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View Full Version : What happened to dots in 3.02 beta????



VMF-214_Pappy
11-29-2004, 02:11 PM

VMF-214_Pappy
11-29-2004, 02:11 PM

Soulyss
11-29-2004, 03:38 PM
a bit OT, my apologies but how do you set the icon distance? I don't want to get rid of them all together but I'd be very interested in limiting them to a relavitvely close range. Thanks.

faustnik
11-29-2004, 03:55 PM
The big dots of 3.01 were great! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VBF-83_Hawk
11-29-2004, 04:05 PM
The big "here I am " dots of 3.01m were not great!

raaaid
11-29-2004, 04:18 PM
i think the best would be to conbine the big distance of 3.01 with the fade away of the 3.02b so everybody would be happy

carguy_
11-29-2004, 04:29 PM
I`m very sad that the old dots are back.Idon`t even have a choice!

Seems that Oleg made a compromise much more to the side of old dots which is a mistake IMO.I have a burning feeling that we lost something revolutionary for flying.Real life pilots said they liked v3.01 dots and yet the old ones are back?

I am dissapointed but what can I do boohoo! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Charos
11-29-2004, 04:40 PM
3.02 Dots are Much better (For Me) - Im no longer playing a Mid 30's Sim Hunting the R101 and the Hindenburg of 3.01.

Im now seeing small black spec's - Much better. (For me)

faustnik
11-29-2004, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
I`m very sad that the old dots are back.Idon`t even have a choice!

Seems that Oleg made a compromise much more to the side of old dots which is a mistake IMO.I have a burning feeling that we lost something revolutionary for flying.Real life pilots said they liked v3.01 dots and yet the old ones are back?

I am dissapointed but what can I do boohoo! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We can post about it! The most recent patch is a beta for Oleg to get opinions on, so , we are voicing them here.

S.taibanzai
11-29-2004, 04:42 PM
3.01 dots where stupid,ugly and unreal

like the 3.02 dots,but they are stil to much visible to me,liked the 2.04 dots the best

raaaid
11-29-2004, 04:50 PM
in 2.04 you just had to turn lights to flat and you would be seing dots as far as 3.1

if you didnt have lights on flat or stencil buffer off youve been missing something very important you were seen and could not see

VMF-214_Pappy
11-29-2004, 05:08 PM
why would i want or have to turn my lights to flat or turn stencil buffer off just too see, sorry i dont want my game too look like old CGA or EGA graphics thank you

x__CRASH__x
11-29-2004, 05:17 PM
The 3.01 dots were overboard, in my opinion. They reduced the respectability of the game by intorducing huge bumblebee looking dots that you could see without any effort.

3.02b dots don't seem any different to me than 3.0/2.04 dots. A compromise between the two would be much better.

I remember a compromise being mentioned, but the dots we have doesn't look like that offering. They look the same as the old dots to me.

faustnik
11-29-2004, 05:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF-214_Pappy:
why would i want or have to turn my lights to flat or turn stencil buffer off just too see, sorry i dont want my game too look like old CGA or EGA graphics thank you <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No kidding! I want good graphics and visible targets too.

DarthBane_
11-29-2004, 05:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
I`m very sad that the old dots are back.Idon`t even have a choice!

Seems that Oleg made a compromise much more to the side of old dots which is a mistake IMO.I have a burning feeling that we lost something revolutionary for flying.Real life pilots said they liked v3.01 dots and yet the old ones are back?

I am dissapointed but what can I do boohoo! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We can post about it! The most recent patch is a beta for Oleg to get opinions on, so , we are voicing them here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you guys. 3.01 dots were perfect!

x__CRASH__x
11-29-2004, 06:27 PM
Perfection is dependant on opinion. As you can see form this thread, most hardly think it was perfect.

bumblebees.... bzzzzzzzzzzz

BPO6_PANP
11-29-2004, 08:15 PM
heres what I have allways wanted to do!!!
upgrade to a top of the line cpu / get the fastest ram / get the fastest video card with the most ram just so I can turn all the settings in the game down to where a G Force 2 card can run just fine JUST so I can see someone below me
Yep just what we all want to do !!!!
Make it playable and visible

Jumoschwanz
11-29-2004, 08:19 PM
Yea Pappy,

Visibility is down on your server.
When I was on it the other night one of your squad that was flying the same color I was had a lot of trouble seeing me against the background of the smoking P-51 Mustang that I had just shot up. In fact I was so invisible he shot right through me at the Mustang, I thought it was an enemy wingman and had to peel off. I don't know why I still got credit for the kill, must be a gunnery problem there too somewhere.

