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super71957
05-30-2007, 04:53 PM
One of the more interesting stories in the MTO was of the phantom P-38, which was causing trouble for many crippled bombers. Beginning on June 4, 1943, a crippled bomber was coming back from a mission against the island of Pantelleria. The crew was considering bailing out of their bomber when they spotted a P-38 coming closer. They immediately relaxed knowing it was coming to their aid. The crew continued to dump extra weight from the aircraft, including the guns and ammunition. Before the crew realized what happened, the P-38 erupted in gunfire and destroyed the B-17. The only survivor was the pilot, Lt. Harold Fisher. Fisher was rescued and was the target of fury from the fighter pilots by suggesting it was a friendly P-38 that shot them down.

Several weeks before Lt. Fisher's ordeal, a P-38 pilot was low on fuel and was lost. He actually made an emergency landing just outside of Sardinia. The pilot was captured before he was able to destroy his aircraft. Italian pilot, Lt. Guido Rossi came up with the idea of using this P-38 against the American bombers. Rossi's strategy was to wait until the bombers made their attacks. Rossi would then take off and scout around for stragglers. He actually used this technique to shoot down several bombers. Until Lt. Fisher, no other crews survived to tell of the P-38 shooting them down. The American commanders were under the assumption that these missing bombers just did not make it back just as many before them. Nobody thought a friendly aircraft was the cause.

After Fisher told his story, bombers crews were alerted to look for a lone P-38, which was posing as a friendly. Fisher came up with the idea of using a decoy B-17 to attract Rossi. Fisher's idea was approved and he took off in the experimental YB-40 gunship. This was simply a modified B-17, which had more armor and guns. He flew several missions lagging behind the rest of the formations, but never encountered Rossi. Intelligence was being gathered and the Allies finally learned the identity of the pilot. They also learned that his wife was living in Allied occupied Constantine. An artist actually used a picture of his wife to paint a nose art picture on Fisher's bomber, and included her name, Gina. On August 31, a B-17 raid struck Pisa. Fisher was flying among the bombers, and was actually damaged by enemy fighters. He recovered at a low altitude and had to feather two engines. Before lone, a lone P-38 was approaching and the crew was on high alert. Rossi, using very good English, contacted Fisher, just as he did on previous occasions. Rossi immediately noticed the nose art on the aircraft and spoke with Fisher. Fisher was still uncertain the pilot was Rossi and was chatting with Rossi normally. Fisher decided to bait this pilot to see if it was Rossi or not, and began talking about Gine and her location in Constantine. When Fisher was describing intimate details of their "relationship", Rossi lost his cool. He peeled off and began his attack. Fisher ordered all guns to open up on this P-38, and Rossi had to peel off trailing smoke. Rossi intended to ram the bomber, but began breaking up and could not maintain flight. He was able to ditch in the water and survived. Rossi was later picked up and taken prisoner. Fisher was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross medal for his efforts. Fisher would survive the war, but was killed in a transport accident during the Berlin Airlift. Incidentally, Rossi was one of the mourners at his funeral.

Thought you guys might enjoy this story,well at least the ones who have not before.Enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

berg417448
05-30-2007, 05:05 PM
I found this one the web one day:



"In Martin Caidin's "Fork-Tailed Devil: The P38" he recounts an incident regarding a captured P38 flown by a Captain Rossi and American intelligence efforts to lure it to destruction by means of his wife's picture painted on the nose of a YB-40. Please separate fact from fiction and give the true details of this "incident."

Ferdinando D'Amico:

"Personally, I think people are probably bored with this topic, but you're doing right by discussing it in hopes that it might be possible to set the record straight once or all (I doubt we'll be successful as fiction is always more fascinating than facts, at least many think so...).

The whole matter is a textbook example of how "hearsay", stereotypes and no research could lead to a completely fabricated history.

The article (and later or earlier, the book and chapter) of Martin Caidin, was nothing else than the reprint of an even older article by Glenn Infield titled "One Of Our Own Planes Is Shooting Us Down!" (sic) and I must confess that IMHO it is the kind of "historical" research that causes more damage to history than anything else.

The P-38 mentioned in Caidin's "story" was captured on 12 June 1943 in Sardinia where a ferrying US pilot landed by mistake due to the malfunctioning of the compass. Thus, it became "property" of the Regia Aeronautica and was soon brought to the Italian Test Center of Guidonia (near Rome). This aircraft was flown - with Italian markings - by Col. Angelo Tondi (Chief test pilot of the center) in the Summer of 1943 in half a dozen scrambles against USAAF bombers attacking Rome and Central Italian targets.

On 11 August 1943 Col. Tondi intercepted off the coast the B-17F s/n 42-30307 of 419th BS, 301st BG and shot it down at 12.00 hrs*. This was the only successful interception completed by this aircraft and soon after the P-38 was grounded due to the bad quality of the Italian petrol that had corroded the fuel tanks.

* (cfr. Missing Air Crew Report n.490 available at the US National Archives )

All the above is also proved by photographic evidence, by the accounts of Col. Tondi and by the documents of the Guidonia Test Center reporting all the scrambles effected by the P-38. This material is available to researchers at the Italian Air Force Historical Branch, where I consulted it personally.

