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View Full Version : I don't understand one thing about the Zero speed gauge...



XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 10:41 AM
In FB this gauge is marked at 300 (some units). I've searched the internet for some high quality images of the Zero cockpit where I can see the instruments nicely and indeed I've found one where the speedo does show being marked at this 300 "units".

I've also checked numerous different websites having references from books and magazines on the Zero and Zero's variants (inluding A6M5a we have in FB) and there was only a single reference of A6M5a dive speed of 460Mph. On numerous other sources it is stated that this max dive speed was about 410Mph and in one case 400KTS (or 435Mph).

I seriously doubt the source stating it could do 460Mph and by some scientific aproach this highest value should not be taken as the correct one especially as it deviates greatly from great majority of values of all other sources.

Also I can not understand that an aircraft that could do this 400-435Mph in reality has speed indicator marked at only 300Mph? I mean, even if the units of the speedo were knots this is still only 325Mph which is well bellow the "recorded" 410-435Mph??? How can the pilot go into a high speed dive in which he would do well above the instrumets indicated speed and know when "it's enough" so he does not reach the speed at which his Zero would literally lose its wings bringing him to his death?

EDIT:

Let me just add, before some says this 300KTS is IAS and TAS is much higher, that the P-40 has its speedo marked at 500Mph which is also IAS meaning its TAS is much greater then 500Mph and yet... in FB Zero lacks the P-40 less then 50Mph in a dive??? That just does not add up. :|

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Message Edited on 11/14/0307:50PM by RAAF_Edin

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 10:41 AM
In FB this gauge is marked at 300 (some units). I've searched the internet for some high quality images of the Zero cockpit where I can see the instruments nicely and indeed I've found one where the speedo does show being marked at this 300 "units".

I've also checked numerous different websites having references from books and magazines on the Zero and Zero's variants (inluding A6M5a we have in FB) and there was only a single reference of A6M5a dive speed of 460Mph. On numerous other sources it is stated that this max dive speed was about 410Mph and in one case 400KTS (or 435Mph).

I seriously doubt the source stating it could do 460Mph and by some scientific aproach this highest value should not be taken as the correct one especially as it deviates greatly from great majority of values of all other sources.

Also I can not understand that an aircraft that could do this 400-435Mph in reality has speed indicator marked at only 300Mph? I mean, even if the units of the speedo were knots this is still only 325Mph which is well bellow the "recorded" 410-435Mph??? How can the pilot go into a high speed dive in which he would do well above the instrumets indicated speed and know when "it's enough" so he does not reach the speed at which his Zero would literally lose its wings bringing him to his death?

EDIT:

Let me just add, before some says this 300KTS is IAS and TAS is much higher, that the P-40 has its speedo marked at 500Mph which is also IAS meaning its TAS is much greater then 500Mph and yet... in FB Zero lacks the P-40 less then 50Mph in a dive??? That just does not add up. :|

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Message Edited on 11/14/0307:50PM by RAAF_Edin

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 10:51 AM
its a bug, thats all /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 10:53 AM
this bug really starting to get on my nerves /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 09:26 PM
Is it just me or is it measureing KPH instead of knots in the game?

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 10:15 PM
I think you will find the speedometer reads up to 350 MPH

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/291003-01anoseart_us_08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 12:35 AM
Well, the A6M3 at the CAF based at CMA suggests that their ASI is indicated in knots. and by the way 400KTS doesn't equal 435Mph, its 460 mph ;-)

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XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 02:27 AM
TX-EcoDragon wrote:
- Well, the A6M3 at the CAF based at CMA suggests that
- their ASI is indicated in knots. and by the way
- 400KTS doesn't equal 435Mph, its 460 mph ;-)

400KTS = 400 Nautical Mph = 400 * 1.84 KMph = 736 Kmph = 736 / 1.6 Mph = 460 Mph

Edit: corrected

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Message Edited on 11/15/0301:23PM by RAAF_Edin

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 02:31 AM
elvive wrote:
- I think you will find the speedometer reads up to
- 350 MPH

I found that the speedo reads up to 300... not 350.

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XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 03:28 AM
"oh yeah... and how is that?

400KTS = 400 Nautical Mph = 400 * 1.74 KMph = 696 Kmph = 696 / 1.6 Mph = 435 Mph

I'd like to see how your maths works."

