View Full Version : Interesting historical footage

07-31-2008, 11:26 PM
The last piece of footage in this video is intriguing (it starts at approx 5:22).

Here (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm8Bp-ZTX5U)

It looks as though a gaggle of 190's (i dont think you could call them a formation) is hitting a formation of B-24's. A number of the 190's seem to have belly-tanks still attached and are crowding each others aim.
Has anyone seen this before?
Does anyone know the story behind it?
Was it a group of novices or was this a deliberate tactic?

08-01-2008, 12:24 AM
This is the gun camera footage recorded by a FW-190A7 Sturmbock, part of a Sturmstaffel attacking in wedge.

This is only part of the Gefechtsverband, which should contain another 4 Schwarm at least, plus around 56 or more Bf-109 G10/G6AS high-alt cover engaging any American fighter cover. Individual gun-camera footage is quite limiting.

Sturmbock translates to "Battering Ram" in English.

The Schwarm we are watching seems to me to be the first wave - which is clearing out the center of the "Pulk" - and doing a pretty good job. They are trying to clear out one or two bombers for the following Sturmbock equipped groups - then they will make another pass if they survive.

On the other hand, the maneuvers by the recording aircraft in the last few frames reveal that he has pulled back up into the stream - wish the Luftwaffe had decided to share the "rest" of the video back in the day.

Tanks on two of the aircraft are still attached for various reasons - none of which are out of Sturmbock operational procedure.

B-24's here are also quite probably located in the center of the "Bomber Stream" where escort aircraft are not present.

It's also possible that they simply forgot to drop the tanks.

Non-Sturmbock 190's (Anton Jaegers) would never attack in this formation. It's unique to the Sturmbock equipped groups.

I'll even go further and guess this attack is being conducted by Sturmstaffel 1 or as it was known later, IV/JG3 due to the aircraft being a 190-A7 vice A8.

I believe this "packaged" footage to be an early training video for Sturmbock pilots - leading more weight to the association with Sturmstaffel 1.

Great question... hope I helped..



08-01-2008, 01:55 AM
Thanks for the reply Gunslinger http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
That't the sort of answer i was hoping for. I think the term 'Battering ram' is quite accurate. Even better would be 'Bar-room brawl' (what's that in German?).
It's not a neat, surgical strike. It's a brutal hit on a tight formation- it would definitely have been frightening to execute as well as confront.
What year would this battle have likely taken place?

08-01-2008, 02:09 AM
I see a lot of dead 6 approaches here.

08-01-2008, 03:09 AM
I just did some surfing to find out about the 'Sturmbocks'.
Here's the link (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/neilpage/sturmbockfw190.html)

08-01-2008, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by b2spirita:
I see a lot of dead 6 approaches here.

Standard Sturmgruppe tactics - the pilot of an up-armoured Sturmbock had litle to fear from bombers' defensive-fire:

<span class="ev_code_yellow">"The newly designated Sturmgruppe, IV.(Sturm)/JG3, began receiving aircraft for its new mission: the Fw 190A-8/R2 Sturmbock (assault battering ram), which had proven itself in Sturmstaffel 1. Its two 30-mm cannon were extremely effective versus bombers; only three hits were required to bring down a B-17, while a single hit could often crumple a B-24. The assault fighters had proven almost invulnerable to bomber fire, but were so slow and unwieldy that they were prime targets for American fighters and, like the twin-engine Zerstöer, required escort by conventional fighters to fulfill their own mission. The Sturmgruppe was to attack the the bomber formations in close formation from the rear, the tactic developed by Sturmstaffel 1..."</span> - Donald Caldwell

Here is a good pic of the extra armour on the Sturmbock: