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zoltank8
04-10-2007, 03:09 AM
Working hard on my dogfighting skills. Could sy advise me which to choose in which situation?

First, say the crates are identical only in different situation (one in advantage in some way)

Second, say it is a Spit vs. Bf. (as it is quite a common encounter)

I'd be most grateful for any directions given.

(Is this the place to ask sg like this or is General discussion better?)

zoltank8
04-10-2007, 03:09 AM
Working hard on my dogfighting skills. Could sy advise me which to choose in which situation?

First, say the crates are identical only in different situation (one in advantage in some way)

Second, say it is a Spit vs. Bf. (as it is quite a common encounter)

I'd be most grateful for any directions given.

(Is this the place to ask sg like this or is General discussion better?)

stathem
04-10-2007, 05:32 AM
YEs, GD is probably a better, more frequented place.

Additionally, you'll probably need to give some more details of what you mean exactly.

ie, do you mean a co-Alt, co-E merge for the PSitvs109 instance?

For the same plane engagement do you mean you have advantage or disadvantge.

The other thing I'd add is that turns don't have to be vertical OR horizontal, they can be a combination of both. Essentially, what you need to be doing is conserving your energy as much as possible and encoraging the other guy to blow his. But what you do depends on your judgement of the engagement as it develops. The most difficult part is estimating the other chap's e-state.

Anyway, try posting it again in GD, but be prepared for it to get a bit messy, with manifold attempts to drag it off-topic.

Good luck.

DooDaH2007
04-10-2007, 05:36 AM
The following extensive guide was made just for this:
http://web.comhem.se/%7Eu85627360/inpursuit.pdf

Hope it helps http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brain32
04-10-2007, 05:46 AM
Maybe better to keep it here. The number of times I was even hit by the BF109 while in a Spitfire in this game I can count using fingers of one hand only so fire away http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Well anyway let's start with what we have:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> First, say the crates are identical only in different situation (one in advantage in some way) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's say you are coming at your opponent from higher alt and at high speed, the msot often manouver you will encounter is a very sharp brake(horizontal turn), the most common attackers mistake is trying to follow that turn, instead you make what is called a high yo-yo, a manouver I would best describe as climbing turn. This manouver enables you to conserve your energy while you just made your opponent to bleed some energy and trade it to deny you of the angle. Apsolutely the best plane in the game bar none for climbing turns are the Spitfires.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Second, say it is a Spit vs. Bf. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You don't even need advantage for that, I can't imagine what one has to do in a Spitfire to be shot 1 on 1 vs the bf109. With some alt advantage I sucessfully engaged and shot down 2 or even 3 bf109's with the Spitfire without even being close to their gunsights several times.
However if you have a problem with particular situation, describe it in more detail and I'll do my best to explain you what to do in that situation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Either way, I need more input...

zoltank8
04-11-2007, 12:04 AM
Thanks. I've read In Pursuit and probably I'll re-read it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brian, if you feel like spending some time on this, I'll think of some situations that I commonly fail in...almost all of them in a dogfight anyway.

Say, there's 2 identical planes, same speed different altitude. Coming from opposite directions. The altitude difference is 500-1000 m. What are the most predictable moves they're going to make?

Another situation I usually cannot get out of is when I see a plane coming UP at me with some momentum while I'm flying level. Maybe I spot it too late and flying too slow but having some altitude advantage I should at least be able to dive away...

Usually I misjudge distances I am afraid and also make the bad move.

I know every situation is unique so it is practice that hones one's ability...only I am in certain situations when I should immediately ask sy what I did wrong...not to do it again under the same circumstances....

I've been flying for about 5 months now and I've definitely got much better then on day zero yet I am full of questions all the time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brain32
04-11-2007, 10:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Say, there's 2 identical planes, same speed different altitude. Coming from opposite directions. The altitude difference is 500-1000 m. What are the most predictable moves they're going to make? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wel it's hard to say what is the most predictable move, as humans are pretty unpredictable it also somewhat depends on the type of the plane too. It's sure that the higher guy holds the cards here. If I was the higher guy I would try to keep my alt advantage and even increase it if possible and then after the merge I would attempt to split-S on it's six, the lower guy is in trouble here, and he has to attempt to force the pilot that is in advantage to dump his E in order to engage in a fight on equal terms, he would need to attempt to lure his opponent into thinking that if he dumps E he will get a shot and then reverse on him, very hard thing to do if opponent is flying the same plane...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Another situation I usually cannot get out of is when I see a plane coming UP at me with some momentum while I'm flying level. Maybe I spot it too late and flying too slow but having some altitude advantage I should at least be able to dive away... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This also depends on the plane types, some planes will simply dive better than other, however you should never found yourself in trouble from a plane that comes from below you unless he actually dived in from higher alt gained a lot of speed and came to you with far more energy than you thought he should have. Judging energy state of the opponents plane is one of the hardest things to learn, you would be suprised how many il2 long timers are still pretty bad at it. I would say it can not be learned in the common sense of learning, in time and by flying various plane types, you simply get a feeling for it, but when you do a whole new perspective on combat value of many planes opens up...
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Usually I misjudge distances I am afraid and also make the bad move. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes this is a common problem, it's also related with visibility in il2 which I would rate as poor, planes have realistic size appearance only in fully zoomed in view and ofcourse you can't fly like that, however it comes in time, and also record your fights online and watch them afterwards, this is the most valuable tool for learning on your own mistakes...

zoltank8
04-12-2007, 12:39 AM
Thanks, Brian.

Yesterday when I was online I realized what my greatest of mistakes had been. I have heard "high and fast" countless of times but what fast means I completely misunderstood. I tried to correct this and wow....the change was ostentatious! Don't know what it was that brought my attention to my speed problem. It must have been some instinct. Or it was just a matter of time to spot my greatest of PROBLEM.

Until yesterday I simply did not care much about my speed. I climbed high, what I judged high enough, and usually reaching the altitude I was slow (300 kmh-ish) but I never noticed. I usually merged when high and slow and lost the fights too! Yesterday I made a point of picking up speed too (400+ kmh in level flight) before any dogfight and what a change! I'd been such a fool for soooooo many months!