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View Full Version : the la5fn is a lame plane to pilot imho



raaaid
07-24-2006, 04:24 AM
yesterday i noticed you can pull full deflection to the joystick without stalling just with some right rudder imput

i feel playing arcade when i can pull full joystick deflection without stalling

raaaid
07-24-2006, 04:24 AM
yesterday i noticed you can pull full deflection to the joystick without stalling just with some right rudder imput

i feel playing arcade when i can pull full joystick deflection without stalling

alert_1
07-24-2006, 04:59 AM
this game is not for you raaaid, seriously http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

JG52Karaya-X
07-24-2006, 05:02 AM
I begin to sense the deeper philosophical meaning of this thread http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

F19_Olli72
07-24-2006, 05:08 AM
Did you know that The click beetle (Athous haemorrhoidalis) produces 400 G in a "jack-knife" movement of the creature's body. This also generates lift and the record-breaking G-force.

Now this thread will not be totally useless after all since it contains facts. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Friendly_flyer
07-24-2006, 05:17 AM
Doens't the La-5FN have slats?

WOLFMondo
07-24-2006, 05:18 AM
La5FN breaks apart in a 450mph dive. There for its a lame plane for that reason only.

WWMaxGunz
07-24-2006, 05:19 AM
Relative stick movement means little, how much result in G's or turn did it get you?

Abbuzze
07-24-2006, 05:57 AM
It´s pity that he is right, even with full elevator trim up it is not possible to stall the FN... Noticed this some thime before, but ...
Searched a bit and found the data- here is a chart.

Take a look at the very smooth turning radius and turn time. They are nearly a flatline. This is only possible if you are able to hold the stick in a position without any tightening of radius or buffeting. For the LA5FN this stick position is maximum deflection http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Spitfire turns are much more "waving".


Enjoy it!

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4488/la5fn405turnbj2.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=la5fn405turnbj2.jpg)

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-24-2006, 06:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abbuzze:
...it is not possible to stall the FN... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Obviously a misunderstanding on the physics of a stall. Every aircraft in this sim can stall...period.


TB

Abbuzze
07-24-2006, 07:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abbuzze:
...it is not possible to stall the FN... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Obviously a misunderstanding on the physics of a stall. Every aircraft in this sim can stall...period.


TB </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Theoreticaly yes. So how do you call the unabiltiy to loose lift at 50m altitude with max trim and stick pulled to the maximium at a LA5FN?

Maybe the LA5FN had not enough elevator range to stall this plane at low speed in a 90-80 degree bank at 2.3g and a 170m turning radius at 225km/h TAS.
Then it would be the first plane with this charecteristic I ever heard.

Any source to proof this? I ask this seriously!

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-24-2006, 07:09 AM
Not here (and I was just jibing at you btw). The flight characteristics, especially at slow speeds, are the sort of thing that makes you say...hmmmm.

At higher speeds, it has enough elevator degradation to neutralize some of those characteristics...only a bit though.


TB

carguy_
07-24-2006, 08:04 AM
La5FN has a monster engine.Feels like a Dodge Charger with 500hp.
Has certain advantages over `43 LW planes but generally German stuff is ***ked in that period.

Jaws2002
07-24-2006, 10:03 AM
OMG!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


RAAID IS SAVED.!!!!!

He found a way back from the dream land. He is finally talking about real things like a mortal. OMG http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Welcome back brother. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

DuxCorvan
07-24-2006, 12:00 PM
Looks like someone was a good boy and took his pills. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

BTW, Thunderbolt said "period"... period. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

WWMaxGunz
07-24-2006, 12:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abbuzze:
Maybe the LA5FN had not enough elevator range to stall this plane at low speed in a 90-80 degree bank at 2.3g and a 170m turning radius at 225km/h TAS.
Then it would be the first plane with this charecteristic I ever heard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That plane should be able to pull about 3 G's sustained turn.

And 80 degree bank gives less than 10% of G's pulled to keeping alt so I guess that is one
heck of a descending spiral which would have to be done --- in a stall or at low power, take
your pick.

The rest of your numbers without the high bank but in a flat turn would indicate a plane
flying stalled but holding itself up by power. Finnish pilots were able to hold the 109G
in level flight at ridiculous low speed and nose at about 30 degrees with full power.
That is back side of the level flight power curve flying. So why not an La5FN running
faster and able to turn as well? Probably a lot of slip in that turn too.

Haigotron
07-24-2006, 12:43 PM
Lavochkin must be spinning in his grave from all this...

Xiolablu3
07-24-2006, 12:57 PM
The La5FN is a 1944 plane in the sim, not a 1943.

The La5FN the Germans tested from 1943 did only 520kph on the deck. The one in game does 590.

The contemporary Fw190A should be faster than its corresponding La5FN, but in game only the A8 is close to the SAME speed.

The La5FN therefore has better speed AND turing than the FW190A in game. I find this match up incredibly hard if I am in a Anton.

Abbuzze
07-24-2006, 04:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abbuzze:
Maybe the LA5FN had not enough elevator range to stall this plane at low speed in a 90-80 degree bank at 2.3g and a 170m turning radius at 225km/h TAS.
Then it would be the first plane with this charecteristic I ever heard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That plane should be able to pull about 3 G's sustained turn.

And 80 degree bank gives less than 10% of G's pulled to keeping alt so I guess that is one
heck of a descending spiral which would have to be done --- in a stall or at low power, take
your pick.

The rest of your numbers without the high bank but in a flat turn would indicate a plane
flying stalled but holding itself up by power. Finnish pilots were able to hold the 109G
in level flight at ridiculous low speed and nose at about 30 degrees with full power.
That is back side of the level flight power curve flying. So why not an La5FN running
faster and able to turn as well? Probably a lot of slip in that turn too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello,

first did you take a look at the chart I posted? The altitude was between 25-75m so no downwardspiral. BBB_Hyperion analysed a trk file. Bank was 75 degree but with a yo-yo effect in flight. And you are right there was surely a lot of slip.

Did some more test from 400km/h banking and pulling max. deflection - no stall. So maybe the LA5FN was optimised for highspeed turning. I don´t know.

For the 3g you mentioned, the numbers mentioned by me are not in opposition with this!
I think this 3g are linked to around 18 seconds for a 360 degree turn. This two figures are enough to calculate the theoretical radius and speed of the plane. Theoretical because also in this tests a 90 deg bank was surly not possible. So there was still a part of gravity at this.


a=3*9,81m/s^2 T=18s
------------------------
a=w^2*r =&gt; r=a/w^2 with w=2*3,14/T
Radius: r=3*9,81/(2*3,14/18)^2 = 241,53m

v=2*3,14*r/T
Speed: 84,31 m/s^2 = 303km/h

So the figures for 3g and 18sec are a radius of 242m at a TAS of 303km/h - that seems ok for me.


My simply question is, had the LA5FN such a "low" effective elevator that you could pull the stick complete back at 75deg bank, and your engine was strong enough to hold your plane in the air?

BBB_Hyperion
07-24-2006, 10:12 PM
Check the other thread Abbuzze posted elevator range there.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9841028564

alert_1
07-25-2006, 04:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The La5FN the Germans tested from 1943 did only 520kph on the deck. The one in game does 590. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The La5FN tested in Rechlin ahd ASh82FN with 1850hp, so it looks like full fledged La5FN "Late"...

mynameisroland
07-25-2006, 06:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The La5FN is a 1944 plane in the sim, not a 1943.

The La5FN the Germans tested from 1943 did only 520kph on the deck. The one in game does 590.

The contemporary Fw190A should be faster than its corresponding La5FN, but in game only the A8 is close to the SAME speed.

The La5FN therefore has better speed AND turing than the FW190A in game. I find this match up incredibly hard if I am in a Anton. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cut my teeth on this very plane match up mate, It makes you really appreciate the firepower advantage the Fw 190 has and its excellent roll. Apart from those two aspects you are pretty much always at a disadvantage in pure performance terms. The moment I arrived in this particular scenario was about 18 months ago was entering a low alt - under 1000m - fight against 3 La5 FNs that were picking on a lone Bf 109. Flying an A6 on the Balta or Balaton? map on UKD1, I shot all three of them down 2 of them in frontal aspect deflection shots and the third catching him with his pants down after he had blacked out. I kept the manuvers fast in turns never dropped below 400km/h and made sure that I hit the La5s first oppertunity I got to degrade their performance.

Another nightmare matchup Xiola that thankfully isnt present anymore was a Eastern Front map which had La5 FN vs Fw 190 A4 or F8. On this set up you are truely screwed without heavy teamplay on the Blue side.

Xiolablu3
07-25-2006, 03:37 PM
I will have to wing with you and try and pick up some tips on these maps Boemher.

If I can get above an La5FN in a FW190A6, I often take 2 yoyo attacks and then if I havent got him, he is often getting the advantage thanks to his turn. If this is happening then I dive for the deck and run back towards base/friendlies, using my superior dive to get away. You get a good headstart becasue of his low disintigration speed, which often means you can find a teamate before he catches.

They would be historical tactics (the Germans used exactly this approach) if the La5FN could not catch me when I run, unfortunatley its just a matter of time thanks to the La5FN's speed in the game, and if I dont find teamates or friendly flak, then I start to get worried at the thought of dogfighting a better turner who is also faster (nightmare) :P


See you on UK2 soon, I have been playing a few other games recently (Prey, Rome, and an oldie called Alien Aftermath) and taking a break, but I am preparing to feed my addiction again very soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif