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noobisoft
07-29-2008, 11:18 AM
Hello Gentlemen,

In flying the IL-2, I'm seeing some odd behavior with the rudder. Upon starting a new mission, I see from external view that the rudder is not centered, but is actually pointing several degrees to the left. I can trim it to be centered while on the ground just fine (~2 clicks right), however when in flight it goes back to several degrees left and responds to trim input only momentarily before going back to the same position several degrees left. Any ideas why this is and how to get the rudder to stay centered with neutral rudder input? Is this a designed flight model thing that I am mistaking for a flaw?

I use a twist stick, but the twist axis shows up as perfectly centered when in the neutral position using the in-game the calibration software tool. I have not studied to see if the problem occurs in other aircraft as I primarily fly the IL-2.

Cheers

Urufu_Shinjiro
07-29-2008, 11:30 AM
I'm not sure why it's returning to the slightly left position (perhaps you are using autopilot and that returns it) but it starts that way on purpose, all planes will have a certain amount of trim as set by the ground crew, planes that do not have pilot controlled trim will have trim set by ground crew for cruising speed.

jason_345
07-29-2008, 01:04 PM
noobisoft, does the problem with rudder-trim apply to any other aircraft as well?

By the way Urufu_Shinjiro, I have never heard of the ground-crew applying trim prior to an aircraft getting airbourne. I think there are enough problems without the mechanics having a stab at winding on trim?

Mind you, because I haven't heard of it does not necessarily mean that it does not happen in some squadrons.

Anyone else got any clues about that please?

regards

jason

Uufflakke
07-29-2008, 01:21 PM
Trim neutral is the / key.
Give it a try, maybe the rudder stays centered now.

Sturmtrooper
07-29-2008, 02:43 PM
By the way Urufu_Shinjiro, I have never heard of the ground-crew applying trim prior to an aircraft getting airbourne. I think there are enough problems without the mechanics having a stab at winding on trim?



jason, the Bf-109 series had trim tabs that had to be set prior to take-off. The pilot could not adjust those in flight.

I am pretty sure that it was the ground crew's responsibility to set those trim tabs.

I am also pretty sure that the 109 pilot would have a hard time climbing out of his plane and adjusting those tabs while in flight.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

noobisoft
07-29-2008, 05:35 PM
Thank you for your questions and suggestions gentlemen.

Urufu_Shinjiro, it's not related to the use of autopilot. Jason_345, based on just a quick survey, I see the issue with the B-239 (slightly right), I-185 (slightly right), IL-10 (slightly left), and IL-2 (slightly left). I couldn't confirm it with several other planes (P-47, P-40, La-5, La-7) in part because of the fact that there is not a portion of the fuselage under the rudder to use as a baseline for measurement on these planes. Uufflakke, the trim neutral key results in the initial observations, in other words, slightly off center for the above noted aircraft.

Cheers

WTE_Galway
07-29-2008, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by noobisoft:
Thank you for your questions and suggestions gentlemen.

Urufu_Shinjiro, it's not related to the use of autopilot. Jason_345, based on just a quick survey, I see the issue with the B-239 (slightly right), I-185 (slightly right), IL-10 (slightly left), and IL-2 (slightly left). I couldn't confirm it with several other planes (P-47, P-40, La-5, La-7) in part because of the fact that there is not a portion of the fuselage under the rudder to use as a baseline for measurement on these planes. Uufflakke, the trim neutral key results in the initial observations, in other words, slightly off center for the above noted aircraft.

Cheers

Well the fact that it is sometimes right and sometimes left rules out a centering problem with your pedals/twist axis.

crucislancer
07-29-2008, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by noobisoft:
Hello Gentlemen,

In flying the IL-2, I'm seeing some odd behavior with the rudder. Upon starting a new mission, I see from external view that the rudder is not centered, but is actually pointing several degrees to the left. I can trim it to be centered while on the ground just fine (~2 clicks right), however when in flight it goes back to several degrees left and responds to trim input only momentarily before going back to the same position several degrees left. Any ideas why this is and how to get the rudder to stay centered with neutral rudder input? Is this a designed flight model thing that I am mistaking for a flaw?

