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View Full Version : Ok, what just happened to my BF-109E4??? (Engine inoperable during flight!)



cawimmer430
06-26-2007, 09:52 AM
Ok, so I was flying offline in the BF-109E4 against two P-40s in the Crimea region, away from the AAA ships. I managed to shoot down one P-40 and severely damage the second. The second P-40 heads for home trailing smoke and I line up behind him to finish him off when all of a sudden my engine stops dead, the propeller doesn't move and I get a "engine inoperable" message. First thing I do is check my fuel level, 3/4 full. Then I attempt to restart the engine. Nothing. Looks like she's really gone. So I belly landed (and really messed up my engine in the process! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif) and walked away...

Now, from the moment the mission started I veered left, away from the AAA fire from the ships (Crimea) and I don't recall at all being shot at all. There was a time when one of the P-40s was behind me but he didn't hit me at all.

My engine also didn't make any of those cutting out sounds before it dies. You know, the low whistling sound when your oil cooler is damaged? None of that. The plane was working perfectly fine. I had full power when I needed it and it responded perfectly to input.

I don't have track because I don't know how to use it, never bothered to save them either. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


I am intrigued by this. Did Oleg include a sort of "engine reliability software" that randomly causes your engine to fail, even when seconds before everything was working fine? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

foxyboy1964
06-26-2007, 10:03 AM
Over reved on manual prop pitch maybe?

cawimmer430
06-26-2007, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
Over reved on manual prop pitch maybe?

I wasn't diving though. I was flying level about 300 meters behind the damaged P-40 with around 70-80% engine power. And all of a sudden my engine stops. Weird. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

If it's an engine reliability code, I think it's pretty cool though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

foxyboy1964
06-26-2007, 10:13 AM
If it had been over reved you would have heard the engine sounding like a hair dryer on steroids. But one of the reasons I dont use the 109's is because it is VERY easy to cook the engine. I dont think you would need to be in a dive.

SlickStick
06-26-2007, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by cawimmer430:
I don't have track because I don't know how to use it, never bothered to save them either. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

For future reference, in the Controls section, assign a key to "Quick Record" or whatever it's called as I'm not in front of my game at the moment, and use this to toggle on and off an .NTRK recording while in-game offline or online. Each time you start and stop an .NTRK, they are saved automatically in the "Records" folder in numerical order.

As for your engine, I'm suspecting even though you were away from AAA, sometimes they will still be shooting at you from afar and possibly they scored a golden BB to your engine. I've been hit by AAA that seemed out of range in the past.

Now that you know how to record .NTRKs, you'll be able to go back and see what happened next time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Heliopause
06-26-2007, 10:37 AM
Did you use GM-1?

Low_Flyer_MkVb
06-26-2007, 10:45 AM
Well, I had a weird one a few nights ago. Not me, but my number three. I set a UQMG mission, Flying Tigers over the Singapore map, flight of four Hawks on a ground attack run. It set up as a carrier op (air start), but I digress.

Deciding on a long slow descent starting at the coast, my number three gave it the old 'Mayday! Mayday! I'm going down!' I put it down to flak and continued with what I thought was the remaining three planes in my flight. Having given the enemy collumn a good seeing to, I headed for home. In fact I just ended the flight, couldn't be arsed with a carrier landing in that plane. So I played the track and saw what happened to my number three.

As we crossed the coast, losing height in a very shallow dive, flak behind us, he began to wobble. He was all over the place. Like the newest noob you ever did see, trying to trim the plane with a very heavy hand. He collided with my number four - I hadn't even missed him until this point. So...new-fangled AI fallability or cr@p programming?

I noticed all the Spits in my last missions flying around with full rudder to keep straight too,...bug, or fantastic realistic touch?

Will keep an eye on enemy AI for a while.

