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DoggMaster
01-19-2005, 08:02 PM
Dear Oleg,
In the future, there are some possibility about a upgrade in Sturmovik series to something like Battlefield 1942 (EA Games), with first person combat, attachment to tanks and AAA? With the best quality of Sturmovik accomplish, should be the BEST GAME OF THE WORLD in WWII theme...
Doggmaster - Brazil

DoggMaster
01-19-2005, 08:02 PM
Dear Oleg,
In the future, there are some possibility about a upgrade in Sturmovik series to something like Battlefield 1942 (EA Games), with first person combat, attachment to tanks and AAA? With the best quality of Sturmovik accomplish, should be the BEST GAME OF THE WORLD in WWII theme...
Doggmaster - Brazil

TAGERT.
01-19-2005, 08:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DoggMaster:
Dear Oleg,
In the future, there are some possibility about a upgrade in Sturmovik series to something like Battlefield 1942 (EA Games), with first person combat, attachment to tanks and AAA? With the best quality of Sturmovik accomplish, should be the BEST GAME OF THE WORLD in WWII theme...
Doggmaster - Brazil <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The problem with trying to do it all.. You end up doing everything half a$$ed. BF1942 is a perfect example of this.. Take a look at the flight models in BF1942.. Total **** imho! I for one hope that Oleg keeps his focus on making the best flight sim.. nothing more.. nothing less.

VW-IceFire
01-19-2005, 08:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DoggMaster:
Dear Oleg,
In the future, there are some possibility about a upgrade in Sturmovik series to something like Battlefield 1942 (EA Games), with first person combat, attachment to tanks and AAA? With the best quality of Sturmovik accomplish, should be the BEST GAME OF THE WORLD in WWII theme...
Doggmaster - Brazil <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No thanks...focus on flying please. BF1942 like games can do the everything in one approach but never really truly do anything in detail.

WWMaxGunz
01-19-2005, 09:01 PM
Give it reasonable amount of time. Maybe 10 years for decent here and there, still not
everything or even close. For that... you should live so long! I probably won't.

crazyivan1970
01-19-2005, 10:09 PM
Combining Battlefield Command and BOB would make my day http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Daiichidoku
01-20-2005, 02:06 AM
No brainer here...agree with Tagert and Icefire

Bad enough ppl ooh and aah over water in a flight combat sim, and dev time and energy put into it....like gettiing clouds "just right" for a submarine sim...priorites, please FM/DMs and AIs flyable

Water in PF sucks, anyhow, IMO, was much better in FB...least you could tell where it is on FB maps...and when Im looking for wrecks-in-waiting at 5000m+ in my Jug, or pulling high G's at 250kph in a zero at 50m, water lapping at shores just doesnt hold my interest

Sorry for the tangent....ahem...yes, I agree with Tagert and Icefire

Fix everything else first, then I would love to putt about in a Kettenkrad

Sharpe26
01-20-2005, 02:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Combining Battlefield Command and BOB would make my day http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's how I felt (and feel) about IL2 and Wartime command

WOLFMondo
01-20-2005, 03:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DoggMaster:
Dear Oleg,
In the future, there are some possibility about a upgrade in Sturmovik series to something like Battlefield 1942 (EA Games), with first person combat, attachment to tanks and AAA? With the best quality of Sturmovik accomplish, should be the BEST GAME OF THE WORLD in WWII theme...
Doggmaster - Brazil <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The problem with trying to do it all.. You end up doing everything half a$$ed. BF1942 is a perfect example of this.. Take a look at the flight models in BF1942.. Total **** imho! I for one hope that Oleg keeps his focus on making the best flight sim.. nothing more.. nothing less. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BF1942 was an easy to pick up arcade game, it didn't boast about any correctness in anyway. Just a fun game to play with freinds online. Its totally unrealistic in every way but at no point did it ever say it was meant to mimic realism.

WWSensei
01-20-2005, 06:53 AM
WWIIOnline is a better example of trying to do it all than BF1942...

BF1942 doesn't even pretend to try and represent reality whereas WWIIOL makes an attempt.

FWIW, I don't like either of them.

TAGERT.
01-20-2005, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWSensei:
WWIIOnline is a better example of trying to do it all than BF1942...

BF1942 doesn't even pretend to try and represent reality whereas WWIIOL makes an attempt.

FWIW, I don't like either of them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True.. but it is not fair to comp IL2 to a monthly service that gets a big wad of money each month to add more things and polish what they have. Even with that I think the flight sim aspects of IL2PF are better than the ones in WW2OL.

TAGERT.
01-20-2005, 08:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
BF1942 was an easy to pick up arcade game, it didn't boast about any correctness in anyway. Just a fun game to play with freinds online. Its totally unrealistic in every way but at no point did it ever say it was meant to mimic realism. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True.. BF1942 is that.. But the statement still holds.. Given a fixed amount of time and money to develope something.. If you limit the development to one thnig (flying) instead of two things (flying and fps) you will do a better job on the one thing.. Because you can devote all your time and money to the one thing.

