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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 12:29 AM
There was one feature in CFS3 that wasn't bad, and i'd like to see in FB.

As you gained experience, you could tollerate more G's. This is real life. If we went up with Patty Wagstaff, we'd probably all black out. Through training, you can take more G's than a rookie. In FB it would mean the screen not going as black/red, as fast. This is all part of becoming an ace, and would be a good feature. If you die, then you'd have to start all over again. Whatcha think?

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 12:29 AM
There was one feature in CFS3 that wasn't bad, and i'd like to see in FB.

As you gained experience, you could tollerate more G's. This is real life. If we went up with Patty Wagstaff, we'd probably all black out. Through training, you can take more G's than a rookie. In FB it would mean the screen not going as black/red, as fast. This is all part of becoming an ace, and would be a good feature. If you die, then you'd have to start all over again. Whatcha think?

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 12:34 AM
one assumes you are talking offline campaign here

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 12:37 AM
I think it would be good for online wars too.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 12:38 AM
yeah thats one thing i liked about cfs3 how in a max dive it had a real feel of tension in the stick if you crossed the line you couldnt get out of the dive

I would like to see it in FB also, its funny in fb when your half blacked out you loose elevator rudders and aileron control but you still have complete control over flaps and trottle makes no sense


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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 12:45 AM
As for having more tolerance for G's as experience grew, that is true to certain degree, but I don't know that it would make that much of a difference to warrant showing it FB. Your ability to take Gs is largely based on physical condition, and most pilot, becoming more stressed as they flew, might LOSE some G pulling ability. It kind of balances out that the ability to pull/not pull Gs.

Leadspitter, I can't nail down what someone can do under G's, but I do know that pilots were able to function to a degree while in a blackout. Some pilots pushed their planes into an intentional black because they knew the plane would come out and they had an idea where they would be situation wise. There is a certain truth to having a little control during blackout, but to what degree or available controls I don't have clue.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 01:29 AM
Only in online campaigns.

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 01:56 AM
You didn't think this one through. The sim assumes the player is a competent pilot.

Thus, G resistance would have already been built up through prior training. You don't get added G resistance by "being an ace" or by getting combat experience, for the most part.

And anyway, the sim gives us the benefit of the doubt in G resistance most of the time. If you black or grey out in the sim, you're hamfisting the stick too much, period. Take your medicine.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 02:01 AM
This would be great for online dogfights. The more points you have the higher your G tolerance. And those who team kill repeatedly would eventually turn their screen perma black.

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 02:04 AM
How bout teamkillers get a nice pink skin on thier plane?

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 02:22 AM
I like Willey's idea of Fatigue better. The more and/or higher G loads the player pulls, the greater the effects of blackout become. As time goes by (during a hard fight), hard manuevering becomes more and more dificult (also maybe control input becomes more 'muted'). This would increase the historical realism of dogfights quite a lot. As opposed to CFS3's concept which actually decreases realism, because the 'aces' simply become able to perform more and more unrealistic dogfighting techniques. The reason aces like Eric Hartmann or Joe Foss or Douglass Bader were effective was not because they could pull significantly higher G's, but because they conducted their attacks with more effective tactics.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 02:25 AM
Maybe if campaign pilot gets "wounded," he/she lose a little G Tolerance. And if pilot is "heavily wounded," she/he lose alot of G Tolerance, and maybe even some G Compassion too.

I have often seen posts where FB campaigners post about their charactor pilot being corked in a hospital. Maybe they could lower the G for pilots releaced from hopital.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 02:32 AM
-RayBanJockey wrote:
-"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.


Did someone really tell you that yesterday?? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 02:43 AM
You can train in technique to resist G, but to say one can train to build up tolerance is absurd. You can either take them or not, much depending on what shape your body happens to be in for that particular day. A highly experianced pilot can have a bad day where he just looses his cookies, while a rookie can ride the same thing through just fine. It's just a rookie is more likely to not know his limits as well and push a little harder, not his body doesn't have a resistance built up.

The most effective thing you can do for resistance is low to medium warm up G pulls, they only work for that particular day and if you do them before the heavy engagements.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 02:46 AM
G compassion

hmmm .... good concept

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 02:57 AM
ZG77 Lignite, that isn'r exactly true. Hartmman used to use a neg G nose over quite a bit as a way to escape. He was in really good shape and could pull Neg Gs pretty well.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 03:18 AM
lol

So - will we have G rankings then?

I can just see it now

"Recon how did you do that move?"

"Well, son, I have super-G abilities - I've pulled so many G's yanking my stick that I can do anything!!!"



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Message Edited on 07/08/0302:19AM by Recon_609IAP

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 03:24 AM
BfHeFwMe

That's not true. I have a friend who has an Extra 300. He says he can take alot more G's now, than when he started. He has to train hard to keep it though. Some is mental, and some is physical. It's like playing golf. Do it all the time, or lose it.

