PDA

View Full Version : My late war plane set sea-level test.



XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:33 AM
These are the speeds I achieved at sea-level in test08 under the following circumstances: 25% fuel, all loadouts default, all plane tests performed one after the other in identical conditions, each plane tested twice (results were the same 100% of the time), cockpits off, all planes elevator's trimmed for exact level flight, all radiators closed, maximum boost/power, all planes flown off the edge of the same multiplayer map which leaves only flat ground.

All speeds in km/h:

P-39Q-10: 530
P-47D-27('44) 535
Yak-3: 561
109G-14: 564
Yak-9U: 566
FW-190A-8: 575
109K-4: 578
109G-6A/S: 579
FW-190A-9: 582
109G-10: 584
FW-190D('44): 592
FW-190D('45): 598
La-7(2x20mm): 603


Interesting. The La-7 and 190D are beasts, I might have to give up my A-9. The 190A8 and 190A-9 were the only planes that lumbered down the runway, all the other planes took off very well, some like rockets (La-7, 190D).

Enjoy.

Oh, and I would love for someone to post any climb rate tests (starting at sea-level and about 450km/h) with 08 involving these planes. Especially involving the 190D and A-9. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 08/11/0308:43AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:33 AM
These are the speeds I achieved at sea-level in test08 under the following circumstances: 25% fuel, all loadouts default, all plane tests performed one after the other in identical conditions, each plane tested twice (results were the same 100% of the time), cockpits off, all planes elevator's trimmed for exact level flight, all radiators closed, maximum boost/power, all planes flown off the edge of the same multiplayer map which leaves only flat ground.

All speeds in km/h:

P-39Q-10: 530
P-47D-27('44) 535
Yak-3: 561
109G-14: 564
Yak-9U: 566
FW-190A-8: 575
109K-4: 578
109G-6A/S: 579
FW-190A-9: 582
109G-10: 584
FW-190D('44): 592
FW-190D('45): 598
La-7(2x20mm): 603


Interesting. The La-7 and 190D are beasts, I might have to give up my A-9. The 190A8 and 190A-9 were the only planes that lumbered down the runway, all the other planes took off very well, some like rockets (La-7, 190D).

Enjoy.

Oh, and I would love for someone to post any climb rate tests (starting at sea-level and about 450km/h) with 08 involving these planes. Especially involving the 190D and A-9. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 08/11/0308:43AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:35 AM
8 out of top 10 are Luftwaffe planes.

Still, Lame-7 is the fastest, one might consider flying 262 if too many Lame-7s are about /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

<center>http://easyweb.globalnet.hr/easyweb/users/ntomlino/uploads/sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:47 AM
Salute

As usual, the P-47 is shortchanged and is too slow.

Should do at least 552 kph, with the tanks FULL.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 10:01 AM
Buzzsaw, you are probably right, but at least you can take comfort that the P-47 is the only plane here to exceed the speed indicated in the object viewer, if only by 1km/h. Most were 4-6km/h under. The 9U is way under the stated 575-600km/h. P-39 is under by 10km/h. 109's are all close, only being about 2km/h under. A-9 gets to 582, indicated is 585-595. Yak-3 and 190A-8 are under by about 5km/h. La-7 gets 603, indicated is up to 612km/h.

*I'm not saying these mean anything, just thought they were interesting. Much could change in 09, who knows.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 10:02 AM
RAF74BuzzsawXO wrote:
- Salute
-
- As usual, the P-47 is shortchanged and is too slow.
-
- Should do at least 552 kph, with the tanks FULL.
-
-

What's P 47 ? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Seriosuly, I believe you are correct about this.



<center>http://easyweb.globalnet.hr/easyweb/users/ntomlino/uploads/sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 10:20 AM
Why is it that in il2 the p39 was the crapy american ac now In FB p47 is getting Hacked as well

Dont get me wrong I like the p39 alot & flew it all the time In Il2

But I want to use the Jug for more than Ground pounding right now its set up to be a ground pounder imo

Oleg is robing this ac of its other roll as a fighter?

