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spitzfiya
05-17-2005, 09:10 PM
I've owned IL-2 Sturmovik Gold Pack for awhile now but i never really got into it untill recently. After i read the book "Fighter Squadron" by Wing Commander Dizzy Alen (Story about the experiences of a WW2 Spitfire pilot in the Battle Of Britian) I became very interested in WW2 Fighters and Dogfighting in general. I just picked up Pacific Fighters today and i'm almost ready to play online.

IL-2 has an insane learning curve. I remember when i first tried to turn a Spitfire and i kept stalling, for the longest time i couldn't figure out why an aircraft would do this in a simple turn. I was frusturated because i used to play Fighter Ace 2 a long time ago and i remember turning was alot easier. I guess this is how real aircraft handle...kind of a sad realization of physics but i guess i can get used to it (In combat i forget about stalling and it's very annoying, especially when trying to climb)

I'm currently reading alot of material on the subject of air combat and manuvers (From landing to gunnery) and I find it all very interesting. Sometimes it's alot to take in but it's really fun to acctually put these things into practice. I can land and takeoff, I can shoot down 3 enemy B-17 in quick mission builder with infinite ammo and not get shot down. The only thing left now is Traffic patters, advanced Combat manuvers, Aiming + Gunnery (Deflection and snapshot shooting), Dogfighting experience, and online play. The first time i went online i got shot down 3 times within the span of 10 minutes, my only kill was when i ran up the *** of a P-51...

*Sigh* I've never really been good at any game, But i am extremly willing to kick some major *** in IL-2 when i figure it all out. This game is ALL SKILL %100, thats what makes it a fun challenge.

It's gunna be a long road ahead but I'm feeling rather determined.

So hello everybody, tell me where you guys play and punch some holes in my Spit sometime, I'm a flying brick with the grace of a 3 legged elephant...

spitzfiya
05-17-2005, 09:10 PM
I've owned IL-2 Sturmovik Gold Pack for awhile now but i never really got into it untill recently. After i read the book "Fighter Squadron" by Wing Commander Dizzy Alen (Story about the experiences of a WW2 Spitfire pilot in the Battle Of Britian) I became very interested in WW2 Fighters and Dogfighting in general. I just picked up Pacific Fighters today and i'm almost ready to play online.

IL-2 has an insane learning curve. I remember when i first tried to turn a Spitfire and i kept stalling, for the longest time i couldn't figure out why an aircraft would do this in a simple turn. I was frusturated because i used to play Fighter Ace 2 a long time ago and i remember turning was alot easier. I guess this is how real aircraft handle...kind of a sad realization of physics but i guess i can get used to it (In combat i forget about stalling and it's very annoying, especially when trying to climb)

I'm currently reading alot of material on the subject of air combat and manuvers (From landing to gunnery) and I find it all very interesting. Sometimes it's alot to take in but it's really fun to acctually put these things into practice. I can land and takeoff, I can shoot down 3 enemy B-17 in quick mission builder with infinite ammo and not get shot down. The only thing left now is Traffic patters, advanced Combat manuvers, Aiming + Gunnery (Deflection and snapshot shooting), Dogfighting experience, and online play. The first time i went online i got shot down 3 times within the span of 10 minutes, my only kill was when i ran up the *** of a P-51...

*Sigh* I've never really been good at any game, But i am extremly willing to kick some major *** in IL-2 when i figure it all out. This game is ALL SKILL %100, thats what makes it a fun challenge.

It's gunna be a long road ahead but I'm feeling rather determined.

So hello everybody, tell me where you guys play and punch some holes in my Spit sometime, I'm a flying brick with the grace of a 3 legged elephant...

FlatSpinMan
05-17-2005, 09:19 PM
Welcome to the club http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif.It is a pretty unforgiving game but it sounds likeyou are getting prepared well. For online stuff, google "Hyperlobby", and download and install teh programme. It is safe,reliable, easy to use and is where anyone who's anyone flies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

================================================

Bearcat99
05-17-2005, 09:25 PM
Welcome aboard.. hit the Essentials link in my sig.

Freelancer-1
05-17-2005, 09:42 PM
Hi and welcome, spitzfiya.

Listen to Bearcat, there's a wealth of knowledge behind that link!