I use a twist stick, but the twist axis shows up as perfectly centered when in the neutral position using the in-game the calibration software tool. I have not studied to see if the problem occurs in other aircraft as I primarily fly the IL-2.

Cheers

Hi noobisoft,

The IL-2 series doesn't have pilot adjustable rudder trim, however the IL-10 does. Check out IL2 Functions (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=1740) on mission4today, its a spreadsheet with all the planes in the game, and what functions are usable, like the trim, mirrors, dives brakes, etc. Very handy to have.

I don't recall what speed the IL-2's rudder will be neutral, it's been a while since I flew one.

noobisoft
07-29-2008, 09:01 PM
Hi crucislancer, I'm curious, if the IL-2 doesn't have pilot adjustable rudder trim, why would the rudder physically move slightly to the left and right when I press "," and "." respectively and then go back to the original position when I press "/"?

Cheers

crucislancer
07-29-2008, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by noobisoft:
Hi crucislancer, I'm curious, if the IL-2 doesn't have pilot adjustable rudder trim, why would the rudder physically move slightly to the left and right when I press "," and "." respectively and then go back to the original position when I press "/"?

Cheers

Those keys are the default rudder controls for the keyboard:



Rudder Left Full (Yaw Left) Z
Rudder Right Full (Yaw Right) X
Rudder Left ,
Rudder Neutral /
Rudder Right .


Note that the Z and X send your rudder full left or full right, the comma and period is incremental.

Take a look at the controls.pdf that is in the IL-2 root folder. that will show you how the defaults are set up.

Here are the default rudder trim keys:



Rudder Trim Left Ctrl+Z
Rudder Trim Neutral Shift+Z or Shift+X
Rudder Trim Right Ctrl+X

noobisoft
07-30-2008, 08:08 AM
Thanks crucislancer, I'll try that tonight. The behavior I observed would be explained by my using the wrong keys for trim!! It may simply be a case of RTFM (Read The ******* Manual!)

jason_345
07-30-2008, 08:58 AM
Sturmtrooper: Many thanks for the information on trim-tabs. I did not know about the information you gave. It really would be a problem to wander around the outside of the tube when in flight!

And yes! They would have to set by the ground-crew. At least you have someone to blame when it all goes pear-shaped!

regards

jason

antiStalin
07-30-2008, 11:25 AM
Hi, do everyone know:

To make the take off easier, this time I tried to trim the rudder to the right by pressing Ctrl X a number of times before starting my engine to counter the torque effect. Strange. no response. The rudder remained neutral. However, my controls are on default settings. Therefore, I guessed it might be due to technical promblems of my hp notebook. To make things clearer, I installed the game to my desktop. Of course, the controls now are sure on the default settings. However, pressing Ctrl X a number of times to trim the rudder, the rudder still did not response, and remained neutral. Why?

"Nothing is very easy in this world. However, any circumstance that does not contain harship is no good as a beacon for human life." Master Cheng Yen

berg417448
07-30-2008, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by antiStalin:
Hi, do everyone know:

To make the take off easier, this time I tried to trim the rudder to the right by pressing Ctrl X a number of times before starting my engine to counter the torque effect. Strange. no response. The rudder remained neutral. However, my controls are on default settings. Therefore, I guessed it might be due to technical promblems of my hp notebook. To make things clearer, I installed the game to my desktop. Of course, the controls now are sure on the default settings. However, pressing Ctrl X a number of times to trim the rudder, the rudder still did not response, and remained neutral. Why?

"Nothing is very easy in this world. However, any circumstance that does not contain harship is no good as a beacon for human life." Master Cheng Yen

Which airplane? Many aircraft do not have pilot adjustable rudder trim.

antiStalin
08-22-2008, 12:34 PM
Dear All,

Considering a moderator's perspective, I'm going to change my name to "Juutilainen". I apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused.

"As soon as one forgives oneself, one begins to get lazy. Be alert at every moment." Master Cheng Yen