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View Full Version : Incredible roll rate...Mr Maddox or any Dev team member plz read



Daiichidoku
12-07-2004, 09:01 AM
I hope Oleg or a member of the Dev team will read this...and better yet, will comment on this issue...

Here is the link to the GD thread I started about it; http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=3521094642


It involves strange behavior of an ac when hit by cannon fire

so far, while flying the P 47, Beaufighter, B 25 and B 29, I have been hit by cannon fire from at least two types of ac, various models of 109s, and the F4U 1C Corsair

Of those hits, they have all been in the wing, except one time was a hit in the rear fuselage of a B 25, with NO wing hits

Doesnt happen all the time, but occasionally, each of these types I have flown will, when recieving said hit, has made the ac roll at a terrific rate, as if the wing has snapped off, with no control until the time the roll has stopped, then normal control re established

I can understand maybe a FLAK burst at the wing could possibly make it lose lift, but this has been due to aerial cannon hits, not FLAK...and as I have said, one of those was in the fuselage of a B 25

This makes me think this is a bug or flaw, perhaps the game registers damage to cut a wing off, but then corrects its mistake a moment later?

Certainly, I have never heard of this event happening to even a single engine fighter, let alone a heavy, like a b 25 or B 29 what gives?

Is the Dev team aware of this effect? If so, is it intentional or a mistake?

If it is intentional, please explain the physics behind it, or even anecdotal evidence that it ever happened IRL, please and thank you, sirs

Daiichidoku
12-07-2004, 09:01 AM
I hope Oleg or a member of the Dev team will read this...and better yet, will comment on this issue...

Here is the link to the GD thread I started about it; http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=3521094642


It involves strange behavior of an ac when hit by cannon fire

so far, while flying the P 47, Beaufighter, B 25 and B 29, I have been hit by cannon fire from at least two types of ac, various models of 109s, and the F4U 1C Corsair

Of those hits, they have all been in the wing, except one time was a hit in the rear fuselage of a B 25, with NO wing hits

Doesnt happen all the time, but occasionally, each of these types I have flown will, when recieving said hit, has made the ac roll at a terrific rate, as if the wing has snapped off, with no control until the time the roll has stopped, then normal control re established

I can understand maybe a FLAK burst at the wing could possibly make it lose lift, but this has been due to aerial cannon hits, not FLAK...and as I have said, one of those was in the fuselage of a B 25

This makes me think this is a bug or flaw, perhaps the game registers damage to cut a wing off, but then corrects its mistake a moment later?

Certainly, I have never heard of this event happening to even a single engine fighter, let alone a heavy, like a b 25 or B 29 what gives?

Is the Dev team aware of this effect? If so, is it intentional or a mistake?

If it is intentional, please explain the physics behind it, or even anecdotal evidence that it ever happened IRL, please and thank you, sirs

Daiichidoku
12-08-2004, 03:41 PM
bump

JtD
12-14-2004, 09:28 AM
As opposed to what some people say in the linked thread, this happens and is in no way related to any realistic physical effects.
I have also seen guncam footage of B-17 beeing pounded by MG 151's and there was nothing anywhere close to the in game effect.

Plainly it's a bug.

I had this happen to me at least four times when flying the Bf-110 after beeing hit by YVa 23mm rounds.
I crashed into the ground once because of this.

Platypus_1.JaVA
12-14-2004, 11:35 AM
How can U fly the B-29 in the game? Can I download the cockpit somewhere?

JG54_Arnie
12-14-2004, 12:10 PM
You can fly it when a server has AI planes in the planeset and allows externals. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So you fly in external view only.

VonHeide
12-14-2004, 12:18 PM
As a dedicated mk108 fanatic I can attest to the truth of the original posters claims. Wether it is a bug or not I will not say. I have "rolled" every type of plane flown with mk108 hits to the wings in every online server Ive played.

It would only seem to make a bit of sense though that that kind of force may do something like that to a single seat fighter or light bomber.

