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View Full Version : What happened to this tank?



nagant_m44
02-17-2005, 05:20 AM
This tank burned out and was lost. How was it damaged? It looks like some kind of penetration weapon got through the armor.

http://www.consumptionjunction.com/downloadsnew/cj_42331.wmv

nagant_m44
02-17-2005, 05:20 AM
This tank burned out and was lost. How was it damaged? It looks like some kind of penetration weapon got through the armor.

http://www.consumptionjunction.com/downloadsnew/cj_42331.wmv

Guidon666
02-17-2005, 07:06 AM
Nothing penetrated the tank (I am not saying this simply to make claims that the M1 is impenetrable.

It was an IED placed along the side of the road. The crew's injuries were sustained by over pressurization and being tossed around inside the turret during the detonation. We saw this video a little while back and a few of my NCOs know the 1SG of this unit and have talked to him about it.

If you look at the injuries. 1st guy out is the loader. With his left arm it looks as though he was tossed into the radio rack, or if he was sitting with the chair facing backward (to facilitate loading of the 120mm cannon, he most likely hit the the aft-cap retaininer on his way to hitting the bottom of the tank. 2nd guy out is the tank commmander. No visible injuries. 3rd guy out is the gunner. Looks as though his face pushed forwards into the sight of the tank. And most likely he had his brow pads off the site to be able to see through them more comfortably (but in retrospect you see the facial wounds) Probly jarred the hell out of his neck and head too.

If there were internal penetrations of the tank you could not wound the loader and the gunner without seriously wounding the TC. the seating configuration of the tank isnt condusive for that pattern. The gunner sits lower/in front of, and between the TC's legs. So you would expect some leg injuris of the TC along wonds with the gunner's head. And the loader sits to the left of the tc.

The small fire on the outside of the top of the tank is residual burning from the IED detonation. The ammo doors are not popped open on the top of the tank so there was no penetration of the ammo bay from the rear.

Demon_Mustang
02-17-2005, 03:36 PM
Guidon sounds right on, and for good reason I suppose, he actually knows about this specific situation. Not that I could give more insight, but from what I could see in that video, the tank is more or less undamaged. The treads seem to be intact, thus how it drove in under it's own power, and all the shots of the exterior actually look like it is in pristine condition, well, except for where it was hit by the blast, but it definitely was not enough to actually do any real internal damages to it, I'm sure it can be repaired fairly quickly and returned to service.

Also, the crew seem a bit shaken up, and the gunner seemed "beat" but do not appear that they have very serious injuries. The loader kind of looked mad at the incident, and the commander was calm enough to dump a bottle of water on the fire. Looking at the way the commander and the gunner exited, it doesn't seem like they felt they were in any more danger, especially the commander, who got out, stood there, and basically took a breath of fresh air before proceeding to help the gunner, who also looked like he was taking a little breather.

I think if there was any penetration, they might have been in more of a hurry with the fear of the munitions catching on fire and possibly igniting.

Like I said, I could not possibly give any more insight than Guidon, but just giving my point of view of what I saw completely based on a more psychological viewpoint.

nagant_m44
02-17-2005, 06:35 PM
Why is there smoke coming from inside the tank?

Guidon666
02-17-2005, 06:48 PM
Watch it again. (You probly have several times)
The little bit of smoke that looks like it is coming from the loaders hatch is infact comming from the dust/smoke at the side of the tank... not the hatch (As when the camer drops and you catch a glimpse of the turrent top angle you can see the smoke/dust obscure this). It is only for a few seconds (Until the loader exits the vehicle) then there is no more comming from the vicinity of the hatches. the rest is being blown across the back deck of the tank from the gear fire on back.

If there was a penetration of the tank in the turret it would have set off the Halon fire suppression bottles and there would be a lot more smoke and the guys would be in a lot worse shape. If there was a pentration in the engine compartment the Engine Halon system would have fired which would have 1) instantly shut the engine down or 2) robbed the engine of oxygen and forcing it to abort/shutdown on it's own. Thus negating it's ability to drive under it's own power.

nagant_m44
02-17-2005, 08:57 PM
it wasnt this (http://www.grose.us/iraq2/pop2.htm) guy in there was it?

