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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 08:52 AM
I'm sure many people have had trouble taking down LA-7s. So I wanted to start this post so people can add their tactics on decreasing their ever increasing population. In my opinion it is too powerful of a plane but i won't get into that.

My way of taking LAs down has usually been getting at a high altitude around 2000-3000 meters. The LA will of course climb up and get on your tail easily. Let him get within 200-300 meters. Then dive straight down to the deck. Now I suggest you get into a FW 190 so you can pull out of it. At high speed the LA won't be able to pull out and will smack into the ground. Not exactly honorable but it gets the job done.

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 08:52 AM
I'm sure many people have had trouble taking down LA-7s. So I wanted to start this post so people can add their tactics on decreasing their ever increasing population. In my opinion it is too powerful of a plane but i won't get into that.

My way of taking LAs down has usually been getting at a high altitude around 2000-3000 meters. The LA will of course climb up and get on your tail easily. Let him get within 200-300 meters. Then dive straight down to the deck. Now I suggest you get into a FW 190 so you can pull out of it. At high speed the LA won't be able to pull out and will smack into the ground. Not exactly honorable but it gets the job done.

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 09:23 AM
get up to 6000 meters and then fight. or take a dora or k4 which can both dictate the fight and force an LA7 down into the dirt. the a9 needs altitude advantage or a wingman against equally flown la7. or a lucky deflection as he flys by to get on your six. LA7s are no threat against doras and k4s as i said. zero threat. and on the deck the hurricane will kill an la7 that chooses to turn fight with it. but going to 2000 to 3000 meters is not gonna help you at all. its way too low. and diving to rip the wings off the la7 is useless too cuz that will only catch a total noob flying the la7.

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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 11:54 AM
Take em up then take em down or take em up then down and let em rest in pieces or take em down then up and then take em down.

Hope i got all variants .)

Regards,
Hyperion

T_O_A_D
10-29-2003, 12:04 PM
BBB_Hyperion wrote:
- Take em up then take em down or take em up then down
- and let em rest in pieces or take em down then up
- and then take em down.
-
- Hope i got all variants .)



LOL
Sounds like the Hokey Pokey
You put your left foot in, you pull you left foot out, you do the hokey pokey and you do the turn about.

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The moral: when you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut!</font>
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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:23 PM
It works with not very experienced La7 pilots. And even then, you don't get credit for the kill http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

It doesn't work with the AI though as the Ai planes seem to have no dive speed limit.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:24 PM
Where did you get that the D9 dictates the fight against a La7? In game the La7 is faster and has a much better climbrate. So how exactly do you proposed to dictate the fight except at high alt?

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:29 PM
DnnC wrote:
- I'm sure many people have had trouble taking down
- LA-7s. So I wanted to start this post so people can
- add their tactics on decreasing their ever
- increasing population. In my opinion it is too
- powerful of a plane but i won't get into that.
-
- My way of taking LAs down has usually been getting
- at a high altitude around 2000-3000 meters. The LA
- will of course climb up and get on your tail easily.
- Let him get within 200-300 meters. Then dive
- straight down to the deck. Now I suggest you get
- into a FW 190 so you can pull out of it. At high
- speed the LA won't be able to pull out and will
- smack into the ground. Not exactly honorable but it
- gets the job done.
-
-

Also known as Split-S.. unfortunalety LA-drivers know this trick, atleast the experienced ones.. and dont go for the trick much anymore.. I remember when 1.1B came out and I used to do it every time and every time LA-drivers crashed to ground /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif SO your best choise is to go to altitudes above 3000, where LA looses lot of percomance.. and you can now actually outclimb it with late 109s and Doras.. If you are below 3km, LA will catch you.



____________________________________



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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:48 PM
nicolas10 wrote:
- Where did you get that the D9 dictates the fight
- against a La7? In game the La7 is faster and has a
- much better climbrate. So how exactly do you
- proposed to dictate the fight except at high alt?
-
- Nic
Properly flown the 190 D9 outrun and out climb an La7 like Speedy Gonzalez outrun Silvester the cat... correct use of CEM

English is not my natural language, sorry for any spelling mistake.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:59 PM
against the AI this trick will never work.
they dive with you up to 800-900kph, without suffering any damage. i laughed my *** off when i tried this...

best thing is to catch the la7 at high altitude, but thats hard because internet doghfights are most likely not above 2000m. and its easier to flee downwards for the la7 as for you to flee upwards with your aircraft.

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 01:11 PM
all this talk about D9 and K4 taking down La7 at high alt
is of no use because online there are not much fights above 3K and whom is saying the La7 will follow you
above that hight and even then it will already outclimbed you when you got there

i can tell im a fulltime A9/D9 flyer
just use a big alt advantage and u will be fine


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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 01:47 PM
Hi

BBB_Hyperion wrote:
- Take em up then take em down or take em up then down
- and let em rest in pieces or take em down then up
- and then take em down.
-
- Hope i got all variants .)
-
- Regards,
- Hyperion
-
-Well if I'm flying the La7 I remember Hyperion just shooting my tail off!

MB

-
-
-
-
-

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 02:11 PM
AFJ-Skyghost wrote:
- Properly flown the 190 D9 outrun and out climb an
- La7 like Speedy Gonzalez outrun Silvester the cat...
- correct use of CEM
-
- English is not my natural language, sorry for any
- spelling mistake.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

The surely you mean incorrect use of CEM, since it's supposed to be automatic.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 03:04 PM
The LA7 destroys any plane in this game below 3000m. Be sure.

No plane holds the E that it does and it can be made to dance with Hurris, I-16s and I-153s. With the little birds, as soon as you lose your advantage, you just run a bit and get above them easily enough.

The only advantage the K4 or Dora have is dive speed. However, the LA7 will catch them in the zoom climb and the smart LA pilots know that the K4 or Dora pilot going 710+ is easily avoided on the B and Z and can be turned on rather quickly.

Whether intended or not, the LA7 is hands-down the best plane in this game and I prove it every night against any and all LW fighters and other VVS fighters, Yak3, P39...etc.

Of course, everybody makes mistakes and gets shot down. However, in an error-free engagement, the LA7 will beat the Yak3, P39 any variant and all LW birds, with equally-skilled pilots. That is a fact and only the ultimate best LW pilots have any chance of beating an LA7 properly flown.

