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Pirschjaeger
10-07-2005, 11:33 AM
Hi All,

It's just like the title asks; What is the difference between IBM pc's and Mac pc's?

Is it certain hardware componants or all?

Is it just the mobo and cpu?

Does anyone here use a Mac?

Advantage/disadvantage comparisons?

Did you really think I would want to subject myself to all the technical terms in the "Community Help" forum?

Fritz

jeroen-79
10-07-2005, 12:29 PM
Different hardware (CPU) and different OS.
And Mac is a proprietary standard while IBM PC is open.

TheGozr
10-07-2005, 12:53 PM
Mac OS X coming for X86 in 2006

Aaron_GT
10-07-2005, 02:37 PM
The ironic thing about the title is that currently Macs use PowerPC chips from... IBM.

But apart from that the hardware of the new Intel Macs will be the same as PC hardware for the most part, apart from Macs using only a carefully selected limited subset of available hardware and custom motherboards with a chip such that is required before you can install Mac OSX. Mac build quality is generally pretty good too, better than your generic white box PC.

nickdanger3
10-07-2005, 02:44 PM
I thought it was:

Mac = Catholic
PC = Protestant

Courtesy of Umberto Eco

Stigler_9_JG52
10-07-2005, 04:02 PM
From a gamer or sim-head perspective, the big difference is in selection of titles.

The only reason I ever bought a PC was to be able to play the broadest variety of sims. Period.

For almost any other reason, I'd prefer to use a Mac. But eventually, I decided I didn't want to suffer as a sim-head for my pro-Mac leanings in any other area.

Now, just from force of habit, I use a PC more (I have an iMac at home as well), and from rebuilding my PC systems 3 or 4 times, I now know more about system level stuff about PCs than Macs (although, admittedly, I only know enough to get myself into enough trouble to have to call my support guru!)

Taylortony
10-07-2005, 04:11 PM
IBM are really a clone of the HAL the Mad PC in 2001 the Space Odyssey, if you take each letter of I B M and roll them back one letter you get H A L see told ya I was making sense...


Mac on the other hand is a crinkly old raincoat worn by a second rate American TV series Cop called MumboJumbo or Columbo or something like that............... see its simple when you know.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Oh and he eats Apples I believe..

In the UK a Mac is often used by Dirty Old Men to flash at women a small implement a bit like a USB Memory Stick........... Ask Pingu, he will tell you all the nitty gritty on how it works... being a renowned flasher in Swindon..

GR142_Astro
10-07-2005, 05:19 PM
Got one of each under the desk. The Mac makes the $$$ while the PC shoots the bad guys down. As someone says, MacOS is coming for PC plus the new Macs are wintel.

The line blurs more every day, so get an iPod and see what Apple quality is like.

Dew-Claw
10-08-2005, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Taylortony:
IBM are really a clone of the HAL the Mad PC in 2001 the Space Odyssey, if you take each letter of I B M and roll them back one letter you get H A L see told ya I was making sense...




Techically correct but backwards.
IBM (or International business Machines) has been around for years making adding machines, ditto copiers since the early 1900's.
Kubrick took the IBM acronym and rolled each letter forward to get HAL.
At the time IBM was the leader in mainframe computer sytems in the budding computer market.
They were just starting to become viable and affordable for business use and they led the market in just how computers would be used in the future.

BaldieJr
10-08-2005, 10:44 AM
The difference is quite clear:

Both are designed large enough to not fit inside someones colon. However, the mac has rounded edges in case someone manages to lodge one anyways.

Pirschjaeger
10-08-2005, 10:46 AM
This may be a dumb question but hey, I'm in the right place aren't I? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Can a Mac os be installed on a pc?

I'm simply looking for a way to get away from Windows without buying a new pc. I have bought two versions of Linux but both time the cd's were corrupt and I live too far away to make it worth getting my money back.

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
10-08-2005, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by BaldieJr:
The difference is quite clear:

Both are designed large enough to not fit inside someones colon. However, the mac has rounded edges in case someone manages to lodge one anyways.

Got a track? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I hope not. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

SithSpeeder
10-08-2005, 10:51 AM
Looks like jeroen and Aaron answered your question.

Like Stigler, I was a Mac proponent for a long time before finally crossing over to the "dark side".

