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View Full Version : OT: Tank T-72: Balkans in Fire English demo



VMF-214_HaVoK
07-17-2005, 02:36 PM
I seen a few people talk about this game, just thought I would let them know the English version of the demo has been released. http://www.3dgamers.com/games/tankt72/downloads/

nakamura_kenji
07-17-2005, 02:53 PM
i not huge impress more disapointed honest i find the simulation part interesting and quite nice so far i just done little driving about and it seem realistic.

but i find graphics incredibly ugly they very barren, i thought when saw early dev pic this thought meant improve but it seem not also the model of t-72 itslef seem incorrect some howi think it chassis might be to short or the turret is incorrect position here something odd i not put finger on. id also like know polygon count on veihcles be honest if over 3000 3d modeler should be brought out and shot as they not very well model at all seem lack very much detail. also bump map effect on paint strange make look like tank made from stone which find strange.

MEGILE
07-17-2005, 05:58 PM
LOL Kenji.. sounds like you weren't impressed.

nakamura_kenji
07-17-2005, 06:58 PM
i a 3d modeler and specialise in tanks of the russian variety ^_^

PlaneEater
07-17-2005, 07:01 PM
I'm sure the simulation aspect is well researched and relatively well made, but they needed to find a different setting.

Playing a Serbian tanker, helping commit ethnic genocide, is not acceptable.

There's a reason there aren't games where you play as the Waffen SS and gas Jews to gain points, or play as the US Cavalry and slaughter American Indian villages--men, women, children, and elders--to climb the ranks.

nakamura_kenji
07-17-2005, 07:05 PM
"Playing a Serbian tanker, helping commit ethnic genocide, is not acceptable."

i not see anything like that in game honest i think it meant be a fictional war with tank v tank i not even think there infantry to shoot at as not see any yet but maybe wrong as i read very little about just thought would try see how well tank done

Enforcer572005
07-17-2005, 07:20 PM
I like Kenji's atttude...make em dig thier own grave, then one round in the head. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I like a man who knows what he believes...

we'd love to see some of your work if you ever can post a few things....was it by chance you who made the Japanese cruiser i saw a screenshot of? many of us are truly fascinated by any insights you can give. your observations are interesting. as well as entertaining... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

nakamura_kenji
07-17-2005, 07:25 PM
my current project i working on t-62 series
http://www.sga-clan.de/bisforums/t62a.jpg
^that is early picture gunner night sight periscope is missing along with night time formation lights
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/Untitled-254464.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/t-26comp.jpg
they currently work in progress so few bit still need tidy and fix polygon count is 4000 on primary lod though if delete dshk which i not make it 3500, i going make own so not use so many

here is balkans t-55 as comparison only thing it has i not is bump mapping other that model is very ugly
http://www.battlefront.com/products/t72/screenshots/images/1t72_war10.jpg

here is bmd-1 model i make also ^_^
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/BMD.jpg
oh and a chieften also
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/cheiften324.jpg

Enforcer572005
07-19-2005, 12:39 AM
wow, im impressed. Is this for a sim project, or one that already exists? Im curious as to the context of these incredible renditions. Ive always been interested in armor, and its frustrating that there are no good ww2 (or even modern) tank sims that I know of. Ive got an old tamiya model of the CHieftan, and that is very accurate.

The best one I ever played was Panzer commander by ubi. A modern version of that would be great, and would certainly do well in sales, especially if they made the brakes work-that was about the only defect in the original. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

joeap
07-19-2005, 03:30 AM
Kenji, that is fabulous work. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif The shot from the "Balkans on Fire" sim is really ugly in comparison. Think I will give this sim a skip.

We want a sim with your work!!!

LEXX_Luthor
07-19-2005, 03:54 AM
Kenji T-62 looks great. Balkan's T-55 looks great. I am not a modder, and through the eyes of a potential customer, Balkan's T-55 looks great! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Metox2005
07-19-2005, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by PlaneEater:
I'm sure the simulation aspect is well researched and relatively well made, but they needed to find a different setting.

Playing a Serbian tanker, helping commit ethnic genocide, is not acceptable.