Raptor_20thFG
01-20-2005, 09:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DoggMaster:
Dear Oleg,
In the future, there are some possibility about a upgrade in Sturmovik series to something like Battlefield 1942 (EA Games), with first person combat, attachment to tanks and AAA? With the best quality of Sturmovik accomplish, should be the BEST GAME OF THE WORLD in WWII theme...
Doggmaster - Brazil <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The problem with trying to do it all.. You end up doing everything half a$$ed. BF1942 is a perfect example of this.. Take a look at the flight models in BF1942.. Total **** imho! I for one hope that Oleg keeps his focus on making the best flight sim.. nothing more.. nothing less. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with tagert and Icefire the bane of battlefield is yes you can do everything but you cant do anythig well flying sucks the tanks turn like pigs, basically a very arcadish game. This is also why I pray EA does not get its hands on us. IMHO

Chuck_Older
01-20-2005, 10:09 AM
I don't want a WWII game

I want a WWII flight simulation


But ORR would be funny if it was an 'all-round' WWII game forum
:
"Oleg, the Patch for the the US Navy Frogmen V2.04 is all wrong! A human can hold his breath for more than 2 minutes if he is taking no action! Please see this link to all sorts of charts and graphs that will make every moment of your waking life and many of those you spend sleeping a living hell"

WOLFMondo
01-20-2005, 11:20 AM
Gotta remember with BF1942, it wasn't ever meant to be a sim, its a game, pure and simple, it never meant to acheive realism 1 bit. Its the way it was designed to be. Mass market appeal.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
BF1942 was an easy to pick up arcade game, it didn't boast about any correctness in anyway. Just a fun game to play with freinds online. Its totally unrealistic in every way but at no point did it ever say it was meant to mimic realism. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True.. BF1942 is that.. But the statement still holds.. Given a fixed amount of time and money to develope something.. If you limit the development to one thnig (flying) instead of two things (flying and fps) you will do a better job on the one thing.. Because you can devote all your time and money to the one thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With BF1942, apart from mass appear as an easy game to pick and feel like your in a movie type thing is the power of PC's when it was made. Map sizes, graphics, sound, objects, all had to work with hardware 2 years ago which limited the depth that the modelling could take. Maybe in the future when PC's are that powerful we can have a realistic BF1942 style sim but its not going to happen for years. I guess Soldner and Joint Operations are starting to go that way but there still very simple when it comes down to it, neither a tank sim or flight sim but solid and fun FPS games.

Stiglr
01-20-2005, 05:02 PM
I can see both sides of the issue.

On the one hand, doing one thing well is its own reward. This sim has so many problems doing just flight well, it would be way too much to ask to require it become a "better version of Panzer Elite", too.

On the other hand, while I didn't think much of its flight module, WWIIOL had a very nice armor module. I never tried the FPS soldier module, having no interest at all in that, but there were some players who never did anything BUT that. So, WWIIOL had cadres of players who only used one of the 3 major modules (I won't count the fourth module, the ships, since that never got very developed).

Still, where WWIIOL fails to this day is that the combined effect has no feel of a real war, which is the reasoning for combining 4 types of sim into one big effort in the first place. They've never solved the bigger, core issues of ORGANIZATION, MARTIAL LAW (you can't have armies of people roaming around without centralized command), and the big one, PERSISTANCE (having a 24-hour, continuous situation when the real players are not always "living" in their skins 24-game-hours-a-"day".

It's an admirable goal, but I can't see it happening given the HUGE scope of war, and the limited number of dorks like us who would put forth the time and effort to actually participate in it.

I feel that of all the genres of war, the air game is a perfect one to "isolate" from other forms, because the number of players (pilots) doesn't necessarily have to to be large, and it can both interact and be isolated from the other forms (e.g., the "targets" and "objectives" on the ground) without killing believability.

In an air game, the tanks, the ships, the buildings should serve one purpose only: as TARGETS to be destroyed or to defend. To allow them to serve any other function, you'll find players use them to "serve the air goals" when it should be the aircraft serving the surface goals.

Amon26
01-20-2005, 07:18 PM
Well put, Stiglr. The idea of an ongoing "war-world" would be a nice idea but there are too many complications with creating it.

Right now and the near-futre we have to settle with what we have to work with. Keyboards, joysticks, and mice can only go so far.

I have to agree with Doggmaster though, the idea of being able to see a period of time in a simulated war from multiple, detailed perspectives is luring.

heywooood
01-20-2005, 08:19 PM
just buy the best flight sim...and then the best armour sim...and then the best naval warfare sim...and finally the best fps soldier skirmish sim...and then do what you want to do.

asking for all that to be done in one product, or even trying to do any two at once, is whacky at best....well, maybe mixing an armour sim and an fps soldier squad deal would be doable...but practical?...forgetaboutit.

