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View Full Version : Adam, Eve, and the End of the World ***SPOILERS***



Alpha Ender
01-29-2011, 09:29 PM
My post from a different thread.

Juno: A hundred years I might speak and still you would not know us. You with five senses. Us with six. The one we kept from you. To be safe. Now, you can never know. Only try. Grasp. You can SEE. SMELL. TASTE. TOUCH. HEAR. Knowledge has been blocked away. After, when the world became undone, we tried to pass it through the blood. Tried to join you with us. You see the blue shimmer. You hear the words. But you do not know. WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT YOU AS YOU WERE. It is hard to stay contained. Knowing as we do. We wait for you, Desmond. You will come here. You will activate it. You will know only when it is too late.

I think that humans/Assassins will never fully attain "knowledge" as an inherent sense like the other 5. Juno mentions that the sixth was locked away except for the Assassins.

...which brings up a disturbing point. Adam and Eve were NOT Assassins. At least, not yet. They stole the Apple, which started the war. Proof of this is shown by the fact that you can see a member of the First Civilization commanding humans in The Truth (ACII). This quote from Juno states that the Assassin's weren't created until after the catastrophe. Which means...how did Adam and Eve fight back? They were born as humans, as slaves, not as Assassins. Geez...that is going to put a different spin on things. That means there are humans capable of fighting back against the Piece of Eden who are not blood-related to the Assassins. Then again, not too surprising, as there was the man (I think custodial; an email mentioned what he worked as) who saw the Denver event. He wasn't an Assassin or he would have been inside the compounds or conclaves with the other Assassins.

So:

The Truth shows Adam and Eve stealing a Piece of Eden.
Juno says the Assassins weren't created until after the war/catastrophe ("After, when the world became undone...").
Therefore, Adam and Eve weren't ever Assassin's (because it's passed on through blood).
Therefore, there used to be humans that could fight off the influence of a Piece of Eden.
Therefore, humans who are NOT Assassins can still fight off the influence of a Piece of Eden. Adam and Eve's traits would have passed along bloodlines; we know there are bloodlines because otherwise we wouldn't be able to see The Truth.

Everyone with me here? Or is there something I missed that changes that?

/end original post.

So...what do you guys think? I don't quite know where this is going yet, but it's something to think about in my opinion.

Scottduszy
01-29-2011, 10:18 PM
Ummm doesn't one of Abstergo's emails in the 1st game say that 10% of the population will be resistant to it or something.

Alpha Ender
01-29-2011, 10:35 PM
Although the satellite is intended to accomplish a fair portion of the work for us, we will certainly need to deal with those who are either immune to - or protected from - its effects.

From the email from Alan Rikkin to Vidic via the conference room laptop. So, yes, they do mention some people are resistant to the PoE's powers. However, it's somewhat assumed that those people are the Assassins.

The point I was making above was more that the Assassins aren't the only immune to its powers over a wide area. Altair originally wasn't affected by the Apple until he went face to face with Al Mualim. He's one of the resistant people. What all of that stuff up above is suggesting that it's not just the Assassins who are resistant, but other people (because how else would Adam and Eve have stolen the Apple?).

LxLAS3RzZz
01-29-2011, 11:04 PM
You're inccorect on multiple notes:


how did Adam and Eve fight back? They were born as humans, as slaves, not as Assassins. Geez

Adam and Eve are not Humans, Adam and Eve are half Human and half TWCB which grants them certain abilities such as the advanced 'free-running' and Eagle vision and eagle vision is even mentioned in what Juno says;


You see the blue shimmer. You hear the words. But you do not know.

Decendants of Adam or Eve only have these abilities, it is unlikely that there are many complete decendants of Adam or Eve like Desmond and plausibly Lucy if my theory stands correct (Disclaimer: LxLAS3RzZz in no way confirmed that Lucy was a decendant of Eve and simply thought it as his personal own theory of which could be wrong.).


Juno says the Assassins weren't created until after the war/catastrophe ("After, when the world became undone...").
Therefore, Adam and Eve weren't ever Assassin's (because it's passed on through blood).


I find this probably unlikely aswell, in the biblical stories of Adam and Eve it is said that Adam lives longer than 900 years. And it is also shown that the Apple can give people prolonged life which is likely he used this. And so if Adam did live this 900 years then he also likely created the Assassin Order as you say, it was created afterwards so I'm sure 900 years is a long enough time to do so.

RazzPitazz
01-29-2011, 11:35 PM
I find this probably unlikely aswell, in the biblical stories of Adam and Eve it is said that Adam lives longer than 900 years. And it is also shown that the Apple can give people prolonged life which is likely he used this. And so if Adam did live this 900 years then he also likely created the Assassin Order as you say, it was created afterwards so I'm sure 900 years is a long enough time to do so.

