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Breeze147
01-05-2006, 06:17 AM
File this under "Who Cares".

I'm done with crashing every time I land, trying to muscle planes into the air on takeoff, inputting full trim and still having plane do left turns in the air, firing at planes that I have completely outmanuvered and having my nose swing 30 degrees from the recoil, etc.

All the while that a real immersion killer, having my engine shot out with one .50 round from a tail gunner 500 meters away, goes unaddressed.

3.04 for me. Sorry all you 4.02 campaign builders and map makers. I will not be sampling your wares. I have more than enough planes to fly, don't need new ones.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gifat 4.02

Breeze147
01-05-2006, 06:17 AM
File this under "Who Cares".

I'm done with crashing every time I land, trying to muscle planes into the air on takeoff, inputting full trim and still having plane do left turns in the air, firing at planes that I have completely outmanuvered and having my nose swing 30 degrees from the recoil, etc.

All the while that a real immersion killer, having my engine shot out with one .50 round from a tail gunner 500 meters away, goes unaddressed.

3.04 for me. Sorry all you 4.02 campaign builders and map makers. I will not be sampling your wares. I have more than enough planes to fly, don't need new ones.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gifat 4.02

SeaFireLIV
01-05-2006, 06:24 AM
Well, I`m having a great time with 4.02m. At first it was a little weird, but I feel I `understand` the aircraft now and my improved kills recently show this.... or maybe it`s my new system.

Whatever, a rest is often the cure to getting back in the saddle.

Hristo_
01-05-2006, 06:31 AM
What exactly is wrong with 4.02 ?

I just started playing last week after months off. Didn't notice too much change.

OldMan____
01-05-2006, 06:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
File this under "Who Cares".

I'm done with crashing every time I land, trying to muscle planes into the air on takeoff, inputting full trim and still having plane do left turns in the air, firing at planes that I have completely outmanuvered and having my nose swing 30 degrees from the recoil, etc.

All the while that a real immersion killer, having my engine shot out with one .50 round from a tail gunner 500 meters away, goes unaddressed.

3.04 for me. Sorry all you 4.02 campaign builders and map makers. I will not be sampling your wares. I have more than enough planes to fly, don't need new ones.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gifat 4.02 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

402 has some minor issues of many tipes. Most people refer them as whoble as a whole, but i think is not that simple. I had two problems, one soved cahngind used maisn dll and other by stop using the rudder pedal set and using only a single jystick (x45), that last one improved greatly the smoothness of controls and make som weird input interferences go away.

Tooz_69GIAP
01-05-2006, 06:57 AM
Well, I've found that as long as I avoid American fighters (except the P-40 and P-38) and stay away from Spitfires, I get on fine flying fighters. But then, I fly bombers most of the time anyway!

Pig_Mac
01-05-2006, 07:44 AM
I still like 4.02 a lot! But trying to adapt from my MSFFB2 to a cougar i have a 30% crash rating during landings. From crashlanding only from pure stupidity, damage or online lag. It's only a matter of getting used to it.

I'm thinking of only using my Cougar stick as button bay, since in this game it's inferior to the MSFFB2. Anyone saying otherwise havn't gotten their paws on this superb piece of hardware for a long enough time.

PS. you can remove most of the unwanted forces manually.

han freak solo
01-05-2006, 07:59 AM
It took flying a Finnish Brewster campaign with 4.02 to learn how to land in 4.02.

I used to attempt to stall land with horrible results. Then I saw a video link someone posted with a real Bf-109 in it. That Bf-109 appeared to fly in to a landing with some power left on.

That's what I do now for just about everything. I touch down flyin' with 20%-30% power. The landing roll is a touch longer, but my success rate is very high with less "springs in the grass".

BTW, 4.02 is just fine, IMO.

Pig_Mac
01-05-2006, 08:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It took flying a Finnish Brewster campaign with 4.02 to learn how to land in 4.02. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hehe.. That one ain't easy to land even after 20 tries in a row. I wish you could call tower and ask them to put up a net to catch you in, instead of almost dying from the fear of landing it.

FluffyDucks
01-05-2006, 08:06 AM
Ahhh...the wobble-bug strikes again!!!!
See this thread on SimHQ for some fixes(and lots of BS http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif):

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=144;t=001612 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=001612)


There are SEVERAL reported fixes, try them and see how you get on! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HotelBushranger
01-05-2006, 08:11 AM
I've never had any problems with 4.02. If you can't land, perhaps all you need is some more stick time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif And I haven't really noticed any of the discussed changes to 4.02 from 4.01, I just fly till I get the nack of it. Beats discussing it for days, just get in the air! Also, I feel the planes are more realistic, i.e. I can actually feel their weights, which is beaut http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Unknown-Pilot
01-05-2006, 08:21 AM
Landing difficult in 4.02? I hadn't noticed. It's a little more sensitive, but nothing drastic. Just have to watch the bounce a bit more is all.