I have a nice track of this if anyone wants to examine this visibility problem this squad has, just send me a private message. S!

Jumoschwanz

FOE_Pappy
11-30-2004, 08:26 AM
S! I enjoyed the 3.01 dots very much.

The 3.02b dots cannot be seen even at close range against the ground. Possibly use the 3.01 with the default range reduced.

Reducing the graphics quality and running a very low res. is a poor solution to using the 3.02b dots.

Kwiatos
11-30-2004, 08:51 AM
I found the best dots are from 3.02 but with incrase DOT RANGE to 20 km. With default range 14 km dots are invisible on ground and water. 3.01 dots are unreslitic and ugly.

Mulleteer
11-30-2004, 08:53 AM
I feel that the pre 3.01 dots are simply put, frustrating and I really don't enjoy playing servers w/o icons.

When you argue about dots, keep in mind that what you see is only a computer simulation. It, for example, doesn't take account how your brains enhance what your eyes see based on head movement, object movement, contrast and learned experience. Everybody in passenger airliner on 10km have seen how much movement counts.

ucanfly
11-30-2004, 09:52 AM
3.01 dots were not even given a chance IMO. 3.01 dots with a reduced dot range to get rid of the "distant dot" whines would have been perfect. Now in 3.02b I have problems following targets against old terrain maps again. I guess some people were too lazy to adjust the dotrange in 3.01 and Oleg heard the complaints.

Bring back 3.01 dots with a reduced dot range Oleg. Please!!! In the old poll only 29% preferred the old dots.

Evader-2RHh
11-30-2004, 09:58 AM
I think screen resolution has something to do with being able to see the dot. As if the dot is only so many pixels in WxL.
I ran a little test in 1600x1200x32 and first seen the Dot and barely could see the label at 5.75KM.

Then I ran the same test at 1024x768x32 and seen the dot well before the label, and using the map grids I estimated I seen the dot at about 7.66KM or about 33% greater distance.

My buddies play at 1024x768, I like 1600x1200. I thought I was blind, he would always say "Bandits 11 o'clock" I say "Where, I don't see anything"

So that is why I think the dot size is set at a certain pixel dimension and not scaled to resolution.
Can anybody confirm the screen resolution setting and seeing the dot?

PinkPriest
11-30-2004, 10:16 AM
I agree with Evader. The dotsize is still "fixed" and not scaled to resolution. In 3.00 (and original Il2, FB, AEP...) planes became invisible when flying below the horizon. (this is on 1280x1024). 3.01 was the first time I was actually able to maneuver AND track the bandit I was following.

3.02 dots bring back the cloaking device against users flying at higher resolution. It's not quite as bad as in 3.00 but IMO more research should have been put into the effect of different resolution and visibility of dots. Most pure pnline players seem to run at lower res for a better framerate, while offliners tend to choose better visual quality -&gt; higher resolution.

Making an option available in the difficulty settings to choose which "dotstyle" to use would be best. 3.02 came much too soon after 3.01, there wasn't enough time for everybody to fully evaluate the "big" dots.

TacticalYak3
11-30-2004, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kwiatos:
I found the best dots are from 3.02 but with incrase DOT RANGE to 20 km. With default range 14 km dots are invisible on ground and water. 3.01 dots are unreslitic and ugly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't decide how to vote. Like these comments the best. Screen resolution will make it almost impossible for Oleg to perfect. I think since he (and others) have suggested 1024x768 as the ideal resolution to play IL-2 for performance purposes, let's choose this resolution (especially since it is the one I use http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

I enjoyed the 3.01 DOT because it allowed me to finally see planes from a reasonable/realistic distance. I agree with others, however, that they were a bit too "bumble-bee" like.

Playing my Russian campaign and the 3.02 DOT (no icons of course) is still better than the original DOT we had before the patch. It is less noticeable under certain circumstances however, but better defined than the one before.

Would like to see it a bit "bolder" but can live with the present DOT. Perhaps the mp_dotrange suggestion would help. My campaigns are locked to no icons so I would have to wait until the next crop of campaigns come along.

LilHorse
11-30-2004, 11:10 AM
I haven't seen the 3.02 dots yet but I preferred the 2.04/ 3.0 dots over the 3.01 dots. They just look too big from too far away in 3.01. I think it takes away from the element of surprise somewhat. It's much harder to sneak up on planes or hide in the sun or clouds. And you telegraph your presence too early. In short you just can't bounce as easy.

