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View Full Version : P51 vs. Me262



domenlovrec
04-12-2006, 02:33 PM
So, i was flying high usualy (18.000feet)... I was getting bored but sudenly i see Me262 below me. Cool! My adrenalin is rocket high as i dive on him, but damit, he's faster! So i'm like: ****, **** ** *****! I've never had dogfight with Me262 ----> soon i was ctrl+e. What tactic should i use against Me262? I know Mustang is faster than P51-NA, still... HELP!

slo_1_2_3
04-12-2006, 02:39 PM
I'd say floor it in the other direction and hope he doesn't see you.
But thats just what I think.

Friendly_flyer
04-12-2006, 02:40 PM
Get in fast when he can't see you and give him a quick squirt of .50ies. The engines flame up quite easily.

Never engage a 262 that you can't take out in one pass. In a 1 on 1 fignt, the 262 holds all the cards.

OldMan____
04-12-2006, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by domenlovrec:
So, i was flying high usualy (18.000feet)... I was getting bored but sudenly i see Me262 below me. Cool! My adrenalin is rocket high as i dive on him, but damit, he's faster! So i'm like: ****, **** ** *****! I've never had dogfight with Me262 ----> soon i was ctrl+e. What tactic should i use against Me262? I know Mustang is faster than P51-NA, still... HELP!

If it is already at high speed and saw you... you have NO CHANCE! At very high speed it is better than any plane, period. You wanna kill him, don´t let him see you or get him really slow.

SithSpeeder
04-12-2006, 03:18 PM
What about altitude envelopes? In other words, which plane goes higher? I dunno...anyone?

* _54th_Speeder *

VW-IceFire
04-12-2006, 04:28 PM
The way it was done in WWII was with superior numbers and superior altitude along with the element of surprise. You had the altitude but you didn't have the numbers or surprise so your chances were slim. The 262 has most of the advantages unless he turns...

You can TRY to catch him...dive full out, 110% throttle, radiator closed, trim the rudder to compensate for the rapid speed change and fly as straight a line as possible.

OldMan____
04-12-2006, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The way it was done in WWII was with superior numbers and superior altitude along with the element of surprise. You had the altitude but you didn't have the numbers or surprise so your chances were slim. The 262 has most of the advantages unless he turns...

You can TRY to catch him...dive full out, 110% throttle, radiator closed, trim the rudder to compensate for the rapid speed change and fly as straight a line as possible.

Even turning is not a good idea. No plane can keep at a long turn at 600 kph alongside a Me 262. Your best bet is luck... or the force.. the one that you have in most abundance.

tigertalon
04-12-2006, 05:34 PM
There are two most important properties of a fighter: speed and firepower. Me262 holds them both compared to P51.

Texan...
04-12-2006, 05:46 PM
Not sure, but I'd venture to say P51s got more kills on 262s than the other way around. Yes, I know the whole landing/takeoff routine....

In Oleg land, I haven't been downed by a 262 in ages...maybe even just once or twice total. Certainly not in a P51. The SwallowBird is pretty easily sidestepped on a decent no icon, no baloney server.

Get above them, swoop down and smoke an engine.

Done.

"The first time I saw a jet, I shot it down." ~ Charles Yeager

Brain32
04-12-2006, 05:57 PM
Exactly what Texan said, Me262 is hopeless in any kind of manouvering, if you see him just turn he can run or die then. I have never been shot down by a Me262. Me 262 is a good bouncer, and that's about it...

Xiolablu3
04-12-2006, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Exactly what Texan said, Me262 is hopeless in any kind of manouvering, if you see him just turn he can run or die then. I have never been shot down by a Me262. Me 262 is a good bouncer, and that's about it...

Is that because you disconnect just before they shoot? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Charos
04-12-2006, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by Texan...:
Not sure, but I'd venture to say P51s got more kills on 262s than the other way around. Yes, I know the whole landing/takeoff routine....


This would reflect the fact that.

#1 The ME262 was utilised in two roles.
Ground attack and Bomber interception.

Any P51 Shot down in general just happened to flit in front of a ME-262's gunsight.

#2 by comparison a P51's role was to protect the bombers from the ME262 IE: Main role shoot ME-262's.