BTW, love your sig.

spitzfiya
05-17-2005, 11:38 PM
Thanks guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I got my first kill but nothing caught fire or broke off. Usually when i get shot down my wing always falls off or im on fire...a short burst from the enemy seems to be all it takes. Stalling in high speed turns is getting extremly annoying...

How do people turn so freakin fast? Should i turn at slower speeds?

Sturmtrooper
05-18-2005, 12:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Stalling in high speed turns is getting extremly annoying...

How do people turn so freakin fast? Should i turn at slower speeds?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes and no.

First of all,know the aircraft that you are flying like the back of your hand.Know it's stall speed,it's best rate of climb,etc....

Also,having a force feedback joystick is really helpful because it lets you "feel" the approach of a stall.In most aircraft that is. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But as far as speed goes,the slower you fly,the tighter your turning radius will be.Combat flaps will help too.However,if you are too slow,not enough lift,...STALL ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

And of course the faster you are flying,the wider your turning radius will be.

Remember though,you are in a 3-dimensional enviroment.So as you turn you can put the nose down and gain speed (kinda like a split-S),turn and pull the nose up and you bleed off your speed (kinda like a chandelle).

Best advice:

Pick one plane that you feel comfortable in and get to know her inside and out.Learn her flight characteristics.
Learn to "dance" with her. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif
She will love you back. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Freelancer-1
05-18-2005, 12:44 AM
Take a Cobra out for a spin (no pun intended).

Once you get a handle on that baby you'll be able to turn inside most anything you will come up against.

It's my favorite ride.

For tips on how to fly it just type "CivilDog" into the search box. Nobody seems to know more than that guy when it comes to a P-39. Lots of posts to be found.

-HH-Quazi
05-18-2005, 01:22 AM
M8, you are going to be a bucket full of questions. And these m8's here are the right bunch to ask. Asking questions will not lessen the learning curve, but actually taking notes and implementing their advise will. Stands to reason eh? So ask questions. And do as you have already been advised to do, pick a plane and learn it. If you are like myself, it took me several weeks to decide which ac I really wanted to learn first because I knew once I chose that one plane that I would strap myself to it and fly nothing else. Before too long, maybe 2 to 3 months, (this is dependant upon how many hours a day you are able to spend learning the first ac you chose to learn), you might find yourself interested in another ac. This time you will find the learning curve not as steep because the basics follow you to whatever ac you decide to fly. Fly each aircraft to its strengths and know its weaknesses. And when you feel comfortable around these m8's and the community, and you know you have the time to commit to it, find yourself a squadron to join. Flying with a bunch of m8's and using a communications server to speak in real time with them all is a hoot. And a big advantage in being taught tactics by m8's that have allot of experience. Bottom line here m8 is that this game is a whole new world. And welcome to it!

spitzfiya
05-18-2005, 02:27 AM
1) What is the best Mark of Spitfire to use for Dogfighting?

2) What are the most popular Dogfighting aircraft?

3) It's very difficult to get away from someones line of fire quickly without stalling. Usually ill end up in a straight line anyways because i'm failing to turn and just flopping about... What do you guys usually do?

1) Should i be using the Cannon and Machine gun at the same time? Should i alternate them? is there certain situations to use eithier?

3) I often finding myself turning extremly slow to avoid stalls in any direction...This is baaad but so is stalling. How do you guys do your turning? at what angle would you do a tight combat turn?

Atomic_Marten
05-18-2005, 02:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spitzfiya:
1) What is the best Mark of Spitfire to use for Dogfighting?

2) What are the most popular Dogfighting aircraft?

3) It's very difficult to get away from someones line of fire quickly without stalling. Usually ill end up in a straight line anyways because i'm failing to turn and just flopping about... What do you guys usually do?

1) Should i be using the Cannon and Machine gun at the same time? Should i alternate them? is there certain situations to use eithier?

3) I often finding myself turning extremely slow to avoid stalls in any direction...This is baaad but so is stalling. How do you guys do your turning? at what angle would you do a tight combat turn? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/images/smiles/welcome.gif
1) Spitfire MK.8CW.
You can not mistake with MK.9 either. I reccomend 4x.303 versions over 2x12,7mm versions. It is far easier to hit because of 2 more guns. Yes they are weaker but in turnfight you should be fairly close to your opponent.
You can use Hispano cannon to 'snipe' enemy fighter if he tries to run away from battle. It is very good weapon in that role.