Top speed is wrong & the rollrate is C*rap

I know it could be differant after the final release but somehow I doubt it

<center><FONT COLOR="white">ӚFJ-M œ R D ˜ ӡ[/i]</font>

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1059752328.jpg </center>

<center><FONT COLOR="white">
I am He who lives, and was dead
and behold
I am alive forevermore.
I am the Alpha and the Omega
the Begining and the End.[/i]</font>

Message Edited on 08/11/0309:22AM by AFJ_Murdoc

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 10:40 AM
What the H##l !!
can´t you just wait pacth 1.1b

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:10 AM
Niko, in other threads some people were wondering. No harm in posting this, just thought some might find it interesting. And don't worry, I'll post the same thing once 1.1b comes out as well. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:42 AM
Interesting! The Dora's top speed is close to the actuall figures.

Notleistung (B4) mit Laderdruckerhoehung mit MW50 u. 1.8ata. =606km/h


Notleistung (C3) /Special Emergency =615km/h

However I'd like to see a Dora capable of this in-game!

Notleistung mit A Lader als Bodenmotor (Special Emergency with Compressor as Base-Engine) =640km/h!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Numbers taken from http://jagdhund.homestead.com/files/DoraData/horizontalgeschwindigkeiten.htm

http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/robban75/Highaltfight7.JPG


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

Message Edited on 08/11/0310:44AM by robban75

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:54 AM
AFJ_Murdoc wrote:
- Oleg is robing this ac of its other roll as a
- fighter?

a. Wait for the patch
b. The speed is only a little slow (about 10mph)
c. The roll rate _is_ off
d. It's never going to be a low altitude, low speed
turn and burn fighter, which seems to be the
derigeur fighting style of dogfight servers. So
Oleg isn't robbing it of an ability there, it is
just that the style of combat on DF servers is
a historical.
e. It may work much better with the patch and in scenarios
in which teamwork and high altitude are both employed,
which is where it excelled as a fighter.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 12:58 PM
in reality, only the prototype of La7 flew 597kph at SL. The serial planes did cca 592kph.



<center>http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/sig_il2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 05:22 PM
AFJ_Murdoc wrote:
-
- ...I want to use the Jug for more than Ground
- pounding right now its set up to be a ground pounder
- imo
-
- Oleg is robing this ac of its other roll as a
- fighter?
-
- Top speed is wrong & the rollrate is C*rap


Well... P-47s weren't so fast on a level, steady flight as we use to think, nor were they too good dogfighters when trying to catch a foe in a tight turn. They were terribly heavy and massive aircraft. But they were very sturdy, they had a overwhelming punch, and, due to their weight, nothing could beat them in a dive.

A Jug pilot should never try to fight in a turn against lighter, nimbler planes. The best tactics is to use it as a BnZ fighter, making hit and run attacks from a superior altitude. Then you'll find that it is amazingly fast... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif ...but not in a long, level cruise.





- Dux Corvan -

"It doesn't matter how good you are: In a crowded dogfight even the most experienced ace can be downed by a rookie; so, surviving an air war is just a matter of luck. However, an agressive attitude is the only one that gives you a chance to live, for runners are generally chased to death."
(Captain Lacalle, ace of the Republican Air Force during the Spanish Civil War.)

- Dux Corvan -

"It doesn't matter how good you are: In a crowded dogfight even the most experienced ace can be downed by a rookie; so, surviving an air war is just a matter of luck. However, an agressive attitude is the only one that gives you a chance to live, for runners are generally chased to death."
(Captain Lacalle, ace of the Republican Air Force during the Spanish Civil War.)

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 06:06 PM
Just this last week I whas testing the P-47. these are results:

Fule 100%

Amo Defoult

Alt 1000meter's 520kmph

Alt 6000meters's 520kmph

Alt 8000meters's 520kmph.

But this whas version 1.0



Silent out....

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 08:50 PM
jurinko wrote:
- in reality, only the prototype of La7 flew 597kph at
- SL. The serial planes did cca 592kph.

And due to its construction and wooden components its performance often deteriorated rapidly. Especially in warmer temperatures where the moisture would facilitate rot and fungus to develop, damaging the plane's performance. La-5/7s were not treated with chemicals to resist moisture and fungi. An entire squadron of La-7's sent to the Far East were scrapped before they ever flew a mission because of the effects of the environment on their airframes. I bet La jockeys are glad they are flying factory fresh machines. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Btw, this isn't a complaint or anything, I'm just throwing out some stuff I read.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:00 PM
Are these IAS or TAS values?