#3 As mentioned many 262's were lost while takeing off or landing - ANY AC is easy to kill in this flight regime - more so the 262 in this time period.

#4 The weight of numbers against the ME-262 alone would highly favour the P51 in a K to D ratio.

Brain32
04-12-2006, 06:51 PM
Is that because you disconnect just before they shoot? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
No maybe because I never encountered a pair of them, only one at the time, and in this cases if you see him you have to be pretty darn stupid to get shot down http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Do you disconnect when fired upon?

Nimits
04-12-2006, 07:01 PM
If you have competant pilots at the controls with no significant extra-plane tactical advantages, a 1v1 between a P-51 and Me-262 should result in a draw. The P-51 can turn inside the Me-262 all day, and the Me-262 should never let himself get slow enough for the P-51 to get a good shot in.

Slickun
04-12-2006, 07:31 PM
A Mustang could go as fast as a ME-262, sorta.

In a dive, a P-51 could build up, and still maneuver, at 262 level speeds.

That said, 262 keeps his speed up, he is almost invulnerable to any prop plane.

Ugly_Kid
04-12-2006, 11:32 PM
PErhaps you don't get shot down by them on DF server because they are banned everywhere, eh?

In online wars where they are present once in a lifetime and there is typically max. 2 of them out of let's say 8 axis planes. There is always a shouting match who's going to get them - since you simply make toast of the opponents. Particularly easy picking are engaged fighters in a dogfight - they never know what hit them.

Badsight.
04-13-2006, 01:05 AM
P-51s are good fights for Me-262 users , both have good high speed handeling

the P-51 has a turn advantage (instant & sustained) , as well as Roll Rate . if the Schwalb user trys hard turning for more the 180 degrees you will have your guns on him & shooting very quickly

if you meet up high the Me-262 user cannot fight you , over 8K the Jet is hard to DF with & is very much at your mercy if he turns - all he can do better than you is run

BrewsterPilot
04-13-2006, 02:16 AM
P-51 sucks, ME-262 ROCKS!

That's just about it.

WOLFMondo
04-13-2006, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by Ugly_Kid:
PErhaps you don't get shot down by them on DF server because they are banned everywhere, eh?


I've been shot up in a 262 on Warclouds by Fatboy. he followed me around for over 10 minutes, unknown to me, and caught me at the top of a zoom climb after BnZ'ing someone else. Biggest failure of the 262 is the pilots confidence that nothing can catch him. The Mustang MkIII IMO is the best 262 chaser. Its got the speed and its got enough firepower to make the engine burn.

An 11lbs Tempest should also be a very good adversary to the 262, as it was in real life.

mynameisroland
04-13-2006, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Exactly what Texan said, Me262 is hopeless in any kind of manouvering, if you see him just turn he can run or die then. I have never been shot down by a Me262. Me 262 is a good bouncer, and that's about it...

Not strictly true, on UKD there is a map where the Russkis have Yak3P, Yak9U and La7 3x 20mm model and in the Me 262 you can follow any of those aircraft for long enough for a 1/2 sec burst. 4 x 30mm says it all when it comes to the amount of time you need to hold a bandit in your gunsight.

mynameisroland
04-13-2006, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by Nimits:
If you have competant pilots at the controls with no significant extra-plane tactical advantages, a 1v1 between a P-51 and Me-262 should result in a draw. The P-51 can turn inside the Me-262 all day, and the Me-262 should never let himself get slow enough for the P-51 to get a good shot in.
Your logic could be applied in a Bf 109 vs P51 or a Zeke vs P51 fight also.

I love the one sided law of physics that some people apply.

eg The Hellcat would own the Fw 190 because it can out turn it.<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Yeah but the Fw 190 has better ROC and is faster so could out energy fight the Hellcat ..</span> That doesnt matter because the Hellcat was teh best and had .50 cals.<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">So does that mean that the Zero was better than the Hellcat because it could out manuver it ?</span> No the Hellcat owns the Zero because it is faster and a better energy fighter....

and so on and so forth

Speed is most important guys, then firepower, then elevator authority, then rate of roll, then visibility, then and only even maybe is turn circle.