I laugh at K4s, Doras and A9s when I see them coming online. I lmao when someone tries to use a slow-***, easily-damaged Hurricane to take down an LA7 and when I see the little birds, I just frustrate them with hit and run tactics./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 03:15 PM
LA-7's are tricky ones but with the right tactics in a Dora or a K-4 and you've got em nailed. You should start with altitude advantage with the Dora thats for certain if you've got it you've got a massive E advantage over the LA-7. Watch as he tries to manuver out of the way, thats all well and fun so if he does abort your attack and head back up into the clouds. Keep doing it till he makes a mistake, OR, he builds up so much speed that your FW's control authority is now better than his. At this point you proceed to blast him apart.

LA-7's and P-39's are the toughest opponents online in many cases but it depends on how they are flown. A LA-7 driver who follows you into a dive probably doesn't know much about his plane. A P-39 pilot who trys to snap a roll too hard will find himself stalled out and an easy target for your guns.

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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 03:24 PM
I'm sensing it's time to revive my "Lavochkin Performance Series" 1 vs 1 server.

Before FB, I used to run a 1 vs 1 server, where I flew the LA5FN exclusively against all planes. After about 55 opponents in just about every plane, the LA5FN was totally dominant against some of the big names in IL2, at the time.

I guess I should start that up again. I kept track of all kills and deaths against each opponent by name and plane type. If I recall correctly, my total was about 140+ kills to 7 deaths (three due to blackout crash). Some big names stopped by, but I see no need to go into that./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Any flyers interested in showing me which plane/skills they feel will beat an LA7, just stop by when you see the server. I'll start it up by the weekend on HyperLobby. You could become famous or you may just become another part of my statistics./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 03:34 PM
Yep time to put your actions where your mouth is /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'll gladly watch.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 03:35 PM
La7 is a tough opponent. It doesn't roll very well and it will disintegrate in a fast 650+ km/h IAS dive. It will outclimb pretty much everything and turn with the best but it's still a heavy plane due to its construction and has its limits. Late Yaks, BF-109G2s, other LAs and P39s are its worst enemies I'd say... Plane like Chaika might also catch a La7 slow and low.

I've been flying He111 lately. Flying at 3-6 km is pretty safe. Use the bombsight and try to destroy something on their airfield... Cool plane.

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 03:40 PM
nicolas10 wrote:
- Yep time to put your actions where your mouth is
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
- I'll gladly watch.
-
- Nic

I'll have to see if I can muster a quick server tonight. I just have to finish fixing a friend's PC first, but that shouldn't take much longer.

I'm hoping some of the big names of the past stop by. I'm on a quest./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 04:10 PM
Crap tonight I'll be in some Sub Command games. I'll check for the results tomorrow hehe.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 04:24 PM
Well, I generally don't publicize results by name, but I have no problems with anyone mentioning my name, if they win./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 04:49 PM
I don't care about the names. Just the scores will be nice. Anyway some of em will be untouchable so how could they loose http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Nic

Buzz_25th
10-29-2003, 05:12 PM
Slick,

Are you the only one who can pick the La7?

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 06:03 PM
Hehe. In IL2 when some La-n00b would come on the greater green server (it was all planes) and killed me (Hulk no like angry!) I'd have to morph into Sir Uber also. Of course, slapping down two La5fn's against my single one was usually how it worked. When the laws of physics go out the window, then you really gotta know how to TnB manuever. *rolls eyes*

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 06:16 PM
RedDeth wrote:
- get up to 6000 meters and then fight. or take a dora
- or k4 which can both dictate the fight and force an
- LA7 down into the dirt. the a9 needs altitude
- advantage or a wingman against equally flown la7. or
- a lucky deflection as he flys by to get on your six.
- LA7s are no threat against doras and k4s as i said.
- zero threat. and on the deck the hurricane will kill
- an la7 that chooses to turn fight with it. but going
- to 2000 to 3000 meters is not gonna help you at all.
- its way too low. and diving to rip the wings off the
- la7 is useless too cuz that will only catch a total
- noob flying the la7.
-


The only way you will knock me out of the sky flying a La7 with a FW is with a wingmen... BTW I have killed pletty of FW's 5000 meters up and higher... All depends on the La7 driver dont it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif As I see it, FW like to run alot. And I mean ALOT Keep running FW's.. Us La's are coming for ya



Message Edited on 10/29/0312:20PM by The_Wood

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 06:21 PM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- Slick,
-
- Are you the only one who can pick the La7?
-
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- 25th_Buzz


No, all planes are available on the other side. I only limit my side to just the LA7 for this series.

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

Message Edited on 10/29/0312:22PM by SlickStick

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 06:25 PM
nicolas10 wrote:
- I don't care about the names. Just the scores will
- be nice. Anyway some of em will be untouchable so
- how could they loose /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- Nic

Nic, with my tight max lag settings and complete knowledge of lag and warp in this game, they will all be touchable./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I've got it down to being immediately able to detect when they can be damaged and when they are "intangible" and I just wait a few more secs and nail'em when they come back from their little time warp./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 06:40 PM
If I see an La-7 and Im alone in my 109 (any) I run like hell lol.
If I have altittude then maybe, maybe I take a pot shot and try an escape, normally they just catch you though.

To effectively deal with them in this game you really need a wingman. At least at my skill level.
I flew one the other day for fun, could almost not even get it to spin. Sorta uber plane at the moment.
The kewl thing is that when you actualy do shoot one (La-7) down in 1 on 1 combat (and you are in a 109G2 or G6) online then you really know for a fact that you have outflown the other guy completely.
hehe

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 07:06 PM
Nero111 wrote: "The kewl thing is that when you actualy do shoot one (La-7) down in 1 on 1 combat (and you are in a 109G2 or G6) online then you really know for a fact that you have outflown the other guy completely. hehe"

Hehe, copy that. Or the LA7 pilot made a mistake and stalled or something. G2's have a tight turn, but in a sustained turn, the G2 is a flaming wreck against an LA7./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I fly the plane that gives me the best chance to win. Against anything other than another Ace LA7 pilot, I will use a P39, Yak3, LA5FN or even a FW-A9 to get the job done. It's all about rock, paper, scissors.

The Lavochkin Performance Series does rely on one thing besides the machine, the man at the controls needed to make her dance like she's capable. I can assure you it is most certainly the man and not the machine./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 07:36 PM
After quite some time of not touching em I took a LA-5FN up the other night. Was able to take down 3 LWer's in a 3 minute span before being shot down as I was running for home due to small fuel leak good fun but limited to certain tactics. I'm not to fond of the LA-7's because of their sensitive tail feathers and low dive speed.

In QMB I've been able to take down LA-7's on AI ace flying P-39's, P-40's, Yak1 and G2's with a 70% success rate. When starting off at equal alt the key is to survive the merge and make sure he does not have the op to extend to set up for another head on. Whenever I use a Yak-3 I spend to much time at the edge of black out.

