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Mjollnir111675
11-20-2004, 02:12 PM
...carry binoculars with them? Not fer seeing planes mind you but fer scopin' terrain?Especially bombers. I dont know it just seems to me that I would've carried them.I could see the usefuless in that.
Has anyone read anything like that in any books?If so what did they say bout them?

Mjollnir111675
11-20-2004, 02:12 PM
...carry binoculars with them? Not fer seeing planes mind you but fer scopin' terrain?Especially bombers. I dont know it just seems to me that I would've carried them.I could see the usefuless in that.
Has anyone read anything like that in any books?If so what did they say bout them?

XyZspineZyX
11-20-2004, 02:19 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
Hello,

Recon planes only! For a figther it is more a problem to have objets into the cockpit than there is a advantage for it.

Sensei.

Mjollnir111675
11-20-2004, 02:23 PM
Just thinkin havin a pair slung round yer neck wouldnt get in the way (that I know of) and could have its benefits fer id'ing target vessels.

SilverWings25th
11-20-2004, 02:41 PM
nah u take it out of context. Would a pilot carry binocs while flying? Yeah I would if I had my own plane, but I have to carry enough **** around so I dont. you really dont need them. Not always a bad idea though.

Mjollnir111675
11-20-2004, 02:57 PM
Yeah I guess I should worry bout that when the torp planes come,huh? That way I can stay outta one ships AA "dome" if I want the other.

"When oh when will they let me FLY me avenger"

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/873935/george_hw_bush_pitching.gif
"Puhleez Barb!"

TheGozr
11-20-2004, 03:02 PM
Glove compartiment..

WWSensei
11-20-2004, 03:17 PM
Have something hanging around your neck like binoculars would seem like a good idea until that first 5G turn that almost chokes you to death or the first -1G dive that has them smack you in the head...

Mjollnir111675
11-20-2004, 03:19 PM
or when that slipsteam grabs 'em on yer way out of a smoker!!!

Athosd
11-20-2004, 03:20 PM
The vibration in a fighter cockpit might make them rather difficult to use - however I do recall reading some accounts where they were employed.

Mjollnir111675
11-20-2004, 03:21 PM
@ Athosd: any you remember off hand?

Fliger747
11-20-2004, 03:28 PM
I remember accounts of them being used. Having used them in the past flying, the big thing is not too much magnification. 6 Power is good, 7 a max. I have a set of US WWII 6x30's which are surprisingly good.

Wish I could remember who was using them, but was in the Pacific, and Corsair driver as I recall.

Athosd
11-20-2004, 04:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:
@ Athosd: any you remember off hand? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, can't recall any specific sources http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

FWIW their use seems to have been most common amongst formation leaders - particular useful when trying to ID shipping.

Cheers

Athos

Zyzbot
11-20-2004, 04:53 PM
Some RAF night fighters used them. Read the book "Night Fighter" and you'll find specific reference to the use of binoculars to identfy aircraft.

Hendley
11-20-2004, 05:08 PM
I think that many pilots would carry binoculars with them if they could.

Zyzbot is right on about Night Fighter. Also, in Tora Tora Tora the middle observer in the Kates is shown using binoculars. Just a movie, but no reason to think it isn't accurate on this point.

VF15_Muto
11-20-2004, 06:04 PM
Yes, many fighter pilots did. Usually Air Group and Squadron leaders, who did not intend to engage in a fight but rather fly overhead and 'direct' the battle. Many Navy fighters had a small pouch hanging on the interior right side of the cockpit that could hold binocs.

S~!
VF15_Muto

Willey
11-20-2004, 06:12 PM
AFAIK A-10 pilots have binoculars. So it makes sense at least http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Mozzie_21
11-20-2004, 06:21 PM
The night fighter binoculars were really low low magnification but they amplified the light a lot. So they were a really primative form of night vision.

Say the pupil is 5mm in diameter and you have 50mm outer lens diameter bionculars with no zoom, you would get a 100 times magnification of light. That's pretty impressive.