JHAT-
12-14-2004, 12:34 PM
Now that I read it, I ve actually noticed this after 3.02m... I usually fly the P47D27 and many times, after boing hit by a 109 or 190 in the fuselage section, the right wing dropped (the last tiem it was the right wing, that s all I remember) and I thought I had lsot it.. but I looked to the side and nothing wrong.. So after that I let loose my joy and could regain control of the plane again... I don t kknow if that s realistic or not, but it happens and I don t have anything agaisnt it.

A.K.Davis
12-14-2004, 12:49 PM
If you are seeing this online when you hit someone, it is not a DM effect, at least with single engine planes. It is the other player snap-rolling when they yank back on the stick to evade. I've done it many times myself. Just sort of an instinctual response when you get hit unexpectedly. If you've got some altitude, sometimes it works out, even if you enter a spin. But if you're on the deck...

Daiichidoku
12-14-2004, 06:18 PM
AK Davis, this is NOT the case...this has happened to me in the P 47, P 63, B 25, Beaufighter, and B 29...in the single-engine types, sometimes Ive had inputs while it happened, sometimes not...and as for the B 25 and B 29, I was flying level, with little or no control inputs at the time...

Its a BUG, or something intentional that needs to be REMOVED

LEXX_Luthor
12-14-2004, 07:33 PM
Daiich, do your hit rolls happen online only? Or does it happen offline too?

DarthBane_
12-14-2004, 11:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
How can U fly the B-29 in the game? Can I download the cockpit somewhere? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure.

Daiichidoku
12-14-2004, 11:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Daiich, do your hit rolls happen online only? Or does it happen offline too? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only play online, sir...I wouldnt know about offline

easiest way to find this for yourself is to use the B 25..it attracts noobs to fire upon you

And it happens not only with wing hits, but has happened in a B 25 fuselage hit!

LEXX_Luthor
12-15-2004, 12:38 AM
Right, you need to include that information.

Equilizer
12-15-2004, 08:44 AM
I experienced this last night with the P38J online. I'm not sure what I was hit by, could have been a 30mm or a 20mm - it was late war, and most 109s were carting around 30mms on the server.

Anyway, I got hit and my plane was suddenly upside down and I was going towards the ground. I hit the bail out key immediately, usually because with a sudden departure from flight like that it means my wing is gone. The attitude I was in prevented me from bailing out immediately, and I noticed my plane was back under my control. I pulled out and tried to maintain positive Gs to keep me in the cockpit. Worked for a minute or two, then I jumped out.

If this is intentioned, and if something like this actually happened, I think it may be a little too drastic.

CPS_Shadow
12-15-2004, 07:50 PM
I've seen this happen too. Has anyone submited a track to the Bug reporting address?

WUAF_Toad
12-16-2004, 01:06 AM
This effect is so cool... if you hit someone going vertical for a hammerhead/wingover with cannon, you might be lucky enough to spin him sideway, stopping his climb immediately, to start your multihit-air-juggling combo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Daiichidoku
12-25-2004, 04:23 PM
bump aint gonna let this one go....


Just got 303 patch, dunno if this has been corrected....will find out soon enough tho

anyone had this happen with 303 patch yet?

Daiichidoku
12-26-2004, 06:10 PM
Happened to me tonight flting a beaufighter, with 303 patch...hit by cannon from a spitfire, and my beau did a 180 roll http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Daiichidoku
01-06-2005, 02:05 PM
bump

pourshot
01-06-2005, 02:23 PM
Yes it happens offline. It happened to me the other day in QMB I was practicing my gunnery against 4 zero's and one clipped my wing with a cannon shell. My p40 snap rolled just like the wing had come off then all of a sudden it stoped.

I was in a very gentle turn at the time so my wing was not loaded and I did not overcontrol after the hit, I will bet you that this is not a bug but rather what oleg calls a feature http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

J_Weaver
01-06-2005, 04:31 PM
I had it happen to me several times while flying a Wildcat and I think maybe a P-40. Every time was offline. However, I havn't seen this since 3.0.

Daiichidoku
01-09-2005, 02:53 PM
Well, last night I was flying my Jug

someone shot my rudder cables away....had NO rudder for a few minutes, then

Got shot up by a 109

Got shot up and got a massage saying "x has rendered daiichidoku's controls unuseable"...lost all aileron AND elevator response

within seconds of this, some more fire hit me....

