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bomb_delivery
06-28-2005, 09:43 AM
I have seen the AI spitfire and seafire set flaps to take off but when I extend the flaps on my plane it sets to landing. How can I set flaps for take off on spitfire and seafire?

Waldo.Pepper
06-28-2005, 09:47 AM
The AI planes are cheating.

In reality Spitfire pilots would occasionaly put wooden blocks in their flaps to allow settings other than full up/down, so they must have been cheating also.

You can't do it unless you cheat also.

If you want to do this set your flaps on a slider to cheat.

MADP
06-28-2005, 09:49 AM
You can't do it manually (why I don't know). If you want T/O flaps, turn on the autopilot. The AP will set T/O flaps for you, then you can turn it off and takeoff yourself. But, you'll need to turn the AP back on once airborne to raise the flaps. Stupid.

The Gladiator is the same way.

Utchoud
06-28-2005, 10:13 AM
Interesting - AFAIK, Spitfires only had flaps for landing, not for the purpose of enhancig lift, but to increase drag and slow the plane down. If that's right, AI Spitfires shouldn't be able to set their flaps to takeoff.

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-28-2005, 10:18 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

There were a few models that HAD variable flaps, but not early on. Only one type was modeled for this sim.

TB

stathem
06-28-2005, 12:14 PM
You don't need flaps to take off in a Spit...

1.JaVA_Hornet
06-28-2005, 12:25 PM
I have a Saitek x52 and i putted the flaps
on a slider. That works!!

spitzfiya
06-29-2005, 01:06 AM
I just use a rotary for the flaps and set it half way for takeoff.

stathem
06-29-2005, 04:18 AM
Here's a thing... we know that Spits do't have aileron trim. Did the long range PR Spits have it? Anyone know?

Waldo.Pepper
06-29-2005, 04:48 AM
Here's a thing... we know that Spits do't have aileron trim. Did the long range PR Spits have it? Anyone know?



Ask and ye shall receive.

Flying Under Fire Volume 2 page 174

Our Mark XI Spitfires were very sensitive to elevator and rudder trim settings. There was no aileron trim. When a pilot reported a wing-heavy condition, the mechanic would take a rubber mallet and a short piece of two-by-four and gently hammer the trailing edge of the aileron against the wood block in the direction necessary to offset the heaviness. Guesswork perhaps, but it worked most of the time; though it was not unknown for it to make the problem worse because the erk had bent the aileron in the wrong direction.

At altitude, the Spitfire was superbly stable, but still extremely agile and responsive. For example, and again at altitude, trimming the aircraft hands-off, cracking the hood open a half-inch, and then sticking a finger out into the slipstream would cause the machine to enter a gentle turn. A finger out the other side, before the turn steepened, would restore it to straight and level flight. As well, leaning forward in the cockpit, when perfectly trimmed, would cause a gentle dive. On a long trip, this kind of entertainment was fun, so long as the pilot didn't fail to keep his eyes open for what could be unfriendly in the sky around him.

The aircraft's agility is best illustrated by its rate-of-roll, excellent for fighters of the day, at 14 degrees per second, progressing to 68 degrees in the later marks of Spitfire. Today's jet fighters are still in that ballpark, sixty years later! The rate-of-roll was so good that the navigation technique, to ensure that the aircraft was directly over the target to be photographed, was to do a quick roll in the few seconds between the reconnaissance photos. Upright, the earth below was blanked out of the pilot's vision by the wings and nose. Upside down, obviously, his line of sight to the target below was unrestricted.

stathem
06-29-2005, 05:23 AM
Many thanks Waldo.

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-29-2005, 06:26 AM
A finger out the window to turn huh...I guess I don't have mine quite "trimmed" then.

Thx Waldo

Platypus_1.JaVA
06-29-2005, 08:16 AM
A common believe is that flaps will increase lift. however, this is not true. Flaps will permit the aircraft a larger angle of attack. The AoA is the angle that the airflow will make with the wing chord. (Chord, I hope that is a proper english word http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

But, flaps on a slider are always handy, especially in aerial combat.