TAGERT.
01-21-2005, 12:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Gotta remember with BF1942, it wasn't ever meant to be a sim, its a game, pure and simple, it never meant to acheive realism 1 bit. Its the way it was designed to be. Mass market appeal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True.. BF1942 is that.. But the statement still holds.. Given a fixed amount of time and money to develope something.. If you limit the development to one thnig (flying) instead of two things (flying and fps) you will do a better job on the one thing.. Because you can devote all your time and money to the one thing.

Blackdog5555
01-21-2005, 04:04 AM
I would love a full immersion sim game. For offline, FB/PF has no storyline. combining the human characters and true life historical drama of a "Brothers in Arms" with the IL2 BoB would be a blast. i would pay a premium for something that would capture true immersion. Most are happy with just flying..thats ok. But for me I need/want more then just a flight sim with target shooting. Im sure im a few years. It would be a very expensive project to do it right. not half a*s like BF1942, but right. most wouldnt want to pay $100 for a true game like that, i think. i would. Cheers...keep dreaming.LOL

Potatodip
01-21-2005, 04:15 AM
hmmm...WWIIOL...in the past the thing i realy dislikes with that game was the "camping" feber, camp a spawn point win the town...not funny...That part is gone now (actualy signed up again after 1 year away)The game have its limits, alot of Rambos hanging around, but also two high commands with alot of members...Last sat i was in a combined attack in the southern fron section, 50 tanks 2-300 inf aircover artellery..all starting the same time...that was cool.....but again..what you win at the evening you might have lost when you come home from work and you couldnt do a thing about it. But for the WWII gamers it is the best on the market right now.....but again..you have to like the game before you can enjoy it......

WOLFMondo
01-21-2005, 06:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Gotta remember with BF1942, it wasn't ever meant to be a sim, its a game, pure and simple, it never meant to acheive realism 1 bit. Its the way it was designed to be. Mass market appeal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>True.. BF1942 is that.. But the statement still holds.. Given a fixed amount of time and money to develope something.. If you limit the development to one thnig (flying) instead of two things (flying and fps) you will do a better job on the one thing.. Because you can devote all your time and money to the one thing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Totally agree there but we can't forget development costs are half the problem, PC's would need to be allot more powerful to have a complete WW2 sim of any quality. Imagine the power needed to have planes, tanks, ships etc all of the quality of FB/PF as well as soldier with the depth of FPS shooters like America's Army or RvS or Ghost Recon and a working physics engine that works for every thing. Thats quite some feat of software engineering.

DoggMaster
01-21-2005, 07:28 AM
It is obvious that I don't want to compare the brilliant idea of Oleg whith the lack of identity of BF1942 (in spite of me to consider a great game). It is not this the purpose of my comment. I am impassioned by this game, but I consider certain possibilities, that some would identify exactly with the ones that love him. Things how to be dropped and to walk to locate a base and to catch another airplane and to continue in the battle, and simply not to reverse-begin. To combat the enemy in ground for not being captured. This doesn't escape from the focus of the game, you would continue being a pilot, same reason I don't get to be in ground...
It was announced about the possibility in the pacific fighters of her to get to catch other airplanes if you were dropped. I didn't get this, if somebody knows as this is made, I would thank the information.
There were other updatings, as for instance the cockpit, but they could have other more immediate for doing front to CF3, as for instance the use in common of the bombardiers, making possible the use of the weapons of the same airplane for several combatants on-line. It was commented on that this game is for amusement among friends and it is thinking about these friends that don't pilot but that would like to participate in the game that I commented on on this also. It is of this integration type that me leaning and it would be very good if it was put in practice.
DOGGMASTER

DoggMaster
01-21-2005, 07:52 AM
Really, my dear WOLFMondo, the current computers would not support such processing without a loss of considerable quality. But I believe in them possibility of this developers team that make our happiness with their updatings and so in the miracles of the technology.... lol

Aaron_GT
01-21-2005, 08:41 AM
Very valid points, Stiglr.

The FMs in WW2OL aren't totally awful, just not as good as some.

Warbirds 3 and Aces High have armour components, but they are very basic.

The infantry component of WW2OL has good visibility distances but suffers from low quality graphics (perhaps these two facts aren't totally unconnected) and is a bit clunky in terms of the interface. If they could combine a flexible system of equipment (at least as good as Operation Flashpoint, preferably more like Hidden and Dangerous 2) and better graphics (at least as good as Operation Flashpoint, but preferably as good as Hidden and Dangerous 2) it would be an improvement.

