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blazer-glory
01-07-2006, 04:54 PM
Im a little confused about how performing the scissor maneuver. Is it simply a wide zig zag path or is there a roll involved, like an over elaborate barrol roll?

blazer-glory
01-07-2006, 04:54 PM
Im a little confused about how performing the scissor maneuver. Is it simply a wide zig zag path or is there a roll involved, like an over elaborate barrol roll?

WWSensei
01-07-2006, 04:58 PM
The best read on Scissors...

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_054a.html

blazer-glory
01-07-2006, 05:34 PM
That answers it. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

jds1978
01-07-2006, 07:19 PM
try the scissors in the Anton or Dora and you will freak out how easy it is to get your kill http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

blazer-glory
01-08-2006, 01:14 AM
Really? I'll check it out although I guess its how dumb the pilot is thats chasing you. If he sees you pulling that maneuver then he should surely break off.

F19_Ob
01-08-2006, 03:21 AM
I'm not as positive as jds but....

The scissors is a good tactic for Fw190's but is hard to use well online.
A lot depends on how bad your opponent is and what he is flying.
The scissors may fool a spit, Lagg3, La5 or yak initially but an average pilot should be able to counter it.

Its still good to know the maneuver because against for example the late spits or in particulary La5F-FN it's hard to escape if they have their energy up.
So the scissors may prolong the time before one is shot down and sometimes friendlies may arrive in time to intervene.

With this said, I have outmaneuvered rookie pilots with scissor moves. They made too many misstakes. That wont happen with an experienced opponent so be mindful not to waste your energy if u don't have to.

Well, my opinion.

blazer-glory
01-08-2006, 05:50 AM
Any pointers on how I perform it? How big should the loop be for example?

Surely all the famous maneuvers are so well known now that they dont provide much help now,do they?

SeaFireLIV
01-08-2006, 07:03 AM
Ah, the scissors. A major question-mark for the longest time for me. I just couldn`t figure it out. Same with the barrell-roll. Best way is to join a squad and have them instruct you - best thing I ever did.

As for everyone knowing the move, maybe, but many guys are `fixated` on you by the time you begin the move and won`t brake away. Also the secret to the scissors is in `varying` and keeping your eye always on the bogey. I have extra variations I put to it, but I ain`t telling. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

That being said I still got my wing torn off yesterday when i thought I was doing an excellent scissors... maybe it was too excellent. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Xiolablu3
01-08-2006, 08:55 AM
Although scissors may be a good last resort, you should avoid doing this unless it is absolutely necesary. Even if you get your kill, another enemy only has to come along and you are slow and sometimes low (another scissors??!) in other words dead.

Also if he is a good pilot he can get you with a 90 degree deflection shot on your first weave, if it does not get you parallel or behind him.

I will ALWAYS shoot at a plane crossing my sights however big the deflection, he often has his cockpit facing you which is a bonus. You just have to line up where he is going to cross and keep your finger on the trigger when he is near the correct deflection.

As soon as he starts trying to scissors slam your throttle to 0% and you have a couple of chances to nail him as he weaves across your sights.

SeaFireLIV
01-08-2006, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
As soon as he starts trying to scissors slam your throttle to 0% and you have a couple of chances to nail him as he weaves across your sights. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes. This is what always troubles me about the scissors. I can always sense the pilot just waiting for me to cross his sites - and this is where I make my variations. It works quite well sometimes, but again, eventually they`ll figure it out if you don`t get behind them quickly or your wingman`s too slow.

Jetbuff
01-08-2006, 10:23 AM
For a scissors to work against anything but a rookie, a flight-path overshoot must have occured. i.e. you can't just initiate a scissors, you need your opponent to cross your extended 6. (preferably by a good angle and relatively close) Beyond that point it's a matter of timing, (to stay out-of-phase with the bandit) control, (to avoid too much cross controlling and a possible stall - this is where I really suck) and well-timed jinks. (to spoil any snapshot opportunities)

SithSpeeder
01-08-2006, 12:11 PM
Blazer--

There is a "flat scissors" (cutting back and forth in the same horizontal plane) and there is a "rolling scissors" which is is a 3-dimensional maneuver that involves (loosely) barrel rolling around an opponent who is doing something similar.

The "flat scissors" is: actually a series of nose-to-nose turns and overshoots performed by two fighters essentially in the same maneuver plane, each pilot attempting to get behind the other. (Fighter Combat, by Robert Shaw)

It is used typically by the slower of two similar turn capability fighters to gain an advantage. Or by a fighter who has a significant roll rate advantage (FW-190s, for example).

The "rolling scissors" is usually initiated by the higher speed fighter who is bouncing the lower speed fighter. The higher speed bouncer is trying to retain his energy as well as turn more efficiently using out of plane maneuvering.

I highly recommend Shaw's book on Fighter Combat (see Amazon.com)--a great read on stuff like this. You can find stuff on the internet, too, though (e.g., http://www.combataircraft.com/tactics/)

* _54th_Speeder *

Viper2005_
01-08-2006, 12:45 PM
Totally flat scissors are a bad idea because they present a snapshot opportunity to the other guy...

I generally put a small vertical component into my half of the scissor for this reason, whilst trying to take any snapshot I can get during the other half.

BfHeFwMe
01-08-2006, 02:24 PM
With cockpits on it's a snap to eat Fw's in a rolling scissors type manouver. When you see them groping and wobbling trying to find you in the canopy bars, that's when you position underneath and kill em.

Flat scissors they'll more than likely hit you with a destructive burst first, before any undermodeled allied firepower, where .50's = .22's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

bolillo_loco
01-09-2006, 06:44 AM
What's so confusing about scissors? It beats paper and only a rock beats scissors. Rock Paper Scissors is a fabulous game to play, and to this day I still settle disputes with it.