PDA

View Full Version : ESCORT CARRIER TAKE-OFFS



Riptide_One
09-07-2008, 10:33 AM
Among the single mission directories, there is a sub-directory "UN\F4U-1A", which includes a mission file named "S01.mis". It appears to be the mission used for the allied carrier take-off training. I was surprised to find that the F4U in S01.mis is 100% fueled. The most fuel that I have been able to carry in a F4U and successfully take off from a CVE is 50%. I believe I have correctly followed all the instructions given in the Pacific Fighters allied carrier take off illustration when I attempted a CVE take off in a F4U with 100% fuel, but I have never been successful.

I tried watching the other F4U in this mission take off from the Kitkun Bay to see if he did anything different from what I am doing. For reasons that are not apparent to me, he can do it, but I can't.

I know that you can modify the mission file with at text editor to increase the speed of the CVE above the normal 35 km/hr maximum. However, for me, the question remains. Has anyone been able to take off from a CVE in a F4U carrying 100% fuel? If so, what's your secret?

Cheers,

Riptide

Wispah
09-07-2008, 11:05 AM
I had the same problem with the Seafire, but the topic I created solved my issues:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110...001045646#8001045646 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=8001045646&r=8001045646#8001045646)

Specifically, locking the tail wheel, controlling any roll with the rudder instead of ailerons, and binding flaps up/down to mousewheel so I can put them in a take-off position.

I can now take off with 100% fuel, plus bombs and rockets http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stingray333
09-07-2008, 11:24 AM
I'll have to try this mission myself to see if I can, but a few things to do on carrier take off:

Lock the tail wheel, canopy open, adjust seat, I keep my flaps up at the start. Push the rudder slightly right to counter act the torque before powering up or releasing chocks. Tap wheelbrakes a few times to make sure they are disengaged, sometimes I have had them stick on me. Mixture to 120%, prop pitch at 100%, power up slowly to 110% with WEP, wait until engine is fully reved, then release chocks. Start rolling, keep it straight. Little bit of stick pressure to try to get the nose up as early as possible, drop to take-off flaps halfway down the deck. Keep it straight. A few meters before the end of the ramp drop landing flaps for extra lift and apply a little bit of back pressure to the stick (but not too much), and the absolute instant the wheels are off the deck raise the gear, tiny bit of back pressure still, and using rudder to keep the wings level. I go from landing flap back to take-off flap fairly quickly after leaving the deck, but not right away. Hopefully remain airborne with enough speed at this point and begin pulling away. Last step is to look behind me to see how low I dropped relative to the carrier deck!

Then, mixture back to 100% (I always forget this step until the black smoke starts), canopy closed, flaps up, radiator full open, throttle back down to below 100%, start climb

Stingray

copet
09-07-2008, 11:44 AM
Why do you need the canopy open, and what do you mean by adjusting your seat?

Stingray333
09-07-2008, 12:33 PM
You do not need to have the canopy open, or the seat adjusted to do a carrier take-off landing, but it helps by increasing the visibility. I also like it because in my eyes, the more buttons to push, the better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Adjusting the seat means to raise the seat position so that you can view the carrier deck in front of the nose of the aircraft, greatly enhancing the visibility of the carrier deck when you are taking off.

To adjust the seat it is necessary to have the canopy open, and *not* be in the gunsight view. Some carrier planes you can only open the canopy , which can provide a little bit better visibility (and looks cool), but you cannot change the seat height (F6F for example). F4U allows you to change the seat height. I do not think there is a key bound for canopy open/close or seat raise/lower by default, so you need to go into the controls do bind them.


Stingray

KRISTORF
09-07-2008, 01:06 PM
Before you start your engine 'chock out' then 'chock in' again, your plane will drop a couple of inches and then be on the flight deck.
Makes it easier when you start to roll

CaliCheese3
09-07-2008, 05:38 PM
Ok, I have never tried that single mission before but i just played it and finally got the take off.

1. Do what Kristorf mentioned about the chocks "Out then Back in"

2. Drop flaps to take off position

3. Lock tail wheel

4. Advance throttle to 110% (at 50% release the chocks)

5. Give it a little right rudder ( but try to keep the plane straight)

6. When you pass the island (Tower) drop to landing flaps

7. Most important lightly tug back on the stick (not to much or you will stall or bounce the tail wheel on the deck forcing the nose down, to little you'll drop to fast off the deck)

I did all these steps and it took off like a charm, I didn't get that close to the water either when I went off the deck.

