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View Full Version : 4.01m FM easier than in 4.0m..is it true?



Tvrdi
06-15-2005, 02:23 PM
as i heard that in HL....if this is true I guess its a big step back to the arcade when compared to 4.0..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

msalama
06-15-2005, 02:29 PM
That's what I heard too... well, as an off-liner I really don't have too much to worry about. I'll just continue with v.4.00...

Bearcat99
06-15-2005, 02:30 PM
Back to the arcade? When has this sim ever been arcade?

JG54_Arnie
06-15-2005, 02:30 PM
Hm, didnt notice too much of a change yet.. lets just play it first... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

msalama
06-15-2005, 02:42 PM
It has never been arcade Bearcat... but these rumours _are_ a bit unsettling nevertheless http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

But what the hey - let's just let the dust settle 1st before installing v.4.01 I say...

NonWonderDog
06-15-2005, 03:06 PM
It's kind of odd. The Bf-109 has every bit as much torque as before, but the mustang seems rather tame now.

Most odd.

Tvrdi
06-15-2005, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Tvrdi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Back to the arcade? When has this sim ever been arcade?


Bear, lets say I used metaphorical talk http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif....of course that il2 was an arcade...with first il2 release back then in 2001.....later this sim became better and better and was/is far away from arcade http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I agree with msalama..let the dust...

btw msalama ur missing great fun in online dogs....PF offline is very boring compared to online.....

ill download tomorrow 4.01m at work (because im at home right now and since its late here and my con is not very fast i cant d it)... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

geetarman
06-15-2005, 03:19 PM
Gee, maybe (if it's true) it's because there was a problem with the FM of certain planes in 4.0.

SeaFireLIV
06-15-2005, 03:19 PM
Sounds like collective hysteria to me. One guy says there`s an imperceptible change and cos noone can tell the diff they all jump on the bandwagon. The old `Emperor`s New Clothes` rubbish.

I see no change at all.

LStarosta
06-15-2005, 03:26 PM
Believe it or not, if you fly in real life, you consider IL2 to be arcade.

crazyivan1970
06-15-2005, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Sounds like collective hysteria to me. One guy says there`s an imperceptible change and cos noone can tell the diff they all jump on the bandwagon. The old `Emperor`s New Clothes` rubbish.

I see no change at all.

I am staring to think the same thing mate... i wish time would go faster so i can get my hands on it (401) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG54_Arnie
06-15-2005, 03:39 PM
Indeed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Most weird.. especially since its only just out.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

FW, 109 and yak seem the same to me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Nothing new.

SeaFireLIV
06-15-2005, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Sounds like collective hysteria to me. One guy says there`s an imperceptible change and cos noone can tell the diff they all jump on the bandwagon. The old `Emperor`s New Clothes` rubbish.

I see no change at all.

I am staring to think the same thing mate... i wish time would go faster so i can get my hands on it (401) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I must apologise. Something DOES appear different. I`ve only just started flying the P39, so i couldn`t tell the difference with that.

I`ve Started flying the Spitfire VB which the plane I`ve been flying A LOT with 4.00 and on takeoff this plane would DIP and BEND it`s prop. In 4.00 on FULL SPEED I can`t drop the spit nose any more. It won`t dip anymore. I tried this several times. It seems something maybe different.

I`m only saying what I`ve seen with the Spit, haven`t flown the others enough to tell. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

SeaFireLIV
06-15-2005, 03:49 PM
I may do a complete clean reinstall. Maybe putting it over 4.00 is not good.

Chuck_Older
06-15-2005, 03:55 PM
Oh goody! I see we've started with the whole "harder is more realistic" hogwash again

crazyivan1970
06-15-2005, 03:58 PM
SeaFire, no need to reinstall. 4.0 and 4.1 are identical. Only files.sfs was modified.

Stackhouse25th
06-15-2005, 04:00 PM
it has changes to it, so that it doesnt seem very non realistic. Some of the spins were ******ed.

Hunde_3.JG51
06-15-2005, 04:50 PM
Seafire, the "official" supreme ruler of everywhere does not need to apologize.....sir http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I just heard crazyivan officially announced we are getting another expansion pack. WooHoo, life is good!

crazyivan1970
06-15-2005, 04:50 PM
I did not!!

Hunde_3.JG51
06-15-2005, 04:51 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif sorry CI, actually it was just meant as a joke for you with all of the hysteria/chaos and such. I guess I better be careful what I say, just might make more problems with people demanding an add-on and claiming you and Oleg cheated them.

carguy_
06-15-2005, 04:53 PM
The plane no longer has it`s own life and bad habits.I on`t know if this is closer to realism but I don`t like it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Fliegeroffizier
06-15-2005, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
SeaFire, no need to reinstall. 4.0 and 4.1 are identical. Only files.sfs was modified.

These threads drive me Crazy!! S0, if only the files.sfs file is changed, as has been reported in several places, then there can be NO changes in FM, correct? So how do these guys come up with their 'reports' of changed performance..i.e., the Spits(and other acft) in 4.0 doing the nose dip if throttle is advanced too quickly but in 4.01 that FM feature is supposedly gone??? Or the other report, that the torque is changed????

It makes NO sense.

SeaFireLIV
06-15-2005, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
SeaFire, no need to reinstall. 4.0 and 4.1 are identical. Only files.sfs was modified.

oops. Too late. Already did! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif But it appears ok now. My Spits torquing and bending the prop on takeoff if I go too fast.

NorrisMcWhirter
06-15-2005, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Fliegeroffizier:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
SeaFire, no need to reinstall. 4.0 and 4.1 are identical. Only files.sfs was modified.

These threads drive me Crazy!! S0, if only the files.sfs file is changed, as has been reported in several places, then there can be NO changes in FM, correct? So how do these guys come up with their 'reports' of changed performance..i.e., the Spits(and other acft) in 4.0 doing the nose dip if throttle is advanced too quickly but in 4.01 that FM feature is supposedly gone??? Or the other report, that the torque is changed????

It makes NO sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A decent changelog would make sense of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

crazyivan1970
06-15-2005, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Fliegeroffizier:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
SeaFire, no need to reinstall. 4.0 and 4.1 are identical. Only files.sfs was modified.

These threads drive me Crazy!! S0, if only the files.sfs file is changed, as has been reported in several places, then there can be NO changes in FM, correct? So how do these guys come up with their 'reports' of changed performance..i.e., the Spits(and other acft) in 4.0 doing the nose dip if throttle is advanced too quickly but in 4.01 that FM feature is supposedly gone??? Or the other report, that the torque is changed????

It makes NO sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

files.sfs is responcibe for FM.. there were some corrections made to couple of planes. not to all as everyone says.

VFS-22_SPaRX
06-15-2005, 05:55 PM
A change log would be induce worse whining then we have now. What Oleg does currently is just right.

"We fine tuned xxx to help deal with xxx"

Can you imagine if he actually told us what he did to make the changes? Remember, this isnt a spread sheet FM. It a calculated FM. So if the equations are not working proplerly with manufacturers data, then Oleg would need to more then likely change that data. So if the manufacture says that the engine in the spit created x amount of torque and Oleg changed it to y to make the spit fly more realistic with the FM calcs. Can you imagine what people would say?

"OMG OLEG!!!!!! You are a SPIT LOVER. YOU LOWERED THE SPITS TORQUE, BUT DID NOT DO THE SAME FOR THE FW? WHAT GIVES? YOU ARE A SPIT OVER AND AN FW HATER!!!!!"

Oleg releases patches and informs us just fine right now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S~

Hoarmurath
06-15-2005, 06:11 PM
F4U corsair, torque toned down... greatly....

You can play with the throttle as you like, even at low speed, the plane will not roll because of torque.

The more patch we have, the more this game look like a big joke.

F19_Orheim
06-15-2005, 06:35 PM
Yet another reason the one responsible for leaking 4.0 should get his fingers cut off. If it hadn't leaked we wouldn't have had this infantile whimpering (Well, as much anyway). What are you guys? 3 years old and lost your lollypop????? Flightsimmers to me always seems a bit more mature than FPS-gamers, at least older, but I am starting to wonder. I comfort myself that the majority of simmers don't post here and are quite happy. The whiners seems to be same ole same ole, too bad noone takes them seriously anymore (or should I say THANK GOD)... but you still have the power to aggrevate me. I guess maybe that is one of the reasons you keep doing it... well, doesn't make you one bit more mature...