One thing also; you can leave your gun convergence for cannons on 500m, but for MGs set it to lower values (~200-250m) -- you can't really expect to do any significant damage with .303s over that range. That is if you are using .303s.

2) KI84C is my favourite although it is not *reccomended* that you go into pure turnfights with. It is not the best turning aircraft in game. I'd say that in pure turn fight Spitfire is the best in my experience, because in first - second turn you can make a difference. After that all is in energy management. Try also LA7 (fairly reliable aircraft in all areas) and Yak-3 (I have seen folks that are doing miracles with it -- some of them even said that 3P is the best.. but.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).
Try also Bf-109G-10, and Bf-109G6AS (if for nothing else than for cannon http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif). They can turn good also in medium speeds. Use combat/take off flaps on Bf-109s a lot.

And also, don't turn with 110% power all the time -- you will get outturned - sometimes it is smart to drop your speed a bit for tighter turn. Like some of guys above already suggested. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Oh and yes, the reason why everyone is outturning you is because you have selected 100% fuel. That counts also. Use 25% on Spitfire always when you plan to dogfight.

)) Use cannons and MGs together. Why not? Just hit with them. The recoil on Spitfire is not great so you shouldn't have problems with aiming (if you wonder what I'm talkin' about try Yak-9K with NS45 -- you'll know what I mean when I say 'recoil' effect).

))About turning -- most effective with Spitfire is on medium speeds you turn like comet if you keep the speed up. Deploy flaps if needed. I like vertical turn with Spitfire very much especially when entering dogfight. Otherwise in turn I tend to keep my nose slightly down because of energy saving as much as possible, but there is no really any rule about this. Whatever works use it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Good luck

ImpStarDuece
05-18-2005, 03:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spitzfiya:
1) What is the best Mark of Spitfire to use for Dogfighting? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Depends on the opponent and the situation. What alt, what speed, is the bad guy faster or slower, is he in a turner or a boomer.

In a classic slow speed turn fight the basic Spiftfire Vb or L.F. Vb (thats the low alt dedicated version) are probably the best turners of all versions. They are a little slow though so if your going up against anything past a 1943 bird it will be like being a boxer with arms that are too short.

However, below about 320 kph the Spitfire Vb is the best turner of the bunch. It does tend to lose out above this speed though.

Personally I like the VIII without clipped wings. Not quite as good a turner as the Vb or even the IX but it tends to hang just a little better through the turns and dives and rolls much better. Mostly though I fly fast (450 kph plus) and I feel the VIII is better at high speed.

The clipped wing birds have a bit more speed down low, a bit more acceleration and a lot better roll. It also feels to me like they handle high speed dives a smidge better. If your going to fight below 6600 feet (2000 m) then a Cclipped wing IXc or IXe is probably the best in that regieme. At alt's above about 4000m though their climb and turn suffer

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 2) What are the most popular Dogfighting aircraft? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Spitfires are the current darling of the dogfighting crowd, La-7s, Yak-3s, Ki-81s and 109G-10s,K-4s and G6A/S are all very popular though. The Corsair and Mustang have a smaller following in the dogfight rooms as does the 190A and D and the P-40. Zeros and Ki-61s pop up very occasionally as well.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 3) It's very difficult to get away from someones line of fire quickly without stalling. Usually ill end up in a straight line anyways because i'm failing to turn and just flopping about... What do you guys usually do? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lots of things, getting out of the line of fire is the other half of ACM. Go to airwarfare.com or search the essential for Newcomers thread for some really good guides to ACM (Air Combat Manouvering). Personally, moves like the Split-S, Hammerhead, Chandell and Scissors work. If you don't know what these are they are just fancy names for moves you are probably already doing but look them up. Remember that turning in circles will get you killed. Air fighting is about doing what your opponent doesn't expect or anticipate. Speed is also esential, try to force you opponent to burn his while you retain yours.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 1) Should i be using the Cannon and Machine gun at the same time? Should i alternate them? is there certain situations to use eithier? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Use them both at the same time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif. If you have a 'bounce' on an opponent or have caught them in an unfavourable position do you really want to waste that chance by not using all your firepower? A to A combat should be butchery, kill or be killed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 3) I often finding myself turning extremly slow to avoid stalls in any direction...This is baaad but so is stalling. How do you guys do your turning? at what angle would you do a tight combat turn? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try not too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ok, thats a silly answer but try and stay fast. If your behind someone and they turn sharply you don't have to follow them, wasting all your speed; go vertical, change that energy you would of wasted in a turn into height. Do a low or high yo-yo or an Immelman (climbing 180) and then drop in on your opponent when they have burnt all of their energy turning in circles.

