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View Full Version : The Weakest Plane?????......



MajorWatcher
12-14-2008, 05:07 PM
So what do you think is the "death trap" plane....

A: doesnt have hardly any arsenal
B: A gust of wind can shoot it down
C: it just plain out sucks!


whats your worse plane??

M_Gunz
12-14-2008, 05:08 PM
TB3 comes to mind.

I_KG100_Prien
12-14-2008, 05:10 PM
The Storch.

WTE_Galway
12-14-2008, 05:11 PM
Kubelwagen

be sure

Daiichidoku
12-14-2008, 06:53 PM
I-185 is easily the weakest plane in game

Freiwillige
12-14-2008, 08:12 PM
P11 comes to mind. Although highly menouverable its too slow, burns easily and cant down anything with its four mismatched pea shooters.

Im sure it was a great 30s plane but agianst its Russian and German rivals its a death trap

Divine-Wind
12-14-2008, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
P11 comes to mind. Although highly menouverable its too slow, burns easily and cant down anything with its four mismatched pea shooters.

Im sure it was a great 30s plane but agianst its Russian and German rivals its a death trap
Yep. Makes a great AI trainer aircraft, though.

PanzerAce
12-14-2008, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
P11 comes to mind. Although highly menouverable its too slow, burns easily and cant down anything with its four mismatched pea shooters.

Im sure it was a great 30s plane but agianst its Russian and German rivals its a death trap

Agreed. I think that half the problem with it though is that even the I-16 or -153 is way faster, so it's hard to jump into the P-11.

LEBillfish
12-14-2008, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
TB3 comes to mind.

TB3 is a tank compared to Japanese aircraft.

Ki-27, Ki-43-I, A6M2.....Though flown correctly can be deadly.

K2

biggs222
12-14-2008, 09:17 PM
I dont know if this has been fixed or changed in any of the recent updates, but when i first started playing IL2 back when it came out, the MiGs were practically "flying oil rags"

is that still true in 4.08?

VW-IceFire
12-14-2008, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by biggs222:
I dont know if this has been fixed or changed in any of the recent updates, but when i first started playing IL2 back when it came out, the MiGs were practically "flying oil rags"

is that still true in 4.08?
Still true...although they tend to be the fastest available prop fighter until the FW190 or later 109 models arrive on the scene. Terrible handling and firepower on the other hand.

I doubt there is one "worst" or "weakest" plane just like there is no best or strongest plane. Every plane has its issues...not to say that they are equal either.

If I were to decide on which not to choose from the vast array of aircraft we have lined up I'd stay away from the LaGG-3, MiG-3, Ki-27, and P.11c although each have their charm which doesn't stop me from flying them.

WTE_Galway
12-14-2008, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by PanzerAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
P11 comes to mind. Although highly menouverable its too slow, burns easily and cant down anything with its four mismatched pea shooters.

Im sure it was a great 30s plane but agianst its Russian and German rivals its a death trap

Agreed. I think that half the problem with it though is that even the I-16 or -153 is way faster, so it's hard to jump into the P-11. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like the P11C .. split S at 100 metres ?? Why not??

You can get more speed out of it by diving to 500 kmh and snapping the wheels off. It makes it hard to land though.

On the plus side it has an awesome collision damage model. When fighting things like 109's just ram them, you can take off their wings and fly away unharmed.

biggs222
12-14-2008, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Every plane has its issues...not to say that they are equal either.


not true icefire, the Spitfire has no weaknesses. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Boosher
12-14-2008, 10:17 PM
Except for its glass jaw... that is the Merlin engine...

HayateAce
12-14-2008, 10:42 PM
109G2

Manu-6S
12-15-2008, 01:51 AM
Ju88s and Mosquitos...

p51srule
12-15-2008, 10:03 AM
I know the P.11 was a waste but the TB3 has a pretty short take off and it can take some good ammount of damage, but I also think of the JA8 yea it can turn on a dime but u loose so much speed.

thefruitbat
12-15-2008, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
109G2

nice cast out, good bait.

fruitbat

HayateAce
12-15-2008, 10:31 AM
It's all in the wrist.

thefruitbat
12-15-2008, 10:34 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WeedEater9p
12-15-2008, 10:56 AM
P.11c vs. Stuka is one epic battle. Then again I've beaten AI 109s by damaging their engines and waiting... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

I'd say M.C 202

MB_Avro_UK
12-15-2008, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by MajorWatcher:
So what do you think is the "death trap" plane....

A: doesnt have hardly any arsenal
B: A gust of wind can shoot it down
C: it just plain out sucks!


whats your worse plane??


Do you mean 'Worst' plane? And 'What's' instead of whats?

If it really is your first post here, try and get your spelling right and set an example.

Your choice in A: B: and C: obviously indicate to all that you are a dedicated student of WW2 military aircraft performance.

Perhaps your second post will ask as to which plane has sharp bits that hurt your fingers?


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Pyrres
12-15-2008, 11:08 AM
Fiat G.50 anyone. Everytime I flew that thing I ended up being shot to peaces and everything I shooted flew away in perfect condition.

stalkervision
12-15-2008, 11:16 AM
"There are no weak planes,just weak airmen" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/3644/grab0046db7.jpg

Thus was from a one on one vertical dogfight btw.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Or was it two 109's on one.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Metatron_123
12-15-2008, 12:25 PM
Fiat CR42. Hop in a Hurrican and watch them explode.

Also early Lagg-3. Hop in a Bf-109 F and watch them burn.

beNdeR__
12-15-2008, 01:06 PM
F4F-3 Wildcat

Turn...Turn...Stall...Recover...Accelerate...Accel erate...Stall...Spin...Attempt to Recover... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif ...Bailout...Quit

Warrington_Wolf
12-15-2008, 01:13 PM
A poor craftsman always blames his tools http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Sillius_Sodus
12-15-2008, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Pyrres:
Fiat G.50 anyone. Everytime I flew that thing I ended up being shot to peaces and everything I shooted flew away in perfect condition.

Hi Pyrres,

My squad plays around with the G50 in our df sessions and it's actually a very good dogfighter, regularly shooting down Hurricanes and Spit Mk1's. It's one of my favorite rides. The MC200 is also a lot of fun.

In the end I think it boils down to balance. If you try to take on a Yak-3 in a PZL-11 you probably won't survive, but against a CR42 or I-153 it can certainly hold it's own.

stalkervision
12-15-2008, 05:04 PM
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/3671/shot676xx8.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

stalkervision
12-15-2008, 05:50 PM
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8681/grab0021hu3.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

jarink
12-15-2008, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by beNdeR__:
F4F-3 Wildcat

Turn...Turn...Stall...Recover...Accelerate...Accel erate...Stall...Spin...Attempt to Recover... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif ...Bailout...Quit

Classic case of how not to fly a F4F. The Wildcat is probably my favorite USN plane to fly.

PhantomKira
12-15-2008, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
"There are no weak planes,just weak airmen" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/3644/grab0046db7.jpg

Thus was from a one on one vertical dogfight btw.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Or was it two 109's on one.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

White stars... and red star? Just who's side are you on, anyway? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I can vouch for the F4F, one of my favorites, too. Just a matter of learning the airplane and working with it, even if you want to fly another way, that's all.

M_Gunz
12-15-2008, 10:30 PM
Right, Storch.

BTW Prien while I agree with your choice I am glad I don't have dialup since your avatar loads huge and sizes down.
Rt-click and View Image shows the full size that everyone must download/cache... thanks.

Pyrres
12-15-2008, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Sillius_Sodus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pyrres:
Fiat G.50 anyone. Everytime I flew that thing I ended up being shot to peaces and everything I shooted flew away in perfect condition.

Hi Pyrres,

My squad plays around with the G50 in our df sessions and it's actually a very good dogfighter, regularly shooting down Hurricanes and Spit Mk1's. It's one of my favorite rides. The MC200 is also a lot of fun.

In the end I think it boils down to balance. If you try to take on a Yak-3 in a PZL-11 you probably won't survive, but against a CR42 or I-153 it can certainly hold it's own. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, might be just that or just pure bad luck. Cause I have no problems with other about the same type fighters.

Ba5tard5word
12-15-2008, 11:40 PM
Weakest as in easiest to blow up?