I honestly believe a WW2 ace can take more G's than a rookie. If for no other reason than he's been doing it longer, and is conditioned for it.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 01:34 PM
falcon 3.0 was simulate, when you long fly with high gs,
go the gs tolerance down


that would bnz make more effective,
when the opponent after some break turn can less gs tolerate




Message Edited on 07/08/0303:44PM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 01:43 PM
I have mapped G tolerance to a slider http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Zayets
07-08-2003, 01:52 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- This would be great for online dogfights. The more
- points you have the higher your G tolerance. And
- those who team kill repeatedly would eventually turn
- their screen perma black.
-
- <img
- src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/rep
- ository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What a fart
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a moron.Not like he changed since that day
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)

RBJ , why do you complain? You are an ace so you shouldn't black out , hehehehe
Zayets out

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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 01:54 PM
Fly early red planes, like hurri or i16, and you'll never blackout. One of the aspects that must be changed in the patch.
Now it's too late for it but it will also be nice to implement pilot stamina in turnfights, because right now you can endure turns forever which is completely unrealistic. After a turnfight (say 4 turns) pulling a sustained 3G no pilot can enter another turnfight without a pause. It can be implemented the way engine overheats, with a number for stamina next to net status indicator. Pulled Gs too much time -> you can't apply full force on the stick (turn rate suffers), take a pause.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 02:16 PM
Huckebein_FW wrote:
- Fly early red planes, like hurri or i16, and you'll
- never blackout. One of the aspects that must be
- changed in the patch.
- Now it's too late for it but it will also be nice to
- implement pilot stamina in turnfights, because right
- now you can endure turns forever which is completely
- unrealistic. After a turnfight (say 4 turns) pulling
- a sustained 3G no pilot can enter another turnfight
- without a pause. It can be implemented the way
- engine overheats, with a number for stamina next to
- net status indicator. Pulled Gs too much time -> you
- can't apply full force on the stick (turn rate
- suffers), take a pause.
-
-

This is a good idea maybe after 4 hard turns for example the pilot gets exhausted and is no longer able to pull full Gs and as if he turns longer the recovery takes significantly longer.

Like it is now modeled with injuries the pilot is not able to use its plane like before all movements are slower .

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 04:40 PM
Haven't you guys ever watched an aerobatic contest? They pull alot more G's than a WW2 plane could ever do, and do it for 15 minutes non stop. They don't wear a G-suit either.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 06:33 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- BfHeFwMe
-
- That's not true. I have a friend who has an Extra
- 300. He says he can take alot more G's now, than
- when he started. He has to train hard to keep it
- though. Some is mental, and some is physical. It's
- like playing golf. Do it all the time, or lose it.
-
-
- I honestly believe a WW2 ace can take more G's than
- a rookie. If for no other reason than he's been
- doing it longer, and is conditioned for it.
-
-
- Da Buzz


Explain why high time pilots still die from G lock. There's no direct connection to skill level. According to your theory it should never happen to experianced pilots, yet in the real world it does.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 06:49 PM
ZG77_Lignite wrote:
- I like Willey's idea of Fatigue better. The more
- and/or higher G loads the player pulls, the greater
- the effects of blackout become. As time goes by
- (during a hard fight), hard manuevering becomes more
- and more dificult (also maybe control input becomes
- more 'muted'). This would increase the historical
- realism of dogfights quite a lot.
- The reason aces like Eric Hartmann or Joe Foss or
- Douglass Bader were effective was not because they
- could pull significantly higher G's, but because
- they conducted their attacks with more effective
- tactics.
-
-Yep, accumulation of fatigue during a mission sounds good if it's realistic. Have to ask those aerobatic pilots their opinions..

Somebody wrote Hartmann used the neg G move to escape & seemed to think it was because he could tolerate more Gs. Not the case. It's a tactic which prevents the persuer from getting lead etc.

I16s Hurris etc. are so slow that I don't think you CAN pull enough Gs to black out. Limiting them to four turns or so is way unrealistic.

"Anytime you have an opportunity to make things better and you don't, then you are wasting your time on this earth." -Roberto Clemente

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 07:33 PM
Saburo_0 wrote:
-
- I16s Hurris etc. are so slow that I don't think you
- CAN pull enough Gs to black out. Limiting them to
- four turns or so is way unrealistic.


Very much untrue. Hurri could pull 5G at 300kph. Have you ever blackout pulling hard from 300kmh in a Hurri? For I-153 is even lower: 5G at 240kmh.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 07:44 PM
BfHeFwMe

Skill level? I'm talking about time, experience, and training.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 07:50 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Haven't you guys ever watched an aerobatic contest?
- They pull alot more G's than a WW2 plane could ever
- do, and do it for 15 minutes non stop. They don't
- wear a G-suit either.


First BuzzU, time for representations is rarely 10 minutes. Second you'll never see in a aerobatic demonstration pilots sustaining more than 4-5Gs for more than 1 minute without pause.

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 07:53 PM
I've been in the plane Huck. I know better. Did I black out? Yep.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 07:58 PM
Oh Buzz~!!

The only G's your pulling these days are Geritols~! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But anyway,

Didn't the American and Germans do some experiments with G suits before the end of the war?



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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:03 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- I've been in the plane Huck. I know better. Did I
- black out? Yep.


Good for you BuzzU. But to answer your question, Oleg made clear that only a medium endurance will be simulated. Even aces had problems with Gs, for example Hartmann nose often bled (especially negative Gs). The fact that he used a lot of negative Gs is another proof that Hartmann also flew aerobatic, not just high speed dives on target and shootings in close proximity as he preached (he was right of coursehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 08:05 PM
I never said aces didn't get G forces. I said through experience they could proably hande more G's than a rookie. I guess the developers of CFS3 thought the same thing.

It's not important anyway. I was just making conversation.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 10:49 PM
Bump. I still say simulated fatigue will make for more realistic dogfights, while increased G tolerance for 'experience' will lead to less realistic dogfights.