But ultimately the big lack in WW2OL is that it is all a bit disorganised. It can be fun when you get a food engagement but unless you are in a squad that plays regularly you aren't going to get a good tactical combat feel. And the strategic feeling isn't great - it is more a slog. But then some of this lack of decent tactical feel is true in IL2 unless you do coops with a squad, which is the best way to do things IMHO.

It would be great to be able to combine Oleg's WW2 RTS with BoB or something so you could have players controlling the ground war in real time. That could be fun from both ends. And then some link such into a strategic engine would be fantastic. By BoB I mean more the BoB engine, if it was applied to the Battle of France, Operation Sealion, and later to D-Day, North Africa etc.

AB_Zipper
01-21-2005, 08:56 AM
Hmmm... with all the new copy right laws coming out, It might be imposable to make a new WWII game I'd say that all we can do is invest in new engine models that would allow multiplying, with the new 128 player rooms coming out, you would have up to 64 players on one team, half of those slots would be flying, it's possible.

Chuck_Older
01-21-2005, 10:12 AM
What new copyright laws? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

AB_Zipper
01-21-2005, 10:59 AM
I say new but, it's really the new breed of lawyers out to make a buck and companies buying up all the copy right!

Bearcat99
01-21-2005, 04:28 PM
No offense guys.. but in light of Ivans post about ORR I am locking this topic and because it is so interesting I will copy it to the GD where it can continue unmolested and flame free I hope.

civildog
01-21-2005, 04:42 PM
Steel Panthers:WAW

I know, I know...but it does have airstrikes in it and when I watch the little planes burn and crash into the ground it brings a tear to my eye in fond remembrance of my last FB dogfight.

And any game where the toolbox on a tank is part of the damage model is pretty dang immersive!!

JG52_wunsch
01-21-2005, 05:25 PM
couldn t you at least compare it to a good war game.battlefield is(was)the worst ww2 fps ever
made,imho.i m mostly talking about realism or lack there of,cheers.

Chuck_Older
01-21-2005, 06:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AB_Zipper:
I say new but, it's really the new breed of lawyers out to make a buck and companies buying up all the copy right! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, a lot of players don't understand the reason, but a company is forced to vigorously defend copyright infringement (among lots of other things)

The feeling among game players is: "Big deal, we are just having fun, and nobody gets hurt. Why are you picking on us?"

The feeling among people who own things that are used without proper permission is "There are consequences for violating our Rightsto things such as copyrights"

In this case, the game player's attitude is wrong. What can I say? These are the same type of things that I personally expect to exist to protect my rights, too. Can't have it both ways.

That said, we here at the forums really don't know the situation. Every day another conspiracy theory comes up about who what why and where, and nobody has any facts, it's all gut reaction and emotional response.

Don't assume that the game market is targetted; there's no money in it. Don't assume that they are out to get rid of 'fun', there's no money in it

But you can bet that they will protect things like copyrights, trade marks, etc., will all the power they can, because they don't want a precedent set that allows somebody else to rip them off later on and get away with it. Just because NGC is a big company, that doesn't make them automatically Wrong. It's the same type of thing that protects me if I own rights to something, is my take on it, and the game's great and all, but...I expect this to be there for me if I am in that situation

Speculation is fruitless...but just blaming Lawyers is wrong to assume. There's more lucrative things to go to court about. This is more of a "Protect ourselves now to protect ourselves in the future" thing to my logic. Kinda like US Constitutional Law to my view- might seem wacky, but it makes sure precedents aren't set that makes trouble later...and anyway, it's NGC's Right to protect itself. As a US citizen, I have to side with them. To not do so is basically to say that I feel that their Rights can be violated when it's convenient for me, even if they are gauranteed something by Law. So what's next? My property can be used without my consent because someone feels like it? I don't want that.

that's my take on it

Tully__
01-21-2005, 06:15 PM
Rather than an all in one game, I'd like to see the approach tried (rather poorly) by Silent Hunter II / Destroyer Command given a decent shot. A standard network protocol over a whole series of games with only the 3D models being universal in all games. Each individual game focuses on the speciality the player is interested in (submarines, destroyers, aircraft, armour, infantry etc...) but they are all interconnectible in multiplayer.

The downside of any game/game series of that nature is the need for a "super server" if you're to get enough players online in one scenario to make it realistic. This almost certainly means pay-to-play, at least for the next five years or so http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Owlsphone
01-21-2005, 06:23 PM
I remember many years ago when Jane's USAF was still being developed that there were plans to make an air combat game and perfect that, then a tank game, then a ship game...etc. These games would then all be combined to play against eachother. So in essence FB players could play against the Silent Hunters. These games would all be made by the same company of course, but I can see why the idea was never a reality. It would be way too hard to link multiple games together in an online world.

Great idea though.

Chuck_Older
01-21-2005, 06:49 PM
Microsquash never even integrated it's combat flight sims with it's civil sims