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View Full Version : So did engines really fall of planes, as they do in FB when damaged?



XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 03:13 PM
Really?

I have an excellent video of guncam footage from WW2 and not one engine falls of any plane!! Just curious!!

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 03:13 PM
Really?

I have an excellent video of guncam footage from WW2 and not one engine falls of any plane!! Just curious!!

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 03:14 PM
I'm pretty sure I've seen B-17's missing engines and the like.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 03:17 PM
I`m pretty sure it`s realistic. Original footage is good, but it won`t show every type of way an aircraft can go down. We`re talking WWII cameras here, not computer aided technology and even now we`d still be hard pressed to get real life footage of enemy aircraft in various modes of destruction.

Best bet is to read up on pilot experiences and what they saw/felt happened to them. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 03:25 PM
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/ce29-2.jpg


Yes they did.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 03:44 PM
That's "fall off", I think you'll find./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<center>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steve.gorman/mortimer3.jpg

Nevermore!</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 03:52 PM
wow. The Pilots in legodragonxp`s photo must be praying very hard at that moment!





"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 04:46 PM
Thats a vary famous image. The plane crashed moments later with no parachutes seen /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 05:43 PM
Indeed they do and still can, I remember a Navajo in the UK a few years back lost a prop blade inflight that passed straight through the nose and hit the other engine taking it out as well. The first engine now running out of balance tore itself out of the airframe and dissapeared earthwards, luckily for the passengers the pilot was an ex test pilot recently retired from the RAF who managed to recover it from the ensuing spin and put it down without loss of life, managing to side slip it under some powercables and wheels up crash land it into a field. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 05:53 PM
<img src=http://www.wpafb.af.il/museum/history/wwii/ce29-2.jpg>



Read the CAPTION: "FLAK blows...bla bla"
You can also remember another faimos pic, the B-17 receiving a 88mm blow betwen engines 1 and 2, the wing folds, etc, etc.


BUT, a 20mm projectile, even a 30.37mm one should NOT be able to do this...

MAYBE, the MK-101(Hs-129), MK-103 and the Yak-9K's 45mm gun could be able to do this...

The 88mm flak guns were also used with AWESOME SUCCES as tank busters,... just to imagine the forces its shot packed.

Another thing...the engines are connected to the fuselage, wing, etc...using a special framed structure...they need to pull the aircraft with them (2-15 tones!!!), so imagine my scepticism when I see a wieny 20mm projectile shooting of and engine...

In a word? SPECIAL EFFECTS FOR THE NEWCOMERS FROM CFS 3, or Battlefield 1942.


<center><img src=http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~socrate/bazu11.jpg>

Message Edited on 09/08/0304:54PM by sobolan

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:01 PM
- Read the CAPTION: "FLAK blows...bla bla"
- You can also remember another faimos pic, the B-17
- receiving a 88mm blow betwen engines 1 and 2, the
- wing folds, etc, etc.

B-24.

- BUT, a 20mm projectile, even a 30.37mm one should
- NOT be able to do this...

There's no reason why it can't happen.


- Another thing...the engines are connected to the
- fuselage, wing, etc...using a special framed
- structure...they need to pull the aircraft with them
- (2-15 tones!!!), so imagine my scepticism when I see
- a wieny 20mm projectile shooting of and engine...


Engines are usually held in place by just a few bolts. Strong bolts, but still only a few (maybe 4). Destroy a couple of those, or compromise the structure it attaches to and the engine will tear loose.

There's also the possibility that the shot isn't breaking the engine free directly, but is blowing off a large section of the prop and the resulting imbalance is wrenching the engine from its mounts. It can only take a few seconds for that to happen, depending on the damage done.

In any case, I don't see engines in FB dropping off all the time, and I wouldn't consider it excessive. Sometimes it happens, but usually it doesn't, just like in the real world.

- In a word? SPECIAL EFFECTS FOR THE NEWCOMERS FROM
- CFS 3, or Battlefield 1942.

That's a sentence.


Message Edited on 09/08/0305:07PM by BinaryFalcon

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:14 PM
...and it still happens...some years ago a 747 of El Al lost an engine here above my hometomn Amsterdam and crashed into a populated part of town. Many people died...

<center>http://members.ams.chello.nl/pgkiljan/il2/jug.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:20 PM
...and it still happens...some years ago a 747 of El Al lost an engine here above my hometomn Amsterdam and crashed into a populated part of town. Many people died...

<center>http://members.ams.chello.nl/pgkiljan/il2/jug.jpg

<center>http://members.ams.chello.nl/pgkiljan/il2/jug.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:20 PM
BinaryFalcon wrote:


"There's also the possibility that the shot isn't breaking the engine free directly, but is blowing off a large section of the prop and the resulting imbalance is wrenching the engine from its mounts. It can only take a few seconds for that to happen, depending on the damage done."



BinaryFalcon, makes a lot of sense. All those feeling like whining for no good reason, like sobolan, should read and ask forgiveness. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 06:21 PM
Yep! They get their flimsy mounts shot out and with all that stress happening with full power and manuvering; it easily happens. I know a B-29 co-pilot who has a purple heart from when an engine from an emeny plane fell off and clipped the front end of his plane!!!

Luckyboy310th = senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 07:38 PM
This does happen. I read a story by a pilot in the pacific. He recounted shooting the engine right off of a japanese plane over the phillipines. It was a fighter, I think an Oscar.

Just imagine hitting a fighter at convergence distance right in front of the cockpit. You can easily imagine how the engine mounts could be chewed up so badly that the still working engine just tears itself free. It doesn't take an 88mm to cause damage to the engine mounts. But this was rare. I haven't read much about this happening. You would have to hit the engine mounts just right.


Kalo

XyZspineZyX
09-08-2003, 07:49 PM
Also, if an engine is hit it might stop instantly and the resulting torque will rip it off.