Online they are just another foe. I avoid most turn fights if I can. I go for the sneak up and grab you approach so LA-7 uberness is not a problem. Just give me a plane with dive speed and and some alt. I actually prefer a p-39(great visibility, small profile, big gun) for LA hunting because she dives so nice compared to the LA series. Next up is any of the 190's let all those cannons loose bye bye LA-7

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 07:52 PM
Good points, Paul.

No doubt the way to take out an LA7 is to use speed, altitude and big cannons. Above all else, patience is the number one thing needed to down an LA7. One small mistake and the LA7 is on you like white on rice./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It takes a little time, but great marksmanship can win the day against the LA7, if you're using hit and run or B and Z tactics.

The main thing is to run up, not run flat to try and escape the LA7. The smart LW pilot gets high and cuts off the dive about halfway down, to lure the LA7 into climbing to the fight and hopefully into a stall. Repeat as necessary. Then, when they are at minimum E, complete the swoop and blast the almost motionless LA7 below./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 07:53 PM
Ooh, this new series is going to be, as the Beach Boys would say, "Fun, fun, fun til daddy takes the LA7 away."

hehe /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 07:58 PM
its not chemistry and the La's are pretty flimsy A/C one burst should disable rudders no matter what side you shoot at it from..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 08:00 PM
Providing of course, you get the chance to land a blast./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 08:20 PM
I've read this whole thread and Paul and Death have hit the nail on the head. The La7's tail is its "glass jaw". I can fly the h3ll out of an La7 (though I don't fly them much anymore) and usually when I got killed was shortly after my elevators were disabled. Everything else was running strong and virtually untouched.

Bloody weak elevators...

I know, I know "just don't get shot in the tail" right?




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Buzz_25th
10-29-2003, 08:40 PM
An experienced La7 pilot is as tough an opponant as your going to get. I don't care what else your flying, except maybe a 262.

Most of the tactics described in this thread or any other for that matter to beat a La7. Will work only against unexperienced pilots. Which in the case of La7's. There are a lot of them.

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25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 06:43 AM
Buzz_25th wrote:
- An experienced La7 pilot is as tough an opponant as
- your going to get. I don't care what else your
- flying, except maybe a 262.
-
- Most of the tactics described in this thread or any
- other for that matter to beat a La7. Will work only
- against unexperienced pilots. Which in the case of
- La7's. There are a lot of them.
-
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dont know when a df(1 vs 1) can last 40 minutes and La7 and Dora44 try to make no faults these Planes are Pretty much equal (no one can archieve advantage except when the fw is bounced but thats the same for la7 bounced) but the one that takes more patience and thinking is the fw. You can down 4+ planes under a minute in a Furball with a la7 but in the same time you are lucky when you down 1 Plane with a FW(Dora) what does this tell us. Same for P39 use bank roll and turn combined you can outturn most lw planes and get on their Tail in ZoomClimb a Energie Miracle. The optimistic FMs will hopefully get fixed else a Zero with a remarkable turntime would have trouble vs La7 in turn.

Getting most kills is not equal to good flying.

Here are some Datas on La7 for your Entertainment
(Special Compare Turntimes)
http://www.btinternet.com/~fulltilt/Perform.html

Regards,
Hyperion

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 10:35 AM
P-47 takes down LA-7s with ease if flown right. Look me up sometime and I will be more then happy to show ya/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
S~

http://www.angelfire.com/ab4/airplanes/P47_Thunderbolt/P47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 10:45 AM
VMF-214_HaVoK wrote:
- P-47 takes down a poorly flown LA-7s with ease if flown right. Look
- me up sometime and I will be more then happy to show
- ya

I fixed it for you.

The if flown right comment is quite silly. I have been shot down in my Dora by Hurricanes because I flew like sh*t. Doesn't mean the hurri is better.

Nic

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:41 AM
While people are talking about LA-7s, I was wondering which armament others tend to go for, the 2 or 3 20mm...

Just curious really

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 12:58 PM
VMF-214_HaVoK wrote:
- P-47 takes down LA-7s with ease if flown right. Look
- me up sometime and I will be more then happy to show
- ya

No need, Havok. I've already seen your P47 work. Very good, you get good height, use your energy well, but unfortunately, I'm one of those LA7 pilots on the list of ones you know you can't beat. And I'm sure there are a few.

Any LA7 pilot that gets shot down by a P47 in a one on one engagement is, um, a bit weak in the skills. Be Sure./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

joeshmoe wrote: "While people are talking about LA-7s, I was wondering which armament others tend to go for, the 2 or 3 20mm..."

I prefer the 2 cannon version. Slightly less top speed before bits start falling off than 3xB20 version, but better turning and more ammo, by about 5 secs of trigger squeeze time. The 3xB20 is great for B and Z and attacking bombers or taking down P47s even, lol./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Got wrapped up with too much stuff last night, but I will be starting up the series for sure. Watch for it. I need pilots like Havok who have great confidence in certain birds beating the LA7, to round out the performance series and give me the largest cross-section of data.

Most encounters in the past usually start out with the opponenent in another plane, but they always end up trying to beat me in an LA7, eventually, hehe./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 01:23 PM
if slickstick takes the LA-7 up in his 1v1 hes gunna get owned by just about any Zero pilot

eventually hes going to have to come in close to try & get a kill ....

then its going to be bye bye LA

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 02:30 PM
who cares. I make it a point to vulch LA-7's on the runway. The FM is total BS. It has zero weaknesses. I'm hoping the arrival of the P-38 and Ki-84 do something to reduce the LA-7 zerg. The best plane for killing LA-7's is the PE-8. Do slow S-turns til you get a pilot or engine kill.

The LA-7 is the dweebest of all dweeb planes in the history of flight sims. Try to find some old Warbirds or Air Warrior sites for the definition of what a dweeb plane is.

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 02:45 PM
viperUSAF wrote:
- It has zero weaknesses.

Apart from the weak tail, the fact that the plane falls apart in a dive and that it's performance at altitude leaves a lot to be desired.

There's no doubting it's a formidible plane, but zero weaknesses isn't the case.

It's biggest weakness is usually me in the pilot's chair though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 03:20 PM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
- if slickstick takes the LA-7 up in his 1v1 hes gunna
- get owned by just about any Zero pilot
-
- eventually hes going to have to come in close to try
- & get a kill ....
-
- then its going to be bye bye LA
-

Ah, but only time will tell if that is the case, since we don't have these birds yet. I'm looking forward to flying in and against the Ki84. It looks like a good matchup for the LA7.

