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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:19 PM
Does anybody know how the gunsight reveals the distance from the target? I have a shadowy feeling that if the enemy fighter fills the internal circle of my soviet gunsight, the distance is about 300m. Are there any 'technical specifications' of various gunsights to be found?

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:19 PM
Does anybody know how the gunsight reveals the distance from the target? I have a shadowy feeling that if the enemy fighter fills the internal circle of my soviet gunsight, the distance is about 300m. Are there any 'technical specifications' of various gunsights to be found?

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:28 PM
HansKnappstick wrote:
- Does anybody know how the gunsight reveals the
- distance from the target? I have a shadowy feeling
- that if the enemy fighter fills the internal circle
- of my soviet gunsight, the distance is about 300m.
- Are there any 'technical specifications' of various
- gunsights to be found?
-
-

on the REVI i htink it is 100 metres if it fills the circle


regardless .. it is easy to work out


1) fly a quick mission with icons on and find out the range where a fighter exactly fits the gunsight circle, this is your base figure

2) other ranges are proportional to this, for example if the fighter wingspan is half the circle diameter the range is double the base figure, if it is roughly a fifth then it is five times the base figure

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:38 PM
in the revi in the game, filling the gunsight is at 200m, at least in the FWs. Which is wrong but no one addresses it.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:53 PM
- regardless .. it is easy to work out
-
-
- 1) fly a quick mission with icons on and find out
- the range where a fighter exactly fits the gunsight
- circle, this is your base figure
-

The only problem is, when a another AC is filling my gunsight I just pull my trigger and fill the space in front of me with much a smoke... I just cannot resist...

michapma
07-30-2003, 03:05 PM
It really depends on the size of the target now, doesn't it?

Have a look at this RAF document, you have to go here to download it, there's no direct link:
http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/fb/cms/index.php/filemanager/fileview/33/


Sorry, I don't have any documentation for the FW's specific gunsight, but as has been mentioned, you can do some research on your own.

That's also why there are marks on the crosshairs. Did you know that the markings change automatically when you change convergence? Talk about thoroughness. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

Cheers,
Mike

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 03:11 PM
michapma wrote:
- It really depends on the size of the target now,
- doesn't it?

Yes, my assuption is that most of the ww2 _fighters_ were very similar in size. I will have to do obvious adjustments while fighting bombers.



- That's also why there are marks on the crosshairs.
- Did you know that the markings change automatically
- when you change convergence?

Wow,that would be great. I'll have to try this out.

Thank you for the link (and for the comment!)

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 03:12 PM
This is quite good, michapma . I like the little exercises.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 03:13 PM
for Revi sights:

distance to target=10*targets width when it fills the ring.

I.e. Ju-88 should fill Revi ring at 200m distance pretty exactly. (span 20.08m)


-jippo

michapma
07-30-2003, 03:16 PM
Thank Yanev (now Roshko...) for finding it and hosting it. I enjoyed it myself.

Also enlightening is the discussion in chapter one of Robert Shaw's "Figther Combat".

Cheers,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

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<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 03:44 PM
lbhskier37 wrote:
- in the revi in the game, filling the gunsight is at
- 200m, at least in the FWs. Which is wrong but no
- one addresses it.
-

You're right. According to the indications in Galland's manual for aiming, a plane of 10mt wingspan should fill the circle of the Revi at 100m, while in il2/FB it fills the Revi's circle at 200.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 04:43 PM
It depends on the wingspan of the target aircraft. I agree, you can test in QMB, but it will be a different distance for different wingspans. I wish Oleg would introduce the gyroscopic sight. You have to manually adjust the reflected circle to the wingspan of the aircraft, and the circle is not fixed, it moves to where the deflection will hit the aircraft, unlike the fixed sights we have in the game now.

http://utenti.lycos.it/AEREOFAN/images/saetta.jpg

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michapma
07-30-2003, 05:26 PM
I believe the LCOS gunsight is being implemented for the P-51.

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:33 PM
Is this the same type of gunsight that was on the P51D's in which there is a dial on the gunsight with various german a/c. The pilot would simply move the dial to the appropriate a/c he he wanted to shoot down and bang! (reflector would change size to the wingspan of the appropriate a/c)



mike_espo wrote:
- It depends on the wingspan of the target aircraft. I
- agree, you can test in QMB, but it will be a
- different distance for different wingspans. I wish
- Oleg would introduce the gyroscopic sight. You have
- to manually adjust the reflected circle to the
- wingspan of the aircraft, and the circle is not
- fixed, it moves to where the deflection will hit the
- aircraft, unlike the fixed sights we have in the
- game now.
-
<img
- src="http://utenti.lycos.it/AEREOFAN/images/saetta
- .jpg"> -
- caccia buon!
-
-
- <center><a
- href="http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/"
- target="mash"><img
- src="http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/
- mash_henry_blake.jpg" width="205" height="95"
- border="0" alt="Click here to take the M*A*S*H
- quiz!"></a></center> -
-

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:03 PM
dragonhart38 wrote:
- Is this the same type of gunsight that was on the
- P51D's in which there is a dial on the gunsight with
- various german a/c. The pilot would simply move the
- dial to the appropriate a/c he he wanted to shoot
- down and bang! (reflector would change size to the
- wingspan of the appropriate a/c)
-
Yes. You would dial in the wingspan of the target, and the trick was to get the moving recticle to fit the wingspan of the target aircraft, usually a button on the throttle.

http://utenti.lycos.it/AEREOFAN/images/saetta.jpg

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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 03:02 AM
I have the old squadron signal publication book of the P51D which I picked up back in the early 80's when I was a kid. There is a very good picture of the gunsight in the book. The author then called it world's first computerized gunsight.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 04:04 AM
Well the gunsight of the German 109's and 190's represents a span of 40 feet at 100 metres. A I-16 has a wingspan of about 29ft, the La 5/7 series is 32ft, IL2 T3 about 48ft, the Pe2 is 56ft and the TB3 is around 130ft. Maybe the Soviets were different, as some of their early war fighters, due to hasty manufacture, lacked a proper gunsight and used a painted circle on the windshield. I reckon you should test out the gunsight with icons and distance on. Take some notes and check this against the various target dimensions in the veiw objects section of the game.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 05:36 AM
What the he11 is gunsight?

HWF

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 01:02 PM
Yesterday I did some tests. The Bf 109 reaches out to the first bigger marking on the soviet gunsight at the distance of exactly 300m . The inner circle has the angular size of about 130 mrad, and the outer one 180 mrad.

The marks on the soviet gunsight do not depend on the convergence settings, unfortunately.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 02:44 PM
Here is it. Sorry for the bad scan. It has the 109 and 190, Ju88,110 and 210, He177 and fw200...

http://www3.sympatico.ca/sbmel/p51gunsight.jpg



Stef

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 03:08 PM
Yes that's it stef my picture looks a bit different I will see If I can scan and post as well. Is that from a P51D?

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 12:36 PM
They don't mention the plane. The pic was from the Imperial War museum in Britain so maybe from Spit or Hurricane... Maybe why your pic is different if you mean the gunsight is shaped differently, maybe you have the US version... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Stef

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 07:42 PM
I believe I do.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 10:12 PM
They say it took 3 years to invent the gunsight...The British Gyro Gunsight Mark IID, the U.S.N. Mark 18 and the U.S.A.A.F. K-14... It took one second to calculate the firing solution....


Stef