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View Full Version : A Happy Marriage: Blending Combat Flight sims, FPS & MMOGs.



Copperhead311th
12-20-2007, 08:41 PM
I've been thinking about some of the things that Oleg has mention in Mysticpuma's video that he'd like to do with SoW. Making AA turrets operable. Then I realized playing guild wars the other night how it's possible to have so many ppl on, and i got to wondering could this one day be the future of online combat?

A sort of virtual WWII where you have the ability to fly, or drive any and every vehicle. As well as play an infantryman. While at the same time populating a server with realistic numbers of players and still have the game running at top playability. From my point of view this would be the end all be all of virtual combat.

So what is the possibility of maybe 5 years down the road....things heading in that direction?

Bearcat99
12-20-2007, 08:55 PM
Who knows.. with the advances in processors... AI programming..

Krt_Bong
12-20-2007, 08:59 PM
Actually it already exists, I believe the game is Warbirds I recall trying it, but it was a trial and then pay per month deal.

SweetMonkeyLuv
12-20-2007, 09:00 PM
sounds like WWIIOnline (now Battleground Europe www.battlegroundeurope.com (http://www.battlegroundeurope.com) ) to me. And its been around for a while. Graphics and quality of the sim may be a bit lacking, but multi-crewing tanks, playing infantry of all types, taking territory, managing supply, and even the order of battle and high command structures are all "in the game".

K_Freddie
12-21-2007, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
... AI programming..
We can only hope !!

stathem
12-21-2007, 01:52 AM
I'd love to see this; but the problem I see is the traditional resistance of this community towards pay-to-play.

For such a thing to work you'd pretty much have to pay a monthly fee, and then for it to be successful you'd need a critical mass of people prepared to take the step of signing up.

In this very small part of the gaming community, are there enough people willing and able to do that?

skarden
12-21-2007, 02:04 AM
I think if the graphics were done up to a reasonable standard and all the class's were well done and vehicle FM's were looked at properly i think you would get enough ppl from the other genre's signing up to play for the "other" aspects of the game that there would be enough numbers to make it worth while.

which of coarse would leave us to show them what a well trained and well armed squad can do to land based troops,

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

I'd happily pay a monthly fee for that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Viking-S
12-21-2007, 02:25 AM
Whow! I year does pass quickly! It feels more like a day to me.
Is it BoB time now?

Therion_Prime
12-21-2007, 02:40 AM
Like SweetMonkeyLuv said, such a game/sim already exists.

The flyable aircrafts are: http://wiki.wwiionline.com/index.php/Units#AIRCRAFT

Kurfurst__
12-21-2007, 03:15 AM
Originally posted by stathem:
I'd love to see this; but the problem I see is the traditional resistance of this community towards pay-to-play.

WWII Online/Battleground Europe`s client is free to download. The montly fee is something like 15 USD per month, a petty sum, and you can have something like 4 months of time for the price of a single offline boxed game. Not to mention, here you don`t play but SIMULATE warfare. All human opponents, forget the AI. It`s all about ambush, tactics and manouvering.

You can practice offline, and, at any time try it free for a two weeks period. It`s graphics may be lacking (a new GX engine is on the way though), but it offers great sound effects, a large and mature community, and a very detailed damage model.

Aircraft wise, I have flown one of the best missions around in a Bf 110, escorting some 30 He 111s - all flown by a human - with 20 other 109s/110s, approached some English factory in Britain on a seamless map that contains all of NW Europe from the German border till London, and we were intercepted by at least a similiar number of British and Framerican fighters. It was a blast.

Try it. It`s free to try, but the learning curve is VERY steep.

http://wwiionline.extra.hu/templates/wwiionline/images/logo3.jpg

http://killer.playnet.com/damage/Tiger-M10-1.jpg
http://killer.playnet.com/damage/Tiger-M10-2.jpg

Outlaw---
12-21-2007, 06:50 AM
To me, the flight element of WW-II online is so poor that it negates everything else.

I prefer Aces High 2 which, while it has no infantry element, is still more bang for my buck. The armor is good enough and the flight is excellent.

--Outlaw.

general_kalle
12-21-2007, 07:43 AM
as said the game is already out

Battleground europe which is about the battle of France 1940 is out and has been for a long time.

what i hope is that future games of the sort will have sailing as Silent hunter III
Flying as Il2 and Tanks as T34 vs Tiger.
ok i dont know the last one but it seams damned realistic...oh and infantry as Arma.