Been using a Cougar since it was first released. It pwnz any plastic cr@p j/s, especially FF j/s's. Just takes getting used to.

han freak solo
01-05-2006, 08:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xallo_72:
Hehe.. That one ain't easy to land even after 20 tries in a row. I wish you could call tower and ask them to put up a net to catch you in, instead of almost dying from the fear of landing it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

han freak solo
01-05-2006, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
Beats discussing it for days, just get in the air! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can I get a "Hell Yeah!"?

Pig_Mac
01-05-2006, 09:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Can I get a "Hell Yeah!"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hell Yeah!

MLudner
01-05-2006, 09:49 AM
Hell yeah!

I've landed so smoothly in 4.02 that I did not even realize my gear were on the ground at first. Take-offs are not a serious problem; I just manage the torque with my rudder pedals then up in the air, junior birdman.

If I'm operating an unfamiliar type with a difficult approach pattern I can have some problems on landing, but after a little practice in the type - B-25's for example - I do fine. I have a free-flight mission on OnLineIsland6 and that base on the northeast corner of the island is the one I assigned to B-25's. Take-off is toward the sea, approach is from inland. The mountains west and south make approach in B-25 a bit hairy as you have to approach in a steep dive skimming hill tops all the way down. I crashed a couple of times, then practiced landing on a base with an easier approach (When I first tried it I only had about .5 hours flying time in a B-25). Once I had landed safely on that one a couple of times I was able to come diving down on Y-31 and safely land.

Point being: Practice.

VW-IceFire
01-05-2006, 09:56 AM
I'm hoping 4.03 is more like 4.01 than 4.02. I think many have said that. Do you need to go all the way back to 3.04? I find 3.04 is like flying on rails compared to what we have now...but what we have now is not as fun.

SeaFireLIV
01-05-2006, 10:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
Hell yeah!

I've landed so smoothly in 4.02 that I did not even realize my gear were on the ground at first. Take-offs are not a serious problem; I just manage the torque with my rudder pedals then up in the air, junior birdman.
Practice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

er... Hell, yes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Like you I`m finding taking off and landing much easier. Landings are becoming nice and smooth. I also find it`s about setting your rudders right and using them gently to help offset that `waviness`. Also, calmness, alertness and care every step of the way. It`ll punish you if you become lazy as I have done.

I also recommend practise offline, as I`ve been doing a lot of since Christmas.

p-11.cAce
01-05-2006, 11:28 AM
I still like the roll inertia better in 4.01 - I feel like the planes have less mass in .02 but prob just me. I say install the patch you like the best and leave the subject alone. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Werg78
01-05-2006, 11:55 AM
the only issue from the first posts list i can agree on is the $%%! sniper gunner AI - but that issue is present in 3.04m as well so why go back?.

taking off & landing is pretty easy after you got adjusted to the new flightmodel. about the shooting part... well im afraid the main cause for my poor accuracy is my ****ty aim :-)

Lucius_Esox
01-05-2006, 12:00 PM
When 4.02 came out I remember someone posting that that was it!!! They were giving up for good.. As you said,,, who cares.. Trouble is you probably will.

Later patches with extra planes/ features etc will have the 4.02+ FM. Plus as you said for offline play, campaigns etc.

I didn't like the patch to begin with and like many couldn't hit a barn door after it. Don't even think about it now and there is no difference in my KD ratio on or offline now, even after a j/stick change.

My advice for what it's worth,,, fly more. Harsh I know but everyone else has got used to it..

Breeze147
01-05-2006, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viking-S:
€œMost pilots have some sort of trouble mastering the art of landing an aeroplane but my personal problem, and I mean problem, is taking of. I am just totally unable to control the swing and I career all over the airfield in ever-increasing ugly great swerves. No matter how hard I try to I just cannot keep the beastly aeroplane straight and, when things appear to be getting no better and I feel I am not making the progress that I should, I start to worry.
Surely I am going to master this take-off problem and become a pilot?
By now, most of us on the course have the sense to realize that we have a job on our hands. As a bunch of young men dedicated to the same cause, we are, even at this very early stage, becoming a closely knit and a sense of comradeship is building up.
Yesterday, a chap called Hilton was suspended. The first Bowler Hat. For what, exactly, nobody knew or asked. He just faded away. He€d nor been much of a mixer and nobody got on with him that well. It shook us all bit, tough.
After all, we€ve only been here for just over three weeks. It doesn€t take them long to make up their minds. Certainly they mean what they say about the weeding-out process.
If only I can get over the solo hurdle. Some people never catch on to the art of flying, however much they try. I can€t even keep straight on take-off. I just haven€t got the knack.
I lie awake at night thinking about it. The thought of a Bowler Hat haunts me.€



From Geoffrey Wellum€s €œFirst Light€.