Probably the Zero. It's kind of a big target, it's slow, and often explodes after just a couple hits.


I-153's are little tanks, you can mark them up all day with the 7.62mm's of the era and they keep flying loops around you.

For "sitting ducks" it seems like any cargo plane (barring the Me-323) will explode after just a few hits. The Fw-200 also goes down pretty easy and doesn't seem to fall apart in a very convincing way--most other bombers seem more modeled in physics and seem to take a lot more hits to send down.

stalkervision
12-16-2008, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by PhantomKira:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
"There are no weak planes,just weak airmen" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/3644/grab0046db7.jpg

Thus was from a one on one vertical dogfight btw.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Or was it two 109's on one.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

White stars... and red star? Just who's side are you on, anyway? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I can vouch for the F4F, one of my favorites, too. Just a matter of learning the airplane and working with it, even if you want to fly another way, that's all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The aircraft was a lend-lease right off the boat and was needed so bad the soviets didn't have time to erase the American stars.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Ernst_Rohr
12-16-2008, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by beNdeR__:
F4F-3 Wildcat

Turn...Turn...Stall...Recover...Accelerate...Accel erate...Stall...Spin...Attempt to Recover... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif ...Bailout...Quit

Having flown in a virtual navy squadron for a couple of years, thats dead wrong. Wildcat isnt a turn fighter (though it isnt bad).

A well flown Wildcat is a good plane, and a contender against anything from the same time period.

p51srule
12-16-2008, 09:50 AM
the weakest plane has to be the P-11, it is a waste of time, its slower a snail, it has no protection, and its got the manuvarability of a Me332.

P51srule: "speed is life in a dogfight"

HayateAce
12-16-2008, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Right, Storch.

BTW Prien while I agree with your choice I am glad I don't have dialup since your avatar loads huge and sizes down.
Rt-click and View Image shows the full size that everyone must download/cache... thanks.

For once, I agree with your views.

Crikey Prien:

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb244/gerekeh/not-lupus.png

Woke_Up_Dead
12-16-2008, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by p51srule:
the weakest plane has to be the P-11, it is a waste of time, its slower a snail, it has no protection, and its got the manuvarability of a Me332.

P51srule: "speed is life in a dogfight"

It's definitely slow, it's a bit tougher than it looks, but how can you complain about its maneuverability? It's probably the tightest turning plane in the game. It can dodge bullets all day long, and it can be very effective on a map where the opposing bases are very close and no one bothers to gain altitude before meeting, twisting, and turning. It's definitely the weakest plane if you try to play by the other guy's rules, no other turning plane is so slow and weakly armed. But if you manage to drag your opponent into the mud and below 250km/h then it's a good fight.

WTE_Galway
12-16-2008, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Woke_Up_Dead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p51srule:
the weakest plane has to be the P-11, it is a waste of time, its slower a snail, it has no protection, and its got the manuvarability of a Me332.

P51srule: "speed is life in a dogfight"

It's definitely slow, it's a bit tougher than it looks, but how can you complain about its maneuverability? It's probably the tightest turning plane in the game. It can dodge bullets all day long, and it can be very effective on a map where the opposing bases are very close and no one bothers to gain altitude before meeting, twisting, and turning. It's definitely the weakest plane if you try to play by the other guy's rules, no other turning plane is so slow and weakly armed. But if you manage to drag your opponent into the mud and below 250km/h then it's a good fight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Back in my online days I used to do rather well in the p11c, bagged a few later war planes silly enough to try and turn with it including 109's yaks and one p39.

The p39 Jock must have been insane thinking he could turn fight a p11c. It doesn't just turn well its vertical performance at lowspeed is exceptional as well. You can Split S ridiculously close to the ground.


As for the armament ... just like the biplanes the p11c requires you actually be able to shoot at a specific point on the target (rather than randomly spamming cannon or 0.50 cal in the general direction of the target hoping for a few lucky hits).

The main problem flying a p11c online (usually as airfield CAP) is the later war jocks find it "annoying" and you sometimes get booted.

As a point of interest the p11c acquired well over 100 Luftwaffe kills in a very short period during the Polish campaign.

