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BSS_Vidar
12-29-2006, 09:45 AM
I just ordered 1946 for myself and a friend of mine.

Just curious... Did we finally get .50 cal API?

V<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

BSS_Vidar
Blacksheep 1

Gibbage1
12-29-2006, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
I just ordered 1946 for myself and a friend of mine.

Just curious... Did we finally get .50 cal API?

V

http://www.gibbageart.com/files/grab0000.jpg

Its questionable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gibbage/xb35.jpg

Vo101_Isegrim AkA Kurfurst__ "though the Northrop fantasy (B-35)
bomber you want to add to Il-2 never even got to the
prototype stage, while the Gotha did."

Tater-SW-
12-29-2006, 02:22 PM
That alone could be the problem, no API for 50 cals.

BSS_Vidar
12-29-2006, 03:03 PM
Typical http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I suppose if we ever got it, we'ld never hear the end of it. Saw some gun footage were 6 .50 cal's w/ API sawed the back end of a MiG-15 with just a short burst.

When it came to American API rounds, it wasn't just hitting the gas tank that was the problem for the other guy. API had magnisium in it. For Magnisium to burn, all you need is oxygen and metal!

I guess it would be a LOT of work to re-do all the damage models to reflect API hits.

Ah well. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

BSS_Vidar
Blacksheep 1

ImpStarDuece
12-29-2006, 03:13 PM
This wouldn't effect just the .50 Brownings though.

The Browning .303, MG17, MG131, MG151/20 and UB all fired API ammo as well. There were also loadouts for the Breda SAFAT and Ho-103 that had API ammunition, in addition to their standard AP/HE belting patterns. The MG131 actucally had two types a API, a true API round with just an incendiary agent, and a HE/API round, which combined a small amount of explosives with incendiaries.

The .50 cal Browning may not get a true API round, but, in game, it does have a HE round, which takes it place. During WW2 there was no HE round for the M2, so API is probably what 1C were attempting to simulate with its inclusion.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

ImpStarDuece,

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol, morphine or idealism."
-Carl Jung

Gibbage1
12-29-2006, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
The .50 cal Browning may not get a true API round, but, in game, it does have a HE round, which takes it place. During WW2 there was no HE round for the M2, so API is probably what 1C were attempting to simulate with its inclusion.

Wrong. M2's did have HE rounds. In fact, the battle of Midway started when a PBY loitered for a little longer in the area looking for a Mavis since they stole a few "new" HE rounds from the ammo locker to test out. They never found the Mavis, but they found the Japanese fleet. I read the pilots book. Apperantly they ran into a Mavis the day before and it put a few holes into there PBY. They took on extra fuel and 5 HE rounds (3 in 1 blister, and 2 in the other) to "test" on the Mavis if they found it. They used the extra fuel to loiter and find the Mavis, but found the Jap fleet.

So yes, there was HE rounds for the M2, or Midway would not of happened.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Vo101_Isegrim AkA Kurfurst__ "though the Northrop fantasy (B-35)
bomber you want to add to Il-2 never even got to the
prototype stage, while the Gotha did."

ImpStarDuece
12-29-2006, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:

Wrong. M2's did have HE rounds. In fact, the battle of Midway started when a PBY loitered for a little longer in the area looking for a Mavis since they stole a few "new" HE rounds from the ammo locker to test out. They never found the Mavis, but they found the Japanese fleet. I read the pilots book. Apperantly they ran into a Mavis the day before and it put a few holes into there PBY. They took on extra fuel and 5 HE rounds (3 in 1 blister, and 2 in the other) to "test" on the Mavis if they found it. They used the extra fuel to loiter and find the Mavis, but found the Jap fleet.

So yes, there was HE rounds for the M2, or Midway would not of happened.

Can you name the round designation for the HE ammunition, or was it just refered to as "High Explosive ammunition"?

I shouldn't wonder that this "HE" ammunition was either API or plain Jane incendiary rounds, such as M8 or M23 ammunition. The ammount of high explosive you can put into a thick walled 40-45 gram .50 cal shell is minimal. Incendiary content for API and incendiary rounds was about 1.5-2% by weight, which equates to about 0.6-0.9 grams per round.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

ImpStarDuece,

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol, morp

Gibbage1
12-29-2006, 07:11 PM
I dont have exact spacifics. One thing I remember is pilots talking about .50 cal rounds filled with Mercury. Once they hit the aircraft, the shell would compress and heat the mercury, causing it to explode with a bright white flast. The flash would be the size of a basketball, clearly visible, and would ignight any fuel vaper near it. Used alot in the Pacific in combination with AP rounds. 3/1 mix I think. 3 AP rounds to put a hole into the fuel tank, and 1 of these rounds to light it. Im not sure if this is what they refered to an HE round or not.

Remember, this is all off of pilots accounts. So like they know anything. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Everyone knows an internet savvy joystick jocky knows WAY WAY more about the aircraft then the pilots that fly them!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gibbage/xb35.jpg

Vo101_Isegrim AkA Kurfurst__ "though the Northrop fantasy (B-35)
bomber you want to add to Il-2 never even got to the
prototype stage, while the Gotha did."

ImpStarDuece
12-29-2006, 07:28 PM
No, but they could of been:

A) Misinformed. Its easier to say to pilots;"Its HE", rather than "Its an incendiary round filled with .5 grams of White Phosphorous and .3 grams tritol that flashes on impact and continues through the target".

or

B) Mistaken. Recollection is a funny thing. If I could recall everything I've done with 50% accuracy, I'd be suprised.

Mercury seems an improbable filler for a HE round.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

ImpStarDuece,

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol, morphine or idealism."
-Carl Jung

Gibbage1
12-29-2006, 07:48 PM
Im not saying the Mercury was an HE round. Im saying thats something they used that could of been thought of as HE, like you said. Considering the pilots accounts of what it did, im sure it was just as distructive as an HE round, if not more.

HE rounds tend to do the damage with shrapnal. .50 cal's dont have much material, so wont make much shrapnal. The Mercury round would be like an MG round. It deals its damage in expanding gas and heat, or setting fuel on fire. It would be percieved by the pilots as an explosive round since the thing explodes.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/gibbage/xb35.jpg

Vo101_Isegrim AkA Kurfurst__ "though the Northrop fantasy (B-35)
bomber you want to add to Il-2 never even got to the
prototype stage, while the Gotha did."

ImpStarDuece
12-30-2006, 06:11 AM
I asked Tony Williams (who's word on ammunition I would consider close to Gospel) and his answer was that .50 Browning HE rounds were:

"Developed experimentally, but never officially issued"

So, I'd argue that we can safely say that the .50 cal HE round in IL-2 is definately atypical of any common belting loadout during the war.

I'd also argue that the HE round would bring some of the balance back towards the .50 cal, as an effective substitute for API.

No, if we could just get de Wilde ammunition for the .303s and a bigger bang for our SAFATs, I'd be happy.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

ImpStarDuece,

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"Every form of addiction is bad, no matter whether the narcotic be alcohol, morphine or idealism."
-Carl Jung

Diablo310th
12-30-2006, 09:33 AM
back when this first came up many versions ago a member of the community used a HE round in Viet Nam. He even posted a picture of thr box with ammo in it. It would be nice to have a more typical loadout for US ac in the way of api-api-api-api-apit. It's something that's been asked for a long time now. I think it was in my post on Jug Dreams.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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heywooood
12-30-2006, 10:20 AM
I dunno - I seem to be sawing the Japanese planes apart with my Wildcat and the Corsair with regularity now...didn't used to be able to do that...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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A few of The Few