JG53Frankyboy
06-26-2007, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
.......... But one of the reasons I dont use the 109's is because it is VERY easy to cook the engine.............

actually not in my experience !
if you take care in handling the MW50 and GM-1 systems (in variants that have that) - the 109 engines can run slightly over 5 minutes in engine overheat condition before they get damaged. so you have at least 4 save minutes to run in overheat - long time in combat.
and you can fly 109s with 103% throttle and cooler open , even with activatet MW50 (but dont forget to deactivate it after 26 minutes, when its fluid is empty) all time till the fuel is empty, with no overheat at all.

i know planes in game that will overheat with 100% thottle, 100% pitch with cooler open !
and sure, some can run in overheat for ~10 minutes too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and sure, you should not touch the manual propeller settings in DaimlerBenz driven german planes :
1. its not necesarry (it brings you no benefit anymore , like in the past - a patch changed that)
2. THAT can, wrong handeled, realy very fast kill your engine!

slipBall
06-26-2007, 10:52 AM
Most likely just one of those pesty Gremlins...if you pay no attention to him, it probably won't happen again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f394/SlipBall/PubTThou01.jpg

LStarosta
06-26-2007, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Heliopause:
Did you use GM-1?

109 E4 dun have GM-1.

foxyboy1964
06-26-2007, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:2. THAT can, wrong handeled, realy very fast kill your engine!

Yeah thats what I mean. You've got to be very quick on the prop pitch in the 109's. I found I was spending more effort on watching PP than on anything else. Do we know if in real life the pilots left it on auto rather than manual?

foxyboy1964
06-26-2007, 11:03 AM
WOW SlipBall, that photo really freaked me out as I scrolled down the page http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif. Twighlight Zone, right?

slipBall
06-26-2007, 11:06 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

leitmotiv
06-26-2007, 11:06 AM
Lousy unleaded gas!

JG53Frankyboy
06-26-2007, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:2. THAT can, wrong handeled, realy very fast kill your engine!

Yeah thats what I mean. You've got to be very quick on the prop pitch in the 109's. I found I was spending more effort on watching PP than on anything else. Do we know if in real life the pilots left it on auto rather than manual? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
after the automatic systems were introduced - the idea behind that was that of a "one-lever-handling" to reduce the pilots work in handling the engine - it was normaly flown always in auto.

the first systems apperead AFAIK late in 1940 - so the most 109s during BoB flew with manual propeller only. the pitch was set with a lever on the cockpit panel (weird installation !! , you needed actually 3 hands to have all in control http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) or later with a thumbswitch on the throttle .

foxyboy1964
06-26-2007, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by slipBall:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

You're a bad, bad man http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

foxyboy1964
06-26-2007, 11:22 AM
Cheers for the info Frankyboy. Looks like I need to revisit the 109. I found that by using manual on the FW I got much better performance, so I assumed it would be the same on the bf.

JG53Frankyboy
06-26-2007, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
Cheers for the info Frankyboy. Looks like I need to revisit the 109. I found that by using manual on the FW I got much better performance, so I assumed it would be the same on the bf.

well, the Fw190s have a normal ConstantSpeedPropeller when beeing in manual mode - so you can fly them like the most planes in game that have also a CSP.

as a summary (sure, other people may have other experinces, but in general it will do it):
for all piston engined planes except:
Ki-27
J8A
TB-3s
Fw190 in auto mode
Spitfire IX and VIII in auto mode
Bf109, Bf110,Do335,Ta152C in manual and auto mode:
the prop pitch in game is controlling the engine revolutions - so 100% pitch here means you allow the egnine to run at max rpm if enough throttle/power is available.
in combat you shoud fly alwasys with 100%.
to lower your pitch is actually only necesarry if you want realy fly slow (that your comrades or the AI can close formation or you want safe fuel) , than you have to reduce the pitch like the throttle. same % rate or pitch 10% more than the throttle % is a good solution.