Von_Rat
04-13-2006, 05:16 AM
i got a 15 kills to 3 losses at warclouds in me262a1. not even one of the losses was due to enemy action.
2 losses were from losing internet connection and one was from landing to fast and rolling to far off runway. lol
can't remember how many p51s i killed, a few im sure.

but i can tell you i was much more afraid of a p51 or p47 than any spit.

im no good in the me262 2a though, go figure.



"the first time i saw chuck yeager, i shot him down",,,,,, german pilot.

RCAF_Irish_403
04-13-2006, 05:55 AM
How to beat the 262? Kill 'em on the runway.

domenlovrec
04-13-2006, 08:52 AM
What about acceleration?

Jumoschwanz
04-13-2006, 10:29 AM
Anyone who gets shot down in an Me-262 is f ucking up.

Xiolablu3
04-13-2006, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:


Speed is most important guys, then firepower, then elevator authority, then rate of roll, then visibility, then and only even maybe is turn circle.

Agreed in many situations, but once you commit to a dogfight, turning circle is one of the most important manouvres in air combat.

Of course this is only if both people commit to a dogfight, if they dont then your list is spot on.

You yourself know this as I have seen you do great in a Spitfire Mk9, one of the slowest late war planes in the game, but great at manouvres.

Slow speed can be compensated for by height and energy if the pilot is skillful enough. (I know that you know this already http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, but just to extend your point a little for other people)

I think it all depends on what the situation demands. I have often been unsuccesful fighting Spits in a Ki84, which is quite a bit faster, switched to a Zero and had much more success. Not always of course, but sometimes. Often you HAVE to get into a dogfight to save a teamate or defend an objective.

OldMan____
04-13-2006, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nimits:
If you have competant pilots at the controls with no significant extra-plane tactical advantages, a 1v1 between a P-51 and Me-262 should result in a draw. The P-51 can turn inside the Me-262 all day, and the Me-262 should never let himself get slow enough for the P-51 to get a good shot in.
Your logic could be applied in a Bf 109 vs P51 or a Zeke vs P51 fight also.

I love the one sided law of physics that some people apply.

eg The Hellcat would own the Fw 190 because it can out turn it.<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Yeah but the Fw 190 has better ROC and is faster so could out energy fight the Hellcat ..</span> That doesnt matter because the Hellcat was teh best and had .50 cals.<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">So does that mean that the Zero was better than the Hellcat because it could out manuver it ?</span> No the Hellcat owns the Zero because it is faster and a better energy fighter....

and so on and so forth

Speed is most important guys, then firepower, then elevator authority, then rate of roll, then visibility, then and only even maybe is turn circle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you forgot climb and acceleration (in fact both are the same). I would put it in second place.

HellToupee
04-13-2006, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Exactly what Texan said, Me262 is hopeless in any kind of manouvering, if you see him just turn he can run or die then. I have never been shot down by a Me262. Me 262 is a good bouncer, and that's about it...

Me262 is quite manoverable, infact i can outturn a great many props with it, tho not really best way to fly it. You have 4 30mms if your a good shot u can easily rack up the kills and be completly untouchable if u just fly fast, theres no need zoom up and down makes you easy kill for anyone above u just fly around level even people 2000meters above will require luck to even get in guns range. Even flying a great turner like spitfire most kills are distracted ppl going after someone else, and me262 is even better in that situation.

Von_Rat
04-13-2006, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by HellToupee:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
Exactly what Texan said, Me262 is hopeless in any kind of manouvering, if you see him just turn he can run or die then. I have never been shot down by a Me262. Me 262 is a good bouncer, and that's about it...

Me262 is quite manoverable, infact i can outturn a great many props with it, tho not really best way to fly it. You have 4 30mms if your a good shot u can easily rack up the kills and be completly untouchable if u just fly fast, theres no need zoom up and down makes you easy kill for anyone above u just fly around level even people 2000meters above will require luck to even get in guns range. Even flying a great turner like spitfire most kills are distracted ppl going after someone else, and me262 is even better in that situation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


wow,,,this is a first.

great post hell.... i agree 100 percent.

OldMan____
04-14-2006, 04:59 AM
ANyone thinking Me262 is hopeless at turns will burn to ground. Try to follow it at >500 kph turns. I can only call very few planes capable of maneuvering as well in all axes at this speed as the Me262.. just look at IL2 compare... there is a large ares in graphics where it outurns almost anything.