Lets be serious for a second, the Luftwaffe lost 285 aircraft in roughly two weeks in Poland versus just 1100 aircraft lost during the entire Battle of Britain. Does that sound like an outmoded airforce that was a walkover for the luftwaffe ?

Freiwillige
12-16-2008, 07:28 PM
How many of those were to AAA? How many of those were JU-52's? How many of those were to friendly fire AAA and otherwise? How many of those were Ju-87's or Recon craft? You see there are alot of variables that can skew ones view?

For example I would hardly expext the Luftwaffe to be employing JU-52's during the battle of Britian but during the battle of Poland I would apt to say they were quite common. I dont think that the Polish air force in their P11's had much of a standing against the Jagdwaffe in their 109's and 110's.

Now I know their are exceptions like the P-11 that took out a bunch of 109s at low level. There are always exceptions like the few Stuka's that shot down P11's!

I would say comparing the oudated P11's to the R.A.F. and its more modernised force is like comparing a house cat to a lion.

Ba5tard5word
12-16-2008, 07:41 PM
P.11's were considered the most modern fighter planes in the world for about 5 minutes after they were first unveiled in the early 30's.

WTE_Galway
12-16-2008, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
How many of those were to AAA? How many of those were JU-52's? How many of those were to friendly fire AAA and otherwise? How many of those were Ju-87's or Recon craft? You see there are alot of variables that can skew ones view?

For example I would hardly expext the Luftwaffe to be employing JU-52's during the battle of Britian but during the battle of Poland I would apt to say they were quite common. I dont think that the Polish air force in their P11's had much of a standing against the Jagdwaffe in their 109's and 110's.

Now I know their are exceptions like the P-11 that took out a bunch of 109s at low level. There are always exceptions like the few Stuka's that shot down P11's!

I would say comparing the oudated P11's to the R.A.F. and its more modernised force is like comparing a house cat to a lion.

Without a doubt the RAF was a more modern airforce.

Nevertheless there are a number of myths about Poland.

One is that it was a wonderful free democratic country ... it wasn't, it was ruled by a ruthless dictatorship.

Another is that the poles collapsed within days because of woeful out of date primitive technology including biplanes and cavalry. This is also not true, in fact Poland, whilst clearly losing, held out against Germany for several weeks and was still fighting only collapsing when the Russians invaded from the other side.

Another myth is that the Polish airforce was wiped out by the luftwaffe in the first hours of the invasion. At the point of the Russian invasion the polish airforce was still flying and in fact scored a number of kills against the VVS.

The Poles actually did a better job of holding off the Wehrmacht then Belgium, Holland France and Britain combined in the Battle for France.

Scolar
12-17-2008, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
As a point of interest the p11c acquired well over 100 Luftwaffe kills in a very short period during the Polish campaign.

Lets be serious for a second, the Luftwaffe lost 285 aircraft in roughly two weeks in Poland versus just 1100 aircraft lost during the entire Battle of Britain. Does that sound like an outmoded airforce that was a walkover for the luftwaffe ?

Well the battle of Britian lasted only a few weeks as well until the blitz began.

Freiwillige
12-17-2008, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
How many of those were to AAA? How many of those were JU-52's? How many of those were to friendly fire AAA and otherwise? How many of those were Ju-87's or Recon craft? You see there are alot of variables that can skew ones view?

For example I would hardly expext the Luftwaffe to be employing JU-52's during the battle of Britian but during the battle of Poland I would apt to say they were quite common. I dont think that the Polish air force in their P11's had much of a standing against the Jagdwaffe in their 109's and 110's.

Now I know their are exceptions like the P-11 that took out a bunch of 109s at low level. There are always exceptions like the few Stuka's that shot down P11's!

I would say comparing the oudated P11's to the R.A.F. and its more modernised force is like comparing a house cat to a lion.

Without a doubt the RAF was a more modern airforce.

Nevertheless there are a number of myths about Poland.

One is that it was a wonderful free democratic country ... it wasn't, it was ruled by a ruthless dictatorship.

Another is that the poles collapsed within days because of woeful out of date primitive technology including biplanes and cavalry. This is also not true, in fact Poland, whilst clearly losing, held out against Germany for several weeks and was still fighting only collapsing when the Russians invaded from the other side.