It took about 15 take offs to get it right so don't worry if you can't get it.

fabianfred
09-07-2008, 05:43 PM
....and now with the mods.....you can have wind across the deck to enable take-offs with full loadout (without needing to set the carrier running at extra speed)....with the wind mod

also there are new CVL's with longer decks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Stingray333
09-07-2008, 06:13 PM
I had never played this mission before either, its pretty challenging, but after a few tries I was able to take off with 100% fuel, and seem to be able to make it most of the time now. If I were doing a co-op or online mission on this carrier, I would spin around, taxi to the very end of the carrier deck, spin back around, chocks back in, power-up and take off from the end to get the most length on the runway. Doing this I am able to take off with 100% fuel every time. I've tried it with 2x500lb bombs but so far no luck!

Stingray

FoolTrottel
09-07-2008, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by fabianfred:
....and now with the mods.....you can have wind across the deck to enable take-offs with full loadout (without needing to set the carrier running at extra speed)....with the wind mod

also there are new CVL's with longer decks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Now that's a brilliant answer...

If you got a 'problem', 'question' or 'issue', do not try and fix it by changing your ways, fix it by modifying the product! Really, Brilliant! There's no limit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Riptide_One
09-08-2008, 04:54 AM
Guys, great input. Thanks.

I believe it takes a lot of practice. I've made the following check list for the CVE takeoff procedure based on your comments:

1) open canopy
2) lock tail wheel (I assume that when you lock the tail wheel, the mechanism automatically straightens the wheel. Anyone know whether or not that's true or just Riptide science fiction?)
3) cycle chocks out, chocks in (This really is a strange one. I'll assume it actually makes a difference in the game. It surely looks better.)
4) initially leave the flaps retracted.
5) add four units of right rudder trim
6) push the rudder sightly right before power up
7) tap the breaks few times to make sure they have disengaged (I've have not seen this as a problem before)
8)set mixture to 120% (I had wondered about the purpose of this setting)
9) set prop pitch to 100%
10) power up slowly to 110% with WEP (in the F4U and F6F, WEP engages automatically)
11) hold the stick back to avoid a "nose over" incident
12) wait until the engine is fully reved (it seems that the rpm peaks then drops a little in the first few seconds)
13) RELEASE THE CHOCKS (it appears there is some disagreement on when to release the chocks. but releasing them at full power up seems to work best to me)
14)keep her straight (obviously, this is very important and somewhat of a challenge)
15) shortly after the roll begins, push lightly forward on the stick to get the tail up as early as possible (this seems to help in building airspeed faster)
16) halfway down the deck, drop to take off flaps
17) right before you leave the deck, drop to landing flaps and apply a little back pressure on the stick (This does not seem right to me because in the real flying world, setting the flaps to full extension increases drag. While I have seen using full flaps on take off in this forum before, I have not seen it in any of the IL-2's documents.)
18) ASAP after leaving the deck, get the landing gear up and apply a little more back pressure on the stick (I think coming to know how much back pressure on the stick is needed is another key to success. I think this is a major part of my problem with CVE take offs. How much back pressure is enough? I guess only practice will answer that question for me.)
19) USE THE RUDDER TO KEEP THE WINGS STRAIGHT (deserves caps here)
20) Reduce flaps to takeoff setting
21) As climb out begins, reset mixture to 100%

You could add "practice, practice, and practice some more" to my list. I know that I need a lot of practice. After many tries, I was unable to get a fully fueled F4U into flight successfully even with this check list. I was able to get a 75% fueled F4U into the air only once and for that, I used "training wheels". That is to say I flew that take off at the 1/4 time setting.
Even in slow motion, the same goes for a fully fueled F6F.

However, I was eventually able to get a 75% fueled F6F in the air at 1/2 time setting. I am still working on doing that in real time.

I do have bad habits when it comes to adjusting trim. That's another area for me to work on.

Still, I wish we had a catapult in the game.

Cheers,

Riptide

WTE_Galway
09-09-2008, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by Riptide_One:
Guys, great input. Thanks.

I believe it takes a lot of practice. I've made the following check list for the CVE takeoff procedure based on your comments:

1) open canopy
2) lock tail wheel (I assume that when you lock the tail wheel, the mechanism automatically straightens the wheel. Anyone know whether or not that's true or just Riptide science fiction?)
3) cycle chocks out, chocks in (This really is a strange one. I'll assume it actually makes a difference in the game. It surely looks better.)
4) initially leave the flaps retracted.
5) add four units of right rudder trim
6) push the rudder sightly right before power up
7) tap the breaks few times to make sure they have disengaged (I've have not seen this as a problem before)
8)set mixture to 120% (I had wondered about the purpose of this setting)
9) set prop pitch to 100%
10) power up slowly to 110% with WEP (in the F4U and F6F, WEP engages automatically)
11) hold the stick back to avoid a "nose over" incident
12) wait until the engine is fully reved (it seems that the rpm peaks then drops a little in the first few seconds)
13) RELEASE THE CHOCKS (it appears there is some disagreement on when to release the chocks. but releasing them at full power up seems to work best to me)
14)keep her straight (obviously, this is very important and somewhat of a challenge)
15) shortly after the roll begins, push lightly forward on the stick to get the tail up as early as possible (this seems to help in building airspeed faster)
16) halfway down the deck, drop to take off flaps
17) right before you leave the deck, drop to landing flaps and apply a little back pressure on the stick (This does not seem right to me because in the real flying world, setting the flaps to full extension increases drag. While I have seen using full flaps on take off in this forum before, I have not seen it in any of the IL-2's documents.)
18) ASAP after leaving the deck, get the landing gear up and apply a little more back pressure on the stick (I think coming to know how much back pressure on the stick is needed is another key to success. I think this is a major part of my problem with CVE take offs. How much back pressure is enough? I guess only practice will answer that question for me.)
19) USE THE RUDDER TO KEEP THE WINGS STRAIGHT (deserves caps here)
20) Reduce flaps to takeoff setting
21) As climb out begins, reset mixture to 100%

You could add "practice, practice, and practice some more" to my list. I know that I need a lot of practice. After many tries, I was unable to get a fully fueled F4U into flight successfully even with this check list. I was able to get a 75% fueled F4U into the air only once and for that, I used "training wheels". That is to say I flew that take off at the 1/4 time setting.
Even in slow motion, the same goes for a fully fueled F6F.

However, I was eventually able to get a 75% fueled F6F in the air at 1/2 time setting. I am still working on doing that in real time.

I do have bad habits when it comes to adjusting trim. That's another area for me to work on.

Still, I wish we had a catapult in the game.

Cheers,

Riptide


You probably get away with landing flaps because your speed is very low and you are actually initially dropping off the end of the deck rather then rotating and trying to climb. I am not sure it would be such a good idea in a level takeoff.

The real biggie, as you say, is never ever use stick to correct a wing drop, always level the wings with rudder when at low speed.

fabianfred
09-09-2008, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
....and now with the mods.....you can have wind across the deck to enable take-offs with full loadout (without needing to set the carrier running at extra speed)....with the wind mod

also there are new CVL's with longer decks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Now that's a brilliant answer...

If you got a 'problem', 'question' or 'issue', do not try and fix it by changing your ways, fix it by modifying the product! Really, Brilliant! There's no limit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't let your predjudices affect your reasoning.....

I said AND.... meaning 'in addition to...'
not 'instead of'....

fly_zo
09-09-2008, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by fabianfred:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
....and now with the mods.....you can have wind across the deck to enable take-offs with full loadout (without needing to set the carrier running at extra speed)....with the wind mod

also there are new CVL's with longer decks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Now that's a brilliant answer...

If you got a 'problem', 'question' or 'issue', do not try and fix it by changing your ways, fix it by modifying the product! Really, Brilliant! There's no limit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't let your predjudices affect your reasoning.....

I said AND.... meaning 'in addition to...'
not 'instead of'.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah ... ffb , shame on you
instead of practice to fly with buttons , you're buying joystick .... tsss http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WTE_Galway
09-09-2008, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by fly_zo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
....and now with the mods.....you can have wind across the deck to enable take-offs with full loadout (without needing to set the carrier running at extra speed)....with the wind mod

also there are new CVL's with longer decks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Now that's a brilliant answer...

If you got a 'problem', 'question' or 'issue', do not try and fix it by changing your ways, fix it by modifying the product! Really, Brilliant! There's no limit! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't let your predjudices affect your reasoning.....

I said AND.... meaning 'in addition to...'
not 'instead of'.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah ... ffb , shame on you
instead of practice to fly with buttons , you're buying joystick .... tsss http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can see that working well during the war ... "Sorry Capt'n but the boys have decided these 'ere Bogue/Casablanca class CVE's have too short a flight deck so we is taking a break from flying until you gets us a bigger ship. "

By the way The CVE's were generally seen as BETTER to take off from than the CVL's because the CVE's were more stable in choppy/rough seas.

Fehler
09-11-2008, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by Stingray333:
I also like it because in my eyes, the more buttons to push, the better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Hahaha!

M_Gunz
09-11-2008, 04:06 AM
Would a catapult mod be seen as unrealistic?

Some people go to the trouble to address a deficiency and it gets put down like a cheat.

WTE_Galway
09-11-2008, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Would a catapult mod be seen as unrealistic?

Some people go to the trouble to address a deficiency and it gets put down like a cheat.

The Casablanca class we have in game had a catapult AFAIK so I cannot see it being unrealistic. Though whether the catapult was used to launch fighters I have no idea.

It may be tricky to get working with the game engine but its historical.

BTW what is it with all these Humphrey Bogart references in the Escort Carriers ???