Why should it be any easier for us? Are we looking for a game or a simulation?
How many hours do we need to master the art of flying in this simulation? If any kid can just hop in to any fighter and take of and be an ace the same day I say this is not for me as I wants to know and feel what it was that young Wellum was experiencing

Bring on reality!

Viking </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very well put. I don't want to be Hilton. You have convinced me put 4.02 back on again. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-05-2006, 12:39 PM
Yea. the community helps out one of its own! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Da_Godfatha
01-05-2006, 12:53 PM
You have alot of VERY good points. This is a very bad patch. It does nothing for the part-time players. And, I think it scares alot of potential new players away. Most of the ones here who say this is a "great patch", and "learn to fly!", usually fly the La-7, Yak-3, Spitfire, or some other UFO plane. Sad to say, but they also fly Wonder-Woman style.

Like the man said, stay away from the American fighters (except for the P-40 or P-38). Maybe, just maybe, a patch will come out and make it a more playable.

Note: Onwhine is NOT the Bees-Knees Dudes. Some of us like to play Offwhine too ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

han freak solo
01-05-2006, 01:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
Most of the ones here who say this is a "great patch", and "learn to fly!", usually fly the La-7, Yak-3, Spitfire, or some other UFO plane. Sad to say, but they also fly Wonder-Woman style. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the Spit is a difficult beast in 4.02. Especially landing. I have done what Clint Eastwood said in the movie Heartbreak Ridge, "Adapt and Overcome".

Plus, Wonder Woman style flyin' sucks with TrackIr use, too hard to keep oriented.

I think many people here "fly" a wide variety of types, I know I do. Fer instance....

http://www.lssdigital.com/HFScampaigns.jpg

han freak solo
01-05-2006, 01:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
Very well put. I don't want to be Hilton. You have convinced me put 4.02 back on again. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that deserves another . . .

Hell Yeah!!

MLudner
01-05-2006, 01:39 PM
Hell, yeah!

Unknown-Pilot
01-05-2006, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
You have alot of VERY good points. This is a very bad patch. It does nothing for the part-time players. And, I think it scares alot of potential new players away. Most of the ones here who say this is a "great patch", and "learn to fly!", usually fly the La-7, Yak-3, Spitfire, or some other UFO plane. Sad to say, but they also fly Wonder-Woman style.

Like the man said, stay away from the American fighters (except for the P-40 or P-38). Maybe, just maybe, a patch will come out and make it a more playable.

Note: Onwhine is NOT the Bees-Knees Dudes. Some of us like to play Offwhine too ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, basically, you're accusing people who don't have a problem with the patch, of flying "arcade", but you yourself hate the patch, because you want it more arcade.....

FWIW - I don't often fly the Yak3 or La7, though I do occasionally like to, I find planes like that spoil me, and actually MUCH prefer to shoot down the commie crates rather than fly them. Particularly with US planes (LW planes being a close second). And I tend to gravitate toward the P-47 the most (and 190 on LW).

And like HFS, I can't use WW-view. It's a total immersion killer and disorienting. I need to have the cockpit on. (no TiR here either)

arjisme
01-05-2006, 01:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
You have alot of VERY good points. This is a very bad patch. It does nothing for the part-time players. And, I think it scares alot of potential new players away. Most of the ones here who say this is a "great patch", and "learn to fly!", usually fly the La-7, Yak-3, Spitfire, or some other UFO plane. Sad to say, but they also fly Wonder-Woman style.

Like the man said, stay away from the American fighters (except for the P-40 or P-38). Maybe, just maybe, a patch will come out and make it a more playable.

Note: Onwhine is NOT the Bees-Knees Dudes. Some of us like to play Offwhine too ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the patch is fine. I've not had any of the problems the OP listed, except the sharp-shooting enemy bomber and rear gunners! I think flying in 4.02m is quite easy, including takeoffs and landings. And gunnery seems pretty much the same to me as in previous patches too.

Your generalizations don't apply to me. I fly in cockpit exclusively. Been flying the Battle of Britain campaign the last few weeks, flying the Hurricane (is it a UFO?). I like to fly almost anything if doing a QMB -- been enjoying FW-190's recently, but also P-47, P-51, P-38, and sometimes US Navy vs. Zeros (either side). I still have not gotten around to flying online at all.