There's a reason there aren't games where you play as the Waffen SS and gas Jews to gain points, or play as the US Cavalry and slaughter American Indian villages--men, women, children, and elders--to climb the ranks.

PlaneEater, do not believe everything TV box tells you. Serbia is one of the countries with the largest number of refugees and displaced poeple in the world. Actually, almost all Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Croatia and Kosovo. And yet, you believe in something else. Power of the media is enormous.

If you ever decide to dig into the history of the ex-Yugoslav conflict, you will be amazed to find out how you own media lied you big time.

nakamura_kenji
07-19-2005, 06:02 AM
I nothing special there many other talented people i work with. what see is all own work. I work member of red hammer studios which work on operation flashpoint, tanks are not as realistic as would like but i try best with in game limitations to get acurate as possible. Hopefully things more realistic with armed assualt and ofp sequel. I just amateur i not get paid anything though was offer place on one of the VBS-1(military training version) development teams but i prefer make addons free so people not have to pay ^_^. one thing wish is that discover il-2 earlier so could have made plane for as few missing would like fly p_q.

ps anyone got good picture of t-62 interior?

Ruy Horta
07-19-2005, 01:00 PM
of course most will hate me for it, but I cannot stop myself from loving post war Soviet tank design (in terms of shape).

The T-54/55 is a classic!

Every time I watch "The Beast of War", there is a big smile on my face, poor mujis or not...(although love for the Mujis will have changed after 9/11 I would think).

Best opening scene in a war movie ever, especially when the tanks shoot and there is a pressure path blowing across the dust.

...you become a hero of the SU!

LEXX_Luthor
07-19-2005, 04:10 PM
Ya, The Beast is what I thought it was called. Fascinating "antiwar" movie from the Eastern side.

Instead of Balkans, it might have been more interesting if they had made a fictional Western Europe Cold War turn hot scenario but if they did it right and paid attention to what they were doing. The potential for NATO addons for international sales would be Awsum as FB addons has shown, as well as extending the sim forward and back in time covering many more NATO and Soviet battlefield weapons.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-19-2005, 06:40 PM
I think I saw that movie some time ago but for the life of me I can't recall correctly. Was there a section in the movie where the tank hides underwater?

LEXX_Luthor
07-19-2005, 07:18 PM
No, but it does hide under rocks near the end. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-20-2005, 12:48 PM
Cheers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif although that leads me to my next question is there another movie made about another Russian tank crew? Perhaps I just imagined it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

LEXX_Luthor
07-20-2005, 04:00 PM
You can Google it. I saw The Beast. It was a Czech made movie. Czech it out.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-20-2005, 04:02 PM
rgr that

Atomic_Marten
07-20-2005, 04:08 PM
I am aware that Operation Flashpoint was game of different genre, but must say that game had extra quality. One of those games that you play long, and remember long after you played it..

I'm not really informed about this kind of games is outhere anything similar to Op.Flashpoint?(IMO what is FB for flight sims that is Op.Flashpoint to FPSs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

nakamura_kenji
07-20-2005, 04:20 PM
not that know of but bis making an update version of call Armed Assualt which bit is flashpoint 1.5 that be release about christmas. the game with no name (codemasters holds rights to the flashpoint name) will be release end of 2006

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-20-2005, 04:30 PM
Nothing that fits the criteria of a Tank sim exists that I know of but

Band of Brothers shows some promise once they get the SDK released

Hidden and dangerous 2 plus the expansion Sabre squadron has been about the only Ground based (for the most part)WW2 game I have stuck with but it is limited due to a lack of an SDK

Atomic_Marten
07-20-2005, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by nakamura_kenji:
not that know of but bis making an update version of call Armed Assualt which bit is flashpoint 1.5 that be release about christmas. the game with no name (codemasters holds rights to the flashpoint name) will be release end of 2006

Excellent news. Thanks.
Will try internet lurking about this issue a bit.
http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/smileys/biggrin.gif

nakamura_kenji
07-20-2005, 05:05 PM
http://www.armedassault.com/ most screen shot early alpha but sound good ^_^

some newer screen

http://www.bistudio.com/pics/games/aa_screen3.jpg
http://www.bistudio.com/pics/games/aa_screen4.jpg
http://www.bistudio.com/pics/games/aa_screen5.jpg
http://www.bistudio.com/pics/games/aa_screen6.jpg