* _54th_Speeder *

***
"The box said 'Requires Windows NT, Windows 98, or better.' So I bought a Macintosh."
-- Anonymous
***

Taylortony
10-08-2005, 11:06 AM
I'm simply looking for a way to get away from Windows without buying a new pc. I have bought two versions of Linux but both time the cd's were corrupt and I live too far away to make it worth getting my money back.

Fritz


Oh is that all, heck thats easy, run these, they will get rid of all that top heavy windows stuff at a stroke http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.computerbrains.com/ccs64/

http://www.spectrum.lovely.net/



seriously see this

http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2005-08-10

Werre_Fsck
10-08-2005, 11:50 AM
PC's are for masses. They're clunky crappy kludges and 99% of them use a sorry excuse for an OS.
Macs are elegant, well built pieces of art with a real (BSD-based) OS, but the proletarian lambs cannot afford them. And they cannot run IL-2.

Pirschjaeger
10-08-2005, 12:00 PM
Thx TT.

Do I understand correctly that a Mac os works on any relatively new pc?

Sorry, the tech terms confuse me a bit. I know a little about computers but since I had to learn by trial and error I didn't learn the terms.

Fritz

han freak solo
10-10-2005, 10:32 PM
PCs do have there troubles.

For the right type of person, a PC will be a constant learning and repairing experience. Kind of like learning to tinker with cars or motorcycles.

Macs are chosen by people that just want it to run and don't care how it runs. Kind of like buying a Toyota.

I have access to both the Mac or the PC. Since I'm not a designer/artist but a mechanical repairman by trade, I'm a PC guy. Wrong or right, that's what I like.

diomedes33
10-10-2005, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I'm simply looking for a way to get away from Windows without buying a new pc. I have bought two versions of Linux but both time the cd's were corrupt and I live too far away to make it worth getting my money back.
Fritz

If you're still interested in trying out linux try gentoo (http://www.gentoo.org). FI-Aflak pointed me to it about 6 months ago and I've been running it since. Its definatly the best linux distro I've run yet.

It takes a while to set it up (it compiles all the programs during the installation), but its pretty stable afterwards. The documentation is pretty good. Its not for the faint of heart, though.



Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Do I understand correctly that a Mac os works on any relatively new pc?

Last time I dealt with Macs they were RISC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC) based. The x86 (PC) architecture is CISC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CISC) based. The processors think differently.

This is how the difference was explained to me back in high school. Take a simple addition problem 10+10. CISC works like most people think 10+10 = 20. RISC on the other hand does 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 20.

Also, the motorola chips use a totally different instruction set then the intel processors. Other little things like Macs in general use SCSI where PCs use IDE for disk drive interface. The bus architecture was completely different for expansion slots.

I honestly haven't worked on a Mac since '98 so this info might be dated. Back then at least a Macintosh and PC were two completely different animals. The only people I know that use Mac's now are in graphic design. As said earlier, OSX is comming out for x86. As long as it says x86, it should work. However an older Mac OS will not.

lbhskier37
10-11-2005, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Thx TT.

Do I understand correctly that a Mac os works on any relatively new pc?

Sorry, the tech terms confuse me a bit. I know a little about computers but since I had to learn by trial and error I didn't learn the terms.

Fritz

If you have broadband and a CD burner you can get a copy of virtually any linux distro you want. Personally I recommend Redhat 9 or Fedora for someone new to Linux. There is lots of help available online.

And to Macs stability and build quality, maybe in the past it was better, but you still hear Dell add that say "number one in technical support", IMHO none of that holds true any more. You have just as much chance of having problems in OSX as you do in Windows XP, and the quality control of Apple has gone downhill fast in the last few years (look up iPod nano screens, and PowerBook screens in google)

x6BL_Brando
10-11-2005, 01:09 AM
I have bought two versions of Linux but both time the cd's were corrupt and I live too far away to make it worth getting my money back.

Bought????!!!!!! I have a total boxful (around twenty flavours) sat on my desk gathering dust. A buddy of mine is always bringing them around trying to convert me.

Knoppix is well worth a look....just a CD that will run on any PC and only use RAM, it never lands anywhere near the hard drive. It's a useful way to learn how the software works.