I have a pretty outdated rig and vid card and standard issue 17" monitor and I had little problems with the old dots.

Brock.Landers
11-30-2004, 11:30 AM
At the risk of revealing myself to be a big wuss I prefer the 3.01 dots.
While perhaps less realistic they do lessen the "where the heck is everyone?" feeling you get too often on the big maps. Yeah I know this is hardcore simulation but accesibility and gameplay were improved for me in 3.01.

Cossack13
11-30-2004, 11:32 AM
I also preferred the 3.01 dots with tweak on the mp_dotrange as needed.

Airmikey2
11-30-2004, 12:16 PM
I liked the 301dots, but again I fly at 1600 x1200 res on an lcd flatscreen....I used to turn down resolution with original dots.. I wish this could be worked out for everybody...Version 302 is very difficult for me to see. Yesterday I noticed fellow pilots responding earlier to bogies than I in a coop.. Guess I'll have to sacrifice res.

Couldn't this be a user option - I mean whats the diff in turning up dots or turning down resolution to gain same advantage...just let us adjust our own dots and at last do away with icons.

Airmikey

Nealg
11-30-2004, 03:42 PM
I too prefer the 3.01 Dot configuration. Uisng mp_dotrange, you could adjust, but it at least was visible. 3.02 brought back the old conditions, as mentioned here by others ; and I play at 1024x768x32, on Perfect ( finally, with PF...tho I have to force shaders to 1x on my 128 meg 5700 Ultra ) and have set my range to 25, which seems to give me about 10-15 in reality. That's not ID distance, simply that there is a object out there, could be anyone or anything....but at least with 3.01, I knew there was a object. With 3.02, it is difficult again at best to even determine whether it is a object, or a speck of dust on my monitor ( 18" LCD ), or even just spots in my eyes, unless I fly toward it....and if the mission objective doesn't allow for that, I have to wait for the AI to tell me.

Having the option would be nice, but that is up to Oleg to determine if it is even possible....but I vote for, have voted for, and will continue to vote for, the 3.01 dots. It's my preference, and makes the sim more playable and enjoyable for me...doesn't mean it works for everyone.

We have so many options already, I almost feel guilty about even saying anything, but I do feel it's worth mentioning and asking for, anyway.

AFJ_Locust
11-30-2004, 05:35 PM
I dont think 301 dots were perfect but they were a whole lot better than 302b, I swear I cant find anything

At least in AEP I could find AC Id Much prefer something closer to 301 dots with a touch of 3.00 (PF normal dots) like a lil of bolth somehow blended like go back to 301 then just tweek them down a LIL BIT not down to INVISADOT

Im @ 1280x960 cant see chit now

Aviar
11-30-2004, 05:59 PM
I did not vote because I would like a compromise between the two.

The 3.01 dots were too big and too black. The problem was that they did not fade with distance. The 3.02 dots fade nicely, but I would prefer them to be a little bigger.

Also, I miss the 'white' ship dots of 3.01. It is crucial to be able to spot distant ships in a sim like PF.

Aviar

LEXX_Luthor
11-30-2004, 06:28 PM
Brock.Landers:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>At the risk of revealing myself to be a big wuss I prefer the 3.01 dots.

While perhaps less realistic they do lessen the "where the heck is everyone?" feeling you get too often on the big maps. Yeah I know this is hardcore simulation but accesibility and gameplay were improved for me in 3.01. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't let them trick you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif 3.01 dots were the most realistic yet, but with dotrange lowered from Default of 14km -- depending on player resolution.

Heinz' made a great thread about not being able to judge range with 3.01 dots, but of course with the Default 3.01 dotrange set too high at 14km, the dots remained big at both close and far ranges--hence the impossibility of judging range. Other than Heinz' thread, all we have seen is the claim of "ugly." That's all they can say, and it tells me 3.01 dots are realistic - http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif - but with dotrange fixed of course, depending on player preference, personal experience of spotting real life aircraft and, monitor resolution.

bn880
12-03-2004, 06:07 PM
A suggestion:

Keep dots, vary their transparency as a squared function of distance. You can have a multiplier in there for the size of the aircraft.

Something like Transparency=1- 1/d^1.2 *sizeMultiplier

Oleg?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

killer2359
12-03-2004, 08:48 PM
I support the 3.01 dots with adjustment philosophy.

IMO a lot of the 3.01 dot knockers are in the "more difficult = more realistic / less difficult = less realistic" camp.