View Full Version : Hans Werner Lerche (the guy not the Batplane)

02-21-2007, 03:37 AM
Hans Werner Lerche in his book Luftwaffe Test Pilot speaks very highly of his flights in a captured Tempest V in 1945: "there was no doubt about this one, the Tempest was an impressive high powered aeroplane by any standards the improvement in performance and aerodynamic characteristics (over the Typhoon) was stunning". Lerche aslo goes on to say that by his measurments the Tempest V was faster than the P51 D and that only the Me 262 jet fighter was its superior in climb and maximum speed.

WG CDR Roland Beamont on testing Tempests for Hawker experimental department at Langley. Aeroplane monthly June 1983.

Does anyone have this guys book and can expand on this section where he flies the Tempest, or is there anything on the internet which contains more excerpts. From my knowledge I think Lerche flew a 9lb Tempest - but this is heresay. His comments must also be taken in context but nonetheless are pretty generous.

Are there any Russian test reports on the Tempest V ? I know they were not given an example but perhaps they have estimates or captured one from Germany at he end of the war? It seems that in the immediate cold war period the Tempest V would be the sort of opponent the tactical fighters of the VVS would be coming up against if war broke out amongst the Allies.

02-21-2007, 07:36 AM

02-21-2007, 07:42 AM
Try Ebay...think I may have seen it there once...

02-21-2007, 08:35 AM
Was lucky enough to meet and spend a good deal of time with a gentleman here in Victoria, a George "lefty" Whitman


He was with 3 Squadron much of the war - going from Hurris to Spits, up to Tempests. He apparently scored the very first air-to-air kill in a Tempest.

He also test flew 'tame' german planes. He always claimed the Tempest was the best of the bunch of all the allied planes - with the long-nose 190 the one plane to match it.

Lefty, btw is an Order of Canada holder as well. Quite a gent!

02-21-2007, 09:16 AM
Don't we have the Tempest in the game? I always hear good things about the Tempest but Oleg's leaves a lot to be desired.

What is your take on Oleg's Tempest?

02-21-2007, 09:43 AM
What is your take on Oleg's Tempest?

It's good when used correctly, but is more of a veterens steed than a n00b special.

The thinking mans Spitfire if you will http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

02-21-2007, 09:54 AM
The barn door immediately behind the pilot's head is a bit of a drag; the Queen Mary II could be behind me and I'd never know.

But! After some tips from other players I've finally gotten the thing to perform, it's pretty groovy really.

02-21-2007, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Don't we have the Tempest in the game? I always hear good things about the Tempest but Oleg's leaves a lot to be desired.

What is your take on Oleg's Tempest?

The Tempest is excellent. The only contenders to match it at low level are the Fw 190D9 and the Me 262. It is slightly slower than the Fw 190D9 as we have only the 9lb boost variant but it is faster than any Fw 190 A or Bf 109. Once you get above 4000m its enemys especially the D9 become better but it is still faster than all Antons and most 109s at pretty much all heights.

Its main strengths are its perfect gun sight, powerful armament and its good dive acceleration. These are complimented by very good control authority at speed and great (for its size) manuverability.

Its main weaknesses are its lack of rear view spoiling its superb canopy, its weak damage model and its engine overheat model which is still somewhat porked.

All in all it is like a Fw 190 A series with its speed and firepower but one that can also turn and burn. It is certainly no La5 FN or Spitfire IX but against late Fw 190s and Bf 109s, which were never that manuverable to begin with, it can hold its own in a turn fight and only the D9 has the HP to match it through most manuvers. All in all it is a bit of a brute but certainly not noob friendly as it requires constant trimming and engine managment to make it sing.

02-21-2007, 12:47 PM
Queen Mary II

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif My Sides!!

02-21-2007, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Does anyone have this guys book and can expand on this section where he flies the Tempest, or is there anything on the internet which contains more excerpts. From my knowledge I think Lerche flew a 9lb Tempest - but this is heresay. His comments must also be taken in context but nonetheless are pretty generous.

I have Lerche's book.

It says something like this:
"First in Rechlin I had time and a possibility to have a closer look at this exceptional aircraft. Hawker-Tempest had - most probably Tempest V - like Typhoon - from which it was further developed - a large noticable watercooler under the 24 cylinder, each of which brought 100 HP. 6 cylinders were organized in rows which formed a letter H. Noticable with Tempest were above all the thinner wings that in spite of the larger area promised a lower profile drag. In order to accomodate an additional tank, the fuselage was longer and the vertical fin was equipped with a strake that blended it to the fuselage. It was a wonder what had been obtained in performance and characteristics, compared to the predecessormodel. Because of the teething problems this had initially a bad reputation, which after the modifications and installation of bomb and rocket racks became quite a feared low-level ground attack aircraft. I had flown Typhoon, as well. As far as I can recollect it came to us damaged and after the repairs the engine was not fully 100% in order. For this reason a proper testing was not possible with this aircraft. I transfered it shortly afterwards to the "Loot-Circus" in Oranienburg.
Tempest was an impressive powerful force packet. With less fuel and payload it got an excellent power to weight ratio of 2 kg/HP which means that each HP had to accelerate only 2 kgs of weight. In the hopeless war situation one asked every now and then what work still made sense. More and more people were pulled out for the "Final Victory". Supplies of fuel, light, heating and nourishment were more and more in shorter supply. Part of the time we were working with shovels and digging trenches.