The P38 will not be any kind of gamebreaker against the LA7. It's not fast enough, nor maneuverable enough. Historically speaking, not gamespeaking, yet./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

viperUSAF wrote: "The LA-7 is the dweebest of all dweeb planes in the history of flight sims.

LOL, that's what all the people who can't fly one to the same level of success or down one says. They said the same thing about the Spitfire in Jane's WWII or the Hawker in CFS. Sure the LA7 is the top plane in the sim at this time, but based on historical data, shouldn't it BE pretty close to the top plane in the game?

I don't pay any attention to what people think of the LA7 and it's performance, because being one of the very best in an LA7 has to count for something./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm looking forward to some of the nay sayer names in this thread appearing on my server. Come one, come all.

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Zayets
10-30-2003, 03:31 PM
If I will have time I will come tonight with my jug.I don't know what a hell is this dogfight,but one should start once , eh? Who knows , maybe I have some fighter pilot blood (although I really doubt!Who's gonna vulch da bases /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ).

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 03:38 PM
Slick,

I'd love to participate in this flying a D9. What does one have to do to be involved with this?

TX-Zen
Black 6
TX Squadron CO
http://www.txsquadron.com
clyndes@hotmail.com (IM only)


http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/tx-zen/Zensig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 03:57 PM
TX-Zen wrote:
- Slick,
-
- I'd love to participate in this flying a D9. What
- does one have to do to be involved with this?
-
- TX-Zen
- Black 6
- TX Squadron CO

Nothing special, just show up when you see the server on HyperLobby and fly any plane you wish. The only stats recorded anywhere are only my personal ones for Lavochkin Performance measurement and scaling of the awesome capabilities of this plane./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

ZG77_Nagual
10-30-2003, 04:05 PM
I have very little trouble with these in the a9 as long as I've some air under me.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 04:46 PM
Excellent, Nagual. I hope to see your A9 in the series in the future. The more models the better the data./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

ZG77_Nagual
10-30-2003, 05:11 PM
LOL - didn't mean to sound like I allways win- and - as buzz pointed out - the la7 is one of the more sloppily flown birds - obviously with a good pilot at the controls - 1v1 - it is an amazing dogfighter. The 190s do have some advantages however - particularly at higher speeds.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 05:24 PM
Yes, higher dive speed and awesome roll. That's why it's better for the LA7 to get the A9 as slow as possible, so that the LA7's quicker roll at slower speeds can be used properly.

Of course, I also only made mention because I've flown you a couple of times on the ZG77th server and I remember a good fight./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 05:30 PM
if i cba ill take u on in a p11 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 06:05 PM
p1ngu666 wrote:
- if i cba ill take u on in a p11

Ooh, good, I get a chance to employ my new and improved hit and run tactics./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Just a small FYI, I'm laying all my cash on the fact that a P11 or I-153 will not even land a bullet on my LA7, throughout this entire series, unless of course, I have a major blackout, brain fart or just get stupid.

It's too easy to avoid the slow planes and take my shots as they come. It may take a little time against Ace P11 or I-153 pilots, but the outcome is inevitable./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 09:06 PM
slick , youdo realise that over 7000 the LA-7 v P-47 is like the LA-7 v P-11 ?

it isnt that dramatic but if you are high & you have a P-47 above you , things are not good

avoid his BnZ ? , sure but you can get caught out

stay in the air longer than a P-47 ? , lol NO

with 50% fuel a jug pilot can out-last your 100%

& with 100% fuel your LA isnt that manuerverable

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 09:39 PM
Yes, but you're referring to certain situations. My series is based on both players taking off at the same time, from good distanced bases and meeting wherever they meet. Loadouts, tactics, fuel is all up to the individual.

A pilot can approach this series from any tactical angle they wish. The idea is to dogfight the best way you know how, in the plane you prefer.

Anybody who has to climb to over 7000m to perform effective B and Z will not be followed by me. No need, when really all you need is about a 1500-2000m cushion above the LA7 or any plane to be able to use that energy advantage effectively.

The main thing to B and Z is patience and awesome marksmanship. I have plenty of both. I fear no plane or player in this game and I shall endeavor to use this series to affirm my place at the pinnacle of the FB success ladder./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Egotistical you say?!?

I prefer to call it confidence in my abilities and the abilities of the plane that I fly. Knowing who the best of the best already are and having faced most of them during scouting, I will be a force to be reckoned with. Be sure./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

After a little while, I shall start revealing flown-under aliases that I have used over the past two years to practice and scout with. A few might remember one or two of them as being that "Unknown Ace" who put the smackdown on them on their own server./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

Message Edited on 10/30/0303:41PM by SlickStick

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 10:13 PM
S!

Please hit the record button...so we can view it later in all it glory.....Sweet!!

Falcon

<center>http://777AVG.com/sigs/sig07.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 10:30 PM
DnnC wrote:
- I'm sure many people have had trouble taking down
- LA-7s. So I wanted to start this post so people can
- add their tactics on decreasing their ever
- increasing population. In my opinion it is too
- powerful of a plane but i won't get into that.
-
- My way of taking LAs down has usually been getting
- at a high altitude around 2000-3000 meters. The LA
- will of course climb up and get on your tail easily.
- Let him get within 200-300 meters. Then dive
- straight down to the deck. Now I suggest you get
- into a FW 190 so you can pull out of it. At high
- speed the LA won't be able to pull out and will
- smack into the ground. Not exactly honorable but it
- gets the job done.
-
-

You are talking about the AI aircraft, correct? I've seen them do things that make me just want to shake my head and pop a few asprin. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Leben Sie heute, für morgen zu k¤mpfen

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 10:43 PM
Good point, Joachim. The AI is a totally different animal when it comes to physics, but the AI is easily fooled with tactics that would never fool a human Ace online./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 10:54 PM
i refuse to play dogfights with LA7s, they are way overmodeled, and me a newbie while in 109s and 190s get beat up by them can switch to the LA7 and have instant success... just have to wait for the patch to fix the FMs a bit...

109s biggest weakness is it overheats way too fast, on the deck i can get a K to out run a LA7, but it will overheat fast and thats when i would get eaten up...

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 10:59 PM
More good points, MGallun.

I have it on good faith that the CEM issues with the 109 will be resolved in V1.2. It remains to be seen what FM/DM changes are made though./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:03 PM
This has been a good topic. I hope to see all of you on my server over the next few weeks. We'll have a great time and for those who just have to see the difference the man makes, I will entertain post-series challenges to fly against the LA7 with my bird of choice.

Oh, and it won't be the LA7./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of the LA7 has helped me to learn the tactics required to beat it. However, we can't go revealing them before the series, now can we?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:03 PM
not sure, should 109 be more hardy? i have noticed in my numerous times of getting shot up in one it doesnt take much... lol

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:04 PM
Double Cherry.
A 37mm cannon can take them out with ease.