I dunno how his math works, cause I get 461mph from 400 knots.

Your math looks kinda fubar though.

1 Knot = 1.152mph = 1.85 kph

or at least that's what

http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~rhill/conversion/windspd.htm

says.

I havn't looked much at the ASI in question, but i'll bet it somehow reads to 350.

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 04:00 AM
The Zero ASI has 2 scales on the one instrument and it is in KMH.

The low speed scale is read by reference to the needle on the outer scale. Above 160Kmh you read by referencing the needle position to the inner scale.

So at 300KMH the needle cuts the inner scale at 300Kmh but the pointer (that you now ignore because you are in the high speed regime) points to 150KMH.

So below 160 use the outer scale
Above 160 use the inner scale

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XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 04:05 AM
Its in knots. Thats all. Now there is a problem with the altimeter. It does not work over 5000m

http://www.fargoairmuseum.org/zero-105-over-rabaul.jpg

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XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 04:20 AM
Alright... 1Knot = 1.151 Mph making 400Mts = 460Mph. Obviously I should have checked better so sorry about that. I am still wondering what units the speedo in Zero was /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Kmph, Mph or even Kts is still way too low if it could do 400Kts in a dive... just how did the pilot know what speed he was doing?

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XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 09:47 AM
This A6M3 is in knots, and does technically go up to 400 (though in this case the indications on the face make that look like a bad idea!) Though the altimeter doesn't look original, the ASI looks like it may in fact be. I will check and report back. I used to work with the CAF that now has this aircraft.


http://www.avweb.com/newspics/185502_zero_forward_left_panel.jpg

Here is the original page:

http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/185520-1.html

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Message Edited on 11/15/0312:50AM by TX-EcoDragon

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2003, 10:00 AM
I doubt even the speedo is original... KTS in an abreviation of an english word... 'knots' Surely japanese language has a character for it but still let's see what info you come up with.

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XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 01:40 AM
"I am still wondering what units the speedo in Zero was Kmph, Mph or even Kts is still way too low if it could do 400Kts in a dive... just how did the pilot know what speed he was doing?"

maybe the same way a Bf109 pilot does, cause their ASI only goes to 750. FW190D goes to 900 (though ingame the plane can go 940) so that is more useful, but last time I checked a K4 can dive at a higher speed that a D9.

Some ingame testing shows that the guage in the cockpit ingame reads in KPH.

Perhaps the pilot was only thought to need to know his speed for landing and cruising (to calculate distance), not for diving (based on their designs I don't think high speeds and diving were part of their combat philosophy). They don't need pilot armour, they don't need armoured fuel tanks, all one needs to fight is spirit anyway, so who needs guages? I have never flown a plane, but when I drive a car i'm used to, I can tell how fast it is going without a guage.

Things may not make sense to you (or me even) but we didn't build the plane, they did, and that it made sense to them is all that matters. Keep in mind that their commanders were drawing sabres to charge the enemy, and that their philosophy did not necessarily see a need for guages the way we do now. Use the Force Luke!

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 03:04 AM
The way I see it is that in engagements with the Zero's, P-40 pilots had to stick to the rule which says never to turn and dogfight it or they will end up dead for sure. They had to pick their targets by staying above and dive through the formation and extend back up for another pass. If in trouble all the P-40 had to do is quickly roll inverted and dive... the Zero (in real life) could not follow as it accelerated slower in a dive and it could not dive as fast as P-40. Now, the A6M5a model of the Zero (apparently) could dive much faster then all other Zero's so it could keep up with the P-40 little longer. The only reason why A6M5a had tougher wing skin is so it could stay with US planes in a dive (but still it's controls were not redesigned meaning it would still lock up in that dive like any other Zero). Reason I wonder about this a lot is because if the speedo was unchanged and still read only up to 300Kts and if Zero was to dive till 400Kts to keep up with, say P-40, the pilot then didn't know when he would push his Zero to the limit and would lose it's wings or to be safe he wouldn't be diving that fast (max dive speed) in the first place.

I think though, if we play FB with forced cockpit and no speedbar etc (ie. full real setting) who ever flies the Zero will have same "problem" on his hands... he will be able to know his speed untill that 300 marked on the speedo and anything above that and he could face loosing his wings.

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