As to scaring off new players, doesn't adjusting the settings to Easy help introduce folks to the game?

MLudner
01-05-2006, 02:17 PM
Likewise, I always fly cockpit on, full-real. The only time I have ever flown no cockpit was during an unopposed speed-test.

I fly P-51's, P-47's, P-39's and A-20's (Along with P-40's and P-38's) regularly with nary a problem. There is no reason to avoid them.

Werg78
01-05-2006, 02:39 PM
you also have to keep in mind that this is the 1st patch after the new flightmodel was introduced in 4.01m. it is supposed to be a BETA of the BoB flightmodel. whatever nasty problems 4.02m _might_ have im sure this is not the final patch fm-wise.

blakduk
01-05-2006, 05:36 PM
Personally i like v4.02 very much. It feels more 'chaotic' and you need to be constantly vigilant to keeping your AC in the air. I also find i have to use the rudder more to keep control, especially during takeoff, and i need to be more careful with my throttle during landing.
I might be mistaken, but have the explosions on the water been remodelled with 4.02? They really look fantastic now but i've been messing around with my graphic settings so much i'm not sure.

carguy_
01-05-2006, 06:38 PM
God,please make Oleg bring back 3.01 dots

or maybe make all planes wear white skins

or maybe make all summer maps dissapear http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2006, 07:01 PM
Breeze, stick with it. Its not that bad. It could be the joystick (mine is sooooo smooth and for 20$ its ridiculous). Also, try Easy settings if you must until you get your feets wet again.

hehe this is flight sim webboard Frustration ...

Da_Godfatha:; <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This is a very bad patch. It does nothing for the part-time players. And, I think it scares alot of potential new players away. Most of the ones here who say this is a "great patch", and "learn to fly!", usually fly the La-7, Yak-3, Spitfire, or some other UFO plane. Sad to say, but they also fly Wonder-Woman style. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I never fly any 1944 arcade dogfight game planes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Or 1945 either.
I never fly Wonder Woman (cockpit off).

I do fly the old I-16 and CR.42 -- finally some real flight sim aircraft ... and 4.02 New FM is so Easy especially with elevator trim mapped to mousewheel. Shucks, I-16 doesn't even have any trim at all. MiG-3 is a tad difficult at low speeds, and it needs to be made alot more difficult. Oleg?

I bet the expensive Fancy Joystick is causing the problems here. I use 20$ Saitek Cyborg Graphite which is the best and most realistic joystick made for World War 2 flight simming. You can get it at (yuck) WalMarts for 15 or 20 dollars.

Most massive stick made.

Stick-top throw distance, side to side and forware and back -- of 6 inches -- the largest of any common joystick made (measure yours). The tiny throw distance of the expensive Fancy Joysticks may be causing 4.02 New FM problems. Saitek's Graphite is smooth because you can move the very tall stick much farther.

Most massive base made for any joystick.

Largest and most easily used stick top buttons, but there are only 3 buttons, which is realistic for a WW2 control stick.

Largest and most smooth throttle made for any joystick.

Best, it doesn't even come with any Fancy Software. Plug it in and it just works.

Maybe (?) this is why 4.02 New FM feels so good but is so easy -- a basic stick. More 4.02 New FM http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2006, 07:14 PM
Oh, and 4.02 New FM feels best in planes that suffer from negative gee engine cut~out. I ~love~ it!! Do the I-16 and CR.42 thing, its a whole new flight simming lifestyle. But, ya'll may need a 20$ Saitek Cyborg Graphite.

wayno7777
01-05-2006, 07:33 PM
Hey Lexx, I have that stick and agree with you. The only thing that bothers me about 4.02 is that I'm having to experiment to find the best settings for the stick. As for the flying, it seems easier. There are other little issues, but they get covered well so no point in bringing them up again....

AB_Mormac
01-05-2006, 09:04 PM
Are you talking about Wobbles or yaw oscillations.Because we all know that in a real airplane when you use the rudder and stop, the nose of the plane,it keeps on swaying back and forth for awhile.Yah Right the yaw oscillations in the game are out of WACK.
The truth is Oleg has to do some fine tuning to this sim.
The truth is that you all want a real flight sim and think the yaw oscillations are close to real flight,and are happy with this problem,or relearn to fly,B.S. Oleg is getting close but has away to go.
May be he will look at the posts and correct the yaw oscillations in this game.

Grue_
01-06-2006, 03:47 AM
I agree with Mormac, 4.02 = work in progress.

The oscillations will soon vanish I think.

