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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:13 AM
This is NOT for those of you who comes with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, but for you whiners who have nothing else to do but fill this forum with a load of crap. You give this forum a bad name"

*Blabla buhu FM not the same online as offline buhuhu fix it whinneee*

This is NOT a CFS game!! In this sim you can for example adjust the difficulty when it comes to Complex Engine Management (CEM), Prop handling, radiator handling etc.
Just because you "use easy easy" settings when you are offline, doesn't mean that the host on who's server you play on use it. He/she just might have another setting, for example CEM.

My suggestion to you is to stop whining, get on with the flying, read THIS (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_cem.htm) and you might actually LEARN something, instead of just pouring out your "poison" here.
I enjoy reading well thought of posts with substance, but the whining I can do without.

Just a quote from "Vulgar" which I find very fitting to end with;

" IL2FB is the most accurate WW2 CFS (combat flight simulation) available. People that have prior CFS experience may need to forget some of there prior experience, and will have to learn RL attributes of flight dynamics. Since the release of IL2FB I have seen many people claim the game does not work, or a specific plane is crap, because it does something or does not do something. In every claim I have seen, I have found that the problem was not the plane or the game, but the pilot. Unfortunately some are not even aware that there lack of knowledge is what is causing the difficulties. Some of these people are wrongly accusing the IL2FB development team and continue to spread incorrect information."

Read his article, found above!

Cheers mates



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Message Edited on 09/19/0310:48PM by F19_Orheim

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 08:13 AM
This is NOT for those of you who comes with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, but for you whiners who have nothing else to do but fill this forum with a load of crap. You give this forum a bad name"

*Blabla buhu FM not the same online as offline buhuhu fix it whinneee*

This is NOT a CFS game!! In this sim you can for example adjust the difficulty when it comes to Complex Engine Management (CEM), Prop handling, radiator handling etc.
Just because you "use easy easy" settings when you are offline, doesn't mean that the host on who's server you play on use it. He/she just might have another setting, for example CEM.

My suggestion to you is to stop whining, get on with the flying, read THIS (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_cem.htm) and you might actually LEARN something, instead of just pouring out your "poison" here.
I enjoy reading well thought of posts with substance, but the whining I can do without.

Just a quote from "Vulgar" which I find very fitting to end with;

" IL2FB is the most accurate WW2 CFS (combat flight simulation) available. People that have prior CFS experience may need to forget some of there prior experience, and will have to learn RL attributes of flight dynamics. Since the release of IL2FB I have seen many people claim the game does not work, or a specific plane is crap, because it does something or does not do something. In every claim I have seen, I have found that the problem was not the plane or the game, but the pilot. Unfortunately some are not even aware that there lack of knowledge is what is causing the difficulties. Some of these people are wrongly accusing the IL2FB development team and continue to spread incorrect information."

Read his article, found above!

Cheers mates



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Message Edited on 09/19/0310:48PM by F19_Orheim

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:04 PM
Posted by someone who is clearly ignorant of the issues being raised. I think you will find that it is EXACTLY the CEM problem, paricularly in the 109 series that most people are querying. I think you will also find that those very people NEVER fly anything but full real or almost full real settings and that they have so much time in 109s that they can INSTANTLY tell the difference in FMs.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:26 PM
Blackwulf, if you had read my post thoroughly, you would see that I do not turn to those people with constructive criticism. They (we) are all welcome and useful!

I turn to those who just whine. If you take a look at the majority of negative inputs on this forum, can you sincerely say that most of them say anything useful?

I'd say most of them "no".

Small children whine to get things they want (and rarely get it), mature people come with solid arguments, and if they are correct so much the better.

I would hope you are one of the latter, or so it would seem reading your previous posts, so actually I would hope you agreed with me. Whining takes us nowhere,

Can we shake hand on that?

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Zayets
09-19-2003, 12:35 PM
I'll grab a chair , some chips and the beer now...

Zayets out

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:39 PM
Hand me one of them bottles Zayets... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:47 PM
lol yes with CEM you get a better performance especialy in the 109, but with the fast overheat and espcialy the unability to use manual RPM managment its nearly useless.

If you enable it, it&#180;s set to the last value you set, so you can&#180;t change if you fly with 350km/h and last set was 100%, /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif combined with the "great" 1.11 patch it will destroy your engine immediately cause it will overrev your engine before you can react...

Another problem is the loss of power with an overheat engine, I can say now percent but with overheat you loose a lot of Power... so closing radiators is not a real solution...

the real problem is, that the 109 don&#180;t reach their climbrate from official performancesheets and Oleg is saying that they still to good in climb!

JG53 PikAs Abbuzze
I./Gruppe

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 12:50 PM
There you go Abuzze...
Thats the way to build up an argument/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Guys like you are very useful!
(see... big difference to whining)

Cheers mate

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:26 PM
F19_Orheim, do you think LW Pilots are stupid???

For constructive critics please fly a BF109 in IL2, FB 1.0 or 1.11 and you will see the difference. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

The FM differs too much, something has do be wrong.

Snoopy

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:40 PM
Snoopy again: it's the whiners(!) I can't stand. Either I have expressed myself badly, or you guys like to misunderstand me.

Posts like: "FM sux, get real Oleg" aren't really contributing are they?

Posts like the one Abbuzzes posted are NOT whining, but informative and exemplifies the errors or questionable performances with arguments! Those are GOOD!!

Cheers

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:54 PM
1 - I'd like to have a CEM in BF109s that doesn't destroy the engine after 3 seconds.
2 - I'd like to have guns that do not flame like flame-throwers.
3 - I'd like that all a/c that are not correctly modelled in terms of speed, heating, handling, climb-rate, etc, would be soon corrected... at least, let's say, at 90%.

Historical and technical material to do so has been already provided by dozens of guys over there.

By the way, I still think that FB is the best WW2CFS... but we must tend to perfection! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

So... Am I a whiner?

Yes!!
I am a G.55 whiner!!!!!!!!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:00 PM
Once I got around all the oddities of the new FM's I'm coming to enjoy the BF-109 a lot. Not only does it climb very well, but I think a lot of people miss the fact that it also accelerates extremely fast.
Let it overheat as someone told me and I'll repeat their advice. The thing will over heat for 4+ minutes before it damages the engine.
I blew my engine out a bunch of times when I first started flying from using the WEP all wrong. I have yet to run into an aircraft I couldn't force into a lagging turn if they were mad enough to dare follow me.
Tip number one is stay above 3,000 feet. At 4,000 feet nothing climbs close to the BF-109 in a similar year airframe. As altitude increases so does it's performance compared to other aircraft. Even aircraft that are claimed to be able to almost match it's climb at 4,000 feet they no longer do even that.
Also about the acceleration just look at the take off run. Ok it starts off slow and then all of a sudden it comes to life, an next thing you know your off the ground.
It'll climb at airspeeds most aircraft won't manuever worth a flip at.
Also if done right I stayed with a Buffalo in a level turn for several rotations. At least until I overshot him, and then spiral climbed back up.
Now when I get killed it's from opponents who surprise me or when I simply do something stupid.
I'll admit it's flight performance has been degraded since 1.1b. Yet it's definitely not the nuetered plane people have claimed it to be.
One good pass is all I need, and I haven't yet had to make more than one good pass. The pass is the hard thing to setup right.
Offline I can BnZ all day against multiple aces. Online I get frustrated and start turn fighting. Then I die but it's only a matter of time until I get better. I've only been at it a few days so far.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:05 PM
Cippacometa wrote:
- 1 - I'd like to have a CEM in BF109s that doesn't
- destroy the engine after 3 seconds.
- 2 - I'd like to have guns that do not flame like
- flame-throwers.
- 3 - I'd like that all a/c that are not correctly
- modelled in terms of speed, heating, handling,
- climb-rate, etc, would be soon corrected... at
- least, let's say, at 90%.
-
- Historical and technical material to do so has been
- already provided by dozens of guys over there.
-
- By the way, I still think that FB is the best
- WW2CFS... but we must tend to perfection! -
- So... Am I a whiner?
-
- Yes!!
- I am a G.55 whiner!!!!!!!!!



I give UP Cippa.. here have a beer!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:17 PM
F19_Orheim wrote:
-
- I give UP Cippa.. here have a beer!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Cheers!!!!
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:30 PM
snoopy88 wrote:
- F19_Orheim, do you think LW Pilots are stupid???
-
-
- For constructive critics please fly a BF109 in IL2,
- FB 1.0 or 1.11 and you will see the difference. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
-
- The FM differs too much, something has do be wrong.
-

Well.. with all the things wrong with the 109 I'm starting to realize that I must be pretty stupid flying it 95% of the time./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

But then again I don't know any better,
you see...I've never flown a real one! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


F19_Choocky

http://www.f19vs.tk/

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:20 PM
JG77BlackWulf_2 wrote:
- Posted by someone who is clearly ignorant of the
- issues being raised. I think you will find that it
- is EXACTLY the CEM problem, paricularly in the 109
- series that most people are querying. I think you
- will also find that those very people NEVER fly
- anything but full real or almost full real settings
- and that they have so much time in 109s that they
- can INSTANTLY tell the difference in FMs.


HIGH FIVE WULF !!!


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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:36 PM
*sigh*

U dont get it do u?

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 06:38 PM
I'm not sure about the 109 (even though I own an original gas cap), but I do know something about constant speed props. The prop control does NOT directly control the prop, it controls the prop governor (RPM). Max performance (accelleration, speed and climb) is ALWAYS achieved at 100% (max RPM) setting and full throttle. The prop (RPM) is reduced for cruise and non-combat climb to save fuel (and engine stress). The governor will prevent overspeeds (until it reaches mechanical prop high pitch stop) in dives and maintain set RPM (till it hits low pitch stop) in climb: CONSTANT engine SPEED. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Related note: I can't figure out why the manifold pressure doesn't drop like a rock when the throttle is chopped. Even when straight down and prop at 100% /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif , when the throttle is chopped (the throttle valve physically blocks the intake manifold) the manifold pressure will drop like a rock, even (especially) with supercharged engines.

I am curious if german single engine fighters (in game) will ever get their real life ability to feather props?
(Was used to maximise deadstick glide /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 06:55 PM
109 is not a constant speed prop thats why you have the little clock bacause you are directly controlling prop pitch, the 109's 90% - 100 % means you will overrev at medium to high speed , you need your prop at 60% - 80% unless in a climb and less than 60% in a dive, the prop pitch in the 109 is the key to tight turns if you manage it and your throttle well the 109 turns with most planes for a turn or two and still spiral climbs well.
Ive noticed radiators are making alot more difference to speed now auto is not the magic setting it was managing them seems to gain a few more k's as well.

JG4_Tiger

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 07:08 PM
My previous post was not about 109 (one of my favorite planes) because I'm not that familar with the system. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

My remark was aimed primarily at American aircraft because I AM familiar with most of THOSE systems. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

My cross in the game is the Psuper47 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif



Message Edited on 09/19/0301:12PM by BlindHuck

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 07:43 PM
F19_Orheim wrote:
- This is not for those of you who comes with
- constructive criticism, but for you whiners who have
- nothing else to do but fill this forum with a load
- of crap. You give this forum a bad name"
-
- *Blabla buhu FM not the same online as offline
- buhuhu fix it whinneee*
-
- This is NOT a CFS game!! In this sim you can for
- example adjust the difficulty when it comes to
- Complex Engine Management (CEM), Prop handling,
- radiator handling etc.
- Just because you "use easy easy" settings when you
- are offline, doesn't mean that the host on who's
- server you play on use it. He/she just might have
- another setting, for example CEM.
-
- My suggestion to you is to stop whining, get on with
- the flying, read <a
- href="http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_cem.htm">THI
- S</a> and you might actually LEARN something,
- instead of just pouring out your "poison" here.
- I enjoy reading well thought of posts with
- substance, but the whining I can do without.
-
- Just a quote from "Vulgar" which I find very fitting
- to end with;
-
- " IL2FB is the most accurate WW2 CFS (combat flight
- simulation) available. People that have prior CFS
- experience may need to forget some of there prior
- experience, and will have to learn RL attributes of
- flight dynamics. Since the release of IL2FB I have
- seen many people claim the game does not work, or a
- specific plane is crap, because it does something or
- does not do something. In every claim I have seen, I
- have found that the problem was not the plane or the
- game, but the pilot. Unfortunately some are not even
- aware that there lack of knowledge is what is
- causing the difficulties. Some of these people are
- wrongly accusing the IL2FB development team and
- continue to spread incorrect information."
-
- Read his article, found above!
-
- Cheers mates
-
-
-
-


Very good post. It was bound to be misunderstood, though. I've had my 6 torn off by so many GOOD 109 pilots . . . It just stands to reason that these great pilots will notice things that need to be fixed. It also stands to reason that (after having flown the plane unsuccessfully) that it is no easy thing to master. IMHO the 109 pilots are the very best that play this sim. You folks keep up the good constructive criticism . . . I don't think that this thread was meant toward you.

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:08 PM
No one has bemoaned the patched 109 more than me and I've been reluctant to fly it online - but - I had a session this afternoon and was able to shoot down three aircraft.
However, there is a lot more engine nursing, and the climb rate is about half that of the pre patch 109G's, this isnt tweaking the 109 its bending it back and ripping its balls off!



Tedious unoriginal philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:19 PM
What's to know about CEM if you fly VVS planes? 100% throttle and 100% prop pitch. That pretty much sums it up. That's why you never see VVS guys commenting on the CEM. LW planes are a different matter. CEM has a large effect on them and postpatch, you need to learn to fly the planes all over again.

Every patch it's like that for the 109's. They change so dramatically that calling this a game a sim is getting close to a joke.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:20 PM
*grabs a bag of crisps and a bottle 'o beer*



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 09:47 PM
- Just because you "use easy easy" settings when you
- are offline, doesn't mean that the host on who's
- server you play on use it. He/she just might have
- another setting, for example CEM.


What's a "He/she", cuz I think I met one in a bar once. Jim


speaking of constructive posts. 8^)

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:27 PM
t'was me Biggy/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:37 PM
CEM knowledge, VVS coolant can overheat at 125 degrees C. Luftwaffa overheats at 103.

We all know water has a higher boiling points in different countries./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:41 PM
Thing I hate is when I`m flying online and a whiner starts going on about a plane`s effectiveness compared to others (like 5 mins ago!!) "The E4 not as good against Hurri `41! I want an F! Blah! blah! While it`s plain to see Hurris falling outta the sky!- and he won`t stop whining! Just play the game or dump it! DON`T GO ON THE ONLINE GAMES TO WHINE!!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).


Message Edited on 09/19/0309:43PM by SeaFireLIV

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:52 PM
Hear hear Seafire!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 10:57 PM
Someone pass me a beer please?

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Wars Virtual War
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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 11:09 PM
Here you go Recon matey!!!

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XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 11:39 PM
f19 you guys are great and fun to fly with. pettergul and many others are knowledgable and Im sure you know half the whining is correct, whining equal people wanting the most realistic experience they can have. looking at many different government test statistics swiss german us cdn jpn russian the statistics variey so much. Its olegs game and all but using russian data only does not make sense being in wii russias was very paranoid and the truth was rare, look at tupelov for ex. To get a fair an unbais game it takes statisics from all nations and rounding them off.

this place already has a bad name and will never get a good one, its not becuase of the users in the community or the mods either its from how things are handled here and fms being based on pilot tales rather then pure test data

ex: "He exploded into a million pieces"

reality a good wing hit or fuel tank hit where there was thousands of pieces of debris but doesnt mean the plane disintergrated into nothing.

cem is still screwed in alot of planes too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:26 AM
I don`t mean to pick on you, LeadSpitter, but I notice that every post you make on FB is negative. No matter what the original poster intended, you will come on to say something bad on FB... Is it possible for you to make a post without one negative point about FB? Why do you continue playing it?

Still, it`s a free forum... (some of it...)



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.
(Spitfire & Escape Whiner Member).

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 12:36 AM
Looks like the beer garden in Munich I was in a few months back!!!!

I`ll take a Weissbier Please!!!!!!!!!!!!

~S~

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 02:47 AM
becuase i speak the truth, prove my points with data to those who it matters. and really think this game has so much potential now and in future addons.

even the people on these forums who know what they are talking about and have flight exp get called whiner immediatly when stating facts and showing data. Pretty sad I think.. thats why my majority of posts bash fms http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



I have said fb is the best flight sim curretly out.

Fb has the best terrain graphics out of any flightsim out there.

Best looking gunnery

Best water effects in any flightsim

Nice dirt effect from the propwash

and thats it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
09-20-2003, 06:34 AM
But they are basing their posts on their experiences with other flight sims whose FM's are not accurate. Then they fly IL-2 FB, where the FM's are more accurate. Then they posts criticisms based on their past experiences with other sims. I think that is why there are so many posts bashing Oleg and his team.