Zyzbot
11-20-2004, 08:33 PM
I found this comment:

"....the Black Widow was designed for a crew of three (pilot, radar operator [R/O], and gunner), the gunner sometimes did not fly in combat because the remote-controlled gun turret was either deleted or fired by the pilot. Armor plates protected the crew from machine gun fire. The pilot could use 5.8 power night binoculars mounted in the cockpit and connected to the optical gunsight. Four illuminated dots on the gunsight allowed the pilot to determine the enemy‚‚ā¨ôs range. The R/O sat backwards, unable to see what lay ahead, his eyes trained on the radar scope between his knees. "

Mjollnir111675
11-20-2004, 08:40 PM
@ everyone,

Tanks(read:Pz Kpfw V Ausf G) fer the feedback!! I appreciate it.

@Zyzbot: Man I figured someone somewhere would've used them.It seems like a no-brainer to me.Especially bombers and the naval "forward air observers" as Muto stated.

Thanks all!!!

Fliger747
11-20-2004, 08:42 PM
Interesting! Must have been a quite flexible mounting or a 'holder' as the slightest vibration transmitted to a 'glass' is amplified significantly.

p1ngu666
11-20-2004, 08:46 PM
mossie co pilot used the night vision thingys so pilot didnt wreck his night vision http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

one of the advantages of side by side cockpit
think mossie had cockpit like that due to working advantages like that

chris455
11-20-2004, 08:54 PM
Sakai carried a camera. Why not binoculars?

Mjollnir111675
11-20-2004, 09:00 PM
You see I only mentioned it cuz when I man an A/v(in me fave armor sim) I use them to the extreme.I can see where they could come in especially useful on a clear day @ 15K ft.

Jungmann
11-21-2004, 02:56 PM
P-61 driver had a pair of 6x42 binocs mounted on rails that folded into his pov and back to the left of his head. Not very susceesful in combat (because of the tunnel vision) and many removed in the field.

PBY/PBM type patrol and ASR ac had special (and very high quality BuAero binoculars issued. In addition to usual deck quality 7x50s, 6x42 wide angles made by Kollsman were excellent. Pick of the crop was 7x50 wide angles made by Bausch and Lomb. Probably best US binocular made in war, and arguably ever.

Beaufighter and Mosquito night-fighter versions had a fixed focus 5x80 (IIRC) binocular issued to the observer--big aperatures, lots of light gathering for night viewing, but I bet with a/c vibration and the turbulence from closing in on a target's slipstream, they were't used very much.

cheers

Mjollnir111675
11-21-2004, 04:06 PM
Bausch and lomb the best of the war?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif
Try Zeiss!!By far better than anything that anyone else ever made.That is why ami's,brits and russo's all clamored for them especially the panzer feild glasses.

Zyzbot
11-21-2004, 04:15 PM
He said it was the best US binocular...not the best anywhere.

Mozzie_21
11-21-2004, 04:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jungmann:
Beaufighter and Mosquito night-fighter versions had a fixed focus 5x80 (IIRC) binocular issued to the observer--big aperatures, lots of light gathering for night viewing, but I bet with a/c vibration and the turbulence from closing in on a target's slipstream, they were't used very much.
cheers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If they have low magnification the vibrations would not be magnified much.

Jungmann
11-21-2004, 06:12 PM
The guy is right--Zeiss made the best military optics of WW II, hands down. Esecially the naval 8x60, which some people think is the best mass-produced glass ever made. And yeah, I did mean US glasses when I mentioned B and L, although that particular binocular holds its own next to the Zeisses.

AFIIK, no Axis air force or the Russians ever produced binoculars for their own specs. If aircrew used any, they used infantry or naval models.

Cheers,

p1ngu666
11-21-2004, 08:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mozzie_21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jungmann:
Beaufighter and Mosquito night-fighter versions had a fixed focus 5x80 (IIRC) binocular issued to the observer--big aperatures, lots of light gathering for night viewing, but I bet with a/c vibration and the turbulence from closing in on a target's slipstream, they were't used very much.
cheers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If they have low magnification the vibrations would not be magnified much. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

u haveto be close at night (relitivly) too see enemy aircraft. they where mainly used for id'ing planes.
be like mossie guided onto contact, homes in on own radar, then nav takes a look thru goggles when its in visual range to id. then it gets 4 cannons shooting it if its enemy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

btw, vibrations and swaying are probably issues, especialy if its like being in a car