also using full throttle and useing only 90-95% pitch can reduce the overhat chance - usefull in some planes like the Tempest or the Corsair and Hellcat. that doesnt harm your speed/climb much, if at all !

very few planes in game are overrev in a power dive (full power, 100% pitch) - IIRC that are the Cr.42, G.50, Mc.200, Fw190A/F in manual mode, Fw190D/Ta152H, the Brewsters(not sure about that , may have changed in a patch)


Fw190 in auto mode
Spitfire IX and VIII in auto mode
Bf109, Bf110,Do335,Ta152C in auto mode:
have a one lever system, if you control the throttle, the pitch is automaticly also controled


Bf109, Bf110,Do335,Ta152C in manual mode:
thats totaly different, here you control the propeller pitch direclty ! no automatik will keep the rpm in a "good" condition. it brings you no benefit to use this manual settings anymore (there was a time ). so, dont bother it

the
Ki-27
J8A
TB-3s:
have fixed propellers, so nothing to control there

foxyboy1964
06-26-2007, 11:37 AM
Thanks again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif...I'll copy that to a text doc.

polak5
06-26-2007, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by cawimmer430:
Ok, so I was flying offline in the BF-109E4 against two P-40s in the Crimea region, away from the AAA ships. I managed to shoot down one P-40 and severely damage the second. The second P-40 heads for home trailing smoke and I line up behind him to finish him off when all of a sudden my engine stops dead, the propeller doesn't move and I get a "engine inoperable" message. First thing I do is check my fuel level, 3/4 full. Then I attempt to restart the engine. Nothing. Looks like she's really gone. So I belly landed (and really messed up my engine in the process! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif) and walked away...

Now, from the moment the mission started I veered left, away from the AAA fire from the ships (Crimea) and I don't recall at all being shot at all. There was a time when one of the P-40s was behind me but he didn't hit me at all.

My engine also didn't make any of those cutting out sounds before it dies. You know, the low whistling sound when your oil cooler is damaged? None of that. The plane was working perfectly fine. I had full power when I needed it and it responded perfectly to input.

I don't have track because I don't know how to use it, never bothered to save them either. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


I am intrigued by this. Did Oleg include a sort of "engine reliability software" that randomly causes your engine to fail, even when seconds before everything was working fine? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

feathered ur prop maybe??

Zoom2136
06-26-2007, 01:13 PM
Did you cut the magnito by mistake ???

This would stop the engine... but you would not have gotten the "engine inoparable" message ???

rnzoli
06-26-2007, 02:48 PM
The second P-40 heads for home trailing smoke and I line up behind him to finish him off when all of a sudden my engine stops dead, the propeller doesn't move and I get a "engine inoperable" message.
Reliability is not modelled. Most probably you collided with your target, or something that fell off from it. Once my friend chewed up my tail with his properllor, and got exactly the same message, same behavior. I went home with a kill http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

crucislancer
06-26-2007, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The second P-40 heads for home trailing smoke and I line up behind him to finish him off when all of a sudden my engine stops dead, the propeller doesn't move and I get a "engine inoperable" message.
Reliability is not modelled. Most probably you collided with your target, or something that fell off from it. Once my friend chewed up my tail with his properllor, and got exactly the same message, same behavior. I went home with a kill http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That has happened to me before as well. I wanted to see how I would fair in a Corsair against a bf109, and while I smoked him, a piece of his plane hit near the prop or engine, so he went down smoking, and I coasted in. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

crucislancer
06-26-2007, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
in combat you shoud fly alwasys with 100%.
to lower your pitch is actually only necesarry if you want realy fly slow (that your comrades or the AI can close formation or you want safe fuel) , than you have to reduce the pitch like the throttle. same % rate or pitch 10% more than the throttle % is a good solution.