Copperhead311th
12-21-2007, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Therion_Prime:
Like SweetMonkeyLuv said, such a game/sim already exists.

The flyable aircrafts are: http://wiki.wwiionline.com/index.php/Units#AIRCRAFT

Only 1 problem with that.....
British French German . no US, No USSR, & no Japan or Italy.

The way i envisionit is a realistic world scope covering all theaters, useing real world maps (such as MSX does) With vehichle/aircraft FM/DM and grafix close to what we'll see in BoB. while at the same time alowing anough players to populate the virtual envioment on the lvl of Warcraft, or Guild Wars & still maintan a lvl of ground combat comperable with Call of Duty.
Plus all the eye candy ya can squeez in it.

WOLFMondo
12-21-2007, 08:19 AM
The fickle market for a title like that would mean a huge risk for a company. An MMORPG can cost from $20 to $80 million. You need allot of subscribers for a long time to cover that cost, not to mention running costs of support and development staff.

I'd love to see a WW2 online with a good selection of planes and FM's that are as detailed as IL2 but I can't ever see it happening. Rough approximations are all we'll ever get unless we fly study sims like IL2.

Outlaw---
12-21-2007, 08:35 AM
Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
The way i envisionit is a realistic world scope covering all theaters, useing real world maps (such as MSX does) With vehichle/aircraft FM/DM and grafix close to what we'll see in BoB. while at the same time alowing anough players to populate the virtual envioment on the lvl of Warcraft, or Guild Wars & still maintan a lvl of ground combat comperable with Call of Duty.

While the above would be awesome, it's a tall order, especially considering that most players won't play if they are not guaranteed a good shot at winning and/or they only care about a specific theater/country. The speed at which the War Clouds server empties if an early war eastern front map came up is proof positive of that.

It took me a long time to realize that there are only a few people like me who can have fun while "losing". Coincidently I recently got back into paintball and after an outing a couple of weeks ago with a bunch of people from work they were just astounded that I was having fun despite being covered in paint and having been hit in every single game.

Also, language would be a significant barrier. Obviously that could be solved if the rest of the world would have the common courtesy to speak my language, but, they would just tell me the same thing in whatever crazy speak they natively speak. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Maybe one day...

--Outlaw.

Therion_Prime
12-21-2007, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Therion_Prime:
Like SweetMonkeyLuv said, such a game/sim already exists.

The flyable aircrafts are: http://wiki.wwiionline.com/index.php/Units#AIRCRAFT

Only 1 problem with that.....
British French German . no US, No USSR, & no Japan or Italy.

The way i envisionit is a realistic world scope covering all theaters, useing real world maps (such as MSX does) With vehichle/aircraft FM/DM and grafix close to what we'll see in BoB. while at the same time alowing anough players to populate the virtual envioment on the lvl of Warcraft, or Guild Wars & still maintan a lvl of ground combat comperable with Call of Duty.
Plus all the eye candy ya can squeez in it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you slightly misunderstood the concept behind ww2online.
There is "only" one huge map and one game (campaign) can last several months until one side wins. Almost every town has to be captured .... it's almost like a real war and you are just one tiny gear in the machinery.

There is no mapchange every half an hour. This is what makes wwiionline so immersive and unique.

Of course the addition of the US and the Italians would be nice ... and maybe sometime the'll implement them.
But speaking of US equipment: There are plenty of US lend-lease vehicles already availiable ingame. Unless you don't want to fly/drive them under french colors .....

And like kurfurst already said, you can download the client and test all vehicles offline for free.

SweetMonkeyLuv
12-21-2007, 09:04 AM
Unlike most of the community here, I actually started war gaming/siming in WW2OL, and came to games like this and Silent Hunter afterwards.

My background was always in FPS games (orginally, doom /quake ) in my late teen and early 20s years (I'm in my early 30s now, sigh). When gobs of WW2 era FPSs started to come out (Return to Wolfenstein, Medal of Honor, Call of Duty), I began to become more and more fascinated by the history of WW2. I also credit movies like Saving Private Ryan, U571, Das Boot, Band of Brothers for that.

My buddies and I had heard about WW2OL, which had been out for a year and had a horrible reputation (bad launch). We decided to give it a whirl. It was painful at first, but it quickly became appearant that this was a game unlike any other. The combined arms concept, even in a graphically inferior game, is truely addicting.

Much to my surprise, I found myself enjoying the vehicle aspect of the game more and more. Tanking was fun, but I quickly got sucked into the flight sim aspect almost exclusively.

I was a HORRIBLE pilot for a good couple months. I think it took me something like a week before I could trust myself to safely get my 109e airborne and landed without killing myself. About 50 or so deaths (some self-inflicted) before I managed my first aerial victory. Took another couple months before I was averaging roughly 1 kill per 1 death. Couple more months, and I was a reasonable pilot, and a total flight sim addict. By this time, it was a rare occasion that I ever even played anything but the flight aspect of WW2OL.

Eventually, frustration forced me out of WW2OL and into IL2. The planeset was quite limited. At the time I quit, the 109E4 and F4 were the only choices available. There was no real strategic air war. There were medium bombers, but very very seldom did you see more than one running together. There was no bombing from above 3000m, since the game system couldn't track ordinance over that distance. The vast majority of the air activity was happening at altitudes under 1000m with little coordination between players. Even to someone without a background in flight simulation, the flight model felt "arcadish".

Eventually, I came to IL2. I've done some hyperlobby play, but mainly I now just enjoy offline campaigning with DCG. Its been a couple years or more now since I played WW2OL (I still call it that, even tho they've rebranded since I left). I understand they've added a bunch of new stuff to it, including some sort of "brigade" system that forces players to "play together" more instead of randomly spawning anywhere on the map.

Truely, though, I don't miss the flight sim part of it now that I have IL2. If there was anything that occasionally makes me consider going back, it would be for the tanking. As far as I know, there is not a compelling "IL2 for WW2 tanking" game out there on the market, and Battleground Europe is likely the best alternative for that.

SweetMonkeyLuv
12-21-2007, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
as said the game is already out

Battleground europe which is about the battle of France 1940 is out and has been for a long time.

what i hope is that future games of the sort will have sailing as Silent hunter III
Flying as Il2 and Tanks as T34 vs Tiger.
ok i dont know the last one but it seams damned realistic...oh and infantry as Arma.

Anyone know the status of T34 vs Tiger? Is it released yet? Available in the US or via download?

Kurfurst__
12-21-2007, 10:00 AM
The air war part is certainly not the best part of WW2OL. It`s not THAT bad, much better than any of the 'arcade' stuff like BF1942 and the like.


To me, armored simulation is the core of WW2OL, by far the best part of the sim and IMHO, leading on the market. The simulation of the vehicles, their motion and their guns/armor is perfect, and nothing is comparable to going against human opponents. The infantry part is nice and well made, though the bigges problem is the lack of massive infantry numbers, which would be needed in a realistic enviroment, where one bullet can kill you..

The best part of WW2OL is it`s playerbase. It`s very mature, helpful, and it works together heavily. People report contacts, and are willing to take less fun parts like towing another guy`s Flak 88 with prime mover to a good firing position; people are willing to bring up reinforcements from a distance and wait for each other while the force assembles.

Here`s a mass attack of Panzers, that assembled a good 20 km behind and drove to the frontline for an assault (check out the little compass in the lower right corner..) :

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/Kurfurst/SShot16_massedPzattack.jpg

Same stuff with aircraft, on an ad-hoc, player-organised 'Adlertag', with massed bombers escorted by massed fighter escort... :

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/Kurfurst/SShot11_bomberslineup.jpg

... and intercepted by the RAF and FAF in numbers :

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/Kurfurst/SShot13_Adlertag.jpg


The aircraft pool has been much expanded ever since. The Axis can choose from the Ju 87, He 111 and Bf 110C-4/B as bombers/fighter bombers, the Bf 109E-4, F-4, G-6/U4 and the FW 190A-4 as fighters. The Allies have a counterpart for each, Curtiss Hawk 75, Bell Aircobra, P-38, Spitfire I-V-IXLF, Hurricane I-II, Dewoitine, Blenheim bomber and fighter, A-26 etc.

I`ve also tried AH2 briefly - it went down as a sucker for me quickly, odd FM, 'gamey' solutions like autoclimb etc.. the gunnery is a joke compared to Il-2 (in comparison WW2OL is quite good in this respect, DM/Ballistics is it`s strong side), the graphics are no better than WW2OL, ground combat is there, but it ain`t a big thing. And with equipment available to all sides, it`s really just a Red vs Blue stuff without any historical flavour to it.