**** thing rolled 120 degress way faster than any Jug could roll normally then of course, the roll stopped just as instantly as it started

WHAT IS THIS NONSENSE???!!???

Owlsphone
01-10-2005, 11:56 PM
I've had this happen to me before online as well.

You snap roll much faster than is possible by rolling the plane by itself. Usually it will flip my plane over so that I am inverted and then just as quickly stop rolling.

If this happens while you are on the deck, you're dead.

I've also experienced the embarassment of bailing out because I thought a mk108 shot my wing off only to see that my wings were still intact as I parachute to the ground.

LBR_W.Zellot
01-11-2005, 09:47 AM
It happened to me once, and I bailed out with an intact A/C
BUT, I believe that if a 30mm Minengeschlo├č round hits your wing, if it does not saw it off completely, it should have some kind of effect in the plane's balance...
When you hit a wing with the power that cannon does, it should definately do what it's doing....

JtD
01-11-2005, 10:20 AM
This ridiculous feature is still there. It's always funny to spin shoot bombers with something I consider fairly light armarment: I usually aim at the bombers wing now as this will throw them around a lot. It's easy to snap a He-111 (doing a quater roll in something like 0.5 seconds (anyone want to calculate what forces are nessassary for this?)) with the one lousy YVa the LaGG-3 may carry. Never b4 intercepting was as easy as it is now.

Daiichidoku
01-14-2005, 02:04 PM
bump

LBR_Rommel
01-14-2005, 02:14 PM
S!

it happened to a lot, the plane rolls very fazt like you have lost a wing but was only a hit, and i fly Germons most of the time.


&lt;O|

VW-IceFire
01-14-2005, 03:38 PM
This showed up in 3.0 Pacific Fighters release...I assumed it was a feature.

I've just noticed this behavior now on a Lagg-3 and a La-5F as I was hit by a 20mm cannon and it sent my La-5 into a uncontrolled roll for around 180 degrees before it stopped and I got control back.

Its very odd. Not sure if it was meant to be or not.

Daiichidoku
01-14-2005, 07:05 PM
happened to me in 302, as well, in jugs, beaus, mitchells, 63s, and ! B 29s !

in 303 only jugs 63s beaus and mitchells so far...barely flown b 29 in 303

but it started in 3.0 and persists (at least in the types i listed) through 303

I cant imagine it was intentional, as i have NEVER heard about this happening in 25+ years of reading aviation/war literature....and my meager understanding of physics tells me this event is nigh impossible...and dont give me any of that "concussive force disrupts airflow, and lift, over the wing" c r a p , either, cuz it happened ot me in a B 25 mitchell on a FUSELAGE hit as well

IIMHO, its a bug, cuz the plane acts as if it reads a wing loss, then corrects itself

last time it happened to me i was in a jug..took some hits in wing and fuselage, resulting in "controls unuseable"...while in the same stream of fire, with more hits, the jug did a 120 degree roll, faster than can normally be coaxed from the jug, and at 120 degrees the roll stopped as instantly as it began

BUG!

Daiichidoku
01-26-2005, 11:20 AM
bump

BlakJakOfSpades
01-26-2005, 08:18 PM
i think it may be overdone a tad, but im sure it has some basis for being in the game, you got a track of that fuselage hit? perhaps another shell you didn't see hit the tip of your wing, a wing is a long lever and a 30MM shell is pretty darn big, but i think a 180 degree snap roll may be a little much. i really dont know though, this is just what seems right to me, so what i'm saying is little more than my opinion

ColoradoBBQ
01-26-2005, 08:54 PM
I was reading Steven Ambrose's book, "D-Day" whereas there was a section on B-26s making a low level bombing run on the beaches of Normandy. They were under heavy flak and one bomber took a flak hit, causing the plane to do a complete snap roll. The B-26 recovered and made it back home.

ImpStarDuece
01-26-2005, 11:45 PM
I think there are some differences between the concussion generated by a 88 MM (or even a 150mm) artillery shell than a 30mm fighter cannon. I remamber reading that section and having a little trouble believing it, but stranger things have happened!

SeaFireLIV
01-27-2005, 02:48 AM
Well, I don`t know what`s going on. I`ve been flying for at least 2 months now (about3 missions every 3 days) offline and I STILL haven`t seen this. If I understand right, I`m supposed to experience my plane flipping right around as if I`ve lost a wing, right? But I haven`t lost a wing.

Maybe it`s because I`ve been mostly flying early war planes; I16, Lagg3, Hurricane and Spitfire V in the period 1941 `42. Perhaps it only happens with higher caliber weapons.

Personally, I`m still not sure if it`s a bug. You may not be right (but I still have to experience this to have any idea). I`ll start flying in 1943 `44 now...

My only question, Daiichidoku , is are you CERTAIN this is not realistic? You yourself said your understanding of physics is `meager` as is mine. It seems to me quite possible that if a plane were hit hard enough at the correct point in the wing it might just act in the way described, not breaking the wing because the structure has just managed to hold together.

I do think there`s a danger here of trying to alter something that you personally think is wrong, because you`ve not read anything about it in a book. Does anyone know for ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT THIS WOULD NOT HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE UNDER COMBAT CONDITIONS?

Has someone perhaps got memoires of pilots who may have experience this?

I think we simply need more evidence to make changes. I do think that if this happened with a fuselage hit then something is wrong there. You must record ALL your battles, Daiichidoku, and when this happens again, review it and send the track to Oleg and perhaps he`ll give a reason why this is happening, whether it`s designed to be or not.

p1ngu666
01-27-2005, 03:34 AM
ive heard of it happening with flak, 88mm and up

seen guncam footage, target just seems to sit there doing nothing

its coded in, like u will rotate X degrees in Y seconds, and theres NOTHING u can do about it, u can counter it instantly, but nothing happens....

try with the b25 seafire http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Daiichidoku
01-27-2005, 07:08 AM
I actually have a track of this happening to a b 25...someone else took, it, and i have no idea and have never messed with tracks, so i dont know exactly whats in it...but i will send it to pingu, who can hopefully post it here in this thread, and everyone can look at it and see what im talking about


Colorado, thanks....for the first time, someone has given an account of this happening...but then, that was a flak burst, not a hit fom aerial cannon, as impstartdeuce points out

ok, sure, in my 25 when i thought it was only a fuselage hit COULD have also been hit in the wing

but this has also happened to me in a B 29....hardly seems likely that an areial cannon could possibly cause a B 29 to "superroll"

Im sure its a bug, the plane behaves as if a wing has been lost, but then corrects itself

once i was in a p 47, and was hit, "controils became unusable", and in the same fire stream immedeatly after, the jug did a superroll of about 120 degreees, but then it immedeatly stopped just as suddenly as it happened

im waiting fo rpingu to answer MSN right now so i can send him the track...

Daiichidoku
01-27-2005, 07:09 AM
I will also e mail this track to anyone who gives me a email addy

SeaFireLIV
01-27-2005, 07:36 AM
okey doke. Pingu will probably send it to me.

p1ngu666
01-27-2005, 07:44 AM
erm what email did u send it too?
nothing has arrived, ill poke u when i see u http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

i think its easier to see what happens with ai, maybe its simplyfied?

MOhz
01-27-2005, 08:18 AM
Happened to me a while ago. In Pre-3.04 I was flying in a IAR85c (or was it 81? Whatever), when a LaGG was on my six and shooting. Suddenly my left wing dropped and I tried to conter with right rudder with no effect. I was really surprised that my aircraft did not react till it had rolled 360Ô? at an incredible rate. I was so stunned that I nearly crashed into the ground. But the amazing thing is really that you have no control over your AC until the full roll.

p1ngu666
01-27-2005, 08:38 AM
http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/whines/B25roll.zip

yep mohz, u are a passenger, often u will go into ground, not cos of the damage, be because u just rolling...

SeaFireLIV
01-27-2005, 09:24 AM
Thnx, Pingu.

Daiichidoku
01-27-2005, 09:28 AM
Thx again, Pingu! &lt;S&gt;! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

p1ngu666
01-27-2005, 10:13 AM
np guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Daiichidoku
02-04-2005, 05:42 PM
bump