Brain32
01-06-2006, 04:17 AM
People if you have problems with landing/taking off you should really practice more, 401 was much harder for that, and much more fun, in 402 you just fire it up and go, not to metion that throthle management loosed it's importance http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

msalama
01-06-2006, 04:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">401 was much harder for that, and much more fun, in 402 you just fire it up and go </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disagree 94.2345872-100%. Heck, try the Sturmo for example - DEFINITELY more torq there than what we had in 4.01...

SeaFireLIV
01-06-2006, 04:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Oh, and 4.02 New FM feels best in planes that suffer from negative gee engine cut~out. I ~love~ it!! Do the I-16 and CR.42 thing, its a whole new flight simming lifestyle.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. The I16 is still a great plane, but you`ll find few `fun` takers as a lot of them can`t handle the neg-G thing. Funny to think I heard some blue flyer calling the I16 a `ufo` yea right, bet he`s never tried flying it.

Perhaps part of the problem is that people are `fighting` too much against the `waviness`. I find it works well to sort of let the plane have a little leeway and coax it to your bidding. I find it especially useful when trying to avoid enemy aircraft online - let that `wobble` help manouever you OUT of trouble. I do.

Don`t fight it.

msalama
01-06-2006, 05:14 AM
Heck, just STOP the oscillations with your rudder! Works off- or online...

Udidtoo
01-06-2006, 09:19 AM
If nothing else take consolation in this. Come the next patch we will have a completely new flight model to weigh in on. Try and turn the negative into a positive. Your not flying a twitchy and irritating FM, you've been given the privilege of being a beta tester for BoB.

slkcrab
01-06-2006, 09:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Actually, the Spit is a difficult beast in 4.02. Especially landing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find flying and landing the Spit a complete joy using 4.02m. Even the '109's are a blast. If you wanna try hard, maybe even impossible, try landing the Spit or '109 in BOBII WoV. It's made me all but quit playing that sim.

SeaFireLIV
01-06-2006, 09:45 AM
He`s right BOBWOV has the toughest takeoff and landing simulation I`ve seen to date, way tougher than people think IL2 is. I also suspect it`s more realistic too. Although once learned it`s easy to do.

Unknown-Pilot
01-06-2006, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
He`s right BOBWOV has the toughest takeoff and landing simulation I`ve seen to date, way tougher than people think IL2 is. I also suspect it`s more realistic too. Although once learned it`s easy to do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Harder != More realistic.

SeaFireLIV
01-06-2006, 09:53 AM
I did say i only `suspect`. I don`t actually know for sure.

Bearcat99
01-06-2006, 11:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
You have alot of VERY good points. This is a very bad patch. It does nothing for the part-time players. And, I think it scares alot of potential new players away. Most of the ones here who say this is a "great patch", and "learn to fly!", usually fly the La-7, Yak-3, Spitfire, or some other UFO plane. Sad to say, but they also fly Wonder-Woman style.

Like the man said, stay away from the American fighters (except for the P-40 or P-38). Maybe, just maybe, a patch will come out and make it a more playable.

Note: Onwhine is NOT the Bees-Knees Dudes. Some of us like to play Offwhine too ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love 4.02.... and I fly P-40s,38s,39s,51s,47s,Corsairs,F-4s,F6s,Spits,109s and Hurris... and I have no problems at all taking off..... even in a P-47 in the desert with a full load... I dont fly open pit arcade, although I dont go for the full immersion thing either.. (What can I say I like externals.... the rest I can take or leave as far as views go and still enjoy myself..) and as far as offline play goes.... I enjoy it everyday.. even when I cant fly online I still get some stick time in offline. If you cant take off in this sim the problem is probably either your stick or you. There is a utility called IL2 sticks that you can get from AW.C.. or you can get IL2 Manager which has a stick utility built into it. Either one may help you find the sweet spot you are looking for as far as your stick settings go.. or you just may have a stick that is at the end of it's life. It has been known to happen even with brand new sticks. Lets face it... this is not a sim for the caual simmer. It has a learning curve which is steeper than for most sims.... infact IMO considering that it has no avionics to learn it is the most complicated sim out to date as far as flying it. You shouldnt lump a whole group of people together who have taken the time to learn how to really enjoy the sim as it is..... if you cant seem to do that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

BTW... VAC.. (Voice Activated Commands.... I am sure you have heard of the program by now) is a GREAT utility for enhancing offline play (Or online coops too.... ). It is really some thing you have to experience to fully appreciate. Not having to take your eyes or hands off the sticks or monitor to type commands adds so much to immersion and your overall performance. It is more than worth the $10 to purchase it... the fact that it works in any Windows app makes it even more priceless.

msalama
01-06-2006, 12:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I did say i only `suspect`. I don`t actually know for sure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but who the fXXX _does_ know???