Aaron_GT
10-11-2005, 03:37 AM
and the quality control of Apple has gone downhill fast in the last few years

That might be true for the mass market products like the iPod, but for PC hardware the quality of Apple builds is a cut above the general hoi polloi of builders. There are builders that can match the build quality for standard PCs but your average generic white box PC is generally not so well built as a Mac. If you shop around PC builders you can find ones that are well built. Those building them for music studio use are a good source as the Mac is a common sight in a music studio and a PC in that arena has to match the build quality of the Mac. I've also seen some very well built Dell stuff, and some pretty cheapo Dell stuff. All depends on what price point you go for.

Aaron_GT
10-11-2005, 03:40 AM
Personally I recommend Redhat 9 or Fedora for someone new to Linux

If you are a complete newbie than Linspire or Ubuntu are probably good places to start. It's the sort of distro that your grandmother could use.

Redhat and Fedora are ok for someone with a bit of experience, although I prefer SuSE over both.

Gentoo runs very efficiently, but it takes forever to set up. The package management is great, but you need a broadband connection from the outset.

Pirschjaeger
10-11-2005, 09:18 AM
Thx for the info guyz. I started downloading Gentoo about 8 hours ago. Got to 98% and got a message that Internet Explorer figured it was taking too long and cancelled. Hmmm, can't think of a reason to change from Win**** to something/anything else. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Anyways, ol'Bill ain't gonna beat me. Downloading Getright now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
10-11-2005, 09:32 AM
Ok, here's my plan. First I'll download Gentoo and then burn it to a cd. I have a couple HD's kicking around so I'll just pull the one I'm using(SATA) and replace it with another(IDE). Then I'll format from dos. Next I'll boot from the Gentoo cd and start installing.

Does that sound right?

Does it matter if my HD is SATA or IDE? I'm installing for amd64.

Fritz

lbhskier37
10-11-2005, 09:59 AM
Actually I dont think you need that format from DOS step in there. You should be able to just boot from the Gentoo disk and the setup for that will be able to do all the partitioning and formating that you need.

Pirschjaeger
10-11-2005, 11:44 AM
Now that you mention it, it seems logical that formatting in dos first would make no difference since Gentoo will need a different format.

Cool, thx. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fritz

Aaron_GT
10-11-2005, 04:50 PM
If you are in the UK, Pirschjaeger, I can write a copy of Gentoo on CD(s) and post it to you for the cost of the stamps.

What kind of gfx card do you have? Nvidia support under Linux is MUCH better than ATI support. ATI's fine for basic desktop stuff but the OpenGL hardware acceleration is poor.

Also if you want to play DVD films from Linux you have to go and fiddle around with extra bits and pieces.

-HH- Beebop
10-11-2005, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Taylortony:
IBM are really a clone of the HAL the Mad PC in 2001 the Space Odyssey, if you take each letter of I B M and roll them back one letter you get H A L see told ya I was making sense...

I apologize! (For what? you may ask). For this...

HAL

(1) (Hardware Abstraction Layer) An interface between the hardware and the software. An operating system is essentially a hardware abstraction layer; however, a HAL implies an additional layer between the OS and the hardware. It is used to enable the operating system to be ported to new hardware platforms by writing a new abstraction layer. In practice, parts of the kernel may always have to be optimized in order to support new hardware as efficiently as possible.

An abstraction layer was built into Windows NT and its 2000 and XP offspring. The Windows DirectX APIs call the HAL layer directly.

<span class="ev_code_yellow">(2) (Heuristic/ALgorithmic) The name of the computer in Stanley Kubrick's famous film "2001," which takes over command of the spaceship. Each of the letters in H-A-L precede the letters I-B-M. In 1968, when the movie was released, IBM controlled almost every aspect of the computer business; however, the IBM name connection was supposedly a coincidence. </span>

I thought you were kidding! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Pirschjaeger
10-12-2005, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
If you are in the UK, Pirschjaeger, I can write a copy of Gentoo on CD(s) and post it to you for the cost of the stamps.

What kind of gfx card do you have? Nvidia support under Linux is MUCH better than ATI support. ATI's fine for basic desktop stuff but the OpenGL hardware acceleration is poor.

Also if you want to play DVD films from Linux you have to go and fiddle around with extra bits and pieces.

