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View Full Version : Torque and P on takeoff



Ruderdyne
10-27-2005, 09:53 PM
Forgive me if it's been brought up already, but:

Torque and P factor were HUGE factors in directional control during takeoff on the high HP aircraft, such as the P-51 and P-47. I understand that these effects were so prevelant that full takeoff power had to be delayed during the initial takeoff roll until sufficient air was going over the rudder. A P-47 pilot once described to me that they simply advanced the throttle until the right rudder hit the stops. Then as the airplane accelerated and the rudder gained effectiveness, they would start feeding in the rest of the power as required to track centerline.

This characteristic facinates me, but this sim doesn't see to reproduce it very well at all. Any comments?

Ruder

p1ngu666
10-27-2005, 10:33 PM
try a il2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Ugly_Kid
10-27-2005, 10:58 PM
I think that's typical. 109 had similar tendency - famous Krupinski method was to apply full rudder and regulate the "swing" and direction with throttle - I heard from somewhere that the guy who flies Messerschmitt foundation's G-6 goes by this method. FW 190 used to be somewhat like this in the previous patch, now it's little bit brought down, you won't "run out of rudder", anymore with higher power...

One shouldn't mix the groundhandling with flying though. For example B-239 was characterized as being rock solid on the ground and the landing gear got a lot of praise by Finns - old Brewster pilots were somewhat let down with 109 in this respect - in the game we see the opposite. However, this is the ground handling and I don't see that it indicates/prooves the FM being off in the same order of magnitude. The latter is much more important for me.

p1ngu666
10-27-2005, 11:27 PM
indeed ugly, the bufflo is rather odd and scary ingame.

is the 109 still extremely easy to take off and land? i havent flown one in 402 yet i think :\

think some others have scary handling, but i cant think of them currently

ClubAstir
10-28-2005, 03:13 AM
Yep, the 109 is pretty docile. It does have a slight tendency to pull to the left (iirc) on take-off, but it really is not difficult.
I suppose it should be harder to handle on the ground, but I do agree with Ugly_Kid on that the flight characteristics are much more important than taxiing, it is a flying simulator/game after all.

VVS-Manuc
10-28-2005, 03:35 AM
the F 4 F was known for it's tendency to ground loop. Where is it? Not in this game.
The Buffalo is easy to handle and take off, when you just use the first stage of the flaps, not the take off setting.
The torque effects on the Buffalo seems to be the only ones which are modelled correctly in this game.
Taxing and ground handling is important even in flight simulator...

nakamura_kenji
10-28-2005, 03:56 AM
buffalo the only plane game can get torue roll >_<

Ruderdyne
11-01-2005, 06:30 PM
My post wasn't about directional stability, really. All taildraggers are intrinsically directionally unstable to some degree anytime the main gear is on the ground and the airplane is in motion. It's like trying to balance a broomstick on your finger.

My point was that big horsepower airplanes were practically uncontrollable in the first stages of takeoff if you just cobbed the engine, due to torque. i.e., no amount of rudder or differential braking could keep you heading for the weeds (in the direction of the torque effect).

As for the importance of ground characteristics vs flight characteristics--they are really one and the same. Aerodynamics and physics don't change the moment you are airborne. If the physics are inaccurate on the ground, they are probably correspondingly inaccurate in the air. In this case, the effect of torque is almost certainly underestimated in the low speed regimes. I notice a discussion of torque at low airspeeds was brought up in a earlier post, incidentally. Same subject.

Cheers,
ruder

p1ngu666
11-01-2005, 10:24 PM
the sim is probably if u invert/reverse everything u know/read

the yaks have a decent amount of torque aswell, the 9s tend to handle poorly. i flew a yak then soon after a la7. the difference is AMAZING. yak u really haveto fight and coax the plane around in turns, lift off is alarming. La7, big chunk of extra power, in a radial, this should be worse right....

naff all torque, and in turns it just does them, no worries!

someone on the server moaned that the late 109s have too much torque http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. he was compairing it to the la7...

JG5_UnKle
11-02-2005, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
someone on the server moaned that the late 109s have too much torque http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif. he was compairing it to the la7...

LMAO that's a good one... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Ruderdyne
11-02-2005, 01:07 PM
the sim is probably if u invert/reverse everything u know/read

This sim is probably! I totally agree. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
11-05-2005, 07:38 AM
probably right, i ment
i tend to leave words out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif