View Full Version : I can now create Ages! Read this!

08-08-2005, 09:01 AM
I always wanted to create Ages for myself, but I could never find a way to make good ones. I'm talking about real-time 3D ones with full rag doll physics and dynamic reflections and bump mapping. I have finally found a way. Using Half Life 2's revolutionary Software Development Kit you can create your own art using SoftImage: XSI (free by the way) and then import it into Half Life 2's scenario editor. I have began to make a "rest area" and a single "Age" that it links to.

Everyone can learn how to do this. I found out about the SDK myself and I am learning how to use the tools all by myself. It would be much easier for me to teach others how to use these tools.

Today, I am modeling a linking book. I already have made a moving linking panel, which is an actual window to the world it links to. It's some pretty cool stuff. I'm not going to release any screenshots yet because everything is sortof laying about. (Yes, it's easy to make a mess in your own 3D world.)

This will be a freewalking world, like Myst: Uru, but with some key differences. Uru did not have any fun stuff to play with. I'm gonna try to change that. In fact, for now I'm not even thinking about any puzzles. I'm just trying to make an interesting Age. Also, you will be able to pick up objects instead of having to lamely kick them about.

The Age I'm currently planning/building is called Hexon. (Name subject to change) It is made up of many many hexagonal crystals which form an island in an endless sea. I'm going to try to add organic materials to it. (but they're hard to model)

However, to try out my demo, (Once it's released, which should be less than a month) you'll need a copy of Half Life 2. Since I don't have a whole lot of action going on, I have the res. on 1024x768 and the graphics all the up (with AA on 4x and AS no 8x) and the framerate is still 30+ even on my crappy machine. So, the graphics will be very good even on a machine that runs Uru on medium.

Please tell me what you thing of this plan and don't hesitate to give ideas. This could be a big group project someday if anybody else that likes Myst has/gets Half Life 2 (even just for the SDK).

Thanks for reading this thread and I promise that I will definitely post a screenshot or two by next Monday. Feel free to ask questions. (My game will definately be rated E, unlike Half Life 2, in case anybody was worried that I would put violence/gore in it.)

08-08-2005, 09:37 AM
Cool! Too bad I don't have HL2...Deg'll have to check your future demo and give me the review http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif. Me wants screens, preciousss...

08-08-2005, 02:44 PM
This sounds really great. I also have Half-Life 2 and was just trying to make my own little map. A Myst age would work great because there isn't any rule that you need guns or enemies in a level. In fact the default hud when you first make a map is nonexistent(Very Myst-like) My number one complaint so far with the SDK is it's inability to create convex brushes which is something I took for granted when working with 3ds Max. I also don't like that mostly anything of detail must be modeled and textured in XSI then imported in but I can get used to that. I definitly will look for more news on your mod and will be the first one in line for it(In virtual line anyways)
Possibly after I finish my current I'll also make an Age. The main problem is I wouldn't be able to use any of the premade objects.(Flammable barrels don't fit the Myst-style) If you did make tutorials of how you did some of the stuff it would be helpful because the more advanced topics in Source are still over my head.
Good luck with your age! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

08-08-2005, 07:25 PM
I heard some people were able to hack the Uru engine and make an age off that, and they were able to explore it in Uru too. If only you could get your ages to do so! lol

08-09-2005, 08:19 AM
I'm not sure what you mean Takua. People have hacked Ages from Uru and screwed them up, but they haven't created any new content or anything.

Today's agenda is:

Finish getting a single crystal into my world.
(Of course, once I get that to work I can build a whole world out of them.)

Make the file system for this game so that other people will be able to download and try it eventually. (Gotta plan ahead)

Finish the linking book model and put that in the game with its moving linking panel.

Make the linking book work...

08-09-2005, 08:29 AM
actually, some people have actually made a new Age...it's very rudimentary...but new content by fans is soon on the way.

08-09-2005, 06:31 PM
Sounds awesome.post screenshots soon. it doesnt matter if they suck ..as long as theres some cool pics. thanks

08-13-2005, 10:16 PM
I now have a linking book that I can set a destination for and the moving linking panel is now set in it. Of course, don't expect more than that in Monday's screenshot because as you probably know it takes a long long time to make a small amount of playable content from scratch.

08-13-2005, 10:42 PM
awesome. cant wait 2 see it.

08-14-2005, 09:34 PM
Here is week #1's screenshot. This is a real-time screenshot and I can move around freely. The linking panel is actually a window to the world it links to. And, the objects on the table were modeled and textured by me. (along with the book of course) The objects started off in the game on the floor and I picked them up in game and put them on the table like that. Notice the pencil that is sitting on top of the other pencil. That is just a glimpse of the power of the Source engine. I'm having trouble thinking of an Age to make because I'm looking to make an Age that has a purpose rather than just making puzzles and things. Ideas welcome. Another screenshot will be posted next Monday.

08-14-2005, 10:01 PM
dang. ur pretty good. keep up the good work. ill give u an idea 2morrow. peace

08-15-2005, 07:21 AM
Hi !
Great - move on.
My question is: exist a project of rebuilding RIVEN in realtime 3D ? This is my dream to play RIVEN with the newest 3D technology.

Thanks and nice day.

08-15-2005, 08:21 AM
Yow...that would be quite the undertaking http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif!

Hmm...how 'bout a good old-fashioned Age to start with, something Atrus would've done, like some green rolling hills falling into and endless sea, light blue sky...that's part of why I like the original Myst Island. It had more of a earth-like feel to it, and Cyan didn't feel the pressure of making weird trees and land formations everywhere. But change is good... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

08-15-2005, 08:33 AM
I've been thinking that a canyon might be better than an island (Think Er'cana)

08-15-2005, 08:36 AM
Wow. I have always said that within 10 years, computers will be powerful enough, and there will be authoring packages around that are easy enough to allow someone with the time, talent, and energy, to build their own version of Uru, Revelations, or any other 'Myst like' 3D game on their own PC. I would say this is the start of that prediction. Good Job Zeusmeister007!

If this is in real time, I wonder if wearing a pair of 3D Shutter Glasses will let you see your scene with true depth?

As for connecting to a useful world, I am imagining using a package like Vista Pro, or Vue d'Espirit 5, to create a forest world full of trees, misty mountains and water. Have the linking book resting on a pedastal, near a primal waterfall... well, using hi-end 3D packages sounds good, but would take a single person years to render out all the scenes, but at least it's a start http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

08-15-2005, 11:50 AM
Im thinking a cave age or one with a cave would be cool. Maybe you have to try to escape from the cave or something. Also a huge cliff type one like the one in the link would be awesome. Like you are at the top and have to work your way down and out to ground level maybe. A lighthouse on a cliff would be really sweet too. My dream is to make an awesome lighthouse multiplayer map haha.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.irtc....10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.irtc.org/ftp/pub/stills/2002-10-31/mitrv.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.irtc.org/stills/2002-10-31.html&h=900&w=900&sz=240&tbnid=ki8XtCM-z1MJ:&tbnh=145&tbnw=145&hl=en&start=8&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvalley%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D )

08-15-2005, 12:20 PM
What about a giant gold mine with working old time minecars? That way I could also make a big vault with a Mystish opening.

(This would also allow using stalaktites or whatever they are called, which would probably look cool)

08-15-2005, 01:56 PM
Thats' pretty cool. It's like a cave. A triggered collapse that trapped you inside would be awesome. And the carts would allow for a 'ride' which is almost a signature myst thing.(also Riven had that awesome mine cart part)

08-15-2005, 03:31 PM
Hey! I'm really, really impressed. Linked it over at Uru Obsession (http://www.uruobsession.com/forum/index.php?s=79015a63962a78667cd434d9d752a1ee&act=ST&f=94&t=20307&st=0&) for you in a discussion about exactly this kind of thing.

If you need a tester, I don't mind doing the job. RE design work, try to come up with a rudimentary story and work from there, it'd be much better than creating ages with little in common. Good work!

08-15-2005, 03:35 PM
The only thing I can say is make an age that best suits you, dude. Create your dream age!

08-15-2005, 04:47 PM
What is this called? Is this like a Half Life 2 mod? It's not really a mod right, just a user created map? And what should it be called..we need some good ideas

08-15-2005, 05:02 PM
This is not just a user created map. Some object (and soon sound) files have been added to the game's folders.

I don't know what to call this yet. Right now it is just called "Zeusmeister's Myst"

Is anybody interested in helping make this? It isn't that hard to do.

Please spread the word that this exists.

08-15-2005, 05:54 PM
This sounds really cool, I've always liked the idea of Myst in the source engine. I'd like to help, but all I have is some minor experience in map making.

08-15-2005, 06:12 PM
You don't need any experience in mapmaking. You need to be able to model things in Softimage: XSI and texture them. Once you have modeled them you could send them to me and I could put them into the game. You would eventually learn to do that yourself but you wouldn't have to to start off.

I spend very little time creating the actual map. Most of the work is done outside of Hammer. (The world builder for Source)

Here is an interesting side note. I never knew that anyone had even discussed making Myst with the Source engine. I just decided to do it all by myself.

08-15-2005, 06:36 PM
I love what you are doing by making your own age with half life 2. I really want to get it myself so that i can help you and play the demos and stuff(plus its a great game)...i just might actually buy it. But anyways I doubt you saw it but I posted something about a bungie.net 'group'. You can check it out here http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/mystisland/GroupHome.aspx?lc=1033 . I figured you must like fps's cause u have half life 2 but nomatter what, those bungie.net groups are very cool. I was thinking that we could start one(or convert that one) so that it is used to post news and screenshots etc. about your 'mod'. It would be like our own little website and i would be glad to run it with you. Anyways tell me what you think.

08-15-2005, 06:44 PM
How about we call the 'game'... The Source Ages

08-15-2005, 06:54 PM
I think I should get actual playable content ready before thinking about that kind of stuff.

08-15-2005, 07:01 PM
So you will need Half Life 2 to play it? Is there any way to make it into an executable or something or is that impossible?

08-15-2005, 07:05 PM
You will need Half Life 2 to play it. There is a way to make it a seperate game that you run, (with it's own menu and so on) but you would still need Half-Life 2.

08-15-2005, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by ZeusmeisterX007:
You don't need any experience in mapmaking. You need to be able to model things in Softimage: XSI and texture them. Once you have modeled them you could send them to me and I could put them into the game. You would eventually learn to do that yourself but you wouldn't have to to start off.

I spend very little time creating the actual map. Most of the work is done outside of Hammer. (The world builder for Source)

Here is an interesting side note. I never knew that anyone had even discussed making Myst with the Source engine. I just decided to do it all by myself.

Won't you need to use Hammer to do the actuall level geometry, such as the ground, walls and celiengs and the what not?

08-15-2005, 08:34 PM
Some of it. But if you want detailed walls, (like Myst usually has) you'll need to model them to. Terrain geometry won't be that much work, as it is usually pretty simple.

08-16-2005, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by ZeusmeisterX007:
Some of it. But if you want detailed walls, (like Myst usually has) you'll need to model them to. Terrain geometry won't be that much work, as it is usually pretty simple.

You probably want to do as much as you can in level geoemtry, inluding more detailed walls, like arches and the such. Objects like chairs, doors, etc. should be models. Least, that's what I'm told, as models tend to be more exspensive on the processing.

08-16-2005, 08:53 AM
I've opened up a thread on the AG'ers forum (http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?p=174114#post174114) communities for you. I suggest you do the same at Uru Obsession, D'ni Jazz Club, Just Adventure +, Four Fat Chicks and Gameboomers to help garner some interest in your project and Bungie page.