Enforcer572005
07-21-2005, 01:02 AM
I wonder why there have been so few tank sims the past 3 yrs, and especially why there are no ww2 tank sims currently marketed...i mean a real tank sim, like Panzer commander, which was great, except for the brakes taht wouldnt work and the forrests taht were basically sheets with trees painted on them.

it was pretty advanced for its time, had a good misn editor, and you could make your own terrain. had almost as many tanks as FB has planes. im surprise ubi hasnt marketed a modern version of it.

they outta hire kenji to work on it.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tipo_Man
07-21-2005, 03:09 AM
The game is very good and reallistic.
The dev team has payed great attention to tanks armour and armour penetration. After each battle you can inspect where exactly you have hit the target, what kind of damage your round has produced, etc. Ricochets are also modeled. Its amasing to see a round ricochet from the thick armour of a T-72 and
destroy a BRDM standing nearby.
Damage modelling is also very detailed. You can kill crew members of an enemy, that really affects their behavior. You can damage different parts, which depends on where you have hit.

Kenji, sorry , but I like tank modelling in Balkans on Fire much more than the pics you've posted.

Yesterday I had a great battle, trying with my ambushed T-55 to stop an enemy column of T-72 and T-55. I could hit several times the T-72 from 1800meter with SABOTs, but it couldn't penetrate its front armour, although they still suffered some damage. I then tried with HEAT rounds, although due to their much lower muzzle velocity and the wind it was very hard to hit a moving target at 1600meters. Hit one T-72, which stopped. The others suddenly turned aside and offered their board, which was a chance I couldn't miss. Switched again to SABOTs and scored several hits in the second T-72. It stopped and I could see crew coming out of it. The first T-72 suddenly appeaered behind a hill moving very quickly and fired
a guided rocket to me. I shot a round but had wrongly estimated the range and missed. The rocket hit me in fron left side, killing my driver, but the rest of the crew was alive, probably due to the fact I have left hatches open, which improves you chances of survival when hit by e HEAT round.
I fired a second SABOT round at about 800meters, which hit the T-72 in the track. The tank stopped and turned 90 degrees toworads the damaged track. It fired and missed. Then it was my turn again.
Fired and hit him in the board just below the turret. The again, then aimed for the engine. That hit turned the tank on fire and the crew started to abandon it.
Well I was just preparing to fire a HE round to kill the survining crew members when something hit my tank...
Later I could check my hits in the debrief. It appeared that the first T-72 was actually crippled with a dead engine and dead driver and gunner, thats why it stopped. But its commander was alive and continued shooting, and eventually hit me...
So tonight I plan to replay the mission again

SeaFireLIV
07-21-2005, 03:22 AM
That does sound very good, Tipo_Man. The last good modern tank-sim I had was M1 Tank platoon 2 which I really liked, but you never had people bailing a tank when hit.

I`ll try the demo so i know what it`s really like.

Shingszhao
07-21-2005, 03:43 AM
...its frustrating that there are no good ww2 (or even modern) tank sims that I know of.

Give Steel Beasts a try. The eye-candy isn't much, but you'll forget all about that the moment you start playing.

Go to: http://www.steelbeasts.com

You'll find the fora there, as well as purchasing info.


Shing

Feathered_IV
07-21-2005, 04:37 AM
Great work Kenji! I'm really impressed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ploughman
07-21-2005, 04:38 AM
Oh No! Not another, better, Operation Flashpoint. That game's worse than heroin. I finally had to throw it out I was spending so much time on it.

Just as I was getting my life back together another one comes along...jeez.

ImpStarDuece
07-21-2005, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Nothing that fits the criteria of a Tank sim exists that I know of but


Try Steel Beasts. Its the IL2 of the armoured combat world. While it is a little dated in terms of graphics, the guy that is in charge of development is the biggest tank nut I have ever come across on the internet. In fact he has such an encylopediac knowledge of thing with tracks that it makes most of us look like we merely have a passing interest in old planes.

The detail of operation, armour estimates, crew function are all modeled to incredible detail. SBPro was released a while ago as an upgrade with better C-and-C options and there is also a specialised version which is used a a military tank and armour trainer for over 20 nations.