Guidon666
02-17-2005, 10:19 PM
Couldnt tell you off the top of my head. BUT Looking at the pic of the CPL. I would say YES it was the same crew. Additionally with the backdrop of the tank under the bridge it also looks the same.

Will take this in on tues and talk to a few guys. I have no reason to doubt the story of the Tank Comander (I wasnt there and he would have no reason to make it up). It differs in the reports we got back, but the Marine unit is not that far from my base here in CA and we happen to have a Marine contingent here now prepping for a few things.

His explanation of being tossed to the bottom of the floor also puts things into perspective as the person I identified comming out of the Tank Commander's hatch.... was not the tank commander. As a CPL he would have been the gunner so it looks like the loader was the 1st one out. Then the CPL. (Gunner) then the tank commander last (head wound).

He also states the round didnt penetrate. The burning on top of the tank would still be from the initial explosion of the RPG... not the before stated IED. Had an RPG penetrated the turret from a top attack. It would/could have been MUCH worse.



Glad you found this page as it sheds a differen light than what we were led to believe. And I am never upset at being shown my errors.

bannedscrubs
02-17-2005, 10:38 PM
You are one of the "few"........ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Demon_Mustang
02-21-2005, 01:26 AM
I don't really have time to read it all tonight, really trying to get through the posts to go to sleep, but from what I read, one of the crew was knocked unconscious and was flown to Germany where he regained consciousness. Didn't everyone in the video get out by their own power?? Well, one guy eventually was helped, but he climbed out first on his own.

Guidon666
02-21-2005, 04:02 PM
If he was uncon as a result of the blast.. it was a short thing (based on the story and the video). It seems supportable since the tank commander was the last out of the hatch (He has the easiest exit from the vehicle) It looks as though the Gunner climbeb over him to get out. (and I cant imagine that being possible unless the TC was uncon)

Demon_Mustang
02-22-2005, 12:18 AM
but in the video the TC was fully conscious...

Guidon666
02-22-2005, 03:48 PM
He was.... to climb out last of the tank. He might have been uncon for only 5 minutes or so prior to climbing out.... or for several minutes before as we dont see a time from attack to escape from the video. It is possible he lost con again after getting out of the tank too. If you look at the video and then the pics. The medic that is treating the Black marine is in both the video and the pic... as well as the black marine (as seen by his face)

But I cant see a scenario where that gunner would have any way of getting out of the tank prior to the TC if the TC was concious or in his seat. The turret and hatch are not big enough to let that happen. Even tighter if all the turret safety mech are in place.

Demon_Mustang
02-24-2005, 01:50 AM
If anyone was unconscious, it would be the gunner, he kind of climbed out on his own, but just slumped over and looked like he had enough. The TC climed out, looked around, and had the energy to pick up a bottle of water to dump on the fire before helping the gunner out of the tank. Perhaps the TC was the one that pushed the gunner out before him? Maybe the gunner was unconscious and the TC, from inside the tank got out of position to try to help the gunner get out first? I don't know, I suppose this could have been possible.

Guidon666
02-24-2005, 07:05 AM
That is where the confusion is in the crew manning/uncon discussion. The black marine (Got out and put out the fire) Looked to be the TC. However after looking at the ohter article posted and agreeing that it is the same tank/crew (Which it might not be... but the black solder looks almost the exact same as well as does the medic and the bridge in the scene) The black marine who puts out the fire is a Corp. Which makes him a gunner, not the tank commander.

Demon_Mustang
02-24-2005, 02:51 PM
Ooohhhh, I thought his outfit meant that he was the TC. I'm not exactly familiar with tanks, obviously, but I have been assuming that the black Marine that got out was the tank commander...