08-16-2005, 04:50 PM
I need people to help with sound, art, and ideas. I can easily tell people how to get started with the Source engine.

08-16-2005, 06:11 PM
I can help with ideas and possibly art too. Are you still going to do something like the gold mine or have you decided not to do that?

08-16-2005, 06:15 PM
What kind of sound(s) zeus?

08-16-2005, 06:41 PM
I think that a rest Age sortof like Relto but bigger should be made first. I don't think that you should have access to all of the Ages right from the start. I think you should only be able to access the rest Age and around 2 other Ages from the start, so putting strange things in the rest Age would be good. The mine idea is definitely staying. I think we could make another Age that was an island styled with ancient Greek architecture. I don't think that there has been an Age like that yet in any Myst game. I'm not sure about the sounds yet but if others decide to help with this project we're gonna need some. Art has to come first though for obvious reasons. I will probably be online for a while so I can answer any more questions quickly. Do any of you have Half Life 2?

08-16-2005, 08:51 PM
Hi Zeus...everything sounds very cool. I understand what you're saying about sounds....but I guess what I'm asking is do you specifically want only some SFX to start once the art concepts come together or perhaps natural sounds...then maybe some background music down the line? I'm not sure what you're plans are in its entirety for this...

08-16-2005, 08:55 PM
Machinery and so on would have their own sounds just like in Myst. Natural sounds would also have to be gathered and made into soundscapes. (That is what source calls them) Soundscapes make up the background noises, like birds on an island, but only one soundscape plays at once, so you don't slow the game down by playing 100 different background sounds at the same time.

08-16-2005, 09:03 PM
Cool...I understand the soundscape concept perfectly...I think I may be able to engineer something in this regard for you...but don't hold me to it just yet! Any ideas on specific machinery or still waiting on concepts? You didn't mention anything about background music? Interested?

08-16-2005, 09:28 PM
I need full Age designs and art right now. The #1 think you should remember when making up an Age is "What is its purpose." The #2 thing is, "How does it do what its made for." #3, how does that create a challenge for you?

I'm thinking that maybe we should make the gold mine Age first. The sounds would be easier for that as well. I think we should research a little though and find out exactly how old-time minecar type mines operated. Then we have to make an Age overview, which is basically a map with what we want where written on it. I have been thinking it would be good to make a minecar ride with real physics, but the problem with that is that you wouldn't be able to pick up the minecar if it flew off the track.

08-16-2005, 09:39 PM
Couldnt you 'lock' the cart to the track somehow. Cause u can script events right? Also it could possibly be like myst where the game enters into a cutscene right? I know that this would be very hard if we wanted it to look good but im sure there is someone who can animate and do stuff that that pretty good(i wish i could animate well).
Anyways I will draw some sketches or something tonight. I will put them up tomorrow probably if i do make them. I'll do some for the mine age and maybe some ideas for the rest area. What should the theme for the rest area be? Oh and for the mine age..should it be entirely inside the mine or partly outside first/last? And if inside first should it be like you are trapped inside and have to work your way out?

08-16-2005, 10:02 PM
Well in regards to music/sound...maybe you should answer #1 for me...I can certainly brainstorm though. I can probably apply sound concepts to the question "how does it do what its made for" once there is something more concrete to work with....& I can already think of & see a great many challenges...so no worries there! For now...I'll see what I can do in regards to digging up some old mine car sounds...

08-16-2005, 10:03 PM
Here's another question relating to gameplay - You can create your own items right? So like could you model a match (for an idea I have) and then have that be used like a weapon(so that it could be picked up and added to your inventory and then used later on(possibly multiple times i guess)??

Also...what should be the result of getting through the ages..(like in exile you copied the images onto paper and they were later used to open up the final age) Should a key-type thing be awarded like a stone and you put all of the stones in a pattern in some pedestal or something and once they are all in place the final age opens (or the game ends watever it may be)

08-16-2005, 10:07 PM
Instead of being trapped inside maybe you should start outside and we could make the linking panel look like a bright and sunny age and then you go there and you have to go inside a very dark ominous mining complex. Also I was thinking a mine car ride where you could change the path of the mine care via switches and so on. It isn't that hard to animate things if you throw most of the stuff into Havoc. It is now 12:00 P.M. my time so I won't be posting again until tomorrow.

Adding things to your inventory would be more of a challenge. I think it would be easier to make a lamp that you could just pick up and move around. And Myst games almost never let you pick things up and keep them anyway.

08-16-2005, 10:39 PM
Who knew mine-cars were so interesting. Here's one link of many on mine cars and how they were contructed & why (at least from an American perspective):


Here's a link to some cool mining images from 1910 -1920:

This link offers TOO MANY pictures of mine-cars as well as an "internal" blue-print of a cart. It shows almost an evolution of cars over time... I think it will help with concept art. It also points out that several of the cars have a controlled "tipping" capability...so perhaps this is a possibility to implement into the game...when and if the player needs to "dismount" so to speak. Here's the link:

From the little I've read thus far...I stumbled on an incredible "circuit board" image (this system created by the German's)...here's the link...very cool...


Lastly...I spent some time looking for sounds...the closest thing thus far I could find were train sound effects. It is quite possible to take/cut from those sounds and do a little sculpting if you will...but it is meaningless until it is known how & where the car will actually run so as to apply the effect appropriately.

Hope the links help in some way or other...


08-17-2005, 08:21 AM
Excellent. We can use all of those pictures. I think that I will base the minecar off of the pic in the first link because it looks like the classic minecar people are used to seeing. They also included schematics there just for me.

I think that the tipping idea can wait for now. I'll try to start modeling a car soon.

If your bored you could look for pictures from caves and mines, but don't overdo it.

Don't bother with sound effects now.

The idea of having to finish all of the Ages to unlock the final Age is good, but I don't think you should be able to get to all of the other Ages from the start.

IMPORTANT!!! How do I post screenies from my comp. on this site?

08-17-2005, 01:57 PM
What's the tipping idea? and what do you mean by how do i post screens from my comp? cause didnt u already do that earlier this week?

08-17-2005, 02:07 PM
It's in neo's post up a little bit, but I don't think we want the minecar to tip anyways. I posted on a different site before and then entered the URL on this site. I don't think I can directly post screenies from my comp to this site.

08-17-2005, 02:16 PM
Yeah...on several occassions in alternate threads...I wanted to "post" a couple of individual pictures that I downloaded but it doesn't seem like there's a work-around for the URL CODE image limitation. You may have to start e-mailing w/ attachments...or post somewhere else that doesn't have the limitation? Maybe a moderator can put up an attach image link or help with this issue somehow...

08-17-2005, 02:23 PM
I can keep postin in another Myst forum and then just usin the URL for now but its a pain.

Here is the minecar I made today http://s4.invisionfree.com/Myst5/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1137362

08-17-2005, 02:35 PM
WOW Zeus that was fast!

I like it! Looking forward to eventually seeing further possible textures & color. You may be already thinking this but I'm thinking there has to be a handle of some kind on this thing. Maybe like the ones in Indiana Jones & The Temple Of Doom?

If not just for stopping purposes (depending on how complicated you want to make the mine-car's role in the game) you could add a steering option...leading to different parts of the mine? It could be a maze of sorts...kinda' like in the 1st MYST? Or maybe there are dead ends or places you can't get to until you blow something up?? I'm just throwing ideas out there.

As for images...that is a pain...there has to be a better way...but if not... at least we're seeing some pics...

08-17-2005, 03:50 PM
Nice. You are good and fast. The only thing im wondering is how you get in it. Will you just 'jump' into the cart(like click on it and then just suddenly be in it)? or will there be an animation of you climbing into it or a door opening on it then you getting in it? or can you jump into it if it is low enough or use a ramp?

08-17-2005, 04:08 PM
Hey XBOX...you bring up a good point as to the in/out of the car and that's kinda' why I nudged at the "tipping" idea...but as you suggested/questioned there could be MANY other ways. Yeah...maybe there is a ramp of sorts as a part of a "docking" station where the car is located. These docking stations could then all be similar in construction and logical as to the in & out process. Maybe there is a handle at the station and not as a part of the car...or both...

08-17-2005, 05:03 PM
I just drew an idea for the mine cart platform/switches. The platform is just a simple wooden up/flat/down ramp. The other thing is stoppers for the cart at each platform. Once you got into the cart you could pull a lever to your right or left that is attached to stoppers on the track. The stoppers would either move to the sides, go into the ground(probly not) or flip down to allow the cart to start moving. The ground would probably be slanted so that the cart would just start rolling once the stoppers were moved. I will put the pics up once i get my camera back later today.

08-17-2005, 05:53 PM
Sounds cool XBOX...look forward to the drawings.
I think another question to consider (as you mentioned being on a slant and the car just rolling) would be...is the car or cars powered by something other than gravity? If gravity is the only thing operating the car how is it going to get back to where it originally started...unless everything works by a giant U- shape...meaning starts high...drops low and ends high. Doesn't seem like a common way for mine-cars to operate. I like the idea of the stoppers and switches. I also mentioned/posted a link before about the German circuit board. Not that this has to be used per say...but I think electricity may be necessary if the player is actually going to be riding in the mine-car. Otherwise...what is pushing the car...other than gravity/inertia? If no electricity then maybe the "platform" or "docking station" can act as a giant pinball machine...projecting you forward... almost like a sling-shot or a catapult...to get you moving...

Just more ideas...

08-17-2005, 06:07 PM
Yeah. I know what you mean. It could be like in Riven tho where the cart did drop down and get major speed and go back up high due to its speed. Then from the far end of the cave come back by getting speed and going back up the hill. but in Riven it also had to rely on a chain to pull it up from one direction(like a roller coaster). That could be used to get it back up. Or possibly you may not need to get back at all. The cart could be the only way to get across a ravine or to a certain place..or maybe just to carry something with you that you need at the end of the cave to escape from it(maybe the entrance collapses after you enter.

08-17-2005, 06:16 PM
I've got a good plan for how the minecar should work. I'll write it up and then post it soon.

08-17-2005, 06:25 PM
I guess I can show you my idea for the start of the Mine age. Here's a pic that I found that I really like. I added the ramp/house pic(I know it looks like ****, but it is just to show what I think it should look like).
Now to start either you should be floating in on a raft or start inside an old deserted shack on top of the hill. Inside the shack should be a lantern that is necessary to get through the dark parts of the cave. The cave could either be blocked off by warning signs or a fallen tree or debris or else you should just be able to enter the cave easily. If it is blocked off, then you should either have to break/get past the blocker or else there should be a hole or an alternate path up by the shack or else inside the shack(like a hidden panel that leads into the cave. maybe a puzzle could be opening the panel/ findind it). From there I have no clue yet. I will try to think of possible puzzle ideas with the cart and the purpose of mine/ ways to maybe get out.

*also it would look better as dirt or beach by the cave entrance rather than that ugly rock)

08-17-2005, 06:40 PM
*Sorry about the quality(its a webcam)*

-Here's my simple idea for the loading ramp

-The idea for switching tracks/moving the blockers(arrow is 4 the lever 4 moving blockers out of way)
From another angle

-And lastly possibly the view from inside the cart(idk why i drew it-bored i guess)

08-17-2005, 08:21 PM
I need pictures of mine track, but I guess I could just start building without them.

Nice job xbox, I'll try to work out the details.

08-17-2005, 09:54 PM
Here is a picture of the track. Tell me what you think. Sorry that there aren't any textures yet, but I think that they should all match so I'm not doing any yet.


08-17-2005, 10:08 PM
Nice job XBOX!

Love your ideas. I'm guessing here starting "on land" is probably easier than starting off land in a raft or boat of some sort when it comes to actions involved. I guess we'll wait to hear from Zeus as to his idea on the mine car operation...but we need to also know how much of a role it plays. As a puzzle...or just a quick means of transportation...a one time trip as you mentioned? Is it an uninterrupted action sequence (like you mentioned in RIVEN)?

I personally don't mind the rock entrance so either way seems cool to me. Also like your cart sketches! How did you get your pics up here?

Hey Zeus!
I like your track...sorry I wasn't on earlier to see your need for track images...if you still want some just say the word and I'll try to dig some up for you. Also have some cool images of mines/caves and I'll put the links up at some point tomorrow.


08-17-2005, 10:31 PM
The tracks good. Its nice and simple which is usually a good thing.
And yeah neo..on land would be a lot easier but if we could do it and make it look pretty decent with you floating in, then we would have the opportunity for an awesome opening sequence to the age..like maybe a whale or something jumps right next to you haha idk. watever. in the shack 2 start would be best i think

08-17-2005, 10:33 PM
Hmmmm.... I think maybe the shack with the lake should go in a different Age. Maybe a tranquill one with hidden secrets, an island resort maybe. Since we're supposedly gonna make multiple Ages, I think that maybe this one shouldn't even have an outside.

08-17-2005, 11:05 PM
Well just to throw another perhaps familiar idea out there...maybe upon completing the mine-car puzzle or something within the mine...the car will then lead the player to an area that is "connected" and you don't have to link just yet. Said another way...you can get to the lake or resort or an alternate decision via mine-car then encounter another area THEN link to another age after whatever this area may present?

08-18-2005, 01:28 AM
So have you decided whether or not the carts will be powered or just gravity 'powered'?
-i'm drawing an idea for the entire layout of the mine age so i will put it up sometime today.

08-18-2005, 03:50 AM
Regarding posting images here, you could always just get some free webspace somewhere (eg GeoCities (http://www.geocities.com/)) and upload them there. Should be pretty simple.

08-18-2005, 08:40 AM
Gravity powered. They will be pushed out of the station by giant ram looking devices. I will put up the full plan later today.

I can't see how that minecar could be powered convincingly anyway.

08-18-2005, 08:56 AM
I could spend some time convincing you Zeus...but obviously art/story will have to reflect this...and I like the idea of the ram & gravity causing the locomotion anyhow...it makes the mine-car come across as "older" or more primitive. I'm looking forward to seeing these drawings & plans.

Thanks uecasm for the heads-up.

08-18-2005, 09:25 AM
I'll write the plan first because concept art might take a while. The Age was once a mine that was used to extract X. Minecars would start in a cave near the surface and go down deep underground on one of several routes where they would be filled and then brought back to the surface. The minecar(s)(there were multiple at the time of operation) would be advanced to their next stop by pulling the lever at any one of the stations (one of the levers was at every station), which would cause the giant ram at each station to push any cars in its station out of the flat portion of track (which had very high friction and stopped rolling cars) *sparks fly hehe* and go rolling to the next stop. At the very bottom all of cars would wind up in the same place. There was only one way for the cars to get back to the top. There was a modification of the regular giant ram that would push them back to the top along a steep incline of track. The final stop after you had gone up the shaft via the giant modified ram was the control room. The control room has a giant lever for each track switch in the network. The problem is, the only way to determine which lever goes with which switch is follow the wires to see where each one goes while your travelling in the minecar. At high speeds that can get a little tricky. Once you know what lever operates each switch you can arrange them properly to go down other tracks. The wires go along the roof if I haven't already said that.

Here is a wheel. I think I'm gonna remodel the spokes though.

I remodeled the spokes...

Tell me what you think. NOW!!!

08-18-2005, 11:32 AM
I took uecasm's friendly suggestion and opened up a geocities account...

LOL Zeus http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I think the spokes look awesome...a great improvement!

I know you said not to over do it...but that's like telling someone like me... to not be me! (I did try to restrain myself though...)

The following link is just incredible...I know you guys are busy busy but if you get a moment go through all 19 images...they are taken from a salt mine in Poland...they actually carved artwork (relief) into the sides of the mine...the link starts you at image 8...image 18 has a very cool piture of the mine-car and track... check them all out though:


Next 2 links are of a portal - possible entrance/exit idea (quite myst-like):



Here are some track & mine image links:






Some more mine images here as well...look past the donkey and at the very least you can see the track pretty well:


For now I'll leave it at that...I may try to also put some more cave-like and mine immersive images in the near future...

FOrgot to say...I really like the mine-car plans ZEUS...and I'll brainstorm further in a little while...

08-18-2005, 12:10 PM
Here is a picture of the wheels in the game. I had a little setback with the physics model, but I worked out the kink. Sorry about the brightness. It looks like that because I have the gamma and so on adjusted in the game but when I take a screenshot somehow lose the adjustment.

08-18-2005, 12:14 PM
Nice wheels ZEUS! That's an interesting way to foreshadow the age! I'm assuming you created the flooring texture as well? Awesome! Brief suggestion...maybe make the hub of the wheel a differnet shade of brown or different color all together from the "spokes."

Be back in a bit to comment/brainstorm on the mine-car plan...

08-18-2005, 12:20 PM
I'm checkin out my avatar...

08-18-2005, 12:21 PM
LOL!...very cool!

08-18-2005, 12:24 PM
Uh, Neo, the the wheels aren't textured yet. I don't think that an old minecar would have nice white plastic wheels. I'm not texturing all these things yet (actually I have pure white textures on them now) because the textures all have to match and they're a pain to have to change.

Actually, I didn't make the floor texture. I stole it from the HL 2 texture library. Sorry. *runs crying*

Exaclty how old are you Neo?

08-18-2005, 12:25 PM
OK... sorry Zeus...getting ahead of myself....don't send down the bolts on me yet...
12 going on 72...NOT! If I told you that I'd have to kill you Zeus....and I don't want to do that... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Why do you ask?

08-18-2005, 12:34 PM
I was a wonderin if you are gonna give up as soon school starts. (If you live in USA, if you don't I have no idea how things work in your country, wherever it may be)

08-18-2005, 12:41 PM
OK Zeus! Fair enough...Let's just say I graduated from college many years ago! I am in the process of learning game development from a number of different perspectives...and am a huge MYST fan...so I have enjoyed "frequenting" this forum as of late. "Working on/ helping" a project like this on the side is not only fun for me but would be a great plus/learning experience! I have a pretty independent job that gives me the freedom to do as I please. Have a trade show coming up tomorrow for the next almost 10 days...so I may not be here as often...but I'll be checkin' in later on in the evenings most likely! I know I can help with ideas/story/logic/puzzles & sound including music! No worries...I'll do my best to stick it out with you!

08-18-2005, 12:49 PM
I see. How old do you think I am? I will tell you that I no longer go to high school. I don't think you would ever guess my Age though.

I just worked out a huge kink in the way I was finishing the physics model. No more problems with that from here on out.

Does your job involve working with sound?
Are you alright at art?

08-18-2005, 01:29 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif This is funny! I've found no matter where I am...leaving age out but not experience when possible...has been a good thing! SO if you want to tell me then go for it...but I won't ask you! My main job currently does not involve working with sound. I'll just say that it is a business venture that with some dedication could grow. So... in the mean time it allows for me to survive and concentrate on music & game development... 2 great avenues I continue to explore. I undertake side projects when & if I can in regards to music composition and audio engineering. I am somewhat experienced in audio-engineering...and could easily work with "sound" in several ways that you may need...at least from what I'm guessing. I'd be sure to tell you otherwise! More exciting for me though is that if you do decide that you'd like some music... I could also compose something for you to see if you like it.

As far as art goes...I can sketch pretty well on paper...but I don't do what you are doing per computer generation. I know people who do though...it's just many of the details involved are still new to me. Like I said...logic, story, puzzles, sound/music (major parts of the development process)...and I'll just throw in science & art concepts through logic......I'm your guy! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Glad to hear about the kink being worked out!

We're on page five now...don't forget the links to different mine-cars/track ideas on PAGE 4! That salt mine is amazing!

08-18-2005, 01:42 PM
Since I'm the leader of this project, I don't think your ever gonna get to know my age.

I will say that I never did any of this stuff before two weeks ago. I am terrible at freehand drawing, but my perfect trig. and geometry save me when 3D modeling. I borrowed Half Life 2 from a friend and then downloaded the free SDK and just trudged through it for about a week until I knew what I was doing. Before that I had never done any game design, so learning Softimage wouldn't be that hard for you. I don't need those pictures yet but I will soon. I like #12 in the group of 18.

08-18-2005, 01:49 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Pretty **** good for only a couple weeks ZEUS! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif No worries on the age thing...like I said leaving age out but not experience tends to be a good thing when possible!

Per learning Softimage...I think you're right...I don't think it would be too hard for me to learn and I'm always interested in learning new things... but for now I won't give an emphatic "NO"...but rather a "no for now."

Yeah image 12 is AWESOME...I think all of them are!

08-18-2005, 08:39 PM
Okay guys, I was kinda busy today. However, while at the golf course, i managed to draw a couple of ideas i have. The only one that i am gonna show for now though is one 'puzzle' idea that you have to solve while in the mine.
There would be another short passage to the right of this blocked one which ends with a room with 3-5 levers or switches of some sort. You would have to set them all into the proper position and then the blocking rocks would fall down into the ground through a trap door that falls when the switches are all in position. The proper postions would probably be given in a journal you are supposed to read ala Myst. I will show some more ideas tomorrow. - Matt

08-19-2005, 03:31 PM
There would be another short passage to the right of this blocked one which ends with a room with 3-5 levers or switches of some sort. You would have to set them all into the proper position and then the blocking rocks would fall down into the ground through a trap door that falls when the switches are all in position. The proper postions would probably be given in a journal you are supposed to read ala Myst.

Ok, this is where I dissagree. I like the idea of a collapse, but I don't understand the trap door part. If someone set up a mine to collapse, I don't think that they would have a trap door under where it collapsed, because it would be a one timer (they couldn't really un-collapse the mine later). I guess it could be done, but the main reason the trap door idea has to get put to sleep is that looking up answers in a journal and then just putting them in isn't fun. It's more fun and satisfying when you figure the stuff out yourself. I thought that the ending for Exile was terrible. I spend hours trying to determine which words went with Age and how to put them in that little light machine on Naryan. I was very upset when I found out that that great puzzle opportunity was really just a "look for the italicized words in the journal and then stick the answers in," exercise.

08-19-2005, 04:12 PM
Yeah. I guess you're right. There would have to be no more than 5 levers for sure then because otherwise it would be really impossible. But there would still have to be a few little clues otherwise it would take a long time and be really frustrating unless you got lucky on the first few tries. And how do you propose that the rock wall falls and gets put back? Maybe they could be on a tray type thing and then they get pulled up so that you can walk under them. That could work and be replaceable. Plus then maybe you only have a few seconds to get under the 'wall' before it falls back down. The only thing about this is that the rocks would have to be bonded as if they were cemented together otherwise they would slide down off of each other too easily.

08-19-2005, 04:51 PM
Unless the Age is old and deteriorating, then we could make a collapse that wasn't supposed to happen. I think that that would probably be the best way.

08-19-2005, 05:14 PM
I'm thinking that the wall is there to protect the gold that was once(or still is) in the mine. I'm thinking that you start off in the shack/cabin that i mentioned a few days ago. Then, you go around the back of the shack and either dig up a clue with a shovel or move a loose brick to get a clue that hints on how to find/open up the secret hatch inside the cabin. You then go down a ladder and walk down a short passage into the mine. I was then thinking that maybe there is a 'puzzle' where you have to move around the string or whatever it was that went from those 'pumps' that blew up dynamite (or else you ahve to lay powder). This would blow up a wall and allow you access to the next part of the mine.(I'm thinking that maybe the man that used to live in the cabin and mine for gold was too old and sealed everything up and tried to hide all his gold for someone to find eventually idk). Anyways then you would get to the rock 'wall' puzzle that we were discussing. So maybe that is a way to stop people from finding the gold and that is why it collapses by a trap door or if we used the lift up/down way then that was his way of always entering/exiting. Thats part of my idea for this age.

08-19-2005, 08:11 PM
Yeah. I guess you're right. There would have to be no more than 5 levers for sure then because otherwise it would be really impossible. But there would still have to be a few little clues otherwise it would take a long time and be really frustrating unless you got lucky on the first few tries.

I think that there was a little misunderstanding. I meant that I like trial and error puzzles where I try something and I get a reaction. Then I anaylze what happened and then try to determine the correct thing to do. I didn't mean that you should have to randomly fiddle with the levers.

As a little side note... If you have played Uru and beaten Kadish Tolesa then you probably remember the last puzzle where you have to hit the 6 buttons in the correct order. I always fool with the machinery a couple of times before I think things out so I started guessing easy to remember combinations. It turned out that I got it right on the third try, which just about ruined that puzzle for me. The chances of me getting it right by the third try were 1/40, which is still a rather high chance, because I would have tried at least 20 combinations before I really thought through it. The chance that I would get it right by the twentieth try is 1/6, which is a high chance indeed. The lesson learned from this is to not make puzzles too easy for people to get the answers by trying random combinations.

I like the "Source Ages" logo you made. It's cool.

08-19-2005, 10:31 PM
Hey guys...

Long day... but wanted to throw a few thoughts out there. Firstly...ZEUS...I actually expressed the exact same sentiments about the ending of EXILE somewhere else a while ago! Really disappointed with EXILE's ending and wanted something significantly more challening. I also don't like the idea/possibility of solving a puzzle via trial and error. I think people who put forth a solid mental effort & then get "rewarded"... appreciate it more (or should)...if they don't then...too bad... they don't deserve it!

Hey XBOX...I like your drawings, ideas & logo as Zeus said! Basic logic seems to dictate that a collapse is a one time event as Zeus mentioned...or perhaps several collapses on top of an original collapse. If the old man placed each stone there then that also makes sense. However...removing stones from a collapse only to put them back again via a contraption (back & forth back & forth) doesn't particularly excite me....but hey that's just me. I will say in defense of the idea though...that to protect gold with the appearence of a collapsed wall...is a little better...I just feel its kinda' weak. I like the idea of blowing it up somehow...or perhaps ramming into it at full speed with a mine-car....& then it's over. Maybe part or all of the mine-car puzzle is to figure out the track configuration...maybe there is a manual track switch at different points....and once the player sets them appropriately...they can then send a mine-car @ full speed towards the collapsed stones...thereby accessing further controls to ultimately get out of the tunnel at some other point...or find the gold etc...or maybe after you ram or blow up the barricade...that's just how you get out of the tunnel... PERIOD.

To further the thought on blowing up the wall though... maybe part of using dynamite was as XBOX mentioned... through one of those handle boxes with wires running from them to a desired location (can anyone say WILEY COYOTE & ROAD RUNNER!). In this regard... maybe the old man who left this possibility for someone to access the gold at some other point...left the wires running to this point but then the need would be to "arm" if you will...the wires with dynamite...or maybe the dynamite is already planted and you need to simply "attach" the wires appropriately? Or run powder to the appropriate location...

I like the idea of ramming the wall with a mine-car...to expand on this idea a tad further...I know I didn't mention it before but the player doesn't necessarily have to be in the mine-car. They just send one flying and hear a huge crash. If the player was in it... that would be exciting though and they get to see what they did... "first person." I think this ties into a good possibility somehow for a mine puzzle or puzzles and could easily be tied into a story plot as to the intentions of the people or one old man in the shack to protect their/his gold.

To sum it up & repeat...the logic is...that the full momentum necessary to be gained (to break through the stones) can only be achieved by adequately running a car through the appropriate track "sequence" which the player must solve.

Talks amongst yourselves...I'll give you a topic...The Berlin Wall was neither Berlin nor a Wall...but both. Discuss...

"See you" guys tomorrow night hopefully...I'm getting punchy!

08-19-2005, 10:59 PM
Yeah. i thought about a crash through with the cart also. it would be good for the ending or somethign like you said. like you crash through the final wall of the mine and end up in a beautiful, lush area filled with flowers and there is the linking book home and the piece of stone(which i talked about a while back) that you put into place back at the rest area. I also have an idea for the rest area. ill probly write about that 2morrow. and possibly draw a few sketches of it(probly not tho). talk to you guys tomorrow. - Matt(call me Matt by the way. xbox is gay haha

08-19-2005, 11:05 PM
I like the vision Matt! No worries...from now on I will do my best to call you Matt. I'm Dean btw...and you can call me whatever you want...just nothing derogatory please! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'll try to be back late tomorrow...

08-20-2005, 02:37 AM
I was just reading the earlier post about the mechanics of the track (giant rams etc), and I personally think that sounds a bit unrealistic.

What I envisaged was a track that slopes down the whole way (no flat bits, not even at the stopping points) -- though for variety you could have a few ups and downs, of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The way it'd work is that at each "station" there's a cushion thing blocking the track that stops the cart. Then when they pull the lever it folds the cushion thing down flat, letting the cart roll over it and continue back up. The cushions are flipped up automatically when you approach each station (in case you're making the trip twice).

For getting back up to the top, a chain gets attached to it and it gets slowly winched back up by a motor (maybe you have to turn it on somewhere first, maybe it just keeps running all the time [waterfall powered or something]), probably on a separate track from the one you came down on.

See, this way you could have a puzzle where one of the cushions had broken off (or even breaks off as you hit it), making you go right past one of the stations without stopping. And you have to work out an alternative way to get there.

Just some thoughts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

08-20-2005, 09:38 AM
The stopping points have to be flat I think. I think there would have had more cars at one time and slamming a line of 3 or 4 cars into a cushion does not sound very realistic to me. I like the idea of high friction stopping the cars at the stopping points and then something pushing the whole lot of them forward down the next portion of track.

Giant ram is very arbitrary so maybe I should model something for you guys to see. Sorry I haven't put anything new up lately but I was trying to make the cart roll on the track freely. I don't think it is gonna happen so I'll have to animate it. Don't worry about that though because the end effect will seem exactly the same to the player.

Making a giant cushion that animated realisticly when you hit it would be a project all in itself. A collapse would also be difficult.

08-20-2005, 09:57 AM
You guys might want to check this ( http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Main_Page ) place out, it has TONS of information on map making and the such, creating sounds, breakables, the list goes on, if you plan to do complex events (such as a wall colasping or something like that) You'll definatly wanna check this place.

08-20-2005, 12:03 PM
Zeus..I was wondering if fire would be a possibility for an age. Because the source engine is capable of letting certain things catch on fire and having the fire spread realistically isn't it? If so an age with puzzles using fire would be a possibility and could be awesome.

08-20-2005, 12:06 PM
Fire could be a possibility, but I have played through single player and have never seen objects catching fire or fire spreading in an unscripted fashion.

08-20-2005, 12:13 PM
Okay. I would think that you could put like cloth in a room and light it with a torch and then it would all burn up in a few seconds if you set it up right but maybe not. Watever.
I know that this sounds terrible probably..but im just throwing it out...What about a futuristic age where there is lots of metal and concrete objects and everything looks very modern?

- Oh and how does water work in Half Life 2? Can you swim in the water? And if so can you dive down and swim underwater?

08-20-2005, 12:40 PM
Water is great. Alot can be done with water. You can swim above and under water. Metal and concrete are relatively easy to make.

08-20-2005, 05:25 PM
Here's an idea I have for the rest age. It could be like a valley(a circle area surrounded by mountains(hills) on all sides) with a mansion(house watever) in the middle.
There could be as many ages as we want but anyways there could be rooms in the house that each had a window that looked out onto its corresponding age. In those rooms there could be artifacts or files and sketches relating to that age. And in each age's room would be levers or any type of puzzle that had to be solved to unlock that age. For example the water age linking book(if we make that one) would be located behind a door that is behind a waterfall in the back of the house. So for that age's room you would solve some puzzle and then the waterfall would stop or get weaker and then the door behind it would open and you would be able to go to that age. And for the mine age I was thinking maybe you solve a puzzle to get into that ages room and then inside is a switch to blow open the cave leading to the linking book or else you have to move a mine cart blocking the way of the cave entrance or the rock wall idea for in the age that I had or something else like that. What you think? ttyl

08-20-2005, 06:09 PM
Good idea for rest Age. I like it all but I will add something to it. I think that around 3 Ages should be accessible the way you said, by using the clues on the rest Age. The next set of Ages should be accessible by using clues found in the first 3 Ages. That way you can also make a more linear story.

I just found out that there is another group of people who were going to make Myst Ages using the Source engine but they decided to go the cheap route and use a free engine instead. I think that that is a bad idea in the long run. It also seems that most people have gotten permission from Cyan to make their Myst mods but I don't think that we have to worry about that for now. We're not really gonna talk about the main Myst storyline anyway. That was the main issue with the others I think. Cyan wants to make sure that people don't change their story.

I think that we could make the water Age with several islands that had Ancient Greek architecture.

08-20-2005, 06:48 PM
I was thinking that maybe it would be like Exile where after the 3 ages, you get to go to the final age...the only thing is that I have no clue what the story will be cause we need at least a little bit of a story..you can't just have a guy waling around for no reason. Maybe he is stuck in this 'valley' by someone and he has to get through all the ages to get out of it. I will draw some sketches for the water age . I lke the islands with greek architecture. Ill try do something for that.

08-20-2005, 11:27 PM
Hey guys...buuzzzzy bees I see!

I'll try to start in order picking up from my last thread...

If the mine age...is going to be precisely that...a mine age...then the logic to me could have a few ups & downs but typical mines from what I'm researching shouldn't predominantly take on the form of roller-coasters (as fun as that may be). I understand the "pin-ball"/ramming concept perfectly...as mentioned earlier. I wouldn't worry about it being arbitrary...it isn't at all from my view. The mine cars need to move somehow...and this is a great way to "do it" because after all...the entire "age" is a mining age! "Rams" coupled with good track layouts... if thought out well...(perhaps a coil/spring) should make perfect & realistic sense. I would say the stopping points should be flat as well. The other thing to consider in all this is that mine-cars were also not really meant to be ridden in. They were for filling up! Also meaning that a soft "cushioning" stop doesn't make much sense to me. Now if you want to brainstorm that the cars in this age were meant to be "ridden" in...and that's how it was constructed then this concept could be tied into the story-line no problemo. Anyhow...this is not to say that after a stopping point... the track couldn't go up or down regardless of "cushioning" or a metal stopper. I like the idea of "high friction" stopping the cars btw!

Thanks for the link Bubba...very cool.

On to fire...

Well sticking with the mine-age at the moment...I'll just say the obvious and that is that mines...are pretty **** dark! Some fire in there would be very cool...if not...there need to be holes or openings that allow for some light to come in from the surface. If not...is electricity still on the table of possibility?

I like the rest age Matt! Very cool...I'm starting to spawn thousands of ideas now building on this & what you & Zeus have mentioned.

It's getting late & I have another long day tomorrow...so I'll just throw out an idea or two..or three.. for the hell of it in regards to learning something from the three ages to finally apply that knowledge to the 4th.