Steel Beasts 2 is due out in about 6-8 months from what I hear.

jugent
07-21-2005, 10:55 AM
I have the highest opinion about soviet tank design. They where the first to smoothbore the barell, first with APFSDS.
But the maker of this game has been mis-informed or will mis-inform.
I have the demoverion and wont buy the real thing if it wont be better.
Faults;
The T-72 hasnt got FLIR and electronic light-magnifier, and some got active IR if this isnt the latest brand of T-72. It reloads much faster, hasnt got a digitalized battlecontrol unit with maps targets etc.
It has more rounds to its mg.
The laser rangefinder has got a separate button for rangefinding so that u can make firepreparations.

There are many bugs in the game but it is perhaps fixed in the pay-version.

About the enemy
In the singelmission dogfight the Leo1 which look much similar to a Leo2 dont fire back, and be defeated with the MG of the T-72.

It reminds me about Me-109 vs I-16 in IL2, the first version.

Tipo_Man
07-21-2005, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by jugent:
Faults;
The T-72 hasnt got FLIR and electronic light-magnifier, and some got active IR if this isnt the latest brand of T-72. It reloads much faster, hasnt got a digitalized battlecontrol unit with maps targets etc.
It has more rounds to its mg.
The laser rangefinder has got a separate button for rangefinding so that u can make firepreparations.

There are many bugs in the game but it is perhaps fixed in the pay-version.

About the enemy
In the singelmission dogfight the Leo1 which look much similar to a Leo2 dont fire back, and be defeated with the MG of the T-72.

It reminds me about Me-109 vs I-16 in IL2, the first version.

They've modelled the T-72 which was in use in Serbia in 90's. Its absoluetly historically correct in that respect. The T-72 has some IR night vision capabilities, a laser rangefinder and a ballictic computer. That's all of it's "modern" systems in the game.
But I'm much more interested in earlier tanks like T-34-85 and T-55. It's much more satisfactory to hit a moving target at 1800m relying only on an optical sight...
I've never experienced the bugs you describe, maybe the demo you played is quite old.

crazyivan1970
07-21-2005, 04:01 PM
My biggest beef with T-72BOF is that performance hit is not justified by visual quality. I can play BF2 which looks by far better with ease on pretty high settings...while this one...ahem. Also there are numerious memory leaks and all other funny stuff. my only hope that in final release and maybe following patches they will make it better. Other then that...finally, a tank sim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

nakamura_kenji
07-21-2005, 05:41 PM
wasnt serbian t-72 called the m84? also t-72B was very often fitted with 1st ERA past 1980s though sometime these classifed by t-72BV defintion so i let that go. also t-72B first model to have the dolly parton armour up armoured turret look at model it not seem present look more like t-72A turret.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/t-80-DDST8407835_JPG.jpg

I also notice that the tank model is out of portion with real life tank it turret seem to high and the chasis not long enough i believe.


ps: i only person wonder where bmp-1/bmp-2 is ???0_0??? even though they mtlb

jugent
07-22-2005, 02:42 AM
So you say that a T-72 has less than 500 mg-rounds?
And that that the laser rangefinders don€t work separately, only measures the range while u load, and that it takes approx 12 sec to load a shell?
As far as i know the T-72 got a "lowlight TV" for gunner and the active IR for the driver.
The T-72 in the game looks as it got a thermal sight like the one in Abram€s, Leo and Challenger.
According to the armament of the republican guard in Iraq, the tungsten APFSDS didn€t penetrate the Abram€s or the Challenger of the Anglo/US forces.

There are reports from Kuwait of hits from distance of 500m in the turrets that didn€t penetrate.

In the demo-game you can take out the Leo with the MG.
It seems as this game is made with only a little effort to achieve realism

nakamura_kenji
07-22-2005, 06:26 AM
the iraqi t-72 was an export t-72M1 or there own self made asad babel(sorry cant spell)they were terrible tanks most werent fitted with ir equipment but instead used optical stadiometric range finders. The iraqis i believe also made there own ammo based on old russian design that could only achieve 400mm penetration on a good day whgere as a modern 125mm russian or ukraiian round can achieve 900mm if not more. one thing everyone forgets is that iraqi t-72s were only really similar in looks to the russian models but no were not close in performance.