Hi Aaron,

Thx for the offer dude but, same planet, wrong side. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I d-loaded Gentoo lastnight. I also have a cd burner so I'll be ok. I'm using Winfast 6800GT 256mb. So, it's Nvidia.

Now for an embarrassing question. After d-loading Gentoo I unzipped it into a file. Geez, I hate to ask but, I didn't see and setup.exe file. Do I need one? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Or, once I copy the files to cd will the cd be bootable? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I just lost face big time, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Fritz

lbhskier37
10-12-2005, 09:08 AM
when you downloaded Gentoo, they should be CD image files. Often they will have a .iso extension, there are some others. What you probably need to do is using a program like nero, start a new project and select burn image. You will have to then point it to the image file you downloaded. The CD that is burned should then be bootable.

Pirschjaeger
10-12-2005, 09:19 AM
Yep, there's an isolinux folder. I used Nero once and IIRC, it asks whether to make the cd bootable before it starts burning it.

Thx again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fritz

Aaron_GT
10-12-2005, 10:11 AM
Have they finished the Gentoo graphical installer yet? If not you might want to look at vidalinux, which is a version of gentoo with a graphical installer.

Pirschjaeger
10-12-2005, 10:27 AM
Graphical installer? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Would that be something like helper for noobs?

Fritz

NorrisMcWhirter
10-12-2005, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Now that you mention it, it seems logical that formatting in dos first would make no difference since Gentoo will need a different format.

Cool, thx. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fritz

Fritz: (do you fly at UK-D with that name?) - what exactly are you trying to achieve?

If you want to run 'Linux' as a trial but you don't want all the hassle of the install, why not download Knoppix/similar? You can boot directly from a CD and surf/whatever without having to install.

OK, it's not super-flexible but it's a lot safer to surf after booting from a non-writable CD than it is from anything else http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ta,
Norris

Aaron_GT
10-12-2005, 03:30 PM
Would that be something like helper for noobs?

I've been using Unix and Unix-like OSes since 1989 and done installation on a whole host of hardware since then and a helpful graphical interface to the installation, if it is well done, is not just for noobs!

Aaron_GT
10-12-2005, 03:31 PM
If you want to run 'Linux' as a trial but you don't want all the hassle of the install, why not download Knoppix/similar? You can boot directly from a CD and surf/whatever without having to install.

You can also get 'live cd' evaluations of things like Suse, Mandrake, Linspire, probably RedHat too?

Pirschjaeger
10-12-2005, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Would that be something like helper for noobs?

I've been using Unix and Unix-like OSes since 1989 and done installation on a whole host of hardware since then and a helpful graphical interface to the installation, if it is well done, is not just for noobs! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha, Aaron, you misunderstood me. I'm the noob and will take any noob perks available. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The term "graghic installer" seemed to me to be something that made installing much easier for the inexperienced. I know very little about this stuff.

Fritz = noob

Aaron = not noob

But I see how you could have mistaken that. This is GD right. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
10-12-2005, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Now that you mention it, it seems logical that formatting in dos first would make no difference since Gentoo will need a different format.

Cool, thx. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fritz

Fritz: (do you fly at UK-D with that name?) - what exactly are you trying to achieve?

If you want to run 'Linux' as a trial but you don't want all the hassle of the install, why not download Knoppix/similar? You can boot directly from a CD and surf/whatever without having to install.

OK, it's not super-flexible but it's a lot safer to surf after booting from a non-writable CD than it is from anything else http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ta,
Norris </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry Norris, it's not me. I haven't flown in ages and don't even have the game installed. My net ping is always over 500 so playing online means getting kicked often. It's bad for my ego. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Besides, I find GD to be more interesting then the game anyway.

What I'm trying to achieve is knowledge, besides sanctuary. I wanna get away from Windows. Since I first bought a pc about 4 years ago I've lost 2 years to Microsuck learning to solve problems. I'm tired of the bs that comes along with it.

I like to learn by doing. If I'm going to spend so much time on a pc then I want to spend it in a more useful way. I also want control of my pc since it is mine and Microsuck never paid a cent to me.

I've already tried to install Redhat and Susa but both times I got the message that the cds were corrupt after the first boot. Linux really didn't seem that complicated. I like learning anyway, even if it's the hard way.

Fritz