First though...seeing how we have a few ideas floating around...I want to know something about the significance of the gold? Is there any? Was the barricade put there by someone deliberately?...or was it an accident? Does the gold need to be included in this? Or is the point just to get through this barrier to move on in the game? I think the answers to these questions may help us form a little more of the story one way or the other & move it along a bit. (Could this be a salt mine or a coal mine?...Maybe both? If so... this will also shape the story...)

This is important to me...because then I can suggest more logical ideas for applying what is learned/gained from the mining age to the 4th age. For instance...if it's a gold mine...maybe you need a piece of gold from the mining age to use it somehow in the 4th age. If there is no gold then maybe what was learned in the mine was how to illuminate it? Maybe you can't see the track layout so well until you learn to light some torches. Maybe fire was important in the mine age...water in the water age...and whatever else in the 3rd age... which all need to somehow be applied in the 4th age? What if it's salt or coal...then you need to bring the coal over to the fire age to make something happen? I have TOO MANY more ideas in this regard...but gotta' git!

Talk amongst yourselves...I'll give you a topic...oh no...not this again...

See you guys later...

08-21-2005, 09:04 AM
Again I say it is hard to make high quality fire. Holes in the roof or Fungi/Mushrooms could emit light, but I think that the mine will have to have electricity. It helps with a puzzle I'm thinking of making for the minecar.

I think maybe my saying that I like trial and error puzzles was misunderstood. I meant that there are two types of puzzles. The most common type in Myst is the type where you have to essentially put a combination in somewhere and you have visual/audio clues to figure out the combination from. The second type is the type where you have very little clues to start with and you learn more as you experiment. Maybe the simplest example of this is the underground puzzle on the weird "rocket" Age in the original Myst where you had to use the sound coming from the speaker to determine which way to go next. You could never solve it without experimenting a little because the key to the puzzle lies in the reaction of the machinery itself, not on static clues somewhere else. An example of a static clue puzzle would be the piano puzzle to get to the "rocket" Age. No reaction happens when you try combinations. You need to get all of the clues elsewhere.

Dean, I'm not sure that we should let the player link objects (like a piece of gold) with him, as that has not been done before in Myst. I think it might be possible, but remember that we are using a real time engine, not a point and click.

I was teetering back and forth between real physics and animation for the minecar. I couldn't get the real physics to work right for the minecar. I then realized how difficult it would be to make all of the animations. One would have to be made for every "move" that the minecar could make. So I went back and found out how to make the physics work and I think that I got it working. I should be able to post a short movie of the minecar soon.

08-21-2005, 10:03 PM
Hey Zeus!

No worries on the fire or the linking of an object. Everything is in such an early stage and thus far I'm not even seeing a stage at all when it comes to story other than a couple ideas from Matt. We should probably start crystallizing some ideas even if it's just one or two in regards to story. This can come with simple yes or no's for now. MANY times the story is written first and everything kinda' gets built in around it (I know this isn;t always the case). I'm not saying the entire story has to be completed... just basic concepts that then become flexible to puzzles & ages in this instance to maintain the continuity, logic & stability of the overall game. It always gives us something to go back to and keeps everyone on the same page so that more ideas can be hits rather than misses.

If & when story concern comes up on a deeper brainstorming level...some of the questions I offered could somehow help us/me shape possible story-line per the mine in this instance plus help follow up with Matt's ideas of "gold" & old man... maybe people. GIVE ME SOME ANSWERS ZEUS NOW DAMMIT! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif (Actually I'd rather see an animated mine-car at the moment http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif) By being able to say yes or no...or even an I don't know...we or I may be able to move in a productive direction with the story & further age concept.

Also...being able to apply what you've learned from the other ages can still be a possibility obviously... regardless if you bring something with you or not from an age... I think the story will help us A LOT in this regard.

Lastly...just for the record/future...if & when I suggest something... just want you guys to know that I'm never really too attached to any one idea...especially when I'm rattling them off. If something is solid it usually speaks for itself amongst us anyhow. SOOOoo...shoot em' down or chalk em up... no need to sugar coat anything with me!

Looking forward to seeing that mine-car run!

08-21-2005, 10:08 PM
I'm thinkin...

You are probably not going to get to see the minecar tonight unless you feel like staying up late. I will say that the minecar is using the physics engine now though. No painstaking Uru animation for me.

As for story, I really think that should wait a few days as I'm still not totally sure what can and can't be done with the engine. I think that we should start it out with the player finding a linking book he knows nothing about. He would learn about where he is at as he plays through.

I was thinking that the main puzzle them of the water/Greek architecture Age could be chess. What do you think of that idea? I think I know of a good chess puzzle that is logical. I'm not going to disclose it's details for a while, but you would need basic knowledge of chess to solve it. Chess has been in Myst before so it wouldn't really be arbitrary. Solving the puzzle really wouldn't make you make the right moves. It would just require you to make the moves that others made in the past.

08-21-2005, 10:21 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif No mine car http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Just kidding Zeus!

No worries per mine-car or story for that matter...I'm ready when you are (that is after 12:00 at night for another week! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)!


Just saw your Greek idea...will edit in a minute! I'm actually Greek...so I'm going to very critical of all your ideas! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I like the idea...what do you think of the idea for making chess not only something "ancient" but something entirely new & different than what people are accustomed to. Like "Wizard's chess in Harry Potter...or something. Do you want it to be traditional....or maybe the chess board after moving a few pieces rotates to reveal something of importance that is hidden. I do know that many people do not like chess...so if we could make it exciting somehow that would be good! Yeah basics are good...but if it will be a major puzzle then we'll need to complicate it obviously... (I agree it wouldn't be arbitrary)

hmmmm....very interesting...here are some ideas....so are you suggesting that the entire age in a way "remembers" how the player actually explored? Let's say if you go into one area of this age first... something in the ground (after it is walked on or adjusted) moves into "place" so to speak. This puzzles the player & they simply move on...then another area the same thing occurs and then another and another maybe? Each area that "moved" or was walked upon/adjusted maybe had some type of writing or a symbol of a particular chess piece... that the player can later move on the chess board puzzle. If they move them in the correct order (the order they were pressed/explored then perhaps this is one approach to the puzzle? Another approach could be that maybe this Ancient Greek age is the 4th & final age... and the "moving"/adjusting/walking upon of pieces or platforms might actually be found in each of the other 3 ages....which then requires the player to remember the pieces/WHATEVER that they adjusted/walked upon...and in the correct order ultimately after expolring the other 3 ages?

08-21-2005, 10:41 PM
Uh, not quite. I need to work on it a while before I release any more info.

I was hoping for around 7 Ages total but that might be shooting high. We'll see.

I don't like how short Myst games are. I would love to think I'm approaching the end and then get a whole new set of Ages. It would seem much more epic that way. That is the thing I liked the most about Uru. I'm not sure what the people at Cyan were thinking when they released the "To Dni" expansion though. That was a terrible add-on

And I have not forgotten about the links on page 4. They are still there waiting for me.


08-21-2005, 10:44 PM
Oh my goodness?! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Well...I'm glad you told me that! Yes we will! those little insights help me A LOT Zeusmeister!

08-22-2005, 12:55 AM
Nice ideas. I drew a little junk for a minute yesterday but I need to finish it. The idea I had for the water/ Greek (i guess) age was this...there are 3 islands in the middle of the ocean (size doesnt matter) and they are in a circle surrounding a pool of water(lagoon) in the middle. Now there are 3(possibly more i guess = more puzzles) 'gates' that are below the surface of the water. Once you complete a puzzle a gate goes up and blocks water from coming into the lagoon..so after all gates are up, then the lagoon is dried up (there might have to be a little drainage hole or something idk) and there is a locked gate/door thing that is bllocking the way into the tunnel thing on the lagoon floor in the middle of it. Another puzzle would be solved to open that and then you go down and either solve another puzzle to get to the linking book or it is just down a ways and already accessible. Or maybe the tunnel on the lagoon floor leads to a new lagoon or dry area(kinda like in the movie atlantis..a dry area under water)where you then pop up and solve another set of puzzles or maybe thats where the Greek aspact comes into play idk. Thats all. Later

08-22-2005, 04:19 AM
I'm thinking I probably described the cushion thing wrong. I'm not really sure how to describe it actually -- I guess that's part of the problem.

I was sort of thinking of something shaped like this: http://www.latoys.com/playmobil/images/4391_bumper_stop.jpg , but with something more like this http://www.miata.net/garage/suspension/bumper-rear-fitted-1-stamp.jpg to cushion the impact a bit. Though you're right about mining cars not really being intended to ride in. I guess I'm also halfway thinking of the opening sequence of Half-Life 1 (and Blue Shift)... that was pretty cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

(The shape in the image above is more elaborate than what I was thinking of -- I was thinking of a fairly simple two-d rectangle sorta shape, so that it could be folded flat against the ground fairly easily.)

08-22-2005, 01:06 PM
Are you going to put up the video Zeus? It would be awesome to see if it's ready.

08-22-2005, 02:00 PM
I only have 2 different track pieces made so far and it would be really beta-ish. If you still wanna see a movie give me an e-mail so I can send it. I couldn't use GeoCities and now I don't even have an avatar because I maxed out my bandwidth trying to get the movie to work.

08-22-2005, 03:38 PM
haha. have you heard of putfile..you could upload it there..putfile (http://putfile.com/)

08-22-2005, 03:45 PM
Thanks for the link.

It is taking forever to upload a 5 MB movie. Not the one you will see though.

YES!!! My avatar is back!!!

08-22-2005, 03:50 PM
hmmm yo DS!! uhm....who am i ..i'm a stalker....i'm following you to kill..lol...and foreveryone who doesnt get that.srry...i'm friend of dan's....don't worry..you can stop calling 911......he wanted me to model..but i'm to lazy and stupid to use xsi.....however i do lookforward to..(mabye) if DS let's me.... putting levels together.... i lent him the HL2 code!! i rule over your world DSman--or zeusmiester.....buwahahahaha!!!....srry... okay...uhm..my idea was waht if in the end of the minecar level..you grab the book/myst pivcies-thingy..and then as part of the story line a evil force/badguy/person/trap "writes" ina bunch of water or mabye unleasehes a trap.it drains from the lake as a last mesure....to catch intruders...and in a scripted even you escape..flying along the tracks..barely making it out..it woul be scripted...and it would inject a "evil guy" as part of the story line and it would put alil action....zeus..or DS shot it down when i talked with him..but wahdo you guys think?

08-22-2005, 04:15 PM
I will post a movie tonight, but not right now as I'm busy. Sorry guys. I promise it'll be there by midnight.


08-22-2005, 09:24 PM
I couldn't finish making the movie earlier because I just had to play the Myst 5 demo. It was sortof dissapointing as some glitch killed the framerate whenever I looked at Escher. The only puzzle was also way way too easy to solve. The enviroment was nice but as I said the framerate was terrible even on my new rig that has: 2.8 Ghz, 512 MB, GeForce Fx5200


The place shown in this movie was just created by me in the past half hour, what is why it has no detail etc. It was made just to show off the physics and the beta minecar. The gun used in the movie is called the Zero Point Energy Cannon and was used for its gravitation ability to show off the physics. It WILL NOT be featured in the actual game. It is just for demo purposes. The lighting is kindof weird because I just created a pile of lights and distributed them about the room (you don't see them because a "light" is invisible.) Notice the real-time shadows near the end. Sorry about the really low resolution (and the fact that you can't hear sound) but thats about all I could do for today. Hope you like it. Tell me what you think when you finish watching it. If your resolution is really high I suggest turning it down for a few minutes so that the video takes up more of the screen. I will probably be on for a while so ASK QUESTIONS!!!


08-22-2005, 11:52 PM
That's nice. The mine cart looked real good and the physics on the track looked good. You could get some major speed if you built it right. I can't wait to see a fully textured cart and the view from inside of it while it goes down a steep hill.

08-23-2005, 12:54 AM
In order:

Uecasm I see the "stopper" images you offered to help show where you're coming from...they make perfect sense, look good & I envisioned something along these lines as well.
As long as there is no "inflatable/cushion raft" (for lack of a better way to write how part of your description painted an image for me) "coming out" I think the images certainly are logically based & would work.

WhoamIDanman: No offense is meant by anything I'm about to write... I don't think I speak your language or something...however I was able to decipher your idea...sounds like an interesting notion but personally (again no offense) not sure how much I like it. I do like the idea of an "evil guy" somehow being involved...if possible... maybe...

Zeus: All I can say is for a half hour's work...you accomplished something very cool! The mine-car looks great and the "propelling" of it forward was realistic. As Matt excitedly expressed...I look forward to seeing some textures, "inside views" as well as speed/acceleration of the mine-car! No pressure though...lots of things to be done I'm sure!


08-23-2005, 09:12 AM
sorry about that...i was pressed for time..me+ no time + no l33t typing skillz = bad spelling and stuff....srry...yeah..uhm...i meant like you know i know you guys havent decided anything with the story... the thing i was talking about i was thinking of indiana jones and the temple of doom? the mine shaft ride.... after you grab (wahtever the important thing is) the (evil villian) unleashes a (trap, or writes in some water) and then you just have a scripted escape, as you have no abilitiy to die in the myst series, either taking you further into the earth (which could mabye lead to another level where you have to get back to or find a linking book to the surface) or you just get back to the surface... well, whatever...as zeus told me a few days ago..."your (me) not here to help with anything but provide bad ideas..." lol...can't let'im down...

08-23-2005, 09:48 AM
I'm just gonna start saying random things so don't think that they are orderly.

1. The video you recently saw was created on a PC that has 2.0 Ghz P4, 256 Mb, and a GeForce3, which means that you won't need a supercomputer to play this. (Which I sadly can't say about End of Ages.)

2. The video you saw was at 160x100, which that's why it looked so bad. I'll try to make it 320x200 next time.

3. Quote: "That's nice. The mine cart looked real good and the physics on the track looked good. You could get some major speed if you built it right." As Matt correctly stated, it has now become a matter of building the track right, instead of animating the cart by hand.

4. I've got a pretty good idea of how to start developing the mine and the water Ages. Maybe you should discuss other possible Ages and maybe the rest Age with the big mansion structure. Maybe it could have lots of secret passages. Maybe we could even throw in a fireplace.

5. Sadly, I don't think that many people are interested in this right now because people are scared away by the fact that it runs on the Source engine and they would need to buy Half Life 2 to help make it or to play it. I think that dishing out $50 for a great engine is better than spending incredible amounts of time to get some free garbage working. Many people are hoping to get the tools used to create Uru so that they can expand Until Uru, but I think that the power of these tools is very limited and it turns out that the Source engine also works online. As a matter of fact, I think that it is possible to make a Source Ages server that you could "join" at any time and automatically download the files nessesary to play. I'm also pretty sure that you can play multiplayer with up to 64 people on one server. (I have played games with 54, so the number is high anyway) I don't think that a multiplayer version could ever be created unless several more people who know at least as much as I do join the project, and I don't think that that will happen any time soon.

6. I have now started to texture models as I make them, so most of the stuff you see from now on will at least have some sort of texture. Sorry for the pure white minecar and track.

7. Uecasm, I'm not sure how the barriers you have set up would move out of the way. I also think that high friction is gonna stop the minecar, because slamming it into a barrier does not sound very appealing to me. If you have watched my movie, you have seen that the minecar might get going pretty fast.

8. If anybody reading this hasn't seen the movie, here's the link.


08-24-2005, 12:00 AM
Hey Zeus!

Just wanted to follow up here to your inquiry of tracks I've made (music that is). I'll consider sending one along to you... but first give me your e-mail & we'll just chat bit! Actually you can e-mail me first if you like at dkrommydas@hotmail.com (Give me a good subject so that I can tell it's you & I don't discard your e-mail as JUNK!).

Now to your points:

1) That's good news for us but bad news for EoA.

2) No worries...understood & I still say the mine-car & track looked good!

3) Looking forward to this & know it will take some time!

4) Sounds good...go for it...I'm sure you'll let us know how things are going with those 2. It would be easier for me to discuss the rest area (that is...if the rest area is decidedly going to be providing main access to all other ages?) if I had an exact number to work with. Will all ages be accessed from here & here alone? Is 7 the number we should be DEFINITIVELY shooting for? I think this would enable the brainstormers to offer not only secret passageway ideas to specific areas that make sound logical sense....but in the process know where a fireplace would be well suited & why...& who knows all the other tons of ideas that will come. I think this will save energy & point ideas in the direction of sound ones rather than continous rejected ones...thus saving TIME! If anyone disagrees please tell me I'm alone on this & to shut up! We could also just say for starters let's all decide on what the 7 (or whatever the the number is) are going to be & go from there.

5.) I like your thinking here & feel it has potential! While I do not currently own half-life...for this project I certainly will buy it.

6.) Don't apologize! Personally... I like seeing the process & will appreciate the texturing more from this.

7.) I think that the high friction coupled with some type of stopper could work well together. However...what probably needs to be considered is if the player is to continue from the point they stopped with the SAME car on the same track. Or do they change the track's direction & continue with the same car? Or do they get into another car... at another station & then move on? Can you go back & forth in the mine-car or is it a one time deal? AND lastly...if there is no stopper...then is the player in direct control of the "high friction" to apply it when he/she pleases? Or is there a stopper/station that acts as an indicator of where the high friction should be applied? Or is it automatic?

Enough questions for ya!????

OK I'm outta' here...until tomorrow after 12:00 somtime...


08-25-2005, 09:04 AM
1. I just entered a stupid alias for that yahoo account. I didn't know until now that you could ever see it.

2. Half Life 2 now costs $30, not $50.

08-25-2005, 05:54 PM
Cool. I might get it pretty soon then for only 30 bucks

08-25-2005, 10:12 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Zeus...I like the alias...it's funny!

And just to follow up...whenever you're ready...feel free to put in a semi "descriptive" request for sound, general ambience or music... & I'll see what I can do for you. Thanks also for the leeway if it isn't fully polished...as it will at first be a sample to get feedback on what to keep/omit/enhance/add etc.

QUESTION: I've noticed at Best Buy the Half-Life Series in a complete package...would you recommend this or just go with Half-Life 2? It was a while ago but I don't seem to recall that it was too expensive.

08-25-2005, 11:01 PM
Saw your post...
As far as I know, there are two Half Life games available in stores now. There is Half Life Complete, which is a cumulation of Half Life 1 and all of its expansions. You DO NOT want Half Life 1. Half Life 2 is currently a stand-alone product. No expansions have been released yet. There is a "special edition," but that is only for people who want the strategy guide and all that.

The cheapest version of HL 2 is all that you would need. I've seen it at Wal-Mart for $30.

The Source SDK does not come on the installation disk, but is downloadeable as sortof an optional patch. You're gonna need high speed internet, as the download is around 300 MB.

08-25-2005, 11:26 PM
Cool Zeus...thanks for the feedback.

What is this Half Life 2 & Counter Strike CD combo? I noticed some low prices on eBay:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A...lf+Life+2&category0= (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2 F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=Half+Life+2&category0=)

There is also a game listed here as: "Half-Life And Half-Life 2 Steam Account Includes Source" one bid currently @ $17.50 ?????

I think I understand the process you describe & will ask questions when & if I need to. Just to confirm though...ultimately after getting this all set up...the point is to be able to play the game we/you are creating right?

08-26-2005, 08:49 AM
"What is this Half Life 2 & Counter Strike CD combo? I noticed some low prices on eBay:"

Half Life 2 comes with several games. Counter-Strike Source is one of them. You cannot get a copy of HL 2 that does not have CS Source. They all have it. Some people are just writing it in the item description.

"Just to confirm though...ultimately after getting this all set up...the point is to be able to play the game we/you are creating right?"

Yes, and you could help work on it. You'd be able to do everything I can do.

08-26-2005, 05:47 PM
I just played the Syberia II demo. That is an awesome game. I am going to get both of them. Have you guys played either one of those games? It would be awesome to make a game with that style but it would obviously be a lot harder to make. Maybe that could be our next game haha. Anyways have you been making anything for the game this week or whats up?

08-26-2005, 07:34 PM
Never played Siberia. I'll try the demo since you say it's good.

Progress has started off slow this week because I'm texturing as I model now and I have discovered that texturing is something that takes an hour to learn and a year to master.

I haven't done anything that is ready for you to see yet though. I'm beginning work on a new Age and I think it is best that I not show any of it until I've got a good amount of content to show. (Which I don't right now.) If I showed you it right now, I think it would ruin the effect. You will, however, continue to watch the slow evolution of the mine Age, which I'm going to continue to implement with more tracks pieces, texturing them as I go.

08-26-2005, 09:47 PM
Hey Zeus...Hey Matt

I've seen some screen shots to Syberia II... & I like what I have seen! Once I get a little time I'll try out the demo as well...I haven't even tried out the MYST V demo yet...and it's probably a good thing otherwise from the little I've heard/read... I may be tempted to start ripping things apart & starting arguments...

Anyhow back to the game...I'm just going to post what I wrote/questioned a thread or two ago in regards to developing the rest area & deciding on a total number of ages:

"It would be easier for me to discuss the rest area (that is...if the rest area is decidedly going to be providing main access to all other ages?) if I had an exact number to work with. Will all ages be accessed from here & here alone? Is 7 the number we should be DEFINITIVELY shooting for?"

A couple answers in this regard could maybe help Matt & I bounce some ideas off you Zeus as well as each other while you're working on the mine-car age & texturing.

Lata! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

08-26-2005, 09:54 PM
That is a hard question to answer. I don't think I can't say at this point that 7 is the number to shoot for, but somethin close to that should be about right. Suggestions for the general look of it would be appreciated.

08-26-2005, 10:28 PM
OK Zeus... fair enough!

SO... we've got the Mine-Car, the Ancient Greek, possibly a Water & a Rest Age & there's a "no go" on a Fire age.

Zeus mentioned that he likes the idea of being able to access 3 ages from direct hints gathered via Rest Age & added that perhaps another 3 or 2 (to be decided) can be accessed via clues from the first 3 ages.

To help organize our thoughts with some foresight in the developing of ideas including "accessibility" (seeing how accessibility is going to be important) ... we should or Zeus should probably decide sooner rather than later upon which 3 will be directly accessible via clues from the rest age & which 3 or 2 or whatever...will not.

For now ideas for ages! Seeing how I absolutely love Spire & I read a recent post of yours Zeus that mentioned your love for Spire...I was wondering what type of Age we could come up with that is similar yet different to Spire if interested? What do you think Matt?

08-26-2005, 10:31 PM
You can't beat Spire's visuals. I think that we could probably make an Age like that. If it had big drops we would need to add invisible walls, as I don't want the Relto book thingy. (It was ****.) I don't want to put invisible walls anywhere except for deadly drops.

Do you remember that stupid puzzle in Er'cana where you had to make the elevator work in the baking room so that you could go up top, walk across the upper walkway, come down the ladder, and then push a teeny little piece of concrete into the 2 foot gap in the concrete so you could walk across. Jumping would easily allow you to get across that. It was a ridiculous puzzle, from a practical standpoint.