I'm not a great pilot but I have picked up a few tricks in the last 6 months playing online.

Practice, practice, practice. Learn 1 bird in and out before you really try to bacome sucessful online. The QMB and even the FMB are your friends. All my offline time is 'practice' for my time online. Patiece, discipline and a open mind are all great allies in getting kills on line.

spitzfiya
05-18-2005, 04:22 AM
Thanks alot guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've been using the Spitfire MK III for awhile because i noticed it's slighty more responsive and a bit faster then the other Marks.

This whole Energy and speed thing is starting to make sense. I'm staying fast more often.

I got another kill, not just a lucky shot eithier, a long winded battle with alot of twisting and turning. I even watched it bury itself 10 feet under ground. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ahhh the bliss of dogfighting, reminds me of the Fighter Ace II servers on the Zone a long time ago...

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-18-2005, 06:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spitzfiya:
Thanks alot guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've been using the Spitfire MK III for awhile... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Spit MKIII?



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ahhh the bliss of dogfighting, reminds me of the Fighter Ace II servers on the Zone a long time ago... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hehe...As you're finding out, this game is nothing like FighterAce.

If Fighterace is my cruddy celeron desktop here at work, then FB:AEP:PF is the Cyberdyne brain in the Terminator series.


TB

PBNA-Boosher
05-18-2005, 06:51 AM
He means the VIII, Thunderbolt

jessi1
05-18-2005, 08:11 AM
Learn to fight with energy, saving energy and knowing when to use it will help you out when the need for it arrives. Fly a plane you like and stick to it untill you know the ins and out of it, also check your pitch and roll settings in the hardware/input section you might have it set to high values making flyin difficult and stalls common, best to start with low values p=2,4,9,15 etc and roll=1,4,9,16 etc, good luck and welcome to the addiction its worse than crack(so ive heard) see you online(on your six hehe).

spitzfiya
05-18-2005, 10:12 PM
1) What is the optimum climb Speed/Take off speed/Landing speed for the Spitfire VIII?

2) My Spitfire is always rolling to the right when in level flight, ctrl + left arrow isn't doing anything.

3) Do you guys know of a guide on combat manuevers in relationship to IL-2 with lots of diagrams?

The Eastern Skies user guide isn't finished.

4)Do you guys fly in "Wide Mode" with no cockpit?

5)Why does the MK VIII have 4 Machine guns 2 cannons whereas the IX only has 2 Machine guns and 2 cannons?

6)What is the correct way to BnZ?

Atomic_Marten
05-18-2005, 10:44 PM
For most of your answers click on the link on Bearcat99's sig. Plenty of information and sites (Sturmovik essentials).

Also be sure to visit airwarfare.com IL-2/FB/AEP/PF sections. A *LOT* (tons) of various info.

spitzfiya
05-18-2005, 10:50 PM
I don't like how Airwarfare is organized (or not organized). Some good stuff on Joysticks + deflection gunnery tho...

http://il2flying is preety good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ImpStarDuece
05-18-2005, 11:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by spitzfiya:
1) What is the optimum climb Speed/Take off speed/Landing speed for the Spitfire VIII? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Optimum climb speed is about 250 kph, maybe a touch higher. HOWEVER, you should look at the best relative climb speed. For example my main ride is the P-47 and its best climb speed is about 280-290 kph. However, relative to its main opponents (109G and 190A) it doesn't climb better until over 400 kph.

Optimum climb speed is really only there if you have no-one else around and feel like doing nothing but climb or have to intecept a high flying bandit. Its better to find a good trade off between speed (so you have some energy if you get bounced) and climb. I usually climb around 320-250 kph.

Takeoff; the Spitifre will lift off very easily at anything above 200 kph. I think you can try and pull it off the ground about 160 kph and still be sucessful as long as you are gentle.

