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Avont29
08-20-2007, 02:33 AM
i've tried, i tried to go at it, but its just too damn hard

flying the 190 or 109 on manual prop pitch, its a nice feature, but its hard as hell to dogfight with it, especially going into dives, i can cruise with it fine

..i mean i know how to do it, but dogfighting with it is really hard

i definately feel the performance and speed boost when using manual prop pitch though...

i have to constantly keep my eye on the fw-190 RPM gauge, same goes for bf-109, i can also do it without looking at the gauge, i can hear the differnce in engine sounds and when i need to change prop pitch, but you gotta change it a lot in dogfights, when i dive in a bf-109 on manual prop pitch i have to drop prop pitch from like 75 or 80% to 35 or 40% to keep RPM gauage within range, its hard doing it with keyboard, what i need is a joystick with a second slider, then i can use that for prop pitch

i like flying with MPP though, its difficult and fun

anyone who can dogfight with manual prop pitch.....~S~, imma keep at it though, im getting better at it

HuninMunin
08-20-2007, 02:50 AM
I thought the manual on 109 and 190 is no good?
Something along the lines of no improvement or even worse performence...
The only thing I use manual for ( only in the 190)is when I have a long cruise ahead and want to go fast without overheating.

carguy_
08-20-2007, 02:50 AM
Too much useless effort,especially in the 109.In Focke-Wulf however, even now the manual is a better choice.

Funny you say it.It`s not you who should be worried about managing your engine in a DF.

polak5
08-20-2007, 03:01 AM
i pretty much use manual to conserve fuel.... dont dogfight much with it though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

potver
08-20-2007, 03:05 AM
I read several times that pilots on the Bf-109 only used prop pitch manuel with take -off and landings.
In combat they flew on automatic , to focus themselves on the fight.
Seems reasonable.

joeap
08-20-2007, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:
Too much useless effort,especially in the 109.In Focke-Wulf however, even now the manual is a better choice.

Funny you say it.It`s not you who should be worried about managing your engine in a DF.

Arrrgggh one thing I hope is better in BoB early 109s used manual PP...but after it was automatic. I thin the 190 was ALWAYS auto except for emergencies and it was BETTER control than manual. I won't use it myself. Not in 190s even online.

Avont29
08-20-2007, 03:16 AM
i read differnt, i read they use automatic for takeoffs and landings

and used manual for dogfights and cruise

better maneuverability and speed on manual prop pitch, its relaly no different than just changing gears in a drag racer or whatever, you have to constantly change it

if i had a joystick with a second slider, i would have no problem dogfighting with MPP, but doing it with the plus and minus key on the keyboard is kinda hard, and kinda distracts me

i've been able to push my plane way past its limits as opposed to CSP

learn MPP though, its good to know, you might like it, you can squeeze every last bit of performance out of the plane with that manual prop pitch feature

i really like it, just gotta be careful on the RPM's, its really easy to cook the engine, especially in a dive, such as a boom and zoom(which i do a lot of)

FritzGryphon
08-20-2007, 03:49 AM
If you've ever read anything about manual pitch in 109s, it was either Poland, France or early BoB.

Besides, I have tested the manual pitch on 109G2 in some detail (used to be lots of whining about it). Even if you redline the RPM the entire time, and I'm talking 50 RPM under destruction, I got barely 5% improvement in climb time to 5000m. Incidentally, this small gain was countered by increased engine heating (so you may as well just use WEP instead of monkeying with prop pitch).

In anything other than pure level flight or steady climb, you will either get worse performance due to incompetence, or you will blow the motor.

To actually get an advantage you have to keep the RPM in a magic 100RPM zone, without going over for an instant. This is only possible by gluing your eyes to the tachometer.

BBB_Hyperion
08-20-2007, 04:17 AM
The time it was possible best climb was with semi auto and manual, spool engine up with 100 % pitch on 109 and before engine wrecked switched back to auto and this back and forth. When this didnt push your results below 3 minutes to 5 km you did it wrong.

Spaturnio
08-20-2007, 04:40 AM
he's obviusly trying to use manual PP in the 190 becuase of thhe screwed model in game trying to gain some speed and acceleration: while in a 109 it's not worth the trouble, in a 190 it does big time, since with auto PP it's the worst accelerating airplane in game (even a Il2 can do better!)
My suggestion is to set two main keys on your keyboard wich brings your PP at 100% and 80% and stick with just those settings. You may use an AutoPP key when you are trying to save your fuel and keep formation with other 190s

Avont29
08-20-2007, 05:41 AM
well i was mainly talking about the fw-190, thats what i normally fly for manual prop pitch

as for the two keys for 100% and 80% is a definate no go, i dont think you know what your talking about

it would have to be way lower in a dive, since 35% prop pitch and 100% throttle keeps engine at the normal combat engine setting, assuming the CES for the fw-190 a-9 is 2500RPM

Spaturnio
08-20-2007, 05:49 AM
Originally posted by Avont29:
it would have to be way lower in a dive, since 35% prop pitch and 100% throttle keeps engine at the normal combat engine setting, assuming the CES for the fw-190 a-9 is 2500RPM

In a dive you MUST go Auto PP http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
there is no way for you to gain something form manual PP with speed changing so fast.

Avont29
08-20-2007, 05:54 AM
well i usually just drop the prop pitch down so it stays within range, you can hear the difference in the engine, you will know when to change prop, its like when you hear engine in car you know to change gear

but whatever, just wanted to try something new in this sim for once..heh dogfighting on manual prop pitch

Spaturnio
08-20-2007, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by Avont29:
but whatever, just wanted to try something new in this sim for once..heh dogfighting on manual prop pitch

Put it this way: no 190 pilot ever though about messing with manual PP because the plane did it better then any other one in the world.
The reason for Manual PP in Il2 is becuase of the porked PP vaules in the 190, meaning that you need to take over if you just want to acclerate. This happens when you need to dash forward in stright line and when you are pointing your nose up at average speeds.
80% is good for the cliimb, 100% is good for the dash: all thher rest should be left to Auto PP

DKoor
08-20-2007, 09:14 AM
I use auto all the time.

Only worthwile usage of manual could be to prevent overheat, yes there is a nice combo where user gets excellent power output without overheating and it can go all day long in climb that way.

Now...considering manual.

Let's just say that I test climbed the A6 from deck up to 4,000m in quite controlled enviroment. Difference with 100% manual and auto was one or two seconds.
That can be accounted for user error.

So.... to those that thinks they are faster with manual - enjoy your placebo while it lasts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

Spaturnio
08-20-2007, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
So.... to those that thinks they are faster with manual - enjoy your placebo while it lasts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .
It's not a matter of sustained climb rate: it's a matter of how fast your plane react to throttle, and when you are slowed down and need acceleration, being it in a dive or horizzontaly (you can't accelerate on a clib!) there it comes the Manual PP trick.

To give you an idea of how sluggish the 190A is modelled in Il2, put it on the runway and open up thottle (without brakes): then switch to a Ki84 and do the same theiir engine in game is exactly the same but PropAnglertype value is set on 8 on the FW and on 2 on the Ki84.

Do the same first with a standard Bf109G6 and then with an Mc-205: the Macchi is much faster in acceleration because of PAT at 7 for the 109 and at 2 on the macchi. Again, the engine in Il2 on both airplanes is the same.

for these reasons you could get some advantage with Manual PP, but it takes to much time and sensibility to really notice it.