08-26-2005, 10:47 PM
"I don't want the Relto book thingy. (It was ****.)" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif AMEN...

I think I'm confusing the puzzle you mention with another one or conveniently forgetting it! Either way... I think I get where you're coming from...& we don't want ridiculous to be sure. I don't mind invisible walls if needs be.

Gotta' git for now...have some other late-night work to do!

08-26-2005, 11:29 PM
neo - that elevator puzzle was one from PotS. You know the age with the train tracks outside and the water-stirring fans inside? That's Er'cana.

Having high-friction bits to stop the cart would work ok, I guess. But how about a bit more explanation for them? Put a brake lever on the cart, which auto-engages when the cart gets near a station (thematically triggered by passing over a special switch in the track), and then the cart will slow down and stop, accompanied by lots of screeching and sparks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Then the player just needs to release the lever and the cart will start moving again.

And again, maybe the trigger switch at one of the important stations is damaged and so the player goes right past without stopping, and has to work out how to get back to it.

08-27-2005, 12:00 AM
Do you have a general design look for the things that will push the carts out of the docks. If not I could try to get and draw some ideas otherwise I won't bother.
I will be on vacation until next Saturday but I should still have some internet access so I may check up on you guys once a day or so. Can't wait to see some more updates.
-I'll still be here tomorrow though so I'll talk to you guys then.

08-27-2005, 08:32 AM
I have a general design for them, but I need to learn how to make dynamic objects first, so I can make them move.

08-27-2005, 09:54 PM
Hey uecasm:

Please accept my apologies for not including you in the above (previous) threads concerning idea brainstorming & opinions. I was writing the threads based on the current ones & by not seeing your name... I left it out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif I'm sorry if I "discluded" you...didn't mean to in anyway whatsoever! SO ...what do you think about a Spire-Like age or other age ideas?

I agree that further explanation is needed as to the control of the carts...its important...I know I fired away several questions or possibilities on this earlier as well & I think Zeus will definitely get to it...he'll have to!

Off I go to my forum topic & to respond to you over there...

Have a lot of late-night work keeping me busy guys but will be back to brainstorm again soon.

08-28-2005, 03:44 AM
Don't worry about it -- I only read/post here sporadically anyway http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think Spire was pretty frickin' awesome, actually -- just a little pocket of atmosphere hovering over the surface of a cool star or something.

Second only to Ahnonay, in my opiniom. Although one other Age that I've always wanted to see was Catherine's discworld (thats my #3 favourite http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif).

08-30-2005, 07:45 AM
@ Zeusmeister

Hallo there

I want to make my own worlds and i've half-life 2 too. Where can i download the SDK without registration.
Help plz

08-30-2005, 08:31 AM
Do you have a Steam account? You can definately get the SDK if you have Half Life 2.

08-30-2005, 08:44 AM
Do you have the "Play Games" window? that looks like this...


08-30-2005, 08:51 AM
Oh yes thanks, i must be blind.
currently downloading it.

sorry dude

08-30-2005, 08:54 AM
I spent 1 whole day trying to get the SDK to work. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

When you are done downloading that SDK come back because you have to get Softimage:XSI and that is not the easiest thing to download and activate because the directions are almost misleading.

Are you interested in joining the project?

08-30-2005, 08:59 AM
Slow down - step by step.
This is not the first time i build maps.
Some years ago half-life (1). At this time i used worldcraft.

08-30-2005, 09:03 AM
Are you asking if you have to use Softimage? I think you do, because you need the Valve plugins to export the physics models and so on.

You use Hammer to create the actual maps, but much of the art is done in Softimage.

09-01-2005, 01:46 PM
I have been very busy lately so I haven't been able to do much but I will hopefully be able post a new screenie by tomorrow. I'm not sure what happened to gamer0_13. Maybe he didn't wanna help and just wanted to know how to get the SDK. If you don't want to model and put together Ages then don't bother buying HL2 any time soon. It will be a long time before anything playable is ready. I'm gonna try to get people interested by making a high-quality movie.


09-01-2005, 11:08 PM
Hey Zeus!

No idea what happened to gamer!?

I have been pretty busy myself lately...just enough for a quick peak in & then out! No worries about my interest though! As you mentioned:

"It will be a long time before anything playable is ready..."

...I understand this is definitely going to take some time. I look forward to seeing the movie...maybe I can also put some music together for your movie?

Noticed quite a few responses in the "Bumbed Out" forum...so over I go...

09-02-2005, 12:03 AM
Do you know a program that can be used to record a video via software rather than by using a webcam? That would make the video quality much higher. Adding music would be great but I don't know how to add sound to a .avi file. Maybe you do.

09-02-2005, 12:56 AM
Hey Zeus...

I haven't done it but I've heard of many different ways. I'm not sure which method you'll prefer but here's just a few links that may lead you in the right direction. There's a lot out there...if you're still too busy I'll look into it further over the next several days!
Audio should be & is certainly possible once we find something you can/want to use...we'll see!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://www.fraps.com/ Be sure to check out (download) the "example samples" - very good quality for video & music (think this one is free btw)



09-02-2005, 04:56 PM
I was just browsing the games coming out this fall and I encountered Black and White 2, which happens to be the one of the best looking games that I have ever seen. You can zoom in until you can see individual blades of grass and then zoom out seamlessly so that you can see the entire world. (which can be 15 miles across) If you like real-time strategy games I definately suggest you check it out.

09-02-2005, 10:30 PM
Hey Zeus!

Sounds cool. I'll be sure to check it out just as soon as I try out the MYST V demo and the SYBERIA demos you recommended...

What did you think of the fraps software?

09-03-2005, 08:06 AM
I will try it, but it appears that I can only record 30 second movies with the demo.

Mr Zebe D
09-03-2005, 11:35 AM
That version of FRAPS is free. If you want the full version you have to pay for it.

09-03-2005, 04:43 PM
What part of "I can only record 30 second movies with the demo," did you not understand?

09-04-2005, 01:09 AM
You can only record 30 second increments, so you could record 30 then rigth away another 30 etc. It's really easy to use and you can take screens easyily so I like FRAPS alot.

09-04-2005, 09:08 AM
I still haven't had any free time to work on anything but since today is Sunday I will hopefully get some.

Mr Zebe D
09-04-2005, 01:52 PM
I read that as of the demo.

09-04-2005, 02:58 PM
Check out these screenies for Black and White II.
They are in-game real-time screenshots.
The third picture is a little piece of the huge world you see in the first two pictures. The detail is amazing. Any yes, this game uses depth-of-field in real-time, like Revelation.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif (No real-time game on the market today uses real-time depth-of-field.)


I will post something or other on the Source Ages sometime tonight.

09-04-2005, 04:38 PM
yeah B&W2 looks awesome. i will probably get it. it seems like a lot more fun than Age of Empires 3 although that has some insane graphics too. i like Age of Mythology the best out of the traditional rts games. but B&W is awesome

09-04-2005, 06:27 PM
Do you play AOM (online that is), and are you good at it?

09-04-2005, 08:09 PM
i dont actually have it haha but i love it i could get it now that its really cheap but ill wait for number 2 i think(hopefully)

09-04-2005, 09:59 PM
I see you don't know everything about Ensemble Studios. There isn't going to be an Age of Mythology 2. They announced that ages ago. Buy the first on. It is awesome. I still play it about twice a week.

09-05-2005, 07:54 PM
Have you done anything new lately? I would love to see some pics of anything really.

09-05-2005, 08:26 PM

Here is a rook from an Age I've been starting. The red wireframe in the second picture shows its physics model. You can see that the detail on the physics model is toned down a bit, but not enough to be noticeable. It is totally done and has already been tested in-game. It took a long time to get the texture just right but now I can switch the texture image and it should look right even if the texture has a more noticeable pattern. I'm gonna continue with the minecar but I really need to work a couple of hours in a row to get anywhere with that. I'll hopefully get time soon.

09-05-2005, 09:12 PM
Thats sweet. Thats age should be good if you get the chess game to work right. Can't wait to see more

09-05-2005, 11:17 PM
Nice rook Zeus! Very cool. Looking forward to some more free time to further brainstorm soon!

As far as video recording goes...I'll try and look around a bit more for both a program that may not only be of good quality but is also free. Not sure how likely that will be though...but worth a shot.

Talk soon...

09-06-2005, 10:16 PM
Hey Zeus...just a follow up per video recording...if you haven't noticed already on the original link (site) I gave... there are a number ( I think 11) of free software packages that may or may not do the trick for you:

http://all-streaming-media.com/record-video-stream/all-...cording-software.htm (http://all-streaming-media.com/record-video-stream/all-streaming-video-recording-software.htm)

Worth a shot to see if you like them or can even use them. Thus far 37 bucks for FRAPS aint bad or as Matt suggested maybe record 30 secs & then another & so on.

OK...so I'm going to repost something I wrote a couple pages back to try & get things going again:

SO... what we have to work with at the moment is a Mine-Car, an Ancient Greek, a Water, now a "Spire-like," & a Rest Age.

Zeus mentioned that he likes the idea of being able to access 3 ages from direct hints gathered via the Rest Age & added that perhaps another 3 or 2 (to be decided) can be accessed via clues from experiencing the first 3 ages.

Maybe we could decide on one or two more possible ages? Any ideas? Then once we decide this... we can then decide which 3 ages will be accessed by the rest age & which 2 or 3 (to be decided) will be accessed by hints/secrets from each of the other 3 ages. Then from there obviously we'll start having a lot of ideas to work with. I don't know about you guys but once I have a clear idea through this structure...I will be able to start brainstorming further story ideas and integrating them into details of the ages themselves...& ultimately be more productive...

SO I'll just suggest another idea or two for an age(s)...

How bout a deserted island type of place that can only be reached by a clue/hint (boat/transport) from the water age? As Zeus mentioned the underwater possibility... maybe to access this age you must travel underwater to a particular point & then surface? Maybe after the above water age you can have an entire age that takes place underwater? Just throwing something new out there...& just in case yes I know Matt mentioned the raft or boat idea in regards to approaching the Mine Car age...I'm offering this idea to be seen in a different way...

Take care guys...talk soon

09-11-2005, 04:33 PM
Has anyone created myst, Riven or Uru type Ages, with the map editor that comes with farcry, farcry type Myst Ages now that would be cool

not sure if this has been ask before or not
if so what or who has created ages in farcry or doom 3 ages would be cool too without monsters in them

09-11-2005, 07:56 PM
Sorry Rob can't say that I have...not my specialty...maybe one of the other guys will answer when they see!

Hey Zeus! Just a quick question...I know you're probably busy busy...but just wanted to know how your "movie" is coming along? No pressure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif By the way the pictures of Black & White look pretty amazing. I especially like the first 2 shots. I also found another possible mine-car related image that was actually completed in animation... might be of some use to you:


09-15-2005, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Rob4linux:
Has anyone created myst, Riven or Uru type Ages, with the map editor that comes with farcry, farcry type Myst Ages now that would be cool

not sure if this has been ask before or not
if so what or who has created ages in farcry or doom 3 ages would be cool too without monsters in them

Farcry is not good for making Myst ages. I don't think that you can even import models into it. Same for Doom 3.

As for how my movie is coming along, I haven't had any time lately but I got a couple hours now so I'll try and get something done. I just realized that in classic Myst games the first page has the linking panel. (not a middle one, which was done in Uru to add those linking cloths) I'm making a new book now but I'm having trouble making animations. I'll get it to work eventually.

09-15-2005, 04:47 PM
cool. glad to see some work is being done

09-16-2005, 05:09 PM
COOL! Glad I found this thread. I'd like to help, but I'm a 3dsMax user....