I actually adjust my PP as needed. Lower if diving, higher or even 100% if level or climbing in combat. If I'm fighting something like a 109 while in a Tempest, and he dives, I'll lower my PP down quite a bit when I follow. I'll be on his tail the whole time. If I did the same thing at 100% pp, I would have to cut my throttle, and I won't have the speed I need to catch up. The prop will actually hold me back, since the engine is reving without any power behind it.



also using full throttle and useing only 90-95% pitch can reduce the overhat chance - usefull in some planes like the Tempest or the Corsair and Hellcat. that doesnt harm your speed/climb much, if at all !

Not sure about the Hellcat, since I rarely use it, but if I'm just cruising in the Tempest or Corsair, I'll set my PP at 70-80%, throttle at 99% (or 110% for Tempest) and rad open. Trim as well. I can usually cruise at 270 knots or so without overheating.

I don't bother with manual mode on the 109, either. I tried it, actually got the hang of it for a bit, and then realized that it didn't make much difference and I was burning out engines left and right when I made a small error, like forgettting to lower my PP in a dive.

cawimmer430
06-27-2007, 01:57 AM
Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies, possible answers and discussions. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I usually don't bother with complex engine management so I don't think it had something to do with my propeller pitch or engine overreving. I also didn't touch the magnetos.

Someone mentioned it could have been a lucky distance shot from a ship. Maybe, although I was pretty far away from the ships. I was pretty much in the vicinity of my friendly airfield with concrete runways.

I'm still baffled as to what this could be. Perhaps a P-40 did hit my engine when he was chasing me and I didn't notice but the engine would have made sounds or would not have given max power if something was wrong. I also didn't hit the damaged P-40 with my propeller. I was behind him at around 300 meters and closing fast when my engine just went stone cold dead.

Weird, but kind of cool. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SlickStick
06-27-2007, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by cawimmer430:
I was pretty much in the vicinity of my friendly airfield with concrete runways.


Were there friendly AAA at the base you were fighting near? It is possible you were hit by friendly fire?

I've experienced several kinds of engine hits in this sim. The one where you immediately hear the grinding and the engine quits very shortly thereafter with "Engine Inoperable" message; the one where you see instant, heavy black smoke and fire will soon follow; the one where light smoke is coming out and engine noise gets progressively "crunchy" over the next 5-10 minutes until failure; the one where your throttle is hit and the engine revs out of control and you lower pitch to attempt to control or the CSP is hit and you have to pull the throttle way down to stop the over-revving or both at the same time and the over-rev to grind-down happens quite quickly; and I've seen the instant engine stop hit that immediately seizes the engine, usually coming from ships or base AAA, but occassionally also from another plane.

tigertalon
06-27-2007, 09:44 AM
One not yet mentioned theory (low probability tho) is that your engine was damaged by a richochet/splinter of your own cannon shells hitting enemy plane. On more than one occasion it happened to me, when I used (large) caliber cannons on the enemy from literally point blank range that my own plane also received hits from the explosion blasts when by shells hit enemy plane, however it was never as fatal as your case. 109 also has a very vulnerable engine and a single small splinter can be enough to stop it...

ImMoreBetter
06-27-2007, 10:04 AM
One not yet mentioned theory (low probability tho) is that your engine was damaged by a richochet/splinter of your own cannon shells hitting enemy plane. On more than one occasion it happened to me, when I used (large) caliber cannons on the enemy from literally point blank range that my own plane also received hits from the explosion blasts when by shells hit enemy plane, however it was never as fatal as your case. 109 also has a very vulnerable engine and a single small splinter can be enough to stop it..

That could be possible. I've blown off my own wing by shooting cannon shells too close to the ground. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


I think it was friendly flak. When they shoot, the shells usually end up behind the target for the first few rounds. They then work their way up.

DKoor
06-27-2007, 10:20 AM
It is possible to get hit in the engine and to have an insta stop in Emil.
Without any other symptoms, engine comes to a dead stop instantly.
Damages from exploding E/A on 12oc aren't rare.... in fact I got hit by my own exploding victims..... ricochet bullets too.... as TT said.