Not to be a stick in the mud on this, but since the game sends a subliminal (yet historically correct) message implying Vatican Propaganda as the source of the Templar Order, I feel they might just throw Biblical history/stories (however you feel) out the window and try to play it off as a debunking of ancient "Urban Myths" if you will.

As far as Lucy, I think she is a traitor. A triple agent if you will. I find it odd coincidence that both 16 and Juno would make reference to a woman with a hidden agenda (not verbatim) and then she gets stabbed.

Alpha Ender
01-30-2011, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by LxLAS3RzZz:
You're inccorect on multiple notes:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> how did Adam and Eve fight back? They were born as humans, as slaves, not as Assassins. Geez

Adam and Eve are not Humans, Adam and Eve are half Human and half TWCB which grants them certain abilities such as the advanced 'free-running' and Eagle vision and eagle vision is even mentioned in what Juno says;


You see the blue shimmer. You hear the words. But you do not know.

Decendants of Adam or Eve only have these abilities, it is unlikely that there are many complete decendants of Adam or Eve like Desmond and plausibly Lucy if my theory stands correct (Disclaimer: LxLAS3RzZz in no way confirmed that Lucy was a decendant of Eve and simply thought it as his personal own theory of which could be wrong.).

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've contradicted yourself. You're saying that Adam and Eve have those abilities because they're descendants of Adam and Eve---> "...half Human and half TWCB which grants them certain abilities..." and "Decendants of Adam or Eve only have these abilities...".

More importantly though, you're not paying attention to what Juno said. "Knowledge has been blocked away. After, when the world became undone, we tried to pass it through the blood. Tried to join you with us. You see the blue shimmer. You hear the words. But you do not know. WE SHOULD HAVE LEFT YOU AS YOU WERE." The Assassins (see bottom for what I mean by "Assassin") weren't created until after Adam and Eve stole the Apple. The half human/half TWCB didn't exist before the catastrophe, that solar flare that messed up everything.

Timeline:
TWCB create humans or modify hominids to make humans (as shown by emails in The Truth files stating that Abstergo planted fakes of skeletons around the world to keep people from learning about TWCB's involvement in our evolution).
TWCB enslave humanity with PoEs (shown by The Truth, video).
Adam and Eve steal PoE (shown by The Truth, video).
Adam and Eve start war against TWCB, using humanity's superior numbers to overwhelm TWCB's technology (assumed that this comes after they steal it; they would finally have a weapon to fight back with).
Catastrophe caused by solar flare (told of by Minerva).

After this, I'm not sure on the order of events, but they are all post-catastrophe.

TWCB and humans work together to rebuild (told of by Minerva).
Temples/vaults created (told of by Minerva).
TWCB attempts to save their bloodline by mating with humans (told of by Minerva).
TWCB die out, humans and half human/half TWCB (Assassins) left behind (told of by Minerva).


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Juno says the Assassins weren't created until after the war/catastrophe ("After, when the world became undone...").
Therefore, Adam and Eve weren't ever Assassin's (because it's passed on through blood).


I find this probably unlikely aswell, in the biblical stories of Adam and Eve it is said that Adam lives longer than 900 years. And it is also shown that the Apple can give people prolonged life which is likely he used this. And so if Adam did live this 900 years then he also likely created the Assassin Order as you say, it was created afterwards so I'm sure 900 years is a long enough time to do so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, I should have clarified my meaning of Assassin. I think the context you're using it in in the quote above is as someone fighting back against TWCB/Templar. I meant it as the way Subject 16 put it: "The seeds were planted as two worlds became one. Behold the Assassins, the children of two worlds!" I think he was the first Assassin as Cain was the first Templar; either side of the battlefield, one fighting for free will and the other for domination.

LxLAS3RzZz
01-30-2011, 12:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LxLAS3RzZz:
You're inccorect on multiple notes:


quote:
how did Adam and Eve fight back? They were born as humans, as slaves, not as Assassins. Geez


Adam and Eve are not Humans, Adam and Eve are half Human and half TWCB which grants them certain abilities such as the advanced 'free-running' and Eagle vision and eagle vision is even mentioned in what Juno says;


quote:
You see the blue shimmer. You hear the words. But you do not know.


Decendants of Adam or Eve only have these abilities, it is unlikely that there are many complete decendants of Adam or Eve like Desmond and plausibly Lucy if my theory stands correct (Disclaimer: LxLAS3RzZz in no way confirmed that Lucy was a decendant of Eve and simply thought it as his personal own theory of which could be wrong.).