I have HL2 and tried to do something with the SDK, but I couldn't really do much (I'm not much of a lvl designer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif ).

Because of my recent obsession of MYST, I too have wanted to create an Age/game.

09-16-2005, 08:05 PM
Are you the kind of person who likes to sit back and make models, textures, and animations? That's just what I need. I can put them in the game. I can show you how too. It's pretty easy once you know how. I'm using Softimage: XSI, which is native to HL 2, but you could get used to that in a couple of hours.

09-16-2005, 08:44 PM
I can do models.... I can do textures, but I havn't worked with them on a regular basis (I jump from model to model pretty much).

I've tried XSI and couldn't get too comfortable with it in the trial . Speaking of trial, that's the only version I know of that's "free".

I havn't been able to do rendered scenes because I don't know enough about lights.... anyway, I can do animations too. Just let me know. PM me with concept pics of items or shots and I'll get the models you want...or try to.

09-16-2005, 08:57 PM
I'm gonna say this in the thread so others can see. If you have HL 2, you get a version of Softimage free. You don't have to render scenes with lights. You just need to make models and texture them. Can you make foliage and plants?

09-16-2005, 09:34 PM
You can??! HOW?!

I'm good with mechanical (or man made) things really. Organics aren't my strength. =\

09-17-2005, 07:52 AM
I made a 10-step tutorial that shows you how to get started when you currently only have Half-Life 2 installed. Tell me when you complete it or encounter a problem. Make sure you view it actual size. (It's a 4000x2000) The last two steps could be a little bit off. If they are let me know.


I have modeled a new, much better linking book but I need a black leather (or lizardskin) texture for the cover and a worn paper texture for the inside. (Just to confirm it, any picture file type can be changed to be a texture file.) Maybe you could find something Neo since you seem to be excellent at searching. I'm gonna bump/normal map it this time also, so if I get a good leather texture I think it'll look pretty good.

The pictures would need to be at least 300x375 pixels.

09-17-2005, 12:31 PM
Uh oh, you maxed out your bandwidth...

I think I know the problem...
Every time someone views this thread, this forum downloads the pictures from your Geocities account and displays them. This forum does not keep copies of the pics you post in it. (As demonstrated by my lack of avatar a couple weeks back.) This downloading all of the pictures every time will max out your bandwidth really fast. That's why I use links instead.

09-17-2005, 01:13 PM
Yes Zeus... you're absolutely right! I usually choose to just use links anyway but I thought I'd go a different route this time. Go figure! Because the images...MAXED OUT again... it's gonna' take another hour or so for the links to work. Sorry...& next time I will definitely not be using direct images unless it's just one or something.














09-17-2005, 03:38 PM
Nice textures. I like the alligator frame one. Inside or outside of the frame. Nice work.

09-17-2005, 04:05 PM
Hey Matt!

I'm not sure you know this or not...but just wanted to clarify to you that I didn't model any of those textures. I simply found the images & linked them here. I still appreciate your compliment though! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Zeus... I know several of the pictures have to at least meet your pixel requirements but sorry if any of them do not...just saw your pixel minimums! DOH!

09-17-2005, 04:32 PM
Haha I know you found them not made them

09-19-2005, 04:51 PM
I've worked with the textures some but I'm still thinkin about what to do. Neo, you might want to check out this guy's site. He tries to compose Mystish music as well.

09-19-2005, 05:09 PM
Sounds cool Zeus...if you want any feedback feel free to ask.

What site are you talking about??

09-19-2005, 05:15 PM
I can't believe I forgot to post the link. You might like his work and then you might not, but I figured I'd give it a shot.

09-19-2005, 05:19 PM
No worries Zeus...I'll let you know what I think shortly...

09-19-2005, 05:21 PM
This guy said that we could use his site for our project if we want and he also is willing to help. site (http://s13.invisionfree.com/Reh_Dovah_Dnee/index.php?)
Looks pretty good.

09-19-2005, 05:30 PM
That music is great. I love all of the songs. Sounds just like Myst. Awesome find.

09-19-2005, 05:30 PM
What guy Matt? I joined his site but it seems to be empty???

I thought that the music was pretty good too. If you read the legal terms you will quickly see that we can use it in our game for free.

09-19-2005, 05:35 PM
Wow. Awesome. That music would work well.

That guy im not exactly sure who he is but he said that we could be administrators of the forum we use or something like that. Whatever. I am just telling you that we could use it.

09-19-2005, 05:50 PM
Zeus...thanks for the link. Very cool music...I enjoyed it all. I'll go back for a longer visit soon. I listened to 6 of his compositions...

If you're looking for music along these lines...I should be able to compose something to your liking. Ultimately... when & if the time comes... don't EVER be afraid to tell me if something stinks or just isn't what you're looking for. I work very well with honesty in addition to solid ideas... i.e. concept art, video or at least descriptions of what the music will be applied to...and of course as I'm guessing you have done here...pointing me to examples of music that you would like to have something similar to.

Also...I am currently in the works of purchasing another sound module (in addition to the one I have that is) as well as implementing the Garritan Orchestral Libraries into my sound resources. The Garritan Orchestral Libraries are of considerable quality for the price. But nothing beats the real thing to be sure... Audition a few if you like:


Keep in mind that these examples aren't exactly ambient! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But they can be made to be used in an ambient context no problemo...

Just saw your comment on using the music from the site... Do whatever you feel like Zeus...feel free to recycle & use whatever you like. When & if you decide you want something specifically made for your game/ages... I wouldn't mind giving it a shot for you.

Per the web-site...I thought the exact same thing as Zeus...it did seem quite empty! But who knows... maybe we'd "liven" it up for him!

09-19-2005, 05:52 PM
He talked to me on the bungie.net forums i have set up. The link to the bungie site is in my signature.

09-19-2005, 06:02 PM
I just joined the Bungie site. Any way I can become an admin?

I'll let you know as soon as you can do something Neo. You also have some experience editing sounds right? You could probably make all of them if you wanted.

09-19-2005, 07:17 PM
Yes Zeus...I have some experience editing sounds as well. You'll have to see if they turn out to your liking or not. While I'm more musically/composing oriented...sound editing can be quite fun. Soundscapes shouldn't be difficult. ALL the extra sounds could get overwhelming but I'll take it as it comes & be sure to let you know if I need help!


By the way... Zeus... I don't have your "Sizzle Wazizzle" or whatever it was address anymore. Would you mind e-mailing me again at dkrommydas@hotmail.com so I can send you along a couple pieces of music & eventually sounds?

09-19-2005, 09:52 PM
I'll write it here so anybody can e-mail me if they want.


Have you joined the Bungie forum yet? It looks like a good place to use as we can set up our own forums and so on. It will be much easier to organize everything that way.

Matt, can you make an 800x600 version of the Source Ages banner that you have in your siggie?

09-19-2005, 10:37 PM
No not yet...will do though. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Thanks for the e-mail!


09-20-2005, 12:44 PM
Wow Neo, Gleam is really incredible. I like how it doesn't excessively repeat itself. It keeps changing as it progresses. The others are great too. Very very good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

You should go join the Bungie forum. It only takes a minute or two. Use Matt's signature (or mine now.)

09-20-2005, 05:54 PM
Okay I made you an administrator on the Bungie site. And about the 800x600 banner. The largest one right now is basically 400x70. I'll see what I can do.

09-20-2005, 08:03 PM
Don't strain yourself if the fonts don't go that big. Just make it as close to 800x600 as you can. (We're gonna use it in a movie.)

09-20-2005, 09:57 PM
I'm really happy to hear you enjoyed the music Zeus. Thanks for the positive feedback & vote of confidence! As hard as it is now-a-days... I try to remain original in all my work. Project demands don't always allow for this as they want something similar to something else...but Gleam was one of those completely original... no strings attached pieces...it's an oldie but goodie! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Anyhow all joined up with the Source Ages...took me long enough to find an identity that "they" would approve of!

09-20-2005, 10:38 PM
Okay I made u an admin also Neo. Sorry, but I have a lot of **** to do so I can't do the logo till Saturday. Talk to you all later

09-22-2005, 04:18 PM
Hey all. Sorry I havn't been on in a while. I've been really sick, and on top of that, I had a test this week. x_x

I've looked and looked but I can't find where to activate the exporters. Please tell me.

09-23-2005, 08:05 PM
Come on over to da Bungie forum everyone.

09-28-2005, 08:24 AM
Dear Zeusmeister007,
Please could you supply links and stuff to that sdk kit you're on about?

I am interested in what you are doing and, if you need a hand with anything concerning puzzles, maps etc, can you let me know please?

Another game's editor i have found for creating most decent scenery is the editor from farcry called the cry engine. Check it out. Not sure what else it is able to do along the lines of the myst series, but it's worth checking it out.

My email address is dps1969@hotmail.com

It would be nice to create a new myst storyline to continue the saga, don't you think?

Email me Please.

"The real world? No, give me VR"
Originally posted by ZeusmeisterX007:
I always wanted to create Ages for myself, but I could never find a way to make good ones. I'm talking about real-time 3D ones with full rag doll physics and dynamic reflections and bump mapping. I have finally found a way. Using Half Life 2's revolutionary Software Development Kit you can create your own art using SoftImage: XSI (free by the way) and then import it into Half Life 2's scenario editor. I have began to make a "rest area" and a single "Age" that it links to.

Everyone can learn how to do this. I found out about the SDK myself and I am learning how to use the tools all by myself. It would be much easier for me to teach others how to use these tools.

Today, I am modeling a linking book. I already have made a moving linking panel, which is an actual window to the world it links to. It's some pretty cool stuff. I'm not going to release any screenshots yet because everything is sortof laying about. (Yes, it's easy to make a mess in your own 3D world.)

This will be a freewalking world, like Myst: Uru, but with some key differences. Uru did not have any fun stuff to play with. I'm gonna try to change that. In fact, for now I'm not even thinking about any puzzles. I'm just trying to make an interesting Age. Also, you will be able to pick up objects instead of having to lamely kick them about.

The Age I'm currently planning/building is called Hexon. (Name subject to change) It is made up of many many hexagonal crystals which form an island in an endless sea. I'm going to try to add organic materials to it. (but they're hard to model)

However, to try out my demo, (Once it's released, which should be less than a month) you'll need a copy of Half Life 2. Since I don't have a whole lot of action going on, I have the res. on 1024x768 and the graphics all the up (with AA on 4x and AS no 8x) and the framerate is still 30+ even on my crappy machine. So, the graphics will be very good even on a machine that runs Uru on medium.

Please tell me what you thing of this plan and don't hesitate to give ideas. This could be a big group project someday if anybody else that likes Myst has/gets Half Life 2 (even just for the SDK).

Thanks for reading this thread and I promise that I will definitely post a screenshot or two by next Monday. Feel free to ask questions. (My game will definately be rated E, unlike Half Life 2, in case anybody was worried that I would put violence/gore in it.)

09-28-2005, 11:48 AM
I e-mailed you jaja http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

09-28-2005, 05:09 PM
Writing an Age is surely a lot of work!

Master Zeus, what about an open-source New Age (pun intended) project?

I don't know exactly how it would work, but if the concept can be applied to something as complicated as an operating system, surely it can be made to work for a D'ni age or ages.

To put it another way, may be the DRC should be a cooperative ...

09-28-2005, 08:24 PM
I'm not sure what you mean. Could you please restate yourself. Writing an Age is alot of work though.

10-12-2005, 12:13 AM
Just a brief thank you to you Matt for making me an administrator over at Bungie! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

All caught up over there finally... you guys have been busy busy!