Another myth is that the Polish airforce was wiped out by the luftwaffe in the first hours of the invasion. At the point of the Russian invasion the polish airforce was still flying and in fact scored a number of kills against the VVS.

The Poles actually did a better job of holding off the Wehrmacht then Belgium, Holland France and Britain combined in the Battle for France. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

German invasion of poland "Fall Weiss" commenced
on September 1st 1939. By mid september the battle of Bzura had met its completion west of Warsaw and from that point onwards the Germans had the clear advantage. The Polish plan from that point onwards was to move what units were left and hold up in the Romanian bridgehead in the extreme south east corner of Poland and wait for reinforcments.

So two to three weeks is what the Poles had as for an effective defence. After that it was a fighting withdrawell.

And as for the P11. Wikipedia states this:

A total of 285 German aircraft were lost according to Luftwaffe records, with at least 110 victories credited to the P.11 for the loss of about 100 of their own.[2] Some of the German aircraft shot down were later recovered and put back into service. That allowed German propaganda to claim smaller combat losses.

At dawn on 1 September, Capt. Mieczysław Medwecki flying a PZL P.11c was shot down by a German Ju 87, having the dubious honour of becoming the first aircraft shot down in the Second World War. The first Allied air victory was achieved 20 minutes later by Medwecki's wingman, Wladyslaw Gnys who shot down two Dornier Do 17s with his P.11c.

Now out of those 110 Luftwaffe losses how many were 109's and 110's vs how many were transport and bombers? That is the Question.

Xiolablu3
12-17-2008, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by Scolar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
As a point of interest the p11c acquired well over 100 Luftwaffe kills in a very short period during the Polish campaign.

Lets be serious for a second, the Luftwaffe lost 285 aircraft in roughly two weeks in Poland versus just 1100 aircraft lost during the entire Battle of Britain. Does that sound like an outmoded airforce that was a walkover for the luftwaffe ?

Well the battle of Britian lasted only a few weeks as well until the blitz began. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was around 3-4 months.

JV44_Wubke
12-17-2008, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by MajorWatcher:
So what do you think is the "death trap" plane....

A: doesnt have hardly any arsenal
B: A gust of wind can shoot it down
C: it just plain out sucks!


whats your worse plane??
Mine

Kernow
12-17-2008, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:

At dawn on 1 September, Capt. Mieczysław Medwecki flying a PZL P.11c was shot down by a German Ju 87, having the dubious honour of becoming the first aircraft shot down in the Second World War. The first Allied air victory was achieved 20 minutes later by Medwecki's wingman, Wladyslaw Gnys who shot down two Dornier Do 17s with his P.11c.

Now out of those 110 Luftwaffe losses how many were 109's and 110's vs how many were transport and bombers? That is the Question.

Very similar to the account I've seen of the first kills of WW2. The Stuka pilot was Frank Neubert of I./StG 2. The only difference in the account I have is that Lt Gnys shot down one of the Stukas 'a few minutes later' and not a Do-17.

The Luftwaffe lost 31 Ju-87s over Poland - out of a force of 350.

Woke_Up_Dead
12-17-2008, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:

Nevertheless there are a number of myths about Poland.

One is that it was a wonderful free democratic country ... it wasn't, it was ruled by a ruthless dictatorship.

No, that's going too far to the other extreme. Poland was democratic after it re-emerged following WWI for a few years in the early twenties, then in 1926 Pilsudski staged a military coup and installed a coalition government whose main goal was to fight government corruption and inflation. From that point on, Poland could be described as a mix of democracy and dictatorship with Pilsudski's mixed (left, centrist, and right) government winning each of the subsequent four legislative elections, including one after his death. The elections ranged from "fair" through "tainted" to outright "rigged." However, Pilsudski's government was generally popular in Poland, he could be called a "benevolent dictator," and even by today's standards the regime would not be described as "ruthless."

DKoor
12-17-2008, 05:50 PM
RE: Those obsolete over time were often death traps.

Choctaw111
12-17-2008, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
109G2

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

stugumby
12-17-2008, 07:45 PM
f2a2 buffaloe = zero ace maker

HayateAce
12-18-2008, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by Choctaw111:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
109G2

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

p51srule
12-18-2008, 09:39 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif WOW are u serious