PDA

View Full Version : Countering the BF-109 dive



VoivodSK
08-21-2007, 02:14 AM
I think I now understand how Messers attack, it's very much like hawks do. Problem is, they almost always enter much higher than us, and when I see one of them making a dive on me, I'm not sure what is the best counter-reaction. I usually try to climb as he dives but I burn a lot of speed then. Plus, I have yet to figure the right moment to climb as to avoid him correcting his dive. I rarely manage to avoid a BF-109 coming on my tail on his first dive...
How do you people do this?

ytareh
08-21-2007, 02:58 AM
Dont let him be higher than you in the first place!At least 70% of people on Hyperlobby seem to think that no life exists above 3 or 4 km altitude.Big mistake.Youre making it easy for the guys up above to just pick you off on their own terms .If you even go up to 5km you will be above most .7km should make you almost untouchable in most servers although our squadron regularly flies at 10km +.Yes it can be harder to spot things so set resolution to 1024x768 to see dotd best....And know your planes max dive speed and use it...

DKoor
08-21-2007, 06:52 PM
There is no worse aircraft in the simulation to be in than 109 in high speed dive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bikewer
08-21-2007, 07:14 PM
You must remember to limit your speed so as to avoid control-surface lockup.

Is it still possible to "cheat" by using the trim control? I know this was a hot item of contention when I was playing a couple of years ago; I'm just getting back into it.

I well remember chasing a 109 in a dive with a YAK-3....My wing fell off!

lowfighter
08-22-2007, 04:25 AM
It also depends what aircraft you're flying against the 109, also what type of 109. As above though, no matter what fight you enter, better to start as high and fast as possible.
But I suggest try flying yourself a BF109g2 against a P40M AI or something, easier as a first step...the P40 AI guys are doing things in a milder way then the Bf109 AI guys.

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-22-2007, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
There is no worse aircraft in the simulation to be in than 109 in high speed dive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yeah-huh...P-38J http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Metabaron2005
08-23-2007, 02:57 AM
Fly hi might be a solution ... very interesting ... but what to do when you are low ? There is no answer to VoivodSK's question : What to do when a 109 dives on you ?

I would say that in a P38 I would try a reversed loop or a short turn or anything not to be a sitting duck (the more the plane you fly is maneuverable the more chances you have to survive), and if I see that the 109 is bleeding his energy intentionally for a DF, then I would try to use the superior speed of P38 ... or die ... like this :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/raid-baron/Cockpit/21-bis-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/raid-baron/Cockpit/25.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/raid-baron/Cockpit/271.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/raid-baron/Cockpit/278-bis-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/raid-baron/Cockpit/281-bis.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/raid-baron/LOGGO/Loggo03.gif

stalkervision
08-23-2007, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by VoivodSK:
I think I now understand how Messers attack, it's very much like hawks do. Problem is, they almost always enter much higher than us, and when I see one of them making a dive on me, I'm not sure what is the best counter-reaction. I usually try to climb as he dives but I burn a lot of speed then. Plus, I have yet to figure the right moment to climb as to avoid him correcting his dive. I rarely manage to avoid a BF-109 coming on my tail on his first dive...
How do you people do this?

Fly a p-47 at the same height they do.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-23-2007, 07:12 AM
If it's the AI diving on you...you can't use the typical rules of engagement...because teh AI are haxorz.

If it's online against human pilots, nose down and let the 109 close (and accelerate as well). As he closes simply pull the stick back. Not too hard as to black out, but hard enough to ALMOST black out. Unless it's a G2, his elevator will stiffen and he'll not be able to follow. A reverse vertical scissor should even give you a snap shot.

VW-IceFire
08-23-2007, 08:48 PM
If theres a 109 high on your 6 and diving the best move is to break into his angle (so if he's slightly to the left break left) and slightly up. Up is the right idea but if you pull too much up then you loose speed and then your just a target.

So slight pull up but hard break turn into the attack. Sometimes I'll add some additional role into the move at the last moment so as to present a side profile and make it harder to hit.

VoivodSK
08-24-2007, 01:23 AM
So I should use his built-up speed from the dive to his disadvantage, and force him overshoot in front of me? When he is exiting the dive, he should be fast enough to loose his maneuverability thus be unable to counter-act fast enough. I guess the scissor-maneuver should do the job, then. And finding the right moment to do it.
Gotta practice.

Thanks people, I appreciate the feedback!

Metabaron2005
08-24-2007, 03:25 AM
Unless it's a G2, his elevator will stiffen and he'll not be able to follow.

Is that Me109 high speed maneuverability problem correctly modeled in IL2 ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v127/raid-baron/LOGGO/Loggo03.gif

DKoor
08-24-2007, 06:55 AM
Unless it's a G2, his elevator will stiffen and he'll not be able to follow. he he


Is that Me109 high speed maneuverability problem correctly modeled in IL2 ? Well try and see if you can bounce something in G2 that saw you at let's say.... 550km/h TAS?

You people do fly 109... like never? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

JimmyBlonde
08-24-2007, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by VoivodSK:
I think I now understand how Messers attack, it's very much like hawks do. Problem is, they almost always enter much higher than us, and when I see one of them making a dive on me, I'm not sure what is the best counter-reaction. I usually try to climb as he dives but I burn a lot of speed then. Plus, I have yet to figure the right moment to climb as to avoid him correcting his dive. I rarely manage to avoid a BF-109 coming on my tail on his first dive...
How do you people do this?

The only advice I have ever heard in this situation is to turn and face him. Make a difficult shot. You will have to employ moves to avoid a head on pass whilst in a climb which is both difficult and dangerous but better than doing nothing.

Xiolablu3
08-28-2007, 04:24 AM
Dont climb as he attacks m- you make yourself an easy target.

The 109 is very bad foir control at high speed, so as he attacks, turn quite sharp, he wont be able to stay with you and will have to abort his attack.

While he is climbing back up for his next B&Z try and either extend towards your base and friendlies, or climb a bit to gain some energy, although he will prbably repeat the attack if hes got a lot more energy and height than you.

In short, a sharp turn/break.

verbaska
09-05-2007, 12:25 PM
Metabaron20
Brave

buzzsaw1939
09-05-2007, 12:53 PM
I find that a double split s will normaly shake them!

Waldo.Pepper
09-05-2007, 01:51 PM
Turn so that in order for the 109 to get a firing solution on you, he must increase his dive angle still FURTHER (even more vertical than he started with) - then turn into the attack.

Brain32
09-07-2007, 04:37 AM
I rarely manage to avoid a BF-109 coming on my tail on his first dive...
How do you people do this?
Look at him - smile, look at him again - yawn, scratch your butt,fart he should be here by now, so just make any kind of gentle, energy conserving evasive manouver...that's it.
Anyway, try taking that utter worthless POS for a ride and you will know very well how to evade it's "attack" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

AFJ_rsm
09-07-2007, 08:27 AM
what you want to do is start a negative G turn.

negative G's always screws up everyone's aiming.