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:05 PM
Doh ...... missed the cherry.

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<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<center><table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> P-39 Vet since the original IL-2 Sturmovik </table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> Soon to be P-63 Vet </table style></center>

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:42 PM
hi... this is no offense to the pilots..... but I seriously dislike the uber La-7. That is the reason I like going for them first when I get my 262 going. Chances are I'll get lit up eventually..... normally while in a 100% power climb with the la 1 km back. How they can pass you while your going 750+ km/h do a 108 turn then proceed to climb with you... I'll never know. Maybe the plane can do that.... but the pilot would be a pulp splashing around on the floor of his cockpit.

Now... I'm no great fighter pilot. But I'd try a 1 on 1 with a la-7 providing I can use my 262A-1a, even if I do become no more than another black cross under the La's canopy.

FuryFighter

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:48 PM
Not that I like flying the Uber La-7 but they are effective at taking out Uber 262's.


All in all I'll stick with my "Uber" P-39 until the P-63 is flyable.

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/Thumbsup2.gif

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<center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Warning: My intense sense of humor may tug at the stick crammed in your shaded spot.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">If you treasure your lack of humor please refrain from reading my posts as they may cause laughter.</table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=red,strength=1)">Heaven Forbid.</table style></center>
<center><table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> P-39 Vet since the original IL-2 Sturmovik </table style></center> <center><table style="filter:glow[color=black,strength=4)"> Soon to be P-63 Vet </table style></center>

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:56 PM
hehe... well... I'll stick with my Uber 262 untill the Go 229 comes out.....

then Uber La's will run in fear... lol... or they'll all switch to the P-80.

But come to think of it... there is something I dislike more than the La.... that guided missile the Bi-1. Anyone noticed that not only is it fast, but it can out turn a 262, even with combat flaps, the 262 is a sitting duck before the Bi-1's sniper rifles.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 12:12 AM
Not sure how the 262 can be called uber\overmodelled, its pretty legit, takes for ever to get going, be easy or flame out etc...

i have found 39s and LA7s overmodelled bigtime, big test was when i was flying a K4 at 7000m and had a p39 and la7 run me down..

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 03:28 AM
I certainly look forward to facing many P39s, Gemini. I know you use pit and no externals, so I would also change the server settings to accomodate yourself and others.

My main fun zone is the ultimate in situational awareness though, seeing exactly what he's doing and him seeing exactly what I'm doing and still winning, is a wicked rush for me. Especially, against some of the awesome, honest sticks that fly this game in the same zone./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 07:55 AM
Considering the amount of aliases you seem to fly under...how are we to identify your server ?

Oh...../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Lixma,

Blitzpig.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 07:59 AM
WUAF_Badsight wrote:
- slick , youdo realise that over 7000 the LA-7 v P-47
- is like the LA-7 v P-11 ?
-
- it isnt that dramatic but if you are high & you have
- a P-47 above you , things are not good
-
- avoid his BnZ ? , sure but you can get caught out
-
- stay in the air longer than a P-47 ? , lol NO
-
- with 50% fuel a jug pilot can out-last your 100%
-
- & with 100% fuel your LA isnt that manuerverable
-
-
With 25% fuel the P-47 can fly well over an hour and I have a track that can verify it. (Well you would have to trust that I was indeed using 25% fuel I suppose) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Also at 4600 meters and 80% fuel mix@ full throttle the Jug does not overheat until you climb higher, then you just need to lower to 60% and the engine will return to normal. This process repeats itself as you climb higher and no radiator is needed. Although after sometime you do indeed run out of water injection. I have not seen a LA catch the P-47 above 4500. Once at 6500 meters and with about 1.50 between you and the LA, you can start a slow climbing turn which the LA can not follow. Soon you will outturn the LA or it will stall. If at anytime the LA breaks off or calls you a sissy for running (lol) then you are free to B&Z. If not you will be behind him and you know he cant outdive you. And at that alt with combat flaps its hard for the LA to shake you.


Having said that I will admit there are actually vets who do prefer to fly the LA (reguardless of what most of us say about it). And they will refuse to be suckered into the Jugs playground just as I refuse to be suckered into the LAs/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


The plane I most fear is a properly flown FW-190. I keep a mental note of the good ones/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Maybe the 109 will return to the feared status after the add-on...who knows.
S~


http://www.angelfire.com/ab4/airplanes/P47_Thunderbolt/P47.jpg

Zayets
10-31-2003, 09:07 AM
FuryFighter wrote:

- But come to think of it... there is something I
- dislike more than the La.... that guided missile the
- Bi-1. Anyone noticed that not only is it fast, but
- it can out turn a 262, even with combat flaps, the
- 262 is a sitting duck before the Bi-1's sniper
- rifles.

Once I've thought I'll become fighter pilot and took the rocket for a whirl. Also against 262. You can't outturn them if you don't have enough power. And what is worst, above 850-900 kph in a dive , you lost all controls, you don't have anymore ailerons authority. You better be a sniper with that bird because:
-you will have maximum 15 mins of flight
-you have about 5 seconds ammo.

Zayets out

http://www.arr.go.ro/iar81c.JPG

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 12:18 PM
Lixma wrote:
- Considering the amount of aliases you seem to fly
- under...how are we to identify your server ?
-
- Oh

Actually, there's only a handful...it's not the quantity of names, it's the quality./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

However, for this series, look for $lick$tick on HyperLobby. Somebody already had the name with regular S's. I kind of like the dollar signs though./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 12:41 PM
Zayets, the funny thing about the BI-1 is when you get going too fast and it starts to nose down hard. If you have enough height, you can trim full nose down and start doing inverted loops at high speed, hehe./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 06:57 PM
LA-7 is not the only one problem. In my opinion Yak 3, Yak 9U, P-39Q are UFO's too ! It's very, very strange. I fight against them on Bf-109G6 - early and late, carrying out vertical manoeuvres with flaps in combat. After several hoops they make any mistake (Ace and Veteran). I have any problems with Average and Rookie. So, Bf-109 G10, G14, K and FWs are too heavy. In particulary FB's FW-190D is a parody of FW-190 (Me-262 too).

Sorry for my english!

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 07:59 PM
It's stuff like this that makes me glad I fly online wars. 1v1 dogfighting is lame. And I'm glad SlickStick enjoys the La7 so much. I would take zero pleasure in shooting anybody down in one of these planes. No sense of accomplishment there. Boring.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 08:27 PM
Actually the best a skilled la7 pilot can hope for against a well flown late war LW plane is a stalemate.