OTOH there's this bloke who writes articles concerning old warbirds in an aviation magazine (sorry - no link because I lost everything to a crash a while ago) who says all this "torque" business is a bit of a myth IIRC... Yeah, according to him it's there, but it's nothing you've gotta FIGHT after you know what's what with these beasts!

Or so he sez anyway. Dunno meself, of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

msalama
01-06-2006, 12:50 PM
BC: what U said. Agree 100-110%

jds1978
01-06-2006, 07:33 PM
Funny.

I just got FB/AEP for Xmas. prior to that i had PF SA patched to 4.02.

Once i merge installed i flew 3.04 for close to a week and generally hated it. 4.01/4.02 FM is a great step forward IMO.

Merged and patched to the latest is the way to go

Bearcat99
01-06-2006, 09:21 PM
The only way to go IMO....

fordfan25
01-06-2006, 11:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
File this under "Who Cares".

I'm done with crashing every time I land, trying to muscle planes into the air on takeoff, inputting full trim and still having plane do left turns in the air, firing at planes that I have completely outmanuvered and having my nose swing 30 degrees from the recoil, etc.

All the while that a real immersion killer, having my engine shot out with one .50 round from a tail gunner 500 meters away, goes unaddressed.

3.04 for me. Sorry all you 4.02 campaign builders and map makers. I will not be sampling your wares. I have more than enough planes to fly, don't need new ones.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gifat 4.02 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yea iv gotten pi$$ed at times. i think 3.04 was a bit better as wellhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tallyho1961
01-07-2006, 04:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
BTW... VAC.. (Voice Activated Commands.... I am sure you have heard of the program by now) is a GREAT utility for enhancing offline play (Or online coops too.... ). It is really some thing you have to experience to fully appreciate. Not having to take your eyes or hands off the sticks or monitor to type commands adds so much to immersion and your overall performance. It is more than worth the $10 to purchase it... the fact that it works in any Windows app makes it even more priceless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second that emotion.

VAC is almost as big an immersion enhancer as TrackIR. There are some 150 commands available when you add the variations for each of the four programmable 'flights'. Ten bucks, a microphone and an afternoon of work to set up your profile and you're done.

Re: 4.02 - After resisting the idea as 'too much gear' I finally got pedals when 4.01 was released and they made a huge difference. Now, I can't imagine trying to fly without them.

I suspect many who find 4.01/4.02 unreasonably difficult from the a/c control POV would benefit from a set of pedals. It's another $100-150 bucks to shell out, I know, but flight simming is all about realism, and pedals are the way it's done in RL. And flying with your feet feels really cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

OldMan____
01-07-2006, 04:28 AM
In fact wehn I dropped my pedal set and went back to x45 rudder control It was all clean and beutifull again. Now the pedals are in the closet in the box " things to throw away".

FoolTrottel
01-07-2006, 05:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
In fact wehn I dropped my pedal set and went back to x45 rudder control It was all clean and beutifull again. Now the pedals are in the closet in the box " things to throw away". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting observation.
I don't think many have tried this.
Wonder if it would change anything.
Hm, let's try this...

Tallyho1961
01-07-2006, 05:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
In fact wehn I dropped my pedal set and went back to x45 rudder control It was all clean and beutifull again. Now the pedals are in the closet in the box " things to throw away". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I use an X45 and I could never get used to the rocker. God knows I tried.

FoolTrottel
01-07-2006, 05:46 AM
Not better w/o pedals, using a small wheel-like controller for rudder on the stick (It auto-centres).

Comparing the two methods, I see no change in wobbly-like-behaviour... well, the small wheel makes it harder to change input, it's not that accurate as pedals.

Have Fun!

Da_Godfatha
01-07-2006, 06:41 AM
Back off Fella's ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif I NEVER said everyone here flys WW, and I DON'T fly arcade myself. Just look at Hypno-Lobby and see how many servers are WW-Arcade....about 80%. Try to get on a No arcade server, they are always full. BTW, some of you big-mouths here with your fancy sigs and Squadron-tags, I HAVE flown on some of your servers, very sad, so sad, Arcade like a Playstation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif(you know who you are! )

The reason why alot here say they have NO problems is because:

1. System
2. Graphics
3. Hardware

Simple said, when you have a 72 inch monitor and a 14 Gigabyte graphics card and the best joystick, naturally the game is the shnizzle!

We see that with the "wobble" effect. Some have it, some don't. ( I think that is why the consoles are taking over in the game scene, no problem with hardware compat) Yes I know, 1C can't program for all systems.

But this thread is taking it's normal course. The "Learn to Fly you n00b" boi's are taking over (as usual). Wait till the next patch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif , maybe the boi's will be crying and the masses will be happy !

SeaFireLIV
01-07-2006, 06:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
Try to get on a No arcade server, they are always full. BTW, some of you big-mouths here with your fancy sigs and Squadron-tags, I HAVE flown on some of your servers, very sad, so sad, Arcade like a Playstation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif(you know who you are! )

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A course in `social interaction on the net` would benefit you greatly.

han freak solo
01-07-2006, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
Simple said, when you have a 72 inch monitor and a 14 Gigabyte graphics card and the best joystick, naturally the game is the shnizzle!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't I wish. With heavy AAA from enemy ships in PF, I have to slow down game speed to 1/2 or 1/4. "Perfect" settings? I've only seen them in screen shots.

17" CRT monitor
nVidia FX 5500 128MB vid card
Compaq Presario with AMD Athlon XP 2400+ 1.99GHz
266MHz FSB
1GB RAM

The only shnizzle I have is a TrackIr 2, CH Pro Pedals, and a MS Sidewinder Precision 2. Most wouldn't consider any of that shnizzle except for the pedals.

If you didn't notice, the original poster said he is gonna give 4.02 another shot because he doesn't wanna be Hilton. Good for him!
http://www.bongonews.com/StoryImages/paris_t_mobile_2005-03-02.JPG

Bearcat99
01-07-2006, 01:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tallyho1961:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
In fact wehn I dropped my pedal set and went back to x45 rudder control It was all clean and beutifull again. Now the pedals are in the closet in the box " things to throw away". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I use an X45 and I could never get used to the rocker. God knows I tried. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Old man... give the pedals another shot... Tally did you try to set the rudder rocker as a switch? I have mine set as a 2 way switch with a null zone in the middle.. for flaps. Works great.

Tallyho1961
01-07-2006, 04:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tallyho1961:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
In fact wehn I dropped my pedal set and went back to x45 rudder control It was all clean and beutifull again. Now the pedals are in the closet in the box " things to throw away". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I use an X45 and I could never get used to the rocker. God knows I tried. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Old man... give the pedals another shot... Tally did you try to set the rudder rocker as a switch? I have mine set as a 2 way switch with a null zone in the middle.. for flaps. Works great. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BC: How do you program the rocker like that?

Bearcat99
01-07-2006, 07:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tallyho1961:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tallyho1961:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
In fact wehn I dropped my pedal set and went back to x45 rudder control It was all clean and beutifull again. Now the pedals are in the closet in the box " things to throw away". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I use an X45 and I could never get used to the rocker. God knows I tried. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Old man... give the pedals another shot... Tally did you try to set the rudder rocker as a switch? I have mine set as a 2 way switch with a null zone in the middle.. for flaps. Works great. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BC: How do you program the rocker like that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to use the Saitek software to set up a profile first of all. Once you do that go into the Saitek software and open the FB profile that you use. Highlight the rudder rocker key and you will see a window like this
http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/bearcat/1.jpg

Click the little arrow in the upper RH corner and you will see a window that will say Axis,Bands,X Mouse Axis ,Y mouse axis.. click on bands and you will see something like this
http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/bearcat/2.jpg

Put your cursor on the red bar and move it up until the number reads 70%.. then go back to the cursor and move it down until it reads 30%.. you will see something like this
http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/bearcat/3.jpg If you make a mistake hit the red x once you get it right hit the green check. Once you get a screen that should look like this after you band it 3 ways then click the upper band and assign the key you use for flaps up and then go to the lower band and click.. assign the key you use for flaps down.. or however you want to. In the end it should look like this
http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/bearcat/4.jpg

It is that simple. It takes a little playing around with to get the hang of it but it isnt hard at all. Basically what you have done is set up your rudder rocker as a rocker switch instead of a pot. You have made the middle 40% of the pot a null zone with no input... the upper and lower 30% are assigned to the switch. You can do that with any of the pots on the X-45.... Since I use a MSFFB2/X-45/CH pedals combo I dont use the stick to fly, I use my MSFFB2 stick for that.... so I use the X-45 for the throttle and as I said I use the X-45 stick as a button bay. I have banded the X&Y axii of the X-45 joystick.... in effect turning it into a lever. Now when I push the X-45 stick to the 12 Oclock position it is auto gear... to the 6 is tailwheel lock.. to the 9 is manual raise and to the right is manual lower. Once you band it you can also set it to repeat so when I raise or lower my gear manually all I have to do is push the stick and hold it there till the light goes on or off in the pit. Eventually I would like to take the guts out of the X-45 stick and put them in the throttle ..pots and all and just use the one controller.. something like this
http://jupiter.walagata.com/w/bearcat/x452.jpg

Until then though I do what I just mentioned.