Tvrdi
06-16-2005, 01:23 AM
so they touched few planes and others are the same like they were in 4.0? Sparx, Oleg favourite is P39 and yours is spit..and YES he lowered spits torque - but only because this plane is an ENTRANCE for the f newcomers....I can suck this WTH - anyway i luv this sim from the beginning

ploughman
06-16-2005, 01:42 AM
Did Ivan just deny a made up patch rumour? So when's it out then?

Really, really like the v4 FM.

GAU-8
06-16-2005, 01:53 AM
i wont say its easier, but a HUGE difference in the way the P-39 flies! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

4.0

rudder input was like it was on a pendulum. hit RIGHT, and ease off, and it just pivoted around ..

flat spins out of non-existance are gone. i was in a light to moderate DIVE, pushed the stick downward some more, (not much at all actually)to increase some speed, YUP...dropped a wing, and faced a perfectly flat spin. this wasnt random. several tests repeated the same occurance, at differng speeds.

at NO point was a spin, or flat spin recoverable at almost any height..the aircraft would be nose down, and slowing, but never recoverable.

4.01

rudder "feel" is much better, allthough not easy, but lacking the "see-saw" effect.

not a spin cycle washing machine anymore.

qhile still quicky, and having a new learning curve, she has lost the tendency to spin "just because"

spins are hard to get out of, but a lot are recoverable from the same techniques used that proved nothing in 4.0

she has feeling again. i like it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_Ibis
06-16-2005, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by Hunde_3.JG51:
Seafire, the "official" supreme ruler of everywhere does not need to apologize.....sir http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I just heard crazyivan officially announced we are getting another expansion pack. WooHoo, life is good!

Great news I just relayed that info to every forum and chat room I could think of, now that should stir some possum. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WTE_Ibis
06-16-2005, 02:52 AM
Just yanking your chain Ivan, m8.

Jim81
06-16-2005, 02:59 AM
let me ask you a thing...

if you think 4.00 has more complicated FM does it mean that is inevitably correct ??

i really think 4.01 is a perfect balance between 3.04 and 4.00 where you dont have to break your arm to balance torque effect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) or you re forced to block tail wheel to make a safe take off..!

Genie-
06-16-2005, 04:44 AM
i really think 4.01 is a perfect balance between 3.04 and 4.00 where you dont have to break your arm to balance torque effect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) or you re forced to block tail wheel to make a safe take off..!

uh oh ..I'm sorry.. I hope they would include radar missles for you in next patch

Chuck_Older
06-16-2005, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by Genie-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">i really think 4.01 is a perfect balance between 3.04 and 4.00 where you dont have to break your arm to balance torque effect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) or you re forced to block tail wheel to make a safe take off..!

uh oh ..I'm sorry.. I hope they would include radar missles for you in next patch </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope they include a course in the next patch that makes you more civil

Genie-
06-16-2005, 05:18 AM
I hope they include a course in the next patch that makes you more civil

since when cynical is not civil?

Recon_609IAP
06-16-2005, 05:33 AM
Great patch - much better than 4.0, the main difference from what I could tell last night is that the excessive oscillation on the yaw axis was toned down to more realistic levels. Many are confusing this with torque effects imo - but, what I see is several aircraft if not all in the leaked release candidate as a feeling of 'flying on a needle head' with the swaying.

So, if you like this unrealistic aspect, keep 4.0, but certainly 4.01 is the true patch and rightly so.

Badsight.
06-16-2005, 05:36 AM
another expansion is coming !

whoo hooo !

msalama
06-16-2005, 06:03 AM
...the excessive oscillation on the yaw axis was toned down to more realistic levels.

OK, but what about AC that didn't have this (Hurricane IIc & many Soviet planes come to mind)? Were they left untouched?

