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View Full Version : 50. cal tip !!!



XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 05:48 PM
I dont know what the proper convergance for 50.calls were in the war but in this sim 180.00 Destroyes ac easily

I had the convergance @ 300.00 for a long time & thought it was ok but the 50.s seemed very week & near usless now Im using 161.8 wich seems even more wicked than 180.00 im willing to bet 150.00 will be even better give it a try !!!

PS what convergance have you been using for the p47D10 ?

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 05:48 PM
I dont know what the proper convergance for 50.calls were in the war but in this sim 180.00 Destroyes ac easily

I had the convergance @ 300.00 for a long time & thought it was ok but the 50.s seemed very week & near usless now Im using 161.8 wich seems even more wicked than 180.00 im willing to bet 150.00 will be even better give it a try !!!

PS what convergance have you been using for the p47D10 ?

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1063229517.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 05:53 PM
Well do you mean that you shoot with 150 convergence from like far (say 300 meters) or do you come close and then shoot with the .50 cals, cause as you know, the closer the better to shoot.
btw why are you using Murdocs sig? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 05:55 PM
Now you admit .50 cal is not a pee-shooter? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:02 PM
TooCooL34 wrote:
- Now you admit .50 cal is not a pee-shooter? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-

With the 2 cal .50 on the Bf.109 you can shot down a 4 engine bomber by concentrating fire on 1 engine until it catches fire... and if it doesn't, then just press the MK.108 button!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:06 PM
Skyhawk I normaly start to leed fire in a dive around 300m

then I can see where the tracers are going and adjust quickley to make many hits...

when I had the convergance @ 300m I used the same firing tactic as before but now with the convergance so much lower its killing alot more ac alot faster

Now Im choping wings off Il2 exploding yaks cuting 190 & 109 wings this did not happen before I hit them the same my firing style has not changed only the convergance has changed & its much much better....

Altho I feal the 50.s should be able to have the same hitting power @ 300m but they dont in this sim!!!

<center> http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1063229517.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:08 PM
Skyhawk44 wrote:
btw why are you using Murdocs sig?


Ill give you one guess /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:14 PM
Be careful, you're way off again.

cozmo_d wrote:
-
- Altho I feal the 50.s should be able to have the
- same hitting power @ 300m but they dont in this
- sim!!!



=======================================
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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:15 PM
You mean .51 caliber on the G-6/AS and later.

Wonder why the Russians never used the 14.5mm MG on their aircraft. Its probably the most powerfull machine gun ever unless you step into the cannon region.

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:17 PM
Because 20mm Shvak is better? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:17 PM
Too Cool Fool I was never way off with the 190 discusion

The roll rate is too high end of story.

as for historical range of 50. call I have no idea so maybe im way off there Ill go search for some info.

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:18 PM
That's very useful. I've been getting decent results with 300 on the P-47 (since the FB-111 patch), but I need all the help I can get.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:20 PM
slopchute wrote:
- That's very useful. I've been getting decent results
- with 300 on the P-47 (since the FB-111 patch), but I
- need all the help I can get.



your gona see a BIG differance if you use 160/180 its like a new gun platform



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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:29 PM
Jeez, learn air attack skill before personal attack. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I didn't argue with you about roll rate. It was also .50 cal.

cozmo_d wrote:
- Too Cool Fool I was never way off with the 190
- discusion
-
- The roll rate is too high end of story.



=======================================
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=815=Squadron in South Korea
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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:31 PM
.50s are weak as hell reguardless what convergence close distance, but they work great on il2s and 109s, 190s can take the whole ammos ammount into the tail but hit the 190 in the gas tank from the side or belly and you can explode them. Now la7s yaks lagg3 b239 190s tb3s seem to take so much damage from .50s

same with the hurricanes 303

and the 109s 20mm

but the vvs can explode just about anything even with one smg shot out at a farther range .80 to 1.1 try downing anything with 1 or 2 .50s online 20mm or 303s. Offline its a different story even a ai ace will bail from a short burst of any smg

take a look at some b17 waiste gunner footage downing 190s and 109s thats what 1 .50 should be capable of hitting an engine.


http://ballistics.grc.nasa.gov/


The way .50s are modeled in FB

http://members.aol.com/BLKort/jpg/quad50.jpg


this would be useless but in fact thousands of a/c were shot down at ranges 1500-2000 meters away

also exploding and incideary rounds had a huge impact at a distance. Olegs .50s are weak even for non exploding rounds






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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:37 PM
Experience with short burst of fire

.50 cals + Hurricane = Bogey with lots of holes, and a suprised pilot
.50 cals + P47 = leaking fuel bogey eventually leading to "on fire" bogey
.50 cals + P39 = Smoking burning bogey
.50 cals + P40 = dead bogey in pieces

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:38 PM
cozmo_d wrote:

- Altho I feal the 50.s should be able to have the
- same hitting power @ 300m but they dont in this
- sim!!!


They don't in real life either. The farther the round has to travel the less kinetic energy it will have when it reaches its target.

That said, the difference in KE between 150m and 300m shouldn't be all that great. The real difference you're seeing is the result of the convergence.

The whole point of setting a convergence is that at that distance, all of your guns will be hitting the same spot. If you set for 300 and then start firing at 300, your hit zone will only be getting wider as you draw closer to your target, which will spread out the damage over a larger area.

If you set it for 150 and shoot at 300, and refine your aim as you get closer, your zone of damage will become more focused and smaller as you get closer. Now instead of putting lots of small holes all over the wing, you put one really big hole in one place on the wing, and maybe cut through a spar.

Think of it as like hitting a board with a hammer. The hammer would be like setting for 300m. You'll hit and make a mark and do some damage, but it'll mostly be limited to the surface, and is over a relatively large area.

Then take a nail (which is like setting to 150m) and hit the nail with the hammer. The nail goes right into (maybe through) the board. You haven't hit the board any harder than you did before, but you focused all of that power onto one small point. The damaged area isn't as widespread, but it goes much deeper and causes more structural harm.

I hope that helps explain it.





Message Edited on 09/18/0305:40PM by BinaryFalcon

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:39 PM
all depends at what type of a/c your firing on you can explode il2s and 109s very easy and short or close range but not the others


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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 06:49 PM
Roger that Falcon Good explanation



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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:09 PM
German MG151/15 is the best /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif in FB UBS is the king.. single UBS is better than 8x .50cals on the Jug..

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:13 PM
thx..I'll give it a try/i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:29 PM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- .50s are weak as hell reguardless what convergence
- close distance,

You're doing something wrong then! They are not
as powerful as 20mm cannon (4 20mm cannon should
be the equivalent of about 12 .50s, or putting it
another way, the P47 should have the power of
about 2.5 20mm cannon) but you can and should be
able to shoot things down with them. I am a lousy
pilot with so-so gunnery, and they work for me...

- same with the hurricanes 303

These are rightfully less effective, but you
can still shoot things down with them. It's more
a case of hitting the right areas with the .303s
though.

- but the vvs can explode just about anything even
- with one smg shot out at a farther range .80 to 1.1

Not noticed that myself.

- take a look at some b17 waiste gunner footage
- downing 190s and 109s thats what 1 .50 should be
- capable of hitting an engine.

With B17s you have a large number flying in formation.
It's a bit hard to say if a 190 has been hit by one
or multiple gunners.


- this would be useless but in fact thousands of a/c
- were shot down at ranges 1500-2000 meters away

By .50s? Not in this universe... Dream on...

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:33 PM
After the patch I switched from the Emil to the Buffalo as my fav. a/c. The convergence I reduced from 120 to 100m and ,to me, those 0.5" seems are very effective to any a/c. The Buffalo seems to have a more powerful armament than the 1x20mm+2x7.9/13mm standard of German fighters./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 07:46 PM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- .50s are weak as hell reguardless what convergence
- close distance, but they work great on il2s and
- 109s, 190s can take the whole ammos ammount into the
- tail but hit the 190 in the gas tank from the side
- or belly and you can explode them. Now la7s yaks
- lagg3 b239 190s tb3s seem to take so much damage
- from .50s
-
- same with the hurricanes 303
-
- and the 109s 20mm
-
- but the vvs can explode just about anything even
- with one smg shot out at a farther range .80 to 1.1
- try downing anything with 1 or 2 .50s online 20mm or
- 303s. Offline its a different story even a ai ace
- will bail from a short burst of any smg
-
- take a look at some b17 waiste gunner footage
- downing 190s and 109s thats what 1 .50 should be
- capable of hitting an engine.

i really dont think its the .50 call itself, simply the spray of the p47.

The .50 cal hitting power seems allright, you just cant focus it at all, the problem with the p47 is the spray is so horribly wild that you just arent getting enough hits. This is why the p40 is so much more effective, and why lowering the convergence on the p47 helps a lot. Why such a heavy stable gun platform aircraft(like the p47) was modeled to spray like rapid fire muskets is beyond me...