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View Full Version : Pilot report from a TA152 vs Tempest encounter...



GH_Klingstroem
03-08-2006, 10:35 AM
....The pilots were still busy attending to their machines when two enemy fighters were spotted some eight kilomters to the south-west of the field making low level passes over Ludwigslust railways yards- Three Ta152s were ordered to scramlbe at once- pilots Oberstleutnant Aufhammer, Oberfeldwebel Sattler and Oberfeldwebel Reschke. "As the direction of the take off was in line with the railway tracks leading straight to Ludwigslust, we were almost immediately in contact with the enemy fighetrs, which turned out to be Tempests. Flying in No 3 position I witnessed Oberfeldwebel Sattler ahead of me dive into the ground seconds before we reached them. It was hardly possible for his crash to have been the result of enemy action, as the two Tempest pilots had clearly only just registered our presence. So it was two aganst two as the ground level dogfight began. We knew the Tempest to be a very fast fighter, used by the british to chase and shoot down our V-1s. But here in a fight which was never to climb above 50 metres, speed would not play big part. The machines ability to turn would be all important. Both pilots realised from the start that it would be a fight to the finish and used every flying trick and tactical ploy possible to try to gain the upper hand. At this altitude neither the could afford to make the slightest mistake. And for the first time since flying the Ta152 I began fully to appreciate exactly what this aicraft could do. "Pulling ever tighter turns I got closer and closer to the Tempest, never once feeling I was even approaching the limits of the TA's capabilities. And in order to keep out of my sights, the Tempest pilot was being forced to take increasinly dangerous evasive action. When he flicked over onto the opposite wing I knw his last attempt to turn inside me had failed.
"The first burst of fire from my Ta 152 caught the Tempest in the rail and rear fuselage. the enemy aircraft shuddered noticeably and, probably as an instinctive reaction, the Tenpest pilot immediately yoked into a starboard turn giving me an even greater advantage.Now there was no escape for the Tempest. I pressed ´my gun buttons a second time but after a few rounds my weapon fell silent and despite all my effort to clear them, refused to fire another shot. I can no longer remember just who and what I didnt curse. But fortunately the Tempest pilot didnt realise my predicament as he had already taken hits.
Instead he continued desperately to twist and turn and I positioned my self so that I was always just within his field of vision. Eventually inevitably-he stalled. The Tempest's left wing dropped and he crashed into the woods immediately below us... The name of the Tempest pilot was O J Mitchell.

I have lots more from this book I can tell you guys! Its called "Focke wulf Aces of the westen front" Its a very good read!!

TX-Zen
03-08-2006, 10:46 AM
A oldie but goodie, I love this story.

Brain32
03-08-2006, 12:11 PM
Great story, and I think it nicely describes the in game situation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

HayateAce
03-08-2006, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by TX-Zen:
A oldie but goodie, I love this story.

You LOVE a story where a pilot was so terrified for his life that he augered into the woods and died a fiery death? All in the name of glorifying your precious 190 series?

You need some counseling.

Airmail109
03-08-2006, 01:21 PM
I can still hand it to 190 pilots in a Tempest because I know what Im doing, other than that what HayateAce said.

TX-Zen
03-08-2006, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Zen:
A oldie but goodie, I love this story.

You LOVE a story where a pilot was so terrified for his life that he augered into the woods and died a fiery death? All in the name of glorifying your precious 190 series?

You need some counseling. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Shoo troll shoo

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

widgeon
03-08-2006, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Zen:
A oldie but goodie, I love this story.

You LOVE a story where a pilot was so terrified for his life that he augered into the woods and died a fiery death? All in the name of glorifying your precious 190 series?

You need some counseling. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



It would seem that your taking his remark a bit too literally. ie)perhaps he ment, Love= it was a very poignant and interesting account.

Is your sphincter a bit too tight?

Widgeon

Allied_Killer
03-08-2006, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
I can still hand it to 190 pilots in a Tempest because I know what Im doing, other than that what HayateAce said.

It'll be a great educational tool for us noobies, if you could arrange a duel with Zen and post the track for everyone to see. I would be more than willing to act as a liason and even host the fight and post the track for everyone.

This is just an honest opinion, not intended as a sarcasm.

Edit: Deepest sympathies and respect to O.J. Mitchell and his family. Great story none the less.