Recon_609IAP
07-22-2005, 06:45 AM
call Armed Assualt which bit is flashpoint 1.5 that be release about christmas.

Is this a new game or an addon? I hope new game!!

I will buy the minute it hits the shelves http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

nakamura_kenji
07-22-2005, 07:02 AM
its a new game its a semi squeal "the game with know name" being proper squel

Capt_Haddock
07-22-2005, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Oh No! Not another, better, Operation Flashpoint. That game's worse than heroin. I finally had to throw it out I was spending so much time on it.

Just as I was getting my life back together another one comes along...jeez.

So true... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh2.jpg

GAU-8
07-22-2005, 10:07 PM
some of you have made reference to "the beast of war" movie... but say it is Czech made


this is not the same movie starring jason patrick... called "the beast", is it??


an excellent movie (the beast) i thought, allthough i havent a clue about the realism of setting/actions that happened.. but i loved the scenery music, and the plot in general. the two movies are not the same, correct??

jarink
07-22-2005, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by nakamura_kenji:
The iraqis i believe also made there own ammo based on old russian design that could only achieve 400mm penetration on a good day whgere as a modern 125mm russian or ukraiian round can achieve 900mm if not more. one thing everyone forgets is that iraqi t-72s were only really similar in looks to the russian models but no were not close in performance.

All the tank ammo I saw there in '91 (100mm, 115mm and 125mm) was marked in Cyrillic. GIven what I saw of the Iraqi storage and maintenance procedures, I'm sure it was in a degraded condition that surely led to poor ballistics and many duds. In fact, the only ordnance I saw that was not of Soviet origin was small arms. And some of that was in cases marked "Jordan Army". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

From all the formal and informal sources I had (Company supply Sergants and former Green Beanie Platoon Leaders are great at scrounging news and info!) indicated no M1s were penetrated by T-72 ammo, though several were hit. There were some publicized (and unpublicized) friendly-fire incidents where M1s were hit and penetrated by other M1s, though (105mm and 120mm).

ImpStarDuece
07-23-2005, 01:23 AM
The only M1A1 (or maybe it was a M1A1HA) armour defeats that I heard about in GW1 (or GW2 really, if you think about it)were from an Iraqui T-62 that managed a few side hits by staying hull down and alowing a collumn of M1s to pass it. Even then the blow out panels allowed the M1 to stay operational and no crew members were seriously injured.

I'll see if I can dig up the relevant reports. Aparently the T-62 engaged during the daylight/twilight transition period which affected visibility and thermals, making it hard to pick up.

ImpStarDuece
07-23-2005, 01:29 AM
Can't find the report. I think it was on Tank-Net.org, but I really don't have the time to search it out.

One tidbit I did find though. There were 18 Abrams put out of action by enemy fire during the first Coalition invasion of Iraq. 9 of these were 'service repariable' i.e. they were fixed and sent back into the field, while the other 9 were totally withdrawn from service.

What I don't have is a break-down of how these were put out of action; mines, tanks, missiles, RPGs, other.

Still, if you consider that more than 1800 Abrams were deployed in 1991, thats a less than 1% loss rate.

nakamura_kenji
07-23-2005, 04:00 AM
"
All the tank ammo I saw there in '91 (100mm, 115mm and 125mm) was marked in Cyrillic. GIven what I saw of the Iraqi storage and maintenance procedures, I'm sure it was in a degraded condition that surely led to poor ballistics and many duds. In fact, the only ordnance I saw that was not of Soviet origin was small arms. And some of that was in cases marked "Jordan Army". Surprised

From all the formal and informal sources I had (Company supply Sergants and former Green Beanie Platoon Leaders are great at scrounging news and info!) indicated no M1s were penetrated by T-72 ammo, though several were hit. There were some publicized (and unpublicized) friendly-fire incidents where M1s were hit and penetrated by other M1s, though (105mm and 120mm)."

thank for that bit information i wasnt sure if they bought ammo or made own some sources said one thing and some opposite. i read about/seen pcture of abrams hit by 120mm and then hit with maverick to prevent capture