Better climb rate and slashing attacks are always better than spending the entire time avoiding someone's bnz.

Same goes for good p47 pilots vs la7. The best p47 pilots I've seen online never get shot down by la7's simply because they are always cruising around at a speed close to where the la7 breaks apart.

The la7 is a good dogfighter under 4000m. That's it. Take on someone like csl_Kocour with an la7 and they waste you every time in a 109G2.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 09:27 PM
Good for you, lilhorse. You stay in those online wars, because my server will be no place for you. It's usually the guys who can't fly 1 vs 1 that cry about it. Just like it's the ones who can't make the LA7 as dominant as others can, cry about it's uberness. Yes, some need a teammate to be a good pilot, but there are those who can stand on their own and still be a dominant force when they team up with someone./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

1 vs 1 is the pinnacle of skill assesment against a series of individuals. Exactly what this series is designed to do. You may not feel it would be an accomplishment, but I say when you can fly an LA7 and beat all comers, that has to count for something.

I'm just as knowledgeable and skilled in any plane in FB....they're all basically the same when you break it down. They can all be thrown around unhistorically, they all perform moves that defy physics and they are all located within a game./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 09:34 PM
Crackferret, in two years running, I haven't met a 109 pilot that could beat me 1 vs 1, either in the LA5FN or the LA7./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I certainly hope csl_Kocour finds his way onto my server. The G2 and F4 are easily beaten with an LA7 and I look forward to seeing his tactics and approach to the series.

One thing people forget, the LA7 does a good job of B and Z, too. It may not be able to dive as fast as a LW bird, but bet your arse the LA7 can stay close enough to catch them in the zoom climb or at least close enough to get behind them when they turn to dive again.

There are so many tactics that I have mastered flying this game, that it's almost automatic when it comes to knowing my opponents strengths, weaknesses, energy state and plane capabilities at any time during the match. Be sure./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 10:02 PM
I hate to say it, but lilhorse has a point. It takes little skill to kill just about anything with the La7. And it doesn't take much more to be able to dominate with it. Zero challenge, and nothing to brag about either.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 10:14 PM
Even against all comers, including other LA7 flyers?!?

Hmmm, I think differently about the situation. Not everybody can be beaten with an LA7, I'm just trying to find out who they are./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm talking about flying the very best this game has to offer, not downing noobs or team ********ing. I get my kicks beating the best this game has to offer. It's my schtick.

So, I guess what you're trying to say is no plane can beat an Ace LA7? Sounds more like whine-asses than pilots.

Like I posted before, I'll be more than happy to fly any individual who wants to fly an LA7 after the series against the bird of my choice. Then, once I prove the LA7's total dominance in this game, I'll demonstrate how to take one down./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 10:21 PM
SlickStick wrote:
- Good for you, lilhorse. You stay in those online
- wars, because my server will be no place for you.
- It's usually the guys who can't fly 1 vs 1 that cry
- about it.

BWWWAAAAHHHHHAAAHHHAAAAA! Gosh! I totally didn't see that jive-a$$ line coming a mile away! LOL!

Tell ya what SlickStick, you can fly any a/c however modest and I'll fly the most uber plane I can (I guess that'd be the LA-7 as far as you're concerned). And I'll bet you anything that you'd hack me out of the sky everytime. Can't you just sense the torrent of tears streaming down my face? LOL!

And even if I were able to do the same to you it wouldn't make it any less lame. What a bunch of dweebo gamer-geek nonsense! LOL!

BTW, if you're trying to horn in on RBJ's line of humor, don't bother. It's already been paradied by Baldie (better than you, I might add) and it was never funny to begin with.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 10:26 PM
SlickStick wrote:
- I'm talking about flying the very best this game has
- to offer, not downing noobs or team ********ing. I
- get my kicks beating the best this game has to
- offer. It's my schtick.

Uh, right. And it gets you what exactly? You do realize this is a game, right?

Sounds a little RBJ-ish to me.


- So, I guess what you're trying to say is no plane
- can beat an Ace LA7? Sounds more like whine-asses
- than pilots.

This line just before -

- Then, once I prove the LA7's total dominance in this
- game

Make up your mind.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 10:27 PM
Well said Buzzu,
i fly 109s mostly and regard myself as quite skillfull but since the 1.11 patch (yuck !!) a 1:1 is a sure defeat if one hasnt other advantages like wingmen or massive height or the other guy being a noob pilot.
Height advantage can be used though also differently like classical B&Z, its possibly to use a height advantage to drop on six of a La because if i put my nose down i can always roll faster then he can turn, its not an easy trick though...E-management is everything and luring the fight over the magical 3000 (actually 2500 m) barreer....
basically i just avoid 1:1 with La7s if possible and just B&Z into the thick furball and pick them out or i choose a LA with E exhausted and low on the deck after a dogfight and attack them with E surplus...they always turn and forget that i can turn better in my 109 for a few moments due to better E, going up in chandelles, going down again...sometimes works, sometimes not...

I think the biggest mistakes La7 pilot make is that they tend to get a bit arrogant and feel invulnerable and that makes them often too careless about their tactical situation...how a plane can spoil a character....

II/JG54_Zent

Buzz_25th wrote:
- An experienced La7 pilot is as tough an opponant as
- your going to get. I don't care what else your
- flying, except maybe a 262.
-
- Most of the tactics described in this thread or any
- other for that matter to beat a La7. Will work only
- against unexperienced pilots. Which in the case of
- La7's. There are a lot of them.
-
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- 25th_Buzz
- <center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg
-

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:03 AM
Yup, great game, too, DDT. I get personal satisfaction out of it, nothing more. It's a mere way to gauge the LA7s abilities against the rest of the world. I guess after the plane is proven, I'll have to have an LA7 vs LA7 series to prove the man./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Lil, call it whatever you want. The bottom line is all the Aces want to be the best at the game they choose to fly. Luckily for me, they're the ones that I'll be flying. That makes up the Top 10% of the flyers in this game.

The rest are the Ace wannabes or best in their squadron and the rest of their squadron think they can't be beat or the other lame % that flies around at 3000m waiting to swoop on an engaged pilot. Usually in a FW or 109./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Wow, that takes what?, one eye, one arm, RW and a big cannon, lol. Some skills./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I've studied every plane online and enjoy this as my main hobby. I play no other games besides that Lock-on "demo" once in awhile. I walk with a strut because I believe I'm the actual best that has ever flown this game. Whether it's true or not is irrelevant to the fun it is trying to prove it./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:09 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- SlickStick wrote:
-- I'm talking about flying the very best this game has
-- to offer, not downing noobs or team ********ing. I
-- get my kicks beating the best this game has to
-- offer. It's my schtick.
-
- Uh, right. And it gets you what exactly? You do
- realize this is a game, right?
-
- Sounds a little RBJ-ish to me.
-
-
-- So, I guess what you're trying to say is no plane
-- can beat an Ace LA7? Sounds more like whine-asses
-- than pilots.
-
- This line just before -
-
-- Then, once I prove the LA7's total dominance in this
-- game
-
- Make up your mind.

Make up your mind you mean. You say being great in an LA7 is easy and anybody can do it. I said I"LL prove the LAs dominance./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The LAs dominance is only proven in the most knowledgeable and capable hands. I'm hoping a few of the LA7 Aces out there come by. Other LA7 Aces will be the true test of the man, but I'll handle the machine part with this first series./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:11 AM
Damn, sorry, forgot one last thing....

The difference between RBJ and me, is that you're going to know you're flying me./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 07:16 AM
Slick, go find csl_Kocour on HL. He was nice enough to accept one vs one challenges the last time I saw him.

Let's just say some names that show up in "best online pilot" threads have challenged him and I never saw him lose.

If you see his name in HL send him a challenge. He can take a plane to it's bleeding edge like no one I've ever seen. He'll surely exploit every critical weakness of the la7 with devasting effect.

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 03:41 PM
The only real thing to nail the LA is the Altitude advantage. Diving from them will work but will only trick the less experienced pilot.

What I have trouble with is atleast two or more well experienced FW or 109 pilots - their deadly for the LA. They'll nail you everytime if you can't keep the altitude advantage up.

I really hate the uber thing. Their is no uber plane. I like flying the 109 also and when flown right is just as deadly.

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 05:04 PM
MGallun wrote:
- Not sure how the 262 can be called
- uber\overmodelled, its pretty legit, takes for ever
- to get going, be easy or flame out etc...
-
- i have found 39s and LA7s overmodelled bigtime, big
- test was when i was flying a K4 at 7000m and had a
- p39 and la7 run me down..


The term Uber has become clouded and twisted to mean overmodelled when orginally it meant great or super.

If I have an F-22 Raptor and everyone else has TB-3s then I'm flying an Uber F-22. F-22 against another F-22 not so Uber anymore.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 05:10 PM
SlickStick wrote:
- I certainly look forward to facing many P39s,
- Gemini. I know you use pit and no externals, so I
- would also change the server settings to accomodate
- yourself and others.
-
- My main fun zone is the ultimate in situational
- awareness though, seeing exactly what he's doing and
- him seeing exactly what I'm doing and still winning,
- is a wicked rush for me. Especially, against some
- of the awesome, honest sticks that fly this game in
- the same zone. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



'No Pit' and 'Externals' is too easy defensively IMO. Staying in the pit with no externals changes the way you need to fly and watch your back.


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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 05:12 PM
Cherry!!

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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 05:12 PM
SlickStick wrote:
- The rest are the Ace wannabes or best in their
- squadron and the rest of their squadron think they
- can't be beat or the other lame % that flies around
- at 3000m waiting to swoop on an engaged pilot.
- Usually in a FW or 109. Wow, that takes
- what?, one eye, one arm, RW and a big cannon, lol.
- Some skills.


Thing is, Slick, that's how it was done in RL. I'm sure you've heard the statistic that about 80% of kills were bounces. Plenty of "skilled" pilots never saw the plane that shot them down. That points up the main differences in our respective approaches to the game. I fly for the immersive aspects of the sim. Where mission objectives, tactics, teamwork, and the element of surprise factor in as much as flying and shooting skills. I don't see this as a glorified arcade game. To each their own I guess. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 09:38 PM
SlickStick wrote:
- Even against all comers, including other LA7
- flyers?!?
-
- Hmmm, I think differently about the situation. Not
- everybody can be beaten with an LA7, I'm just trying
- to find out who they are /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

- I'm talking about flying the very best this game has
- to offer, not downing noobs or team ********ing. I
- get my kicks beating the best this game has to
- offer. It's my schtick.

Interestingly Slickstick, your attitude reminds me of the "tournament knights" of the late Middle Ages, finding their fulfilment in 1 on 1 combat on a tournament field, rather than fighting in wars. There a knight would find the most skillful opponents, and gain renown defeating them.

Looking forward to being a datum point... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

cheers,
Tony
(flying as "wombat" on HL)


<A href="http://www.il2airracing.com/" alt="Il2 online air racing">
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~tonybirchill/race.jpg


Message Edited on 11/02/0306:39AM by backseatgunner

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 01:41 AM
BpGemini wrote:
-
-
- 'No Pit' and 'Externals' is too easy defensively
- IMO. Staying in the pit with no externals changes
- the way you need to fly and watch your back.

I agree, pit and no externals changes your tactics slightly, but in a 1 vs 1, FR isn't that difficult. The planes can still be flown the same and you just have to imagine where he is under the nose when you're setting up those deflection shots./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I actually think the other way around, though. FR is great for immersion and the closest feeling to flying, but the ultimate in skill assessment against the mass majority that play the game the same way, comes from the fact that you can watch what each other are doing and still one gets the other through ability, finesse and situational awareness. Or a little luck in some cases./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But, then again, luck is a product of skill and experience, hehe.

Tony,

That was quite an eloquent way to put it and you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly my goal, to fly the very best in the game and gauge my abilities against them. Thanks for that bit of insightful understanding.

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 02:27 AM
SlickStick wrote:
- I agree, pit and no externals changes your tactics
- slightly, but in a 1 vs 1, FR isn't that difficult.
- The planes can still be flown the same and you just
- have to imagine where he is under the nose when
- you're setting up those deflection shots./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- I actually think the other way around, though. FR
- is great for immersion and the closest feeling to
- flying, but the ultimate in skill assessment against
- the mass majority that play the game the same way,
- comes from the fact that you can watch what each
- other are doing and still one gets the other through
- ability, finesse and situational awareness. Or a
- little luck in some cases. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But, then again, luck is a
- product of skill and experience, hehe.



I think it all depends on your point of view. IMO your point of view is about the offensive side of a 1v1 DF. My point of view is the defensive side. I also believe the defensive side is the harder of the two sides. For example, shaking someone off your six is much harder than staying on someone's six. Playing FR makes the hardest part of the game harder, which means more challenging than open pit and externals.

Just my 2c.