You've contradicted yourself. You're saying that Adam and Eve have those abilities because they're descendants of Adam and Eve---> "...half Human and half TWCB which grants them certain abilities..." and "Decendants of Adam or Eve only have these abilities...".



I don't see where I have contradicted myself I'm saying that Adam and Eve are half Humans and half TWCB and so they have abilities which come from TWCB such as Eagle Vision. And eagle visiona and advanced 'free running' are passed down in the bloodline and so I said only decendants of Adam and Eve can have these abilities. Where else would of Desmond get eagle vision? Do all Humans have eagle vision? If he got it from the bleeding effect then where did Altair get it from?


Timeline:
TWCB create humans or modify hominids to make humans (as shown by emails in The Truth files stating that Abstergo planted fakes of skeletons around the world to keep people from learning about TWCB's involvement in our evolution).
TWCB enslave humanity with PoEs (shown by The Truth, video).
Adam and Eve steal PoE (shown by The Truth, video).
Adam and Eve start war against TWCB, using humanity's superior numbers to overwhelm TWCB's technology (assumed that this comes after they steal it; they would finally have a weapon to fight back with).
Catastrophe caused by solar flare (told of by Minerva).

After this, I'm not sure on the order of events, but they are all post-catastrophe.

TWCB and humans work together to rebuild (told of by Minerva).
Temples/vaults created (told of by Minerva).
TWCB attempts to save their bloodline by mating with humans (told of by Minerva).
TWCB die out, humans and half human/half TWCB (Assassins) left behind (told of by Minerva).


quote:
quote:
Juno says the Assassins weren't created until after the war/catastrophe ("After, when the world became undone...").
Therefore, Adam and Eve weren't ever Assassin's (because it's passed on through blood).



I find this probably unlikely aswell, in the biblical stories of Adam and Eve it is said that Adam lives longer than 900 years. And it is also shown that the Apple can give people prolonged life which is likely he used this. And so if Adam did live this 900 years then he also likely created the Assassin Order as you say, it was created afterwards so I'm sure 900 years is a long enough time to do so.


I'm sorry, I should have clarified my meaning of Assassin. I think the context you're using it in in the quote above is as someone fighting back against TWCB/Templar. I meant it as the way Subject 16 put it: "The seeds were planted as two worlds became one. Behold the Assassins, the children of two worlds!" I think he was the first Assassin as Cain was the first Templar; either side of the battlefield, one fighting for free will and the other for domination.

This however, I agree with other than the joining of the two races afterwards and not before, I think simply because of Adam and Eve, there may of been a single member of TWCB of which had 'intercourse' with a Human(s) and so Eve and Adam were around - If I am wrong then I am uncertain where they get their abilities if not from TWCB.

TwentyGlyphs
01-30-2011, 01:16 AM
In the AC2 Truth file "The Fourth Day," one of the hidden messages is "Toba, 75ka was not a volcano." This was a major eruption about 75,000 years ago that may have bottlenecked the evolution of humanity and reduced its numbers to mere thousands. http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Toba_catastrophe

It sounds to me like that was the major event that wiped out most of the First Civilization. I'll bet most of TWCB that were left were sympathetic to humans and worked together to rebuild. Minerva mentioned this rebuilding.

I have a feeling that Eden and Adam and Eve came after the catastrophe and were meant not as enslavement but as hope to save the world. Somehow it all got messed up. I think that's what Juno meant when she said you broke our tools to Desmond. She also said they destroyed and hid what they could, but not all of them and that it didn't take many to unwind the world. I think that also ties into Subject 16 saying they were once part of a whole, also in the Fourth Day glyph. The Pieces of Eden may have been the solution to another solar catastrophe.

Alpha Ender
01-30-2011, 02:47 AM
I'm just strictly interpreting by what we're shown and given in the game. It's possible Ubi messed up a little (everyone makes tiny mistakes), but as far as what we're told, it has to follow this timeline in order.

The exception to that is that Adam and Eve didn't necessarily have to be Assassins in order to free-run, parkour, whatever you want to call it. They could have just been slaves who were slightly more resistant, managed to break the thrall of the PoE, and attack their master. They could just be naturally gifted without being Assassins (look at the Templar fast guards and the Borgia messengers who you can never freaking catch). Also, Eagle Vision is never shown to be used by Adam and Eve, so it's still possible that the mating never happened until afterwards...I'm holding onto this like a bulldog with a piece of meat. Like I said, just strictly interpreting here, not just being stubborn to be stubborn. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Coryplayspiano: In his Truth files, Subject 16 indicates that this catastrophe was not a supereruption, but instead was the result of solar activity that decimated Earth, considerably reduced the human population and precipitated the extinction of Those Who Came Before.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Toba_Catastrophe

Just a confirmation of what you said. =)