I had decided to fly at least couple of speed measurements at altitude. After two starts I was already familiar with it and was pleased to fly it.
At third start I could conclude that the top speed at 5000 m was about 680 km/h. With that it was somewhat faster than the old Mustang B, which I have flown. Anyway it was speed, which we could achieve and compete first with the new engines DB 603 and Jumo 213.
Only Messerschmitt Jet Me 262 had superior speed to the enemy pistonfighters. It was few in numbers and probably tactically wrongly used. Time after time we could hear that the jets were shotdown by Mustang, Thunderbold and Tempest. I had often seen it myself how Me 262 pilots engaged enemy fighters in turnfights. Except for the unavoidable surprise attacks from altitude and in particular during landing approach, where the jet was heavy with extended landing gear and flaps, the turnfights were "the thing" to be avoided in Me 262. The aircraft with higher wingloading need a higher minimum speed in the curves and therefore require a larger turn radius."

He had a problem with the throttle (cable cut) and had to perform quite a hairy landing without engine with Tempest but I am am too tired to translate the bit now.

The book does not detail the model any closer - the type "Tempest V" is only a quessimate from Lerche's part. No boost pressure's etc. were mentioned. This is the case with almost any of the stories in the book - it is quite anecdotical, since he could not go back to the records and check. It is good reading though (don't know if a translation exists).

02-21-2007, 02:18 PM
The key point here is that it's faster than the P-51B at 5 km, which is rather low for an early P-51, and thus not especially surprising.

02-21-2007, 04:36 PM
Thanks Ugly_Kid, that was http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/wunderbar/imp_300066.jpg

02-21-2007, 07:29 PM
I know some of you hate to hear this but I flew against the Tempest piloted by AI. I'd rather do this then fly against a real pilot online for a few reasosn such as lag and the pilot's ability. AI's ability is static.

I flew the 109 against 4 AI Tempests. My goal wasn't to shoot them down but simply to stay on their 6.

I was able to stay on their 6 but just barely, and often to the point of black out. In turning the 109 and Tempest seem to be matched in speed. When we met (3000m) we started dancing and at no time were up to almost 5000m. Once they were unable to shake me they brought it down to under 1000m where they did seem to have some advantage.

Then I flew the Tempest against the 4 AI 109s. Same thing. We met at 3000 and quickly went up to nearly 5000m. Since I wasn't used to the Tempest (I'm a vet 109 pilot) the 109's were making me work and I was unable to catch their 6. I found the Tempest lost energy really quickly, but I see me as the cause since I'm not used to the plane.

One thing is sure though, you can't apply 109 thought to the Tempest. I think P-51 pilots would like it.

The most negative thing about the plane is the sound. Very annoying.

02-22-2007, 02:55 AM
IF your AI Tempests weren't able to get away from you in speed, then be sure the variant of 109 you were flying was considerably faster than the Tempests.

If I set up a practice flight of AI 109 against my Tempest, I never pick anything greater than G6-late, otherwise it's just a senseless 20 minutes of chasing them round the map or breaking off to trick them into coming back.

02-22-2007, 03:24 AM
It's the g2 always. My favorite ride. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I don't know about speed in a straight line but they couldn't get away when turning and burning.

02-22-2007, 10:57 AM
Pirschjaeger, some of the guys who fly the Tempest and Axis types online think that perhaps the Tempest turns too well. I know that I have experienced hardly any problems fighting Bf 109s at low altitude but I have never fought against the G2. I kind of feel that the Tempest should be able to cope with late war Bf 109s for the most part purely because of the wingloading issues the 109s have. The Tempest at 50% fuel often has a lower wingloading than the G10 or K4 and perhaps at its best height should be very comparable to the 109. Up high it should be no contest however.

02-22-2007, 10:05 PM
I find Oleg created two types of AI pilots, those who climb and those who dive. Well, he seems to have put the divers into the Tempest. Everytime I engage them they go for low alt. I don't mind this and enjoy the challenge but at low alt the 109 heats up rather quickly and is hard to cool down.

One thing I noticed about the AI is that they are very good at conserving energy. I'm not surprised since they have "inside information". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'm going to try some more runs against the Tempest to see if anything new happens. Most importantly, avoid their guns. They've got quit a bite.

When flying the Tempest myself, I find it losses E very quickly. It does remind me of the 190 in some aspects. Sometime I'd like to try following an experienced Tempest pilot online. The AI gets just a little too predictable.

I still think the Spitfire was a much better plane then the Tempest. Had the Hurricane had more power it probably would have been better than the Spitfire.

Like HayateAce, I'm still a 109 fan though. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

02-22-2007, 10:11 PM
I have Lerche's book, "Luftwaffe Test Pilot" and the Tempest was certainly no turn fighter in reality - all Bf-109 version's and most versions of the Fw-190 would out-turn it.

02-22-2007, 10:31 PM
In sustained turns the Tempests wing loading and laminar flow wings definitely hurt it, but on the other hand, its high powered engine (you can use it to pull you through) and excellent control authority mean that it can pull into a turn rapidly and do some fantastic instant turns. The 190D-9 can match this but the 109 can't. So any turning you do in a Tempest has to be short and sharp and then the e-bleed overtakes you.

I find the Tempest flies most similar to the Corsair and then the Mustang and FW190 being the next closest. All are best at high speeds and thats where they are most dangerous.

A 109 of any model and a Tempest on the deck at 300kph IAS or less is a pretty much guaranteed win for the 109 unless the Tempest pilot breaks out of the turn and makes a run for it.

One thing I've found interesting...the Tempest is actually not that heavy compared to the Corsair, Mustang, or Thunderbolt. Definitely heavier than the Spitfire, but with 50% fuel the Tempest is not that bad for weight. So the turn gets quite a bit better as the wing loading decreases.