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Tozzifan
01-16-2005, 11:41 AM
I'm on the learning phase and, flying my first assignment as wingman, during the approaching flight to the bad guys I've distracted myself for 2 little seconds from the "cockpit" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif , enough to lose speed and bearing, being then unable to catch up with the leader again (engine overheating); the outcome: leader KIA, my self bailed out

apart from avoiding distraction http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, is there any way to manage this situation without discarding a mission?

Tozzifan
01-16-2005, 11:41 AM
I'm on the learning phase and, flying my first assignment as wingman, during the approaching flight to the bad guys I've distracted myself for 2 little seconds from the "cockpit" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif , enough to lose speed and bearing, being then unable to catch up with the leader again (engine overheating); the outcome: leader KIA, my self bailed out

apart from avoiding distraction http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, is there any way to manage this situation without discarding a mission?

Fennec_P
01-16-2005, 01:05 PM
Be the wingleader.

Why you'd subordinate yourself to this AI, I can't fathom.

At the very least, kill him before he scolds you for being out of formation.

Tozzifan
01-16-2005, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fennec_P:
......

At the very least, kill him before he scolds you for being out of formation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BSS_Vidar
01-16-2005, 01:30 PM
If you're burning up engines trying to catch up for just a few seconds of distraction, You are not the problem. Your lead is... A good flight lead never flies with full, or high throttle settings until the formation is split up for attack.

It is essential for a good lead to be aware of his surroundings, and leaving enough "throttle availability" for his flight. This is so they can manage to adjust maintaining their position on bearing line, i.e. proper formation.

Knowing to adjust power in formation turns due to each plane in the formation having different turn archs (whether the lead is on the inboard position or the outboard position) is paramount. I have written a guide for basic formation flying, which is embedded into our Carrier Qual guide. Easy reading text along with reference pictures are their for you to study.

http://www.blacksheep214.com/cq/cq.htm

If you're just wanting to learn about formation flying, click on "Bearing Line" over at the left side of the page.

Hope this helps both you, and the pilot you are flying off of.

S!

Latico
01-16-2005, 01:48 PM
I think he is reffering to keeping up with AI wingleaders in the offline campaigns. I've found them hard to keep up with at times as well.

I think the cruise speeds were set too high in some of those missions.

SeaFireLIV
01-16-2005, 01:51 PM
Formation flying was hard in real life. It takes time and a good knowledge of your aircraft. It took nearly all of a fighter pilot`s concentration just sticking with his leader in formation or even in a dogfight. If you read some accounts of WWII flights you`ll find this (the early formation flying of British pilots in WWII for example).

Now with AI it`s that bit harder because you can`t really communicate with him. What I found was really helpful was take off quickly after the leader (almost immediately), soon you`ll catch him up. Be always ready to adjust your speed while your with him. Always stay on his 4 oclock, behind and to his right. Check your map so you know when the next turn is due be.

When you enter a furball then it`s really hard to keep your eyes on your leader and have a situation awareness of what`s happening. Again, this is realistic and really just takes time to learn. This is why I like seeing an AI 109 sticking to his wingman while I come up behind him - I`m aware that he`s simulating the concentration of following his leader and so may not see me.

As further proof of this consider the Human online pilot flying in a dogfight. I`ve done this many times as a Wingman and it is extremely hard trying to keep with him even on comms. It takes a lot of practise and is much easier once you get to understand your leader`s flying style.

Anyway, as for offline, try to keep a watch on your wingleader, once you enter a furball just attack any enemy that appears to threaten any friendly and do your bit. Don`t worry about staying with your leader at all. If he gets in trouble, he`ll call, and if you can then try and find him.

I`ve flown a good few years now and generally, I have a good idea of how many bogeys are on us, whether we are winning or losing and if there are even more bogeys heading our way.
It really is practise, but can be done.

Tozzifan
01-16-2005, 04:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Latico:
I think he is reffering to keeping up with AI wingleaders in the offline campaigns. I've found them hard to keep up with at times as well.

I think the cruise speeds were set too high in some of those missions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, offline http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BSS_Vidar, thank you for the link

BSS_Vidar
01-17-2005, 11:15 AM
Ah... Off line campaigns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Yeah, those leads do tend to cruise too fast. If you should ever join a squadron, teach'em what you've learned here and show them how to fly proper formation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

FYI: The guide I wrote in that link isn't just something I made up. It's based on my 20 years of flying carrier aviation. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

dieg777
01-17-2005, 12:36 PM
here is some info
look under wingman tactics

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Tailspin/index.htm

generally I try to stay 500m to 800m higher and slightly behind leader offline this gives me time to react and a slight hight advantage on typical merges.

good luck

horseback
01-17-2005, 02:18 PM
What are you flying? Do you use Complex Engine Management? Are you using your radiator flap settings, or are you leaving them in the default position(automatic for the 109/190, closed for almost everyone else)? Opening your radiator flaps a bit can alleviate the overheating problems in most cases.

If you're flying LW, are you controlling prop pitch, or letting the Real-Life automatic controls take care of that? If you're not, most Allied types require a prop pitch control, and keeping the pitch at 100% most of the time is easiest, but wastes a lot of fuel.

What kind of rudder control inputs are you using? When your leader is one of those gyrating all over the sky types, you have to use a lot of rudder, and you have to keep a constant movement on the throttle too.

You probably need to keep up with your elevator trim as well, if you fly anything other than an I-16/-153.

Basically, though, the AI 'leaders' and 'wingmen' you fly with have two main goals: to run you out of gas and overheat your engine. Their secondary goals are to collide with you, or failing that, to steal credit for your kills. Treat them accordingly, and you'll soon develop the necessary skills.

cheers

horseback