Kernow
06-29-2005, 04:08 PM
Seafires were modified to allow 18 degrees of flap for take-off. Those that were not so modified used the block of wood trick mentioned above.

bolillo_loco
06-29-2005, 08:01 PM
I know real life spits had only two positions, flaps up and flaps down. the flaps were also of the worst design possible, ie split flaps which create the most drag and least lift. P-40s and Fw 190s also used them. with that said every other aircraft has combat flaps so why doesnt the spitfire? of the german, american, and english aircraft in this game few had combat flaps. the corsair, P-51, and P-38 had them, but off the top of my head I am unware of other fighter types that had them, this excludes some japanese types that had them, and russian aircraft??/ what can I say I am a yank so I know nothing about most things, including russian aircraft. I personally think that what ever the real life aircrafts flap settings were and max speeds at which you could use them should be employed in this game.

the only fix is to put your flaps on a slider. if you do not have one on your stick maybe the mouse wheel will work. this has already been mentioned by several people.

msalama
06-30-2005, 01:42 AM
If my memory serves me right both Hurris and early Spits had such a flap system where you could apply flaps down for awhile, and then set the lever to "off", thus enabling intermediate flap positions when needed.

I stand to be corrected, however. But IF the abovementioned is correct then putting flaps on a slider should be OK in the game too...?

raisen
06-30-2005, 04:49 PM
Absolutely, positively..... no flaps needed on take off (not in any book I've read, including the ferry pilots notes which used to be available from Her Majestys Stationary Office). Flaps only when wheels already lowered, in the general run of things anyway.....

Raisen

Flakenstien
06-30-2005, 05:04 PM
Not many aircraft need flaps for take off, I dont use it, I want as much speed on take off not drag.

raisen
06-30-2005, 05:17 PM
too right Flakenstien....

You should find that you get better roll control in that difficult period just barely post take off, if you keep the flaps raised and let your speed climb a tad higher before hauling it off the ground.... and that technique gives a clear advantage when working with the new flight models and the amount of torque modelled, allowing the sim-pilot to correct prop swing etc a little easier when you are at your busiest (outside of combat at least).

Raisen

NonWonderDog
06-30-2005, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
A common believe is that flaps will increase lift. however, this is not true. Flaps will permit the aircraft a larger angle of attack. The AoA is the angle that the airflow will make with the wing chord. (Chord, I hope that is a proper english word http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

While you're technically correct, that's actually *really* misleading. Flaps increase the stalling angle of attack, but that's not all they do. They also radically change the chord line of the wing, increasing the angle of incidence.

Geometrically, deploying flaps (without doing anything else) will increase the angle of attack of the flapped section because of the change in the chord line. This effect is actually greater than the increase in stalling angle of attack. Deploying flaps actually makes the the flapped portion of the wing stall *sooner* in relation to the unflapped portion of the wing than it did before you deployed the flaps.

So, for all practical purposes, the common belief is correct. With the flaps deployed, the wing will create more lift at the same angle of attack as before relative to the fuselage. And face it, the fuselage is the easiest reference to keep track of from the cockpit.

msalama
07-01-2005, 01:21 AM
You chaps are right, there's no real need in IL-2 to use TO flaps because the runways are soooo bloody long. I personally however do use them occasionally with some types, because as you know your Vso - and thus your minimum controllable airspeed too - is lower when flaps are used...

Utchoud
07-01-2005, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Utchoud:
Interesting - AFAIK, Spitfires only had flaps for landing, not for the purpose of enhancig lift, but to increase drag and slow the plane down.


Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
A common believe is that flaps will increase lift. however, this is not true. Flaps will permit the aircraft a larger angle of attack. The AoA is the angle that the airflow will make with the wing chord. (Chord, I hope that is a proper english word http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Of course you're right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Thank you, you helped me to clarify this thing for myself.