Unknown-Pilot
01-07-2006, 09:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by han freak solo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
Simple said, when you have a 72 inch monitor and a 14 Gigabyte graphics card and the best joystick, naturally the game is the shnizzle!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't I wish. With heavy AAA from enemy ships in PF, I have to slow down game speed to 1/2 or 1/4. "Perfect" settings? I've only seen them in screen shots.

17" CRT monitor
nVidia FX 5500 128MB vid card
Compaq Presario with AMD Athlon XP 2400+ 1.99GHz
266MHz FSB
1GB RAM

The only shnizzle I have is a TrackIr 2, CH Pro Pedals, and a MS Sidewinder Precision 2. Most wouldn't consider any of that shnizzle except for the pedals.

If you didn't notice, the original poster said he is gonna give 4.02 another shot because he doesn't wanna be Hilton. Good for him!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

System spec thread! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ancient 17" CRT (bought it as an open box *sale* for $850, to give you an idea of age)
P4 3.2 (&lt;- only 'cause old system died)
1GB RAM
GF4 Ti4200/256MB

Only "high end" thing I have is my TM Cougar Hotas with TM Pedals.

And I play at 1024x768x32 with no Anti-Aliasing.

But I've also been playing for 4 years too. Could be why I (and the others), *don't* have a problem. But why should you let logic and reason get in the way of your little rant, DaGodfatha? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Grue_
01-08-2006, 07:08 AM
Bearcat, if you use Alt-PrintScreen you will capture the active window only.

No charge http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tallyho1961
01-08-2006, 08:40 AM
Thanks, Bearcat!

It never even occurred to me that the rudder rocker could be put to alternate use. I also love the modifications you've done to the throttle base. I'm useless with electronics or I'd give it a try.

The one thing I have done is cover up those horrible sci-fi blue Saitek top plates on both throttle and stick bases with black adhesive vinyl - it seems you did the same - so they don't look like fugitives from the Space 1999 prop closet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thanks again for the excellent rocker tip.

Dave.

Bearcat99
01-08-2006, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grue_:
Bearcat, if you use Alt-PrintScreen you will capture the active window only.

No charge http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Grue...

Bearcat99
01-08-2006, 11:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tallyho1961:
Thanks, Bearcat!

It never even occurred to me that the rudder rocker could be put to alternate use. I also love the modifications you've done to the throttle base. I'm useless with electronics or I'd give it a try.

The one thing I have done is cover up those horrible sci-fi blue Saitek top plates on both throttle and stick bases with black adhesive vinyl - it seems you did the same - so they don't look like fugitives from the Space 1999 prop closet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thanks again for the excellent rocker tip.

Dave. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL.. I havent done them yet.... I found that pic here whe I was doing some research as to if anyone had done it.. but that is what I intend todo. I just have so many irons in the fire right now.

Kuna15
01-08-2006, 11:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grue_:
Bearcat, if you use Alt-PrintScreen you will capture the active window only.

No charge http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for posting that; that is really useful info http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Tallyho1961
01-08-2006, 01:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tallyho1961:
Thanks, Bearcat!

It never even occurred to me that the rudder rocker could be put to alternate use. I also love the modifications you've done to the throttle base. I'm useless with electronics or I'd give it a try.

The one thing I have done is cover up those horrible sci-fi blue Saitek top plates on both throttle and stick bases with black adhesive vinyl - it seems you did the same - so they don't look like fugitives from the Space 1999 prop closet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thanks again for the excellent rocker tip.

Dave. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL.. I havent done them yet.... I found that pic here whe I was doing some research as to if anyone had done it.. but that is what I intend todo. I just have so many irons in the fire right now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And there I was thinking you were an electronics guru http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Make sure you post when your X45 is modded up.

mortoma
01-08-2006, 06:16 PM
The only problem I have in 4.02 is that now ground attack/jabo missions are far more dangerous since they made flak/AAA more accurate. I think it's unrealistically accurate. Would any pilot in the
real war have survived if ground fire was really that good?? I doubt it. Other htna that I don't
have much more toruble than ever

Lucius_Esox
01-09-2006, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But this thread is taking it's normal course. The "Learn to Fly you n00b" boi's are taking over (as usual). Wait till the next patch , maybe the boi's will be crying and the masses will be happy !
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh yeah very good idea m8. Lets make it easier for the masses shall we, after all thats what it's all about isn't it??

In case you hadn't noticed this is a "sim". Read the above story about a "real" fliers issues to begin with when trying to take off. Then read the threads about peoples h/ware.

Then come to a conclusion about why some don't like this patch..

A bitter pill to swallow maybe. If enough shout loud enough we all get dummed down I suppose, to be honest thats why people like you irritate me.