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XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:05 AM
What is the point of adding A6M Japanese Zeroes to FB, when they never fought on the Eastern front?
Realism is going out of the window!!

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:05 AM
What is the point of adding A6M Japanese Zeroes to FB, when they never fought on the Eastern front?
Realism is going out of the window!!

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:08 AM
Err excuse me. What about the Manchurian border incident? Or the fact that the USSR declared war on Japan in 1945, and fought a campaign across Japanese occupied China???

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:09 AM
Online play, buddy. And as far as realism is concerned, it was thrown out the window with the inclusion of the Bi-1 and the MiG-3U.

"I find your lack of brains disturbing"
http://ourworld.cs.com/Demolisher%20SWE/signature01.jpg
Former Würgerwhiner extraordinaire

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:13 AM
How many Zeroes did the Russians actually engage or shoot down then?

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:13 AM
Jester1 wrote:
- Err excuse me. What about the Manchurian border
- incident? Or the fact that the USSR declared war on
- Japan in 1945, and fought a campaign across Japanese
- occupied China???
-
-
-

Neither the Zero or the Frank fought at Khalkin Gol in 1939. They hadn't even entered service then.

And during the war in 45 the few Japanese aircraft in that area only flew a very small number of sorties AFAIK, but granted, they were still there (Ki-84's?).



"I find your lack of brains disturbing"
http://ourworld.cs.com/Demolisher%20SWE/signature01.jpg
Former Würgerwhiner extraordinaire


Message Edited on 09/12/0311:14PM by Demolisher_

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:14 AM
1. Who said they were 3rd party?

2. FB is soon to be released in Japan. That's why.

_____________
Ian Boys
=38=Tatarenko
Kapitan - 38. OIAE

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:20 AM
ianboys wrote:
- 1. Who said they were 3rd party?
-
- 2. FB is soon to be released in Japan. That's why.
-


Bad PR Ian. FB and IL-2 have been available in UK since day 1, but no Spitfire. Don't our pennies count for anything? Spit V, lend-lease etc, etc.

Boo! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
Not impressed with that argument at all.




<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.jpg"


Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:21 AM
My question still stands, did they actually dogfight?

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:31 AM
pakeyluv wrote:
- How many Zeroes did the Russians actually engage or
- shoot down then?
-
-


Absolutely none. Zero. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


"I find your lack of brains disturbing"
http://ourworld.cs.com/Demolisher%20SWE/signature01.jpg
Former Würgerwhiner extraordinaire

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 12:41 AM
But u got your workhorse the Hurricane ;-)


Dunkelgrun wrote:
- ianboys wrote:
-- 1. Who said they were 3rd party?
--
-- 2. FB is soon to be released in Japan. That's why.
--
-
-
- Bad PR Ian. FB and IL-2 have been available in UK
- since day 1, but no Spitfire. Don't our pennies
- count for anything? Spit V, lend-lease etc, etc.
-
- Boo! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
- Not impressed with that argument at all.


<center>http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19-Orheim-IDCard-sm.gif



http://www.gbg.bonet.se/bjorta/F19%20VS%20banner%20B.jpg (http://www.f19vs.tk)

</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 01:11 AM
And I think that Japan and Russia never actually declared the war over either. (that's what I heard a while back).

The biggest shame is that the program has been hijacked to become SWOTL or EAW to appease the US market and get sales there. Why not the Med (wasn't it the most wanted in the online survey)? SE-Asia (which has never been done), South Pacific, Aleutians, etc etc.

Half the gripes about this Western expansion are that it is just retreading old ground covered in god-knows how many other sims, while ignoring "Forgotten Battles". It would be a lot more accepted if this was to include prior to 1942-43 USAAF involvement. While it's convenient for most to ignore the early appearance and problems for the USAAF bombing campaign (ie getting repeatedly slaughtered by the Luftwaffe), why does this mean that anything prior to P-51D & B17F/G must be completely ignored?

This program should not be a slave to popular US history, but instead cover a diverse range of battles and aircraft that saw action in WW2. The war was not USAAF vs Luftwaffe 1943-45 or US vs Japan w/ carriers and B-29s mid 1942-45.

Why not try these periods:
1939-1942 Western Front
1940-1945 Med
1941-1943 Pacific
1941-1945 SE-Asia
1941-1945 South Pacific
1941-1943 Middle East
1940-1945 Arctic Convoys/Northern Front/Norway
1933-1945 China, Manchuria
1936-1938 Spanish Civil War

All those conflicts, barely touched. Why plow old ground just because the US was there?