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XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 04:26 AM
Totally agreed. That's why we all love this game, we can play it any way we choose and find many others to fly with no matter which way we go./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I like to fly on FR servers, it just changes tactics a bit. However, you have to agree, it's harder shaking a bandit with no pit/externals, than none, right? And when you can do it and make him overshoot or stall, and then you land some 20mms, it adds that extra oomph to the engagement for me./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

Message Edited on 11/01/0310:28PM by SlickStick

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 04:34 AM
SlickStick wrote:
- Totally agreed. That's why we all love this game,
- we can play it any way we choose and find many
- others to fly with no matter which way we go. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- I like to fly on FR servers, it just changes tactics
- a bit. However, you have to agree, it's harder
- shaking a bandit with no pit/externals, than none,
- right? And when you can do it and make him
- overshoot or stall, and then you land some 20mms, it
- adds that extra oomph to the engagement for me. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


I dunno, seems like it'd be easier to shake one when you know what he's doing rather than blind to his tactics.

I always liked the stall to make them overshoot tactic.

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XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 07:19 PM
Fw190A9s and Yak3s are, in my experience, the only planes that can go toe to toe with an La7.

First La pilots can get too confident ( I know I do when I fly one ), and they have a tendency to use turning tactics even tough it's an excellent E fighter

A A9 seems to be able to pull more sustained Gs, It's more agile at high speed ( 400km+ ). The A9 also has a roll rate that's at least equal to the La7 at low speed and better at high speed. La7 can't seem to keep up in long high speed, high G barrel rolls- and an La7 will break up before A9 in high speed/ high G flight

The Yak has advantage in slow vertical combat. La7 seem to turn tighter than Yak in the horizontal.

The Fw is more challenging and more fun

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 09:34 PM
Now is eassy, just get the pony or the Ki-84. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 10:35 PM
u actully haveto reasonable pilot to kill stuff
i spent a few hours watchin a 40-50year old fly...
got the stick and throttle mixed up
alot
:\
i fly for fun, im no expert at any plane but i can fly em all reasonably
just getting used to useing E tatics... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
dont fly online tho :\/

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 11:37 AM
SlickStick, you're so arrogantly full of yourself you make me wanna puke all over you.

"See, Decide, Attack, Reverse or Coffee Break" E.H.

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 02:18 PM
EFG_Zeb wrote:
- SlickStick, you're so arrogantly full of yourself
- you make me wanna puke all over you.
-
- "See, Decide, Attack, Reverse or Coffee Break" E.H.

Yeah, ain't it cool?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

If stating facts is arrogance, then I'm guilty as charged./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LOL, and you Sir, may want to seek medical assistance to remove that hook from your mouth./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 03:15 PM
Say Mr. Slick Stick , if you are as good as you say you are , my guess is that you used the name of Crafty1 in the past. Its doubtful to me that old RottenForeskin would have switched to an LA. But maybe , considering the way the flightmodel of the FW changed from IL2--. Its doubtful to me he would accept the cowardly tactics required for the fw in 1vs1 against the La.

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 04:19 PM
It's funny you should mention Roten4skin. Him and Maj_Death are the two best FW pilots I ever faced in IL2. They had the A5 down pat and provided the most intense and gut-wrenching dogfights I have ever had flying the LA5FN. That spiral of death that the Maj used was very effective./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Roten never flew the series, IIRC, but Maj_Death stopped by for a round one Saturday morning. I surprised him with my abilities on the first engagement and as I started to learn to counter him, he started having connection problems, setting off the lag message on every pass.

I explained a few things about connections to him and never got the chance to fly him again in the series. I'll have to look in my book, but I believe the score was 4-3 and is the only pilot in 55 to better me in the series, back in IL2./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Roten used to be fun to fly on the old IL2 UBI Dedicated Server. I haven't seen him around in awhile. But, I was witness to the two of them going at it in FWs on that same server one night. It was cool to watch.

Those two pilots have my respect and I look forward to facing them in this series. As long as their connections are sound./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 04:35 PM
p1ngu666 wrote:
- dont fly online tho


Why not?
That's the best place to learn fast.

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XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 04:35 PM
Yep, those were the days. Awesome fights.

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 07:06 PM
The La7s are nice, but not the best plane in the game, the 262 is, 262 has no match in a straight up plane... if i want to just shot down people i take the 262, especially LA7s, nothing like diving down at 800kmph, taken a few pot shots and climbing and watching them trying to keep up, when they lose E and turn away, i just turn back around and wham bam dead LA... some LW prop planes should be able to do that too, but due to either the LA being overmodelled or the LW props undermodelled they just dont work, the A9 and D9 with a good pilot can do it well, i learned the tactic and done it plenty of times, but sometimes the uber LA and Yak3 can just turn up and keep up with me when i had a E advantage from hell.. oh well, they cant keep up with a 262... only on takeoff or landing or a flaming 262 can u take it out, lucky shots etc...

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 07:31 PM
Agreed, a 262 with altitude is a pain in the arse, sometimes literally./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

However, a smart LA7 pilot lets the 262 dive all day, avoiding the shots because the MK108s on the 262 are not that accurate, whether intended or not, and keeps climbing slightly, while maintaing 450-500km/h under the 262. This allows for a quicker escape turn when the 262 is diving. Kind of like the way fish dart in the ocean when they see the big fish barreling in to make a meal of them.

Eventually, the 262 will attempt a turn after not getting enough distance or the LA7 will close the gap due to the 262's poor acceleration on the deck, compared to an LA7 or the 262 will run out of fuel.

All that's needed against 262's is to get within 500m or so and land one or two 20mms, in a high deflection shot, to a 262 engine and it usually catches fire./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 07:41 PM
that is of course if you catch a 262 pilot who will stay on deck, normally what i do is dive, take the shots and turn up and away from the target with a decent climb keeping speed no slower than 350kph.. when it gets close to that speed i level out and put engines up to 100 per to get going again, no plane can get me that way... i have never been shot down by a fighter, bombers and flak are another story....


from what i heard the new P51 in the beta patch is rather good too.. too bad german planes are not good at turn fighting, its can be rather fun, but i can bring my self to fly a russian object so i will live with the dive and attack and climb away if iam one on one or outnumbered, if i have other teammates close by i might turn and shot a bit, as long as i have somebody close who might help clear tail... lol

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 09:58 PM
Good tactics, Red. And quite essential for the 262. The only turn fighting I do with the ME-262 is against another ME-262, hehe./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 10:23 PM
i try the same tactics with prop planes, works ok with D9 and A9, but 109s just suck as they overheat too much, thats the main problem with me with 109, just cant keep it fast enough... lol...

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 10:36 PM
V1.2 will address the 109's CEM issues. At least that is one of the things that has been prophecized about V1.2.

Maybe one of the people flying the beta could give us more info about the 109's CEM state of affairs? hehe /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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