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:21 PM
Interesting stuff & appreciate you doing the testing. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Just one Q tho, 25% fuel for a Yak9DD or P-51 is a little diferent than 25% fuel for a Me 109 don't ya think ?




http://perso.wanadoo.fr/yak11/autresyaks/df002.jpg

"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:29 PM
Fuel doesn't seem to affect top speed.

In FB (beta08) the topspeed of a P-47 with 100% fuel is the same as with 25% fuel. its probably true for the other planes; I've never noticed a difference.

IRL some planes actually had a higher topspeed with more fuel, as a result of a lower drag CoG at that weight.

<div align=center>http://www.members.shaw.ca/fennec/plane.jpg </div><font size=-9>

Message Edited on 08/11/0302:31PM by StG77_Fennec

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 10:19 PM
Korolov, they were done with cockpit off so I guess that means TAS. The values were much different than indicated in speedbar.

Saburo, I just kept the fuel at 25% so they would all be the same to avoid confusion.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.



Message Edited on 08/11/0309:20PM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 10:21 PM
kyrule, he asked about the 520km/h of the P47 a few posts above and that's definately IAS.

-------------------
http://320015073007-0001.bei.t-online.de/il2-forum/signatur.gif
III/JG51_Atzebrueck

JG51 (http://www.jg51.de)
Virtual Online War (http://www.s-driess.de/vow/index.php?page=homeion=home)
"Ich bin ein Wurgerwhiner"

Message Edited on 08/11/0311:24PM by Atzebrueck

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 10:28 PM
Oh, I thought he was asking me about my test. Oops. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

Message Edited on 08/11/0309:28PM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:00 PM
just asking about hte fuel thing interesting that a full load could actually increase speed in some cases. . Cnat wait til tomorrow.!!!!

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/yak11/autresyaks/df002.jpg

"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:10 PM
I thought the K4 would have done better in this test.


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



JG27_Arklight
"Taking out the garbage since release"

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:16 PM
Hey, k-4 is higher alt stuff.
And it's not about top speed anyway.
It's all about the climb.
Don't tell me you've ever run away in a K-4?
Don't worry.
It rules.
The 190 is what everybody's interested about in the patch/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>http://users.compulink.gr/ilusin@e-free.gr/bf109[2)1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:25 PM
Just for your test I maganed 720 Km/h at 6,000meters in D-9 '45 model. 720Km/h is 450 mph!.

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:27 PM
StG77_Fennec wrote:
- Fuel doesn't seem to affect top speed.
-
- In FB (beta08) the topspeed of a P-47 with 100% fuel
- is the same as with 25% fuel. its probably true for
- the other planes; I've never noticed a difference.
-
- IRL some planes actually had a higher topspeed with
- more fuel, as a result of a lower drag CoG at that
- weight.
-
- <div align=center>http://www.members.shaw.ca/fennec/plane.jpg
- </div><font size=-9>
-
- Message Edited on 08/11/03 02:31PM by
- StG77_Fennec

Just so you know the fuel loadout does effect the aircrafts climb rate, its acceleration, and its stall characteristics in a high G turn..

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 12:00 AM
JV44Priller wrote:
- Just for your test I maganed 720 Km/h at 6,000meters
- in D-9 '45 model. 720Km/h is 450 mph!.
-
-

I'm not sure it was that fast, the D-12 however could attain 760km/h.


http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/robban75/Dora-9-3.JPG


'When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!'

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 12:40 AM
RAF74BuzzsawXO wrote:


As usual, the P-47 is shortchanged and is too slow.

Should do at least 552 kph, with the tanks FULL.


Hmmm thats what they say, but there can be factors involved, I will give you an example, I look after a Sia Marchetti Sf260 and that has a top speed straight and level at sea level of XYZ Knots...

well a friend I know went over to Italy to look at buying one and went up with an Italian Airforce officer on a test flight, the Aircraft failed to reach the figure by some 15 plus knots on full chat, commenting on it the Pilot pulled it up into a climb, then dove it back down till it was indicating XYZ and levelled it off again, sure enough it stayed there, it did not bleed off but maintained the speed, sometimes you just need to give em a little shove in the right direction to get it there.

