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View Full Version : Impossible to live a female ancestors memories?



ydna2600
07-14-2011, 09:01 PM
Isn't it? I was thinking about this and due to the nature of the females eggs being made while still in the womb, their genetic memories will never be passed on. If my facts are right then the females will live their lives without ever 'saving' their genetic memories to another as all the eggs are made ready to order before birth. So surely that means only male ancestral genetic memories can be relived? Am I right here people?

GunnarGunderson
07-14-2011, 09:27 PM
That makes me wonder........What happens if the sperm cell that inseminates the egg was formed sometime prior to conception, That would mean Altair`s was "factory fresh" if we were able to see his memories right up until the point of conception. To answer your question I guess the same logic could be applied to the female`s eggs and ovulation

ThaWhistle
07-14-2011, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
That makes me wonder........What happens if the sperm cell that inseminates the egg was formed sometime prior to conception, That would mean Altair`s was "factory fresh" if we were able to see his memories right up until the point of conception. To answer your question I guess the same logic could be applied to the female`s eggs and ovulation

well, itd mean we'd follow altair, but not control, but don't dig too deep into the games mechanics, or youll find the man behind the curtain.

E-Zekiel
07-14-2011, 09:33 PM
Impossible? No. But I think men and women are too different for a man to feasibly take up the mantle as a woman in genetic memory or something.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be ok playing like that, it just seems implausible to me.

Calvarok
07-14-2011, 10:06 PM
Not impossible. They probably won't do it, simply because they don't want to have to bother with the fact that it would be disorienting for Desmond, but cross-gender memories can be viewed with no seriously harmful effects. Rebecca used the animus to relieve a male's memories, once. After Desmond's story is over, if they decide to make any more games, they will totally be able to have a new main character who is female.

LightRey
07-15-2011, 01:41 AM
to some of the people that replied: read the first post.
The problem lies with the females eggs being made while still in the womb, meaning that they don't actually make any new genetic material during their lifetime.
However, this does not appear to be a problem, since we can follow Fiora Cavazza in Project Legacy, which in spirit of the story uses Genetic Memory. This leads me to believe that it's not so much the DNA itself, but rather the interpretation of it that's important for passing down 'genetic memory' (epigenetics).
Either that or they made a mistake.

ydna2600
07-15-2011, 03:55 AM
It is not my intention to pick holes in the AC universe as i know that will suckify it for me. I just thought it would be a good topic for a speculative philosophic debate. I am merely interested in the discussion about the plausible genetics.
Anyhoo, if we are assuming Altiar's memories were 'hot out of the oven', then why were we able to see him finish up and jump off the tower? Perhaps genetic memory can be passed through blood transfusion as well (while in the womb I mean)? This would solve both conundrums as this would mean memories could be transfered from the mother to the child up until birth.

blazefp
07-15-2011, 04:02 AM
DNA is transmitted either you are female or male.
It's one of hose things of the chromosome X and Y. X is male's DNA and Y it's female DNA (I think) and together they create a chromosome which is something that you can find in any cell of the person/animal/plant.

I'm not 100% sure but I think this is true.

LightRey
07-15-2011, 04:15 AM
Originally posted by blazefp:
DNA is transmitted either you are female or male.
It's one of hose things of the chromosome X and Y. X is male's DNA and Y it's female DNA (I think) and together they create a chromosome which is something that you can find in any cell of the person/animal/plant.

I'm not 100% sure but I think this is true.
eh you're wrong.
the Human DNA consists of 23 chromosome pairs. 23 from the mother and 23 from the father.
If you're male, you got your father's y chromosome and if you're a girl you got his x chromosome. Women have 2 x-chromosomes, men have one x and one y chromosome.

anyways, as I said before it could simply be the interpretation of the DNA (epigenetics) that is significant to 'genetic memory'. This means that the DNA itself doesn't have to be changed in order to pass the genetic memory along.

ydna2600
07-15-2011, 04:39 AM
You're waaaay too pro with your biology knowledge for me to keep up with you haha. I don't understand what 'epigenetics' is but it totally sounds cool. Is it like the way the gentic information is read or something?

LightRey
07-15-2011, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by ydna2600:
You're waaaay too pro with your biology knowledge for me to keep up with you haha. I don't understand what 'epigenetics' is but it totally sounds cool. Is it like the way the gentic information is read or something?
yeah. For instance, some parts of the DNA can be activated or deactivated. It's a relatively new concept though.
EDIT:there are some confirmed cases of inherited epigenetic processes, but not that many. That doesn't say much though, since we really don't know that much about DNA.

iNEEDSmeINSIDES
07-15-2011, 05:51 AM
I think that Desmond's genetic memories were passed to him through his Mother. If they had come from his father he could have used the Animus himself and discovered the location of the vault etc without the need for Desmond.

blazefp
07-15-2011, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:

eh you're wrong.
the Human DNA consists of 23 chromosome pairs. 23 from the mother and 23 from the father.
If you're male, you got your father's y chromosome and if you're a girl you got his x chromosome. Women have 2 x-chromosomes, men have one x and one y chromosome.


Yeah I meant that xD


To light rey:
I'm wrong! I've always been wrong and I always will be. Also, I'm ugly and I don't have any friends!
...or I'm right....nah I'm wrong xD

LightRey
07-15-2011, 06:08 AM
Originally posted by iNEEDSmyINSIDES:
I think that Desmond's genetic memories were passed to him through his Mother. If they had come from his father he could have used the Animus himself and discovered the location of the vault etc without the need for Desmond.
That doesn't need to be true. They only found out about the vault at the end of ACII, if Desmond's parents were MIA at that point (which is likely) they'd probably only be able to get the information from Desmond. Especially if they only have one animus, which is also very likely.

EDIT:

To light rey:
I'm wrong! I've always been wrong and I always will be. Also, I'm ugly and I don't have any friends!
...or I'm right....nah I'm wrong xD
xD

GunnarGunderson
07-15-2011, 08:41 AM
For Desmond to try and relive a female ancestor's life it would probably be like trying to play a DVD in a VCR

LightRey
07-15-2011, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
For Desmond to try and relive a female ancestor's life it would probably be like trying to play a DVD in a VCR
good point. Depending on just how much Desmond's body needs to do to simulate the memories, he might not be able to create the required biochemistry.

RzaRecta357
07-15-2011, 11:11 AM
For the parents thing...

Desmonds dad is alive and well via emails. William M. Unless that isn't him.

But it sounds like he's the one that actually has Desmond now.


In the comics one of the lead assassins says Bill M. Bill is a different name for William isn't it?

LightRey
07-15-2011, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
For the parents thing...

Desmonds dad is alive and well via emails. William M. Unless that isn't him.

But it sounds like he's the one that actually has Desmond now.


In the comics one of the lead assassins says Bill M. Bill is a different name for William isn't it?
yeah I'm pretty sure it is.
I also think it's quite probable that William M. is indeed Desmond's father or at least a close relative. first of all because his last name starts with an M, which could therefore be for 'Miles' as in Desmond Miles, but also because he appears to know Desmond to some extent if you listen to the things he says.

SweetsMachineGun
07-15-2011, 04:40 PM
I definitely think it would work! DNA is passed to both sexes, after all. I don't think it's a good idea, however. With the bleeding effect it might cause gender identity disorders.

ydna2600
07-16-2011, 12:55 AM
Hey yeah! I was wondering about that William guy thats a sensible theory.

orionsrise
07-18-2011, 08:53 AM
To thread starter. Good point. it's been bothering me too. But a little research has netted me this possible work around for the publishers. Although formed from birth, the genetic sequences are not set in stone so to speak. Enviroment, stress, diet, drug abuse, ect. can all determine the actual D.N.A. makup of individual eggs post womb. Now this research was conducted on rats and is in early stages but just like men women's actions can produce change in genetic sequences. Hope that helps you

FiskMunk
07-18-2011, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by sharkbot:
I definitely think it would work! DNA is passed to both sexes, after all. I don't think it's a good idea, however. With the bleeding effect it might cause gender identity disorders.

...Hah http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Now that would be awesome, Desmond suddenly turning transexual.

dchil279
07-18-2011, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:

eh you're wrong.
the Human DNA consists of 23 chromosome pairs. 23 from the mother and 23 from the father.
If you're male, you got your father's y chromosome and if you're a girl you got his x chromosome. Women have 2 x-chromosomes, men have one x and one y chromosome.


Yeah I meant that xD </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even if that's what you meant that has nothing to do with the discussion. You just repeated what I learned on the first day of 7th grade.

Please read the OP to understand what this discussion is about.

iN3krO
07-18-2011, 10:42 AM
<span class="ev_code_RED">Your Language is completely inappropriate. These are all ages Forums.</span>

blazefp
07-18-2011, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by dchil279:
Even if that's what you meant that has nothing to do with the discussion. You just repeated what I learned on the first day of 7th grade.

Please read the OP to understand what this discussion is about.

Actually it does have to do with the discussion. I was trying to explain why it's possible for Desmond to live a female ancestor's memory.

LightRey
07-18-2011, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by daniel_gervide:
<span class="ev_code_RED">Your Language is completely inappropriate. These are all ages Forums.</span>
They can't because that's how it works. A woman ovulates (releases an egg to be fertilized by a sperm) about every month. If it isn't fertilized it dies soon after. When a woman is (almost) out of eggs she goes through menopause and after that that's it, no more kiddies.

ydna2600
07-18-2011, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by orionsrise:
To thread starter. Good point. it's been bothering me too. But a little research has netted me this possible work around for the publishers. Although formed from birth, the genetic sequences are not set in stone so to speak. Enviroment, stress, diet, drug abuse, ect. can all determine the actual D.N.A. makup of individual eggs post womb. Now this research was conducted on rats and is in early stages but just like men women's actions can produce change in genetic sequences. Hope that helps you

Interesting. That allows for memories to be saved 'genetically' in both genders which is the whole premise of the AC genetic memory thing. But unless you are suggesting that the fragments of DNA stored in the eggs can change during the course of the females life, how would the child inherit the mothers memories? I mean once the eggs are created, can their genetic information be changed? If it can then problem solved and Dessy can go be a tranny. (I hope the next ancestor isn't a chick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif )

LightRey
07-18-2011, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by ydna2600:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by orionsrise:
To thread starter. Good point. it's been bothering me too. But a little research has netted me this possible work around for the publishers. Although formed from birth, the genetic sequences are not set in stone so to speak. Enviroment, stress, diet, drug abuse, ect. can all determine the actual D.N.A. makup of individual eggs post womb. Now this research was conducted on rats and is in early stages but just like men women's actions can produce change in genetic sequences. Hope that helps you

Interesting. That allows for memories to be saved 'genetically' in both genders which is the whole premise of the AC genetic memory thing. But unless you are suggesting that the fragments of DNA stored in the eggs can change during the course of the females life, how would the child inherit the mothers memories? I mean once the eggs are created, can their genetic information be changed? If it can then problem solved and Dessy can go be a tranny. (I hope the next ancestor isn't a chick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Me neither. The last thing I'd want to see is Desmond wearing a bikini because of the bleeding effect.

SweetsMachineGun
07-18-2011, 07:30 PM
Interesting. That allows for memories to be saved 'genetically' in both genders which is the whole premise of the AC genetic memory thing. But unless you are suggesting that the fragments of DNA stored in the eggs can change during the course of the females life, how would the child inherit the mothers memories? I mean once the eggs are created, can their genetic information be changed? If it can then problem solved and Dessy can go be a tranny. (I hope the next ancestor isn't a chick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif )

LMAO are you implying the genetic memories are stored in the sperm? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif It's a fantastical concept as it is, man. I wouldn't worry about the likelihood of it being stored in an egg vs. a sperm.

I really don't think the DNA memories aren't restricted to Males. I don't want Desmond's ancestor to be female for the same reason as you, still. (Though I would love the chance to play as a female Assassin through another character)

ydna2600
07-19-2011, 12:02 AM
LMAO are you implying the genetic memories are stored in the sperm? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif It's a fantastical concept as it is, man. I wouldn't worry about the likelihood of it being stored in an egg vs. a sperm.

I really don't think the DNA memories aren't restricted to Males. I don't want Desmond's ancestor to be female for the same reason as you, still. (Though I would love the chance to play as a female Assassin through another character)

Yeah man I'm not worried if it isn't possible. We're just philosoraptor-ing. (at least I am)

LightRey
07-19-2011, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by sharkbot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Interesting. That allows for memories to be saved 'genetically' in both genders which is the whole premise of the AC genetic memory thing. But unless you are suggesting that the fragments of DNA stored in the eggs can change during the course of the females life, how would the child inherit the mothers memories? I mean once the eggs are created, can their genetic information be changed? If it can then problem solved and Dessy can go be a tranny. (I hope the next ancestor isn't a chick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif )

LMAO are you implying the genetic memories are stored in the sperm? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif It's a fantastical concept as it is, man. I wouldn't worry about the likelihood of it being stored in an egg vs. a sperm.

I really don't think the DNA memories aren't restricted to Males. I don't want Desmond's ancestor to be female for the same reason as you, still. (Though I would love the chance to play as a female Assassin through another character) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Dude of course it's stored in sperm. Where do you think your genes come from?

Kramerisgamer
07-20-2011, 10:23 AM
Didn't Rebecca say (if you ask her) that she relived memories of her mercenary relative who was a man? So you can relive memories from the opposite sex.

LightRey
07-20-2011, 11:01 AM
Originally posted by Kramerisgamer:
Didn't Rebecca say (if you ask her) that she relived memories of her mercenary relative who was a man? So you can relive memories from the opposite sex.
that's true. So that at least eliminates that barrier.

ydna2600
07-20-2011, 03:58 PM
If you mean the psych barrier, then I will have to disagree as Rebecca is a bit of a man herself.

LightRey
07-20-2011, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by ydna2600:
If you mean the psych barrier, then I will have to disagree as Rebecca is a bit of a man herself.
well I was referring more to the difference in the body's biochemistry (hormone's 'n stuff). It technically has to do with psych stuff, but it's not something you can get rid of as a woman just by acting manly.

ydna2600
07-24-2011, 12:05 AM
Ha I was mostly joking. And yet you still make a good point.