Airmail109
03-08-2006, 02:03 PM
Heard Zens a good pilot, I mainly do well in full switch servers against 190s, never really had a one on one duel with a 190 in a tempest, ill give it a shot tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Other day got into a split S type dogfight down on the deck with a TA152 and managed to keep inside and him so....i suppose it depends on whose flying and how good you are at riding the stall.

Even if i get shot down, itll help me understand the Tempest more, and so help me. Lifes a learning process.

Cajun76
03-08-2006, 06:34 PM
Thanks for taking the time to type that up, interesting read. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

Many times, the advantage goes to the guy with the iniative, the situation might well have been reversed in opposite circumstances.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

HellToupee
03-09-2006, 04:20 AM
The ta152 that crashed was shot down by a second tempest flown by Sid Short who engaged the 3rd ta152 where both pilots returned home.

luftluuver
03-09-2006, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by HellToupee:
The ta152 that crashed was shot down by a second tempest flown by Sid Short who engaged the 3rd ta152 where both pilots returned home. In a Tempest book I have that has loss/claims lists for the Tempest, no Ta152s are claimed by the Tempest.

Pinker15
03-09-2006, 07:52 AM
In PF situation what was described above was not be possible because Tempest have here better turn radius even than 109 G6late. But anyway Dora is still better because higher climbrate.

horseback
03-09-2006, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:
The ta152 that crashed was shot down by a second tempest flown by Sid Short who engaged the 3rd ta152 where both pilots returned home. In a Tempest book I have that has loss/claims lists for the Tempest, no Ta152s are claimed by the Tempest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Given the rarity of the Ta 152, it may well have been credited as a "long-nosed or experimental type FW". Allied pilots weren't always intimately aware of enemy aircraft types, particularly during the latter period of the war, when experimental types were occasionally popping up, causing a minor panic, and then disappearing again, due to parts or fuel shortages.

cheers

horseback

dadada1
03-09-2006, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Zen:
A oldie but goodie, I love this story.

You LOVE a story where a pilot was so terrified for his life that he augered into the woods and died a fiery death? All in the name of glorifying your precious 190 series?

You need some counseling. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think your final remark is whats known as "projection".

luftluuver
03-09-2006, 09:42 AM
horseback, how does one mis-identify the long span wing of a 152 with a short span wing of a 'long nose'?

As to this Sid Short, is this an alias because there is no claims by this pilot for any of the 240 claims by the Tempest?

The combat took place on April 14, Mitchell being from 486 Sqd. There is only 2 claims on this date, both by 486, for 190s in the Ludwigslust area. The pilots were Sheddan and Shaw. The claim by Shaw was disallowed.

horseback
03-09-2006, 10:03 AM
I'd love to be able to read Sheddan's and Shaw's claim reports before I came to any conclusions.

However, we need to remember that there were only around 6 or 8 Ta 152s that saw combat, that there were apparently no Allied reports or claims for "Ta 152s", much less "high alt or long winged 190s", and that the Ta 152 is more readily identifiable as a long nosed FW than as a seperate type, especially in the context of a short sharp engagement at low level.

cheers

horseback

whiteladder
03-09-2006, 10:08 AM
Sidney Short was a New Zealander from 486sqn who at least claimed 5 V1 kills. Not sure of other kills.

edit

A slightly larger account here

http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/fragments/fot_best.htm

Brain32
03-09-2006, 10:31 AM
In PF situation what was described above was not be possible because Tempest have here better turn radius even than 109 G6late. But anyway Dora is still better because higher climbrate.
Hehe, in v403 that was true, but in 404 there is no way you will see me turning with ANY 109, especially at speeds lower than 400kmh, As for Ta152, I had a no way out fight with one few days ago so I wanted to see how does the Tempest fare in turnfight with Ta152 so we were doing circles. After 6!!! circles neither of us did gain even a 1m of advantage over the other guy, we just turned and looked at each other constantly in the same position. I wander if he dropped combat flaps(I did), very hairy fight...

DarkCanuck420
03-09-2006, 12:12 PM
interesting read

HayateAce
03-09-2006, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by dadada1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Zen:
A oldie but goodie, I love this story.

You LOVE a story where a pilot was so terrified for his life that he augered into the woods and died a fiery death? All in the name of glorifying your precious 190 series?

You need some counseling. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think your final remark is whats known as "projection". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, this is projection.

http://www.kyokushin.co.jp/gallery/sosai10yrs/10.jpg

Now get some counseling.