OldMan____
06-16-2005, 06:05 AM
Originally posted by Recon_609IAP:
Great patch - much better than 4.0, the main difference from what I could tell last night is that the excessive oscillation on the yaw axis was toned down to more realistic levels. Many are confusing this with torque effects imo - but, what I see is several aircraft if not all in the leaked release candidate as a feeling of 'flying on a needle head' with the swaying.

So, if you like this unrealistic aspect, keep 4.0, but certainly 4.01 is the true patch and rightly so.

Don´t think is this they are talking about. You can again hang onprop without reducing power and you will not feel torque pushing you out.

Jim81
06-16-2005, 06:43 AM
(to Genie) I like sarcastic coments...but let me ask you if you were a pilot on 2ww that you can decide if the fm of 4.0 was tmore real than the one in 4.01 ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

by the way this week i ll ask my grandfather some opinions...he was a pilot on 2ww.

Genie-
06-16-2005, 07:37 AM
by the way this week i ll ask my grandfather some opinions...he was a pilot on 2ww.

my dear Jim81, you don't need to ask ww2 veteran to know what for example torque is (and when you slam the power to max while in slow, low flight), and stalls, and flat spins, roll rate.. etc etc. you can check out first pilot school and they can explain you a few things.

also if you really want, I can ask ww2 ace witch flew bf109 how does it feel in IL2.

from first 4.00 beta to beta 7... beta 5 was the best one.

geetarman
06-16-2005, 11:33 AM
Mustangs were changed in 4.01 it seems

Jim81
06-16-2005, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by Genie-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">by the way this week i ll ask my grandfather some opinions...he was a pilot on 2ww.

my dear Jim81, you don't need to ask ww2 veteran to know what for example torque is (and when you slam the power to max while in slow, low flight), and stalls, and flat spins, roll rate.. etc etc. you can check out first pilot school and they can explain you a few things.

also if you really want, I can ask ww2 ace witch flew bf109 how does it feel in IL2.

from first 4.00 beta to beta 7... beta 5 was the best one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


lol we seem two children arguing to decide who has better toy !! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Genie-
06-17-2005, 04:59 AM
lol we seem two children arguing to decide who has better toy !! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MINE IS BETTER!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

VW-IceFire
06-17-2005, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Tvrdi:
as i heard that in HL....if this is true I guess its a big step back to the arcade when compared to 4.0..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Not true. Very very slight difference that aren't even worth mentioning. 4.01 is smoother.

NorrisMcWhirter
06-17-2005, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
A change log would be induce worse whining then we have now. What Oleg does currently is just right.

"We fine tuned xxx to help deal with xxx"

Can you imagine if he actually told us what he did to make the changes? Remember, this isnt a spread sheet FM. It a calculated FM. So if the equations are not working proplerly with manufacturers data, then Oleg would need to more then likely change that data. So if the manufacture says that the engine in the spit created x amount of torque and Oleg changed it to y to make the spit fly more realistic with the FM calcs. Can you imagine what people would say?

"OMG OLEG!!!!!! You are a SPIT LOVER. YOU LOWERED THE SPITS TORQUE, BUT DID NOT DO THE SAME FOR THE FW? WHAT GIVES? YOU ARE A SPIT OVER AND AN FW HATER!!!!!"

Oleg releases patches and informs us just fine right now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S~

I'm sorry but you are obviously much smarter than I am...which is just as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif as it will enable you to easily tell me the difference between having having a readme with detailed changes followed by people whining about them as opposed to people arguing on the forums for months about WHETHER something has changed then whining about the change AFTER someone official admitted that it changed. Or, as is more likely, whining about the change AFTER a subsequent patch where the thing they were speculating about in the first place changed again (or did it?).

Just imagine the signal to noise ratio in ORR if all changes were crystal clear and the numerous 'speculation' threads disappeared.

I agree that there will be problems whether he documents changes properly or not (and I'm not suggesting that he gives precise information in the readme such as 'changed xyz boost to 25.389395839 lbs of boost') but more information generally ~= less speculation.

Ta,
Norris

Jim81
06-18-2005, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by Genie-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
lol we seem two children arguing to decide who has better toy !! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MINE IS BETTER!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The importance is that you believe in what you say...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif