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Waldo.Pepper
11-13-2004, 11:27 AM
Here is some information for any potential P-61 Black Widow cockpit modeler who may be lurking or already working on this interesting plane. I have and am working on more.

Hope this is helpful.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/16.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/15.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/09.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/08.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/07.jpg

Waldo.Pepper
11-13-2004, 11:27 AM
Here is some information for any potential P-61 Black Widow cockpit modeler who may be lurking or already working on this interesting plane. I have and am working on more.

Hope this is helpful.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/16.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/15.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/09.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/08.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/07.jpg

Obi_Kwiet
11-13-2004, 12:10 PM
Hmm, that's gonna be alot of pollygons.

AlmightyTallest
11-13-2004, 01:59 PM
It still would make for an interesting plane to fly. Especially if they could model the radar this plane had. I would like to see some night fighters like the early corsair with 5 .50 cal's and a wing tip radar.

Hopefully eventually we could get all of this in PF with dedicated modellers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Copperhead310th
11-13-2004, 02:21 PM
As HQ CO of the 418th NFS i can asure you we would dam near kill for a flyable P-61 with working radar! I sent a huge file to the Modeler that was working on the P-61 and he said it was his "Intent" to make her & Make here flyable. What the current status on the 61 is is unknown to me. I had been told it would ship as AI only in PF. Maybey AI in a patch.
but they have already more than enough Info to make the cockpit and stations for the A, B, & C model black widow's.

Waldo.Pepper
11-13-2004, 02:37 PM
Hey Copper' did your nameless modeler tell you "they had enough info for a cockpit"?

Cause thats great. Made my day if true.

Diablo310th
11-13-2004, 04:01 PM
As Flight Leader for the =418thNFS= I want my Black widow. Flyers for the Rising Sun look out when she becomes flyable. The 418thNFS is gonna kick butt. I plan on running a night flying coop plus DF server in the name of the 310th soon. Keep your eyes open for it.

theaircobra
11-13-2004, 04:26 PM
i would very much like to see this aircraft flyable also. my great-grandpa worked on it!

Mozzie_21
11-14-2004, 03:12 AM
I hate to destroy you hopes, but there is no indication that a radar could be modeled in PF, hence there will be no P-61 night fighter.

Although believe me, I would like nothing more than a night fighter sim!

no not again
11-14-2004, 07:40 AM
Hi could the map be used to simulate the radar as all the a/c show up on it??

Diablo310th
11-14-2004, 08:17 AM
No....if you could limit the planes that could use teh map yes...that would be a good idea. It would work. If radar can't be modeled then maybe the devs could make it so only certain ac were allowed to use the map....server controlled.

Verhoff
11-14-2004, 02:18 PM
You guys just made my day. The Black widow is a grat plane

Copperhead310th
11-14-2004, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Hey Copper' did your nameless modeler tell you "they had enough info for a cockpit"?

Cause thats great. Made my day if true. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I belive so....yes. And the modeler was Plane Eater. and in a few conersations i have had after the Relaese of PF with some insiders sugest that we will at least be getting the black widow as Ai.

Origianlly posted by: Mozzie_21
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I hate to destroy you hopes, but there is no indication that a radar could be modeled in PF, hence there will be no P-61 night fighter.

Although believe me, I would like nothing more than a night fighter sim! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the same dam thing was said about aircraft carriers. and look we have carriers now.
If it can be thought of i think Oleg can do it.
it only take Oleg to WANT to do it to make it so.

And yeah the mini map is already a simple basis in the code for radar.

Doctor_Feelgood
11-14-2004, 02:38 PM
my grandma worked on planes during the war, as most of the women did in her area and when the '61 was brand new they had armed guards around them when they'd fly in. the radar was top secret and they were being cautious. not sure if she worked on a '61 but she saw them as soon as they were active.

Copperhead310th
11-14-2004, 02:47 PM
i would think that if we as a comunity could gather ehough info on the radar and how it worked it could be done.

Mozzie_21
11-14-2004, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Diablo310th:
No....if you could limit the planes that could use teh map yes...that would be a good idea. It would work. If radar can't be modeled then maybe the devs could make it so only certain ac were allowed to use the map....server controlled. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Original radars were very primative, they are not like the air trafic radars that we see today with a label for each plane. The radars were very primitive and modeling that is quite difficult. It's simply not as simple as having a minimap with blips for other planes.

rugame
11-14-2004, 04:36 PM
i would settle for a simple prompt like "A/C at your 4oclock at X height" and then let your eyes do the work.

I owuld LOVE for this big bad ***** to make the game, I just bought a 1/48 scale model of one that will be done after the 109g14 i am finishing.

Snootles
11-14-2004, 04:45 PM
I thought that because the radar was so primitive it would be easier to model, compared to multi-mode adjustable-beam sets.

Waldo.Pepper
11-14-2004, 04:57 PM
I have added even more of this fascinating planes details to the photo album on photo bucket.

I have tons more!

PM me if you want the details.

Posted the P-70 cockpit because of the caption and what it says about the usage of the radar on the teamwork required. I don't think we need tha radar (per se) modeled. Just the radar officers guidance if you read the captions.

Also posted a page that details a radar capable P38. Interesting stuff.

Also a couple pics of the night binoculars (from both sides.

I can't imagine that anyone would say NOW that there is not enough info or interest to model this plane.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/More%20Black%20Widow/Pict0135.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/More%20Black%20Widow/Pict0134.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/More%20Black%20Widow/Pict0124.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/More%20Black%20Widow/Pict0123.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/More%20Black%20Widow/Pict0095.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/More%20Black%20Widow/Pict0071.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/More%20Black%20Widow/Pict0042.jpg

Oh and a picture of the spoilers and the claim that the P-61 could out turn nearly any plane that it met in combat.

Well maybe!

ImpStarDuece
11-14-2004, 05:36 PM
I'd love to see this bird as a medium bomber AND a night fighter. Couldn't the A and B models haul like 4000lbs of bombs and the C was cleared for 8-10 000?

Besides with 4 20mms and 4 .50s there isnt much that can survive a burst from a P-61

GSNei
11-14-2004, 09:00 PM
I'm sure if they can come up with a working bombsight, which was not part of the original code they could come up with some form of a basic radar. Wheather they think It's worth their time and effort is another matter. My gut feeling is, if anywhere, It might be more likely to show up in BOB - it's alays such a big part of that story.

Snootles
11-14-2004, 09:38 PM
I am almost certain it will be in BoB. Two of the earliest plane models I saw on ancient previews were a Blenheim Mk. IF and a Defiant Mk. IA- both early radar night-fighters.

Waldo.Pepper
11-14-2004, 10:53 PM
Tha radar on the Black Widow was either a SCR-720A or SCR-720B (depending upon Black Widow variant.)

These radars are variations of the British Mx 10 AI

Here is a page on how the Mk 10 AI Radar works (worked) looks like.

http://website.lineone.net/~norman.groom/AI_MKX.htm



There is tons of information. Just have to look hard.

PlaneEater
11-15-2004, 01:03 AM
Waldo, please email all of that to me at snakebitt@mindspring.com

I'll see what I can do with it. Can't make any promises, unfortunately. :\

Mozzie_21
11-15-2004, 05:57 AM
Yeah I guess if they can do a bombsight they can do a radar.

Modern radars have interfaces that can easily be modeled with 'sprites' representing the signals on the target. The first generation radars, and even later radars were very, for want of a beter word 'organic'. I suspect that they would be difficult to model for the same reason that it is dificult to make accurate trees that wave in the wind or wings that flex.

Then again that is just my suspicion, going on nothing at all.

CHDT
11-15-2004, 06:12 AM
"I hate to destroy you hopes, but there is no indication that a radar could be modeled in PF"


We already have radar in PF.... icons on the map http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The_Ant
11-15-2004, 06:39 AM
It would be a cool plane in a coop/dogfight server, if the top gunturret can be manned.
Otherwise in a offline campaign or dogfight mission with Ai set as turretguner it will be flawed because of bad il2 programing making the Ai too see throw clouds and see in pitch black.This would make the game pretty unbalanced since the sniper ai would pick you off like nothing,i have no problem that the radar operator spots you on his screen and directs the turret gunner that you are in a certain position,but the built in ai gunners fires sometimes at 600-800 meters away in daylight and hit you clean in the head.Could this be reduced lets say the ai fires at you on visible distance of 100-200 meters in the dark i would accept it otherwise not.

Waldo.Pepper
11-15-2004, 08:52 AM
Planeeater.

Will send you the email. However there is too much material to send in an email and will send you a link to FTP site if thats OK with you.

I have many books and the P61A/B manual etc to contribute.

Mozzie_21
11-16-2004, 02:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CHDT:
"I hate to destroy you hopes, but there is no indication that a radar could be modeled in PF"


We already have radar in PF.... icons on the map http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like I have said, early radars were not that sophisticated. They were not a direct 2d projection of the positions of other planes.

EDIThttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gifh, you winked.

x__CRASH__x
11-17-2004, 02:56 AM
I'll help build the radar! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Copperhead310th
11-17-2004, 11:19 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifBumps up!

Waldo.Pepper
11-17-2004, 05:37 PM
Bump to:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=7921080242&p=3