----------------------------------------

Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly, on the other hand goes all the way to the
bone.

Lt.Percy: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do ?"
Blackadder: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."

RichardI
09-13-2003, 01:22 AM
pakeyluv:-
With all due respect, IL-2 is no longer strictly an Eastern Front game. Those days are gone and have been for some time.
You just need to open your eyes to see it. Nothing personal, and no insult intended, it's just a fact.

Rich

<Center>http://www.ghosts.com/images/postimages/THUNDERBOLT.jpg <Center>I've got 140 109's cornered over Berlin!

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 02:34 AM
Richard is right. The original IL-2 was an Eastern Front sim,but technically FB isn't as limited. I think Owl NZ's suggestions for possible campaigns would are great!

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg


Message Edited on 09/12/0308:35PM by necrobaron

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 02:37 AM
pls read this thread /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=yzbqu

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 04:45 AM
People like you peevs me off. Why limit the game to Eastern Front only? If you remember, Oleg did show some screen shots with islands and stuff, so Pacific is not out of the question. With the F4u, and P-38, all we need is maps for the pacific!!!

Gib

pakeyluv wrote:
- What is the point of adding A6M Japanese Zeroes to
- FB, when they never fought on the Eastern front?
- Realism is going out of the window!!
-
-



I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

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XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 04:47 AM
The Spitfire was not ready. Blame it on the 3rd party modelers, not Oleg or Ic.

Dunkelgrun wrote:
- ianboys wrote:
-- 1. Who said they were 3rd party?
--
-- 2. FB is soon to be released in Japan. That's why.
--
-
-
- Bad PR Ian. FB and IL-2 have been available in UK
- since day 1, but no Spitfire. Don't our pennies
- count for anything? Spit V, lend-lease etc, etc.
-
- Boo! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
- Not impressed with that argument at all.
-
-
-
-
-
- <CENTER>
-

- <IMG
- SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.j
- pg"
-

- Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking.
- Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines.
- Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of
- the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable.
- Those sitting on the right... please look to your
- left!



I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

<center><form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post">
<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_xclick">
<input type="hidden" name="business" value="gibbage@lycos.com">
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XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 05:10 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- People like you peevs me off. Why limit the game to
- Eastern Front only? If you remember, Oleg did show
- some screen shots with islands and stuff, so Pacific
- is not out of the question. With the F4u, and P-38,
- all we need is maps for the pacific!!!
-
- Gib

To be fair, there is a huge difference between doing it, and doing it right. Sure, you could throw an F4U and a Zero into a dogfight server over some generic islands and have some fun, but to do any Pacific theatre justice (except CBI, perhaps) you'd need:

New maps.

A whole new set of objects and textures to fill the maps in with.

A whole new set of ships and vehicles.

More complex ship DMs.

Carriers and all their attendant complexities.

Infantry, since vehicles play a much more limited role.

A new Dynamic campaign generator that can deal with island-hopping and large scale naval ops.

A whole new set of AI aircraft to flesh the dynamic campaign out and make it realistic.


People forget that, while online play is tons of fun, the single player experience is the real heart of FB, and I don't mean QMBs. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 05:18 AM
ianboys wrote:
- 1. Who said they were 3rd party?
-
- 2. FB is soon to be released in Japan. That's why.
-

The text for the aircraft lists the A6M as being developed by a Japanese fan of FB, and the Ki-84 as being developed by Luthier.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 05:38 AM
pakeyluv wrote:
- My question still stands, did they actually
- dogfight?
-
-
Of course they did. And not just Zeros.
But those Russians were flying planes were not decorated with Soviet markings.
They fought and died there flying for China as volunteers.



AKA_Bogun

---------------
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.

- Tom Clancy

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 10:12 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- The Spitfire was not ready. Blame it on the 3rd
- party modelers, not Oleg or Ic.
-
- Dunkelgrun wrote:
-- ianboys wrote:
--- 1. Who said they were 3rd party?
---
--- 2. FB is soon to be released in Japan. That's why.
---
--
--
-- Bad PR Ian. FB and IL-2 have been available in UK
-- since day 1, but no Spitfire. Don't our pennies
-- count for anything? Spit V, lend-lease etc, etc.
--
-- Boo! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
-- Not impressed with that argument at all.
--


Ok Gib, I'll buy that one for now, but you must admit, it does look cynically commercially motivated. Nothing wrong in that of course, but unless the Japanese version is concentrating purely on the conflict between Russia & Japan plus the existing scenarios then the name Forgotten Battles should be done away with.
Nobody has forgotten the war in the Pacific or Normandy.
Cheers!

<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.jpg"


Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 10:34 AM
pakeyluv wrote:
- What is the point of adding A6M Japanese Zeroes to
- FB, when they never fought on the Eastern front?
- Realism is going out of the window!!
- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -

I also first thought that zero was a no no in fb but when u consider the magnetism all the "great"planes have on ww2 interrested flyers u understand that this will "force" them
to buy fb cause they all want to fly their favorite.

Zero
spit
mosquito
p51D
gladiator
hellcat
ta
b17
and so on......../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 11:25 AM
Consider this. The P-51 was AI only when FB was released, and still is to this date. If it was "cynically commercially motivated" dont you think it would have been flyable for the release in US? Having a P-51 on the box cover would have sold a LOT more. Yes, Oleg is doing a Zero and stuff for Japan, but why not? The Brits got there UBER Hurricane, and the Yanks got a crippled P-47.

Gib

Dunkelgrun wrote:
- Gibbage1 wrote:
-- The Spitfire was not ready. Blame it on the 3rd
-- party modelers, not Oleg or Ic.
--
-
-
- Ok Gib, I'll buy that one for now, but you must
- admit, it does look cynically commercially
- motivated. Nothing wrong in that of course, but
- unless the Japanese version is concentrating purely
- on the conflict between Russia & Japan plus the
- existing scenarios then the name Forgotten Battles
- should be done away with.
- Nobody has forgotten the war in the Pacific or
- Normandy.
- Cheers!
-

I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

<center><form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post">
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XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 02:58 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- The Brits got there UBER
- Hurricane, and the Yanks got a crippled P-47.
-
- Gib
Yeah and now WE got the crippled plane and the Yanks got the UBER one! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

S! Simon.
<center>

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.downloadcounter.com/cgi-bin/download.pl?username=James_Jones&account=705).

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/USsig.jpg
<font color="#000000">It's my attitude not my aptitude that determines my altitude.</font></center>

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 03:47 PM
Extreme_One wrote:
- Gibbage1 wrote:
-- The Brits got there UBER
-- Hurricane, and the Yanks got a crippled P-47.
--
-- Gib
- Yeah and now WE got the crippled plane and the Yanks
- got the UBER one! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
-

The 47 is not an uber plane and is still crippled (tho much improved) and the Mustang at tree hugger level is not one either,decent,but still a BnZ plane. Both were meant for the higher skies of combat.

What also some don't know or forget that by the time the 51 entered in numbers alot of the good german pilots were out of action and it was not uncommon for the the 51 pilots to encounter low time LW pilots or w/ thier range filght school pilots. This helped their fame as a LW plane killer. It was the hard fought battles from 1942 on till the 51 took over by the P-47's that fought back the LW to the Rhine in the air killing alot of their good pilots. Paving the way for the rest.

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 04:23 PM
Gib,

I think that you've missed my point.

- Gibbage1 wrote:
-
- Yes, Oleg is doing a Zero and stuff for
- Japan, but why not? The Brits got there UBER
- Hurricane, and the Yanks got a crippled P-47.

Ok. Flyable planes in FB by country of origin (ignoring all the different versions):

Russia - 13
Germany - 5
USA - 4 (soon to be 5)
Japan - 0 (soon to be 2)
Great Britain - 1
Poland - 1

If I was a 'lets have more British planes' whiner I don't think that the Hurricane alone would satisfy me. But I'm not. I would like to have the planes that go with the scenarios. P-51 and B-17s are fine, I can use them on the Berlin map against Bf109s, Fw190s and Me262s. And hopefully the Me163 as well when it comes out. Zeros and P-51s are fine, but not over Normandy.

Normandy map. No Spitfire, Tempest, Typhoon, Lancaster, B-24 Liberator, P-38 Lightning, A-20 Boston, etc. Not going to be much of an air battle is it? Unless this lot and more are coming in the paid add-on. Now wouldn't that be something?

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Cheers!

PS The UBER Hurricane? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
'Clearly inferior performance to contemporary enemy fighters.' - from the IL-2 front page a/c descriptions. All the Russians could find good to say about them was that the radios worked!


<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/airplane1.3.jpg"


Ladies & gentlemen, this is the captain speaking. Thankyou for choosing to fly Mandarin Airlines. Those passengers sitting on the left-hand side of the aeroplane please make yourselves comfortable. Those sitting on the right... please look to your left!