The "Captain Guido Rossi", the YB-40 and the soap-opera story of the former romance between the wife of the YB-40 pilot and the Italian pilot (!!) clearly are a joke, or should be... instead they were taken seriously and developed a life of their own. This should tell us a lot about the dangers of writing and spreading information that has not been checked or researched.

Unfortunately, not everyone is willing to accept this or to behave accordingly..."


http://www.aviation-booklist.com/interviews/ferdinando.html

super71957
05-30-2007, 05:13 PM
Thank you for setting this straight berg.

Sheesh,The Internet.

nsteense
05-31-2007, 12:39 AM
Almost sounds like a 'Hollywood bend the history' story (the first one of course). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

woofiedog
05-31-2007, 01:50 AM
http://1stfighter.org/photos/Misc/P38_Italian_1.jpg

P38 that landed at Cagliari-Capoterra in Sardinia on June 12, 1943.

http://1stfighter.org/photos/Misc/P38_Italian_2_sm.jpg

The 12 of June, 1943 a lonely P-38 landed at Capoterra airfield on southern Sardinia. The Italians on the airfield cannot believe what was happening. A soldier, quickly, move a car just on the front of the aircraft to prevent a restart. The P-38's pilot was opening the canopy when he realize that he had landed on the wrong place. He tried to take off but it was too late to do it and he was captured. The pilot - his identity is unknown - was flyng from Malta to Gibraltar ( other sources says he was flyng from Tunis to Pantelleria ) to deliver a bag containing documents and mail. He landed at Capoterra almost out of fuel after a long trip above the Mediterranean Sea . Later was found a compass failure resulting in 30 degrees error on the route . The P-38 was probably an E model upgraded to G models. Voices says that last four digits of the serial number were 2278.

30307 (301 BG, 419 BS, "Bonnie Sue") shot down off the coast of Italy Aug 11, 1943 by captured P-38G flown by Col. Angelo Tondi. MACR 490. The P-38G had been captured Jun 12 when it landed by mistake at Sardinia on a ferry flight.
Six of B-24's crew bailed out from the aircraft.

Lodovik
05-31-2007, 02:39 AM
If there's ever going to be a Hollywood movie of this story, guess which version the script writers are going to use. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Thanks for clearing this, when I first read it I thought it belongs to the same category with the Soviet propaganda piece about the sniper duel in Stalingrad. You know, the one that was used as basis for the movie Enemy At The Gates.
Well, never let the facts get in the way of a good story, or something... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

super71957
05-31-2007, 11:01 AM
Another wild story for ya.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

super71957
05-31-2007, 11:02 AM
Perhaps one of the most unusual kills of an enemy aircraft by performed by Lt. Robert Faurot. Faurot was participating in a mission at the Lae Airdrome in New Guinea on November 26, 1942. Faurot was attempting to drop a 500 lb. bomb on a Japanese airfield, but misjudged his attack and missed the airfield completely. The bomb landed in the water, which in turn created a geyser. At that point in time, a Japanese fighter just took off, made contact with the water geyser, and was destroyed. Faurot was credited with an aerial kill as a result.

SithSpeeder
05-31-2007, 11:19 AM
The Faurot story is apparently true http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Read about his exploits at:
http://www.humboldt1.com/~outcast26/WWII-faurot.htm (http://www.humboldt1.com/%7Eoutcast26/WWII-faurot.htm)

Here is a teaser, though:
On 21 September 1942 the 39th Squadron began operations in their new P-38 Lightnings. General George Kenny, Commander of the Fifth Air Force, made a statement that he would personally present an Air Medal to the pilot that downed the first Jap in combat while flying a P-38. According to records, one day a gentleman from Missouri by the name of Faurot was on a mission over the Japanese Air Base at Lae, New Guinea. For days previous the American pilots had been radioing insults at the Japanese, trying to make them engage in combat. Faurot was leading a flight of four P-38s loaded with 500-pound bombs to be dropped on the airstrip at Lae. As the flight approached Lae, the insults to the Japs began again and Faurot observed a Zero starting to take off. He dived to intercept. Faurot remembered that he still had two bombs under his wings and could not engage the Jap Zero with them, so he quickly released the bombs and pulled back hard on the control yoke to escape the blast of the bombs. He then swung back around to engage the Zero. As he watched, the bombs hit the water and exploded just as the Zero passed over them. The Zero lurched crazily, "winged-over" and crashed into the ocean.

At a "medals" ceremony some time after reading Faurot's submitted mission report, General Kenny (in his memoirs) had this to say, "I asked Faurot if he was going to claim the "FIRST NIP" in air combat in this theater by a P-38. Bob just grinned and asked if he was going to get the Air Medal for his official victory. I answered, "I want you to shoot them down, not splash water on them". General Kenny, whose relationship with "his kids" was marked by the humor of a crusty father, presented Faurot with the Air Medal and whispered in Bob's ear as he pinned it on, "You had better keep this whole matter quiet."

* _54th_Speeder *

super71957
05-31-2007, 12:46 PM
HEH,HEH
Great Story,If anyone else has one put it up here.
There is one I read,about a downed American pilot who stole a FW190.I can"t for the life of me find it again.

berg417448
05-31-2007, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by super71957:
HEH,HEH
Great Story,If anyone else has one put it up here.
There is one I read,about a downed American pilot who stole a FW190.I can"t for the life of me find it again.

Bruce Carr did that one:

http://www.newenglandafa.org/nh/brucecarr.html

Bigha_86
05-31-2007, 04:37 PM
ahahah!cool story!! I also know of a german p-38 landed near switzerland...I don't exactly remember...

By the way, don't touch the italian's girls like fisher... we are dengerous... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

super71957
05-31-2007, 11:42 PM
Bruce Carr"s story is incredible isn"t it?
Imagine yourself in that position in the madness of WWII and pulling that off!! You have to give him great credit,it is one of the most exciting stories in the history of fighter pilots. Come on guys/gals,lets here some other grat stories. Hey even the ones that are not quite the truth are ok to!! Put your stories up here!
Craig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Roblex
06-01-2007, 12:02 AM
There was a film made about the Geman POW who escaped from prison and nearly got away with convincing an RAF base that he was a Dutch pilot and letting him escape in a Hurricane. In the film he got as far as talking a ground engineer into starting the engine for him before someone managed to stop him. He later did escape when he was sent to a prison in Canada and jumped from the train en-route and crossed the frozen St Lawrence to the still neutral US. I don't know how accurate the film was but it is probably at least a 'dramatisation' of a real story.

As for the waterspout story. I have done that myself online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I was in a SPD being chased at wavetops and dumped my bombs and the Zeke behind got caught in the explosion.

Yellonet
06-01-2007, 01:43 AM
It's the kind of story that you want to believe... damn truth.

DuxCorvan
06-01-2007, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by Bigha_86:
By the way, don't touch the italian's girls like fisher... we are dengerous... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So you are a dangerous Italian girl? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Like Fisher? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

joeap
06-01-2007, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by super71957:
Thank you for setting this straight berg.

Sheesh,The Internet.

No, I read the story in Martin Caidin's "Flying Fortress" book, which makes it worse than the internet.

totalspoon
06-01-2007, 04:19 AM
The B17 wasn't the only allied aircraft shot down by a P38.

From the Australian Defence Force archives

CAC Boomerang CA-13 A46-136

"served with 4 Sqn; on 15/11/43 it was flying back to base when a USAAF P-38 Lightning piloted by Lt Gerald R Johnson of 9 FS (who became the 5th Air Force's 4th highest scoring ace with 22 victories) fired a burst into the port side hitting mainplane and port tailplane with the aircraft lurching to starboard and lost height finally recovering at 500ft but with the port mainplane on fire and cannon ammunition exploding it was travelling too fast to land so F/O Robert McColl Stewart (408505) lifted the a/c over the river at the strip end belly landed into scrub whereupon it burst into flames and was totally destroyed and all this happened even though it was accompanied by A46-132 and two P-40s; it was converted to components and Lt Johnson had an Australian flag painted on the nose of his P-38 along with his Japanese victories."

Totalspoon

AlGroover
06-01-2007, 04:24 AM
I'm surprised the Italians were allowed to continue flying it. Weren't the turbosuperchargers a closely guarded secret? Perhaps by '43 not so. Still, parts would have been a problem.

John_Wayne_
06-01-2007, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by super71957:
HEH,HEH
Great Story,If anyone else has one put it up here.
There is one I read,about a downed American pilot who stole a FW190.I can"t for the life of me find it again.

Here's a good one - P-51 follows a 109 under the Eifel Tower. I've seen differing views on the authenticity. I want to believe, don't you?


http://www.actionart.ca/images/Berlin%20Express%20Z1.jpg

Story here.
http://www.actionart.ca/index1e.htm

Blutarski2004
06-01-2007, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by Lodovik:
If there's ever going to be a Hollywood movie of this story, guess which version the script writers are going to use. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


..... Lemme see here. Ben Affleck as Fisher; Michael Imperioli as Rossi; Angelina Jolie as Gina.

Gotta be a blockbuster! Call my agent.

rnzoli
06-01-2007, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by totalspoon:
"[...] and Lt Johnson had an Australian flag painted on the nose of his P-38 along with his Japanese victories."


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Muwhahaha! The biggest shame that can be painted on your aircraft! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Victory signs:
enemy
enemy
enemy
friendy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif
enemy
enemy
enemy

waffen-79
06-01-2007, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by totalspoon:
"[...] and Lt Johnson had an Australian flag painted on the nose of his P-38 along with his Japanese victories."


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Muwhahaha! The biggest shame that can be painted on your aircraft! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Victory signs:
enemy
enemy
enemy
friendy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif
enemy
enemy
enemy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Daiichidoku
06-01-2007, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
So you are a dangerous Italian girl?

arent they all?
from stars n stripes, circa '44

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/starsandstripes_cartoon.jpg