist is over his own territory because the Dgen campaign generator keeps track of airplanes and pilots on both sides. And if the AI enemy is 'ace' level, it's all the better for you and your side. He'll be replaced by a virtual AI newbie. In a game it's perfectly alright.

AllorNothing117
07-19-2009, 09:02 AM
Never done it but 2 of my mates did when I invited them to play IL-2 for like the first time. It was one of the first things they did. People my age tend to do stuff like that. You mentioned GTA, which a lot of people my age play. I dunno, seems pretty sick if you ask me. Depends why your doing it, if your just curious to see what happens in the game, i.e. have they modeled anything, then fair enough. Personaly I never have and never will. When your playing a sim, your trying to experience reality to some level and I'd never do that in real life.

I flew into a chute acidently once and it sheared my bloody wing off! So I guese it's 1-0 to the parachuters!

UnknownTarget
07-19-2009, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by sumdumgoi:

I'm not sure why I did this, except that I just wanted to see what happened and what it felt like. I also thought something akin to, "Well, it's only a game, so I'm not doing anything meaningful anyway." I figured worse has been done and even encouraged in other games like "Grand Theft Auto." Today, using the "ctrl-F2" function, I saw the results: limp bodies hanging under parachutes floating down and broken bodies sprawled on the ground. Although this is "only" a game, I was sickened and somewhat horrified by the sights and stopped playing immediately.


Really? Really? You need to pull yourself outta the game man - I don't get people who get disgusted or disturbed by this sort of stuff. Some games, yea, because it's very intense and realistic looking, but IL2? They're literally box people. I don't see how you can be affected at all by it, there is no way I can correlate the digital characters to the real things.

Trefle
07-19-2009, 10:15 AM
Last time i did it offline , it was cause i got frustrated by AI ace cheating on gravity and cyborg bomber gunners , i was flying a Ki-61 and was so annoyed that i even waited for a C-47 he was supposed to protect to unload his 28 paratroopers and shot them all in the sky .. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

lol sorry if i sound cruel , but it's just a frigging game for me too , i 'd never do it online though cause i know some people are sensitive about it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
The flak doesn't have much problems of consciousness though , they see parachutes as ennemy units and shoot at them

In real life , i don't know , it's difficult to predict how one would react in extreme conditions , i would like to say i'd never do it , but being honest/realistic , if for instance my best friend or my brother has been killed in his parachute by the ennemy the day before , it starts a vicious circle and i don't know how i would react to this

Scolar
07-19-2009, 10:45 AM
I do it all the time.
I also wait for a bomber or transport filled with paratroops to be on the landing approach, then just as they are about to land and be safe I shoot the plane down.

Fun Stuff!

general_kalle
07-19-2009, 11:02 AM
frankly its a game. if we had to be ethical it wouldnt be right to play any sort of war game what so ever... does it really matter if you kill the pilots when they are inside the bomber or when they're hanging in the chute?

however i dont shoot chutes usually... waste of ammo.

Wildnoob
07-19-2009, 12:15 PM
know "it's a game".

but I take seriosly my missions, try think there are like real ones, so my actions are like on this way.

about shooting aviator's in parachutes, as for that, I don't do this in realistic missions, don't feel myself very well.

backseatgunner
07-19-2009, 12:24 PM
It's ok to have a reaction like this. In fact it's not a bad thing at all.

It is also technically a war crime to shoot aircrew in parachutes. (An aircrewman in a chute is no longer participating in combat if you're wondering).

I'm sure it also happened a lot in real life, especially on the Eastern Front.

Trefle
07-19-2009, 12:43 PM
It happened in every front but in different degrees of importance , it's true it's a war crime because against Geneva convention .
Even in the western front it happened a bit , in the Pacific it was not uncommon to strafe not only pilots bailing out but also survivors of destroyed ships , both sides did it .
In Europe many of the missions fighter pilots had to do were straffing missions that would hit any kind of small boat , trains , trucks etc.. with civilians inside quite often .


I read in the lend-lease website an interview where a pilot explained that he would wait the last moment to deploy his parachute because it would be foolish to risk being shot up in his parachute , which means this was in the mind of pilots at the time , a serious risk , Pokryshkin didn't hide that he would shoot at parachute , difficult to know who started it , probably both sides , also for bomber pilots because their bombing was often indiscriminate (village , cities destroyed etc ) , it probably created strong feelings and constituted quite a risk to bail out over ennemy territory , not only planes could shoot at your parachute but also soldiers or people on the ground

DKoor
07-19-2009, 02:06 PM
Yes, that is correct.
Japanese pilots were often killing allied pilots that were under their chutes.
I'm currently reading a book about Ki-43 aces and I specifically remember that squadron co Kuroe was angry at his pilot after he rammed B-25 crewman under his chute... not because he killed American, but because he could damage his Hayabusa severely while doing so (pg31).
The Japanese army ideology was quite brutal at times... for instance some pilots have taken their lives after they were realized that they wont make it home.
Craziness.

Ba5tard5word
07-19-2009, 02:10 PM
You monsters!


Well really it's just a game, it never affected me. But I never shoot them because it seems like a waste of ammo and time. And don't crash into them, it will kill your plane.

danjama
07-19-2009, 02:26 PM
I'm a bit of a hypocrite. If i know i'm fighting against someone i don't like much, or someone who think's they are too good, i'll carry on shooting when i know i have "got the kill" in the hope i'll catch their pilot. It's a small thrill to see the "soso was killed by danjama" message...especially when they have given you trouble or arguments in the past.

So if i kill your pilot online and don't apologise after, just think back to why you may have ****ed me off http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

However, it sometimes happens by accident, but then i say sorry...most people are understanding. I'll admit to losing my cool about it on public servers, especially since i try and make it clear i'm about to bail (limp controls, lights on) and then they shoot me. it gets my back up, especially if i'm over friendly territory. But thinking about it, an online dogfight is the most logical place to do pilot kills, because pilots/planes are what count. I see no reason to kill a pilot in a co-op unless you don't like them or it'sa mistake.

I never chute kill offline, what's the point?

Zeus-cat
07-19-2009, 02:33 PM
It is a waste of ammo in my opinion. This is a game and I would rather save my ammo for another aircraft that could shoot me down.

gorkyporky
07-19-2009, 05:03 PM
i shoot chutes offline if i get the chance, since honestly, im not hurting anyone. Its like playing UT3, i kill hundreds of people in UT3, and dont feel bad bout it, its just code.

But online is a different thing, i know i hate when someone shoots my chute (and belive you me, im often the one bailing out), so i dont. I also try to keep myself from shooting down someone whith a failed engine or a fire on board, and usualy dont shoot on people whith smokey engines, since i know all to well how much it sux to barely get away from a fight just to be shot down while you are just trying to stay alive.

ElAurens
07-19-2009, 05:07 PM
The real challenge is shooting them before their chute pops open.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


It's just a game guys.

mortoma
07-19-2009, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
The real challenge is shooting them before their chute pops open.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


It's just a game guys. I do that all the time too and can hit them, especially in a plane that has good rudder response. Because a lot of times you might need to kick the rudder hard to get your sights on something that tiny.
I like the way they go limp and change to the "dead position" after you hit them. I'm such a sicko, I know! hehehehe

mortoma
07-19-2009, 06:57 PM
Seriously folks, if you feel guilty shooting them in their chutes, you should feel equally guilty killing them in their plane. Or killing their plane so they get smashed to virtual smithereens when their plane hits mother earth. As some have already mentioned, but I wish to reiterate. Let's face it, if it bothers you maybe you should consider playing Mario Cart on your Wii? Is this a game for cry babies?? I think not......

ImMoreBetter
07-19-2009, 07:06 PM
I don't shoot chutes.

Because I'm always too busy lining up a new target.



... Or running away. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Skoshi Tiger
07-19-2009, 09:51 PM
The only time I shoot people in their chutes is when it sort of historically correct. Normally it's in a Eastern Front missions. That said it's a target of opportunity and If I have to maneuver the plane to get them I don't bother. During these missions (Normally flying for red) I have also rammed my opponents when I've run out of ammo.

War is hell comrade!

Boosher
07-19-2009, 10:49 PM
Everyone on every side shot chutes. I personally don't do it. It feels unsportsmanlike to me. It has happened by accident. People might say that this is a war simulation, and in some cases I agree - but we're also all trying to have fun. To me, firing an extra snapshot to kill the guy in his chute is like an insult. I'm here to have fun, not to hurt anyone.

Odie1974
07-20-2009, 01:59 AM
Offline I shot a chute once - I was fighting with the AI and he gave me a lot of trouble so I got ****ed off and shot him (I am new to the game so the AI is still hard to kill for me).

But usually I do not bother - waste of ammo and time.

And I have no feelings about shooting chutes - it's just pixels I am killing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Maj.Kaos
07-20-2009, 04:04 AM
It's just a game, just killing pixels, no moral harm in that except if players become desensitized to violence and lose their moral compass in real life. Not likely if you're sane.

I shoot parachutes offline just for something different to do in casual QMB's. For campaigns, no. Online I wouldn't do it because it is not cool and would draw lots of heat from other players. I wouldn't care if I got shot up while parachuting, because I don't care about points or anything of that sort. I just hit the Buddha button and I'm good to go again.

Offline, I also enjoy shooting up the soldier pixels running from the convoys that I'm shooting up, again, just for jollies, or something different. In Jane's WW2 Fighters I also went deer hunting often. I think that would be a fun feature in SOW series. Deer, ducks, elephants, little old ladies with shopping baskets under their arms, sunbathers, picnicking couples doing the Big Nasty on a hillside, etc.

In real life I would probably not shoot parachutes (nor little old ladies), but I would understand why it would be done by others. The pilots are the weapons, the planes and guns are tools. A pilot bailing out over his territory is like an empty gun going back for more ammo. Planes can be built in a week or two, pilots take months to train, and more months to be effectively combat worthy. An air force without good pilots, or any pilots, is just an inventory of useless planes.

thefruitbat
07-20-2009, 08:35 AM
i've deliberatly shot down friendly ai aircraft, and then turned back and shot the pilot hanging from his parachute to make sure in an offline campagin before.

no4 plane in my element had nicked kills off me in three of the previous missions, and so on the fourth, on route out, i shot him down. dead.

problem solved.

Did i feel bad about it, umm no, its a computer game, its not real.

fruitbat

AndyJWest
07-20-2009, 09:06 AM
I must admit to having slight misgivings to playing war simulations in general, but IL-2 is relatively gore-free, while telling you a lot about the realities of war. It is also addictive, and that ought to worry me more...

I've only been playing online for a few days, but I see that several of the HyperLobby games seem to explicitly specify not shooting at pilots in their briefing rules, so if in doubt, I don't when playing online. Bear in mind that it can happen accidentally, so if someone gets you on your chute don't immediately assume it was deliberate. Also remember that enemy flak considers you a legitimate target.

As I've discovered to my cost, hitting a parachutist, or his chute, can be fatal too. One time offline I was attacking He111's in a P39, came in fast on the six of one and scored several hits. Would have been a good kill, but he pulled up as I closed, and I ducked close under him. The last thing I saw was the poor guy who bailed in front of me. I think I hit him dead on - black screen, I'm gone. I don't know whether he'd have scored a kill for that, but I'd have awarded him an Iron Cross (posthumous) if I was his C.O.!

BigC208
07-20-2009, 02:30 PM
It's surprising, WW2 being a war of attrition, that it happened not more often. Personally, I think a downed airman over his homeland is a legitimate target. If he's not wounded he could be back up within hours. A trained pilot is a valuable commodity. Shooting at a parachutist over his own territory is like a sniper taking out an officer with a scoped rifle while the guy's taking a dump behind the lines. Same in the game. If it leads your side to victory, go for it. Now if the guy's over enemy territory I would leave him alone and consider him a POW.

danjama
07-20-2009, 04:23 PM
Is that boosher ^?

TheFamilyMan
07-20-2009, 04:34 PM
I don't feel bad about going after the popcorn unless the server forbids this practice, though I usually don't. If I felt bad about all the virtual people I've killed in any manner on my rig, I would have sold it years ago and replaced it with one completely incapable of any decent 3d graphics.

Friendly_flyer
07-21-2009, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by Boosher:
To me, firing an extra snapshot to kill the guy in his chute is like an insult. I'm here to have fun, not to hurt anyone.

Like you I feel that shooting a pilot outside his plane is an insult, and I try to avoid it. The first time it happened to me was actually last nigh, after a group of Bf 109's had ********ed my poor Martlet. I was shot while dangling peacefully down to earth (over enemy territory), and having my parachute shot up was a rather unpleasant experience. I'll never do it to others online.

Boosher
07-21-2009, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by danjama:
Is that boosher ^?

S! Danjama, This is me.

hirosangels
07-22-2009, 07:08 PM
I don't do it, wastes ammo and online servers its a bad habit to get.

Also it sucks b/c there is no way they can defend themselves. At least goon birds can try to fly away. But a guy in a chute? No. Maybe if IL-2 did FPS and you pull out a pistol but that woudln't do much and its unrealistic to have a .45 tommy or a panzerfaust (and trying to hit a 300 km or so moving target ).

As for the implications . . . yeah in wartime I could see the reasoning, especially if the pilot was an ace and in the resources in training to get a rookie pilot for his mission, then the experience an ace gives (also in indoctrinating new guys).


And its no different than shooting them down close to the deck where at 300 km / hr, one missing wing and they cartwheel into the ground or your rounds hitting them directly.



The only incident that sickened me like the OP's was in half life 2 deathmatch, where this guy that was using hacks to shoot through the walls and ghost (no clip) through stuff. Everyone on the server was mad and trying to get him. I happened to randomly be tossing a car aside (you can pick up objects with a gravity gun) and he came through the walls, and got killed.

I switched to crowbar and kept pounding on his corpse for a minute, angrily typing, 'how diya like this now! *********' (as the admins banned him)

The server had a 30 sec delay and bodies are left there ... I logged off and was surprised how much I really hated the guy. I truely had hate, and that unnerved me.

My next few gaming sessions were messed up. It was a game, and having that amount of anger made me impatient, rash, not taking the time or being patient, or employing tactics or right weapon for the right situation. I just kept going for the rocket launcher or grenades for shock effect.

glvaca
07-23-2009, 08:17 AM
I really can't believe you get sick from doing that offline or online for that matter. It's a game man, get a grip. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I never do it online on purpose and never when flying SEOW with the squad. But occassionally it happens when you are shooting and you realize to late he's bailing and you hit the pilot. Some whine about it others realize it just happens to everybody at some point.

Another consideration is that on some servers if you don't blow up the plane or cripple it fatally so it goes in, there always an idiot who will try to steal your kill. I've actually seen guys going in the dirt trying to steal kills. Firing at planes on fire and without wings, etc... Amazing what some people will do for those 100 points.
The worst kind are the pretty good pilots who only play for points and watch their competition sharply. And if you're doing well on points and they can get you, they will shoot you in your shute too (and way out of your plane) so you don't get half points if you're above friendly territory. I admit that if I get a chance to pay them in kind I don't hesitate and with a big smile too, waste of ammo be damned. Besides, it only takes a couple of machine gun rounds to do the trick. That's my only exception.