Landings; not my speciality. I usually land quite 'hot' i.e. fast. I come in at about 260-280 kph at a very gentle slope with very low throttle. I glide down until about 200m out, dump landing flaps, throttle to 0, point the gunsight pipper at the end of the runway and float foward aiming to put my front wheels down at about 180 kph. I let it run along the runway on the front gear and bleed a little speed before bleeding a little speed then release the foward pressure on the stick and ease the tail wheel down. Simple but it gives you quite a long landing roll.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 2) My Spitfire is always rolling to the right when in level flight, ctrl + left arrow isn't doing anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find this too, if you get an answer, let me know

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 3) Do you guys know of a guide on combat manuevers in relationship to IL-2 with lots of diagrams? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check the Essentials link in Bearcat99s signature. There are a heap out there, i'll post some when I get home from the office.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 4)Do you guys fly in "Wide Mode" with no cockpit? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I generally fly cockpit on http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

However, my take on things related to the views is this; 'wide' view is similar to 'search' view, you use it for looking around and finding targets/identifying threats.

'Normal' view I use as my 'fighting' view, when I have a target in sight and want to press the trigger this is what I use.

'Narrow' view is my 'focus' view, I use it for trying to identify dots or low detail models (LODs) when flying in icon off servers (which is most of the time). I also use it to pick out ground targets, particularly in the clutter of a city or if friendly forces are close by.

If I have to snipe at a bomber or have a target that I want to hit but is very far away (&gt;500m) I will also use the 'narrow' view

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 5)Why does the MK VIII have 4 Machine guns 2 cannons whereas the IX only has 2 Machine guns and 2 cannons? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spitfires are confusing! Well, the wealth of wing, engine, body, tail, armament and sub-types are. It is rewarding to do some reading though.

OK. The Spitfire came with several wing types that evolved with the design. The 'A' wing was the basic wing used on the Spitfire I and II in the Battle of Britain. It contains 8 .303 machine guns with about 350-400 rpg

The 'B' wing used on the spifire MK V introduces the Hispano II 20mm cannon with 60 rpg and reduces the number of .303s to 4 with 350 rpg.

The 'C' wing, or 'universal' wing can carry several different optione. Either 4 Hispanos with either a drum mounting of 60 rpg or the more common belting mounting of 120 rpg OR 2 Hispanos with 120 rpg and 4 .303s with 350 rpg. The 'C' wing appears on the Spitfire Vc, VIIc, IXc and I think the XIV. Most commonly the 2x 20mm and 4x .303 was used, mostly for weight reasons. I think the 'C' wing also introduce metal alierons.

The 'E' wing was modified to carry the US M2 .50 Calibre heavy machine gun with 250 rpg as well as 2 Hispanos with 125 rpg. It appeared on the IXe and was designed to give better harmony between the ballistics of the weapons the Spitfire mounted and give better punch at range that the .50 cal delivered.

So your VIIIc has a 'C' type wing and the IXc has a 'C' type wing and the IXe has a 'E' type wing. Hence the difference.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 6)What is the correct way to BnZ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The basics; fly very high, very fast and stay straight.

Its a lot more complicated than that. You could fill thread after thread with how to do it right. Essentially though you want to enter the fight on your terms, with significant altitude and speed advantages over your opponent. You then approach from the rear or an off angle, fire a burst at close range, angle off slightly and either go under them and then climb or pull out gently and climb.

B'n'Z is all about smoothness, patience and preparation. The best bounce you can perform is when you are moving at 700 kph, on a target doing half that, and you are diving down on it without him knowing that your there.

B'n'Z fighters are generally fast but inferior turners. Real men fly in straight lines!

Remember that if you are flying cockpit off servers than B'n'Z is a LOT harder; fights are generally lower, slower and opponents have those arrows and usually exteranls to show them if you are inbound.

Freelancer-1
05-18-2005, 11:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> 2) My Spitfire is always rolling to the right when in level flight, ctrl + left arrow isn't doing anything. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try your rudder trim instead of aileron trim. Play with the rudder until the slip/skid ball is centered in level flight. If your rudder trim is off you will drop a wing and it looks like an aileron problem. It took me forever to figure this one out.

Taylortony
05-19-2005, 07:13 AM
that is correct the secondary effects of yaw is roll.................... if you still start to stall in a tight turn drop some flap then when round the bend, like a lot of people in here, put em up again, but beware if you are moving like an Indian after a really bad curry you might jam them out.....only use at lower speeds