Similar with that Low Level Spit Vid that was floating around here, well i was Chatting to the Spit Pilot at work today and he was telling me it is actually hard to keep it down like that as the Ground effect is so great, he says you have to hold the stick forward and push it down to keep it there. If he lets go, or relaxes the control pressure, ground effect pushes it back into a climb

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 03:01 AM
I don't know... a La7 outruning a K4??? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
Hmmmmmmmm....
strange...... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

<center>"The show must go on..."<center>
<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/iar81t.jpg </center>
<center>A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again<center>

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 03:27 AM
K-4 did 627km/h on my test. The rest of the figures barring 109s, are pretty close with kyrule's. Try the famous "103%" for the 109s - it does seem to make a dramatic difference.






-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 04:05 AM
It's a good thing the La is fast, because the only thing it will be able to do against a Dora post-patch is run, anyway.

The test08 Dora is just _wrong_.

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 04:25 AM
kyrule2 ..... Thank You for taking the effort

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 06:03 AM
Kweasa, are you using test08, I don't think the 103% thing works any more but I may be wrong. 578km/h is about right for the 109K-4, at least according to the object viewer. All the 109's are very close to their stated numbers, which is more than some planes can say.

In a matter of moments we will have 1.1b anyway and there will be much rejoicing. I'll probably post the same thing again the day the patch comes out (today/tommorw). I love testing. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

No problem Badsight, and thank you.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors", by Nicolas Trudgian.

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 10:34 AM
sealevel

a8 reach with 1,42ata (1750ps) 571km/h /eric brown test



erh¶hten ladedruck 1,65ata (2050PS) 585km/h

a5 without bombrach 1,42ata 580km/h

erh¶hten ladedruck 1,65ata a5 595km/h sealevel


dora has lower drag as a5, because not radial engine and outercannon

read objectdata, remove outercannon increase speed 10km/h by 190

dora 615km/h sealevel with 2250ps should be possible



interesting data from philippe willaume,
believe he write book over 190


http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22560&pagenumber=2


nice option would be that we could remove outercannon

in game get you then bombrack therefor,so not advantage

a5 is then 10km/h faster sealevel and improvement maneuver,climb accelerate

little over 600km/h sealevel, can you need against la-5fn 43 server


Message Edited on 08/12/0302:45PM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 01:41 PM
Skalgrim:

I couldn't get your link concerning Phillip Willaume to work. Doesn't he do some consulting with Oleg concerning the FW190?

Also, could you please provide the source for the 1.65 ata and coresponding speed figures on the A-5 and A-8?

I have some charts buried away somewhere...

I would like to know how often A-series Focke-Wulf were optimised for dogfighting by removing both the outer cannons and the bombrack.


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 10:12 AM
FW190fan

- I couldn't get your link concerning Phillip Willaume
- to work. Doesn't he do some consulting with Oleg
- concerning the FW190?


perhaps find you there hints of willaume work

butch2k forum

http://pub131.ezboard.com/ballboutwarfare


http://pub157.ezboard.com/bluftwaffeexperten71774

perhaps was is too in those forum mention that he book write,long ago


- Also, could you please provide the source for the
- 1.65 ata and coresponding speed figures on the A-5
- and A-8?

think isegrim has some data,he is so many forum to hunt source

in butch2k forum has you good chance many orginal data to get

or better ask butch2k there


- I would like to know how often A-series Focke-Wulf
- were optimised for dogfighting by removing both the
- outer cannons and the bombrack.

oleg had post that 190 was often fly without outercannon for better maneuver

too bad,he public not the source

when 190 was fly without outer cannons for better dogfighting,

was they certain not fly with bombrack,seem not logic

that means we have not option for remove outer cannos for better doghfighting

this would 190 make much more interesting bird

think,the problem is for oleg that flighmodel for a8/a9 strong change,



Message Edited on 08/13/0312:29PM by Skalgrim