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doogerie
05-04-2009, 03:00 AM
I was debatingbetween off topic or here was the USAF involved in BOB

Blood_Splat
05-04-2009, 03:20 AM
I think there was 10 American pilots who volunteered.

jeffmorgan_947
05-04-2009, 03:35 AM
Yes that was "Eagle Squadron" Americans joined either the RCAF or RAF by Dec 7th 1941 there had been 6700 applications submitted "not bad for the then non-combatents" most of the original group that joined early where almost all dead by the end of the Battle of Britain.

M_Gunz
05-04-2009, 04:10 AM
Not USAF, then ASAAC iirc before USAAF. Army units.

orville07
05-04-2009, 04:21 AM
The USA were officially neutral in the BOB (apparently Roosevelt and his advisors privately believed the UK would last no more than 2-3 weeks), though I believe 8 pilots volunteered, possibly facing prosecution, though it is unlikely this would have happened. Many of them were KIA, and I am not sure if any claimed any victorys, there may have been one claim I cannot remember offhand. The "Eagle Squadrons" did not exist as a functional fighting force at the time of the BOB. Kudos to those 8 guys who did volunteer though, but we could have done with a few more.

Dadio2009
05-04-2009, 05:52 AM
Howdy,
Good question, one of the posters above is right, re: the Eagle Squadron.

If you want a great read on the subject get the book - "The Few" by Alex Kershaw. Its excellent.

In 1940 the USA had very strict and unequivocal neutrality laws which stated in effect that if you pledged loyalty to another armed force, you would be renouncing your US citizenship! However, approximately 9 US citizens did see combat starting in Aug 1940 with the RAF. They did so by sneaking out of the US, many through Canada. A US ex-pat, named Col Charles Sweeny, and members of his family had inflential ties to British officials, and he put up much of his own family money to aid in this effort, and fund travel expenses for these guys. Most of them actually attempted to join first in Europe/France, however, the Nazi advance quickly overwhelmed those air forces, and they were forced to flee to England.

The 9 who did join, were first posted directly into 2 RAF units and saw action almost immediately - the 601, and 609th West Riding Squadron based at Middle Wallop. They saw extensive action during Aug-Oct 1940 in repelling the German's during the BOB. Officially, however, the USA was still neutral. As far as these guys knew, they were no longer US citizens, and had they returned home during that period, many expected to be arrested by the FBI upon return.

It wasn't until later, that the RAF, hoping to take advantage of the mounting propaganda affect of announcing to the world their participation, formed the American Eagle squadron. This didn't occur until sometime in 1941. By this time the bulk of the actual BOB was simmering down, and the Eagle Squadron actually saw comparatively little combat.

Its a very inspiring story, I'd highly recommmend Kershaw's book! In fact I liked it so much, I created a 30 mission RAF campaign recreating it, which I'm testing now. The book lent itself very well to creating the missions which span almost every day from Aug 1940-Sept 1940. I'm playing the campaign myself now to test and tune it, and I hope to post it on M4T once its ready! Its completely based on this book, and dedicated to those original 9 guys.

cheers!
Dadio.

vpmedia
05-04-2009, 06:44 AM
I've found this:

THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN IN AMERICAN CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE by Dr. Richard P. Hallion, SES
Air Force History and Museums Program
Bolling AFB, DC 20332-1111 USA, 5 September 1998


http://www.airforcehistory.hq....leofbritainsep98.htm (http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/EARS/Hallionpapers/battleofbritainsep98.htm)

Feathered_IV
05-04-2009, 06:53 AM
I never thought to ask this before, but where there pilots from other neutral nations involved in the Battle of Britain, besides America? If so, in what numbers? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

M_Gunz
05-04-2009, 07:04 AM
I dunno when they arrived but I believe that there were Brazilians flying in the war.

danjama
05-04-2009, 07:04 AM
Don't you know Ben Affleck starred in the Battle Of Britain?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

orville07
05-04-2009, 07:21 AM
Hahaha http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Yes, along with Wing Commander Tom Cruise he saved us all!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

PS, did anyone hear any more about that mooted film "The Few" which was to feature good ol' Tom as American pilot Billy Fiske? Apparently the script and pre-production was done, but it may have been abandoned lol.

*Churchill on the phone to Tom Cruise*

Winston -Billy, we have a problem....only you can save us........
*Tom Cruise*- Ok Mr Presi.....Ah Prime Minister, I'll be right over....make me a coffee!!!
*Winstons Staff advisor*- But Sir, this guys dangerous!!
Winston- Thats as may be, but we need every swinging d*ck in the field......

LMAO!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

orville07
05-04-2009, 07:23 AM
PS no disrespect to Billy Fiske, I am obviously just making fun of Hollywoods rather tenuous grip on reality and Historical accuracy..... hehehe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

doogerie
05-04-2009, 08:05 AM
i was wondering because it would be nice to see a few mustangs and stuff over london and southampton when SOW BOB comes out. but i am expectin a vey detaled spit as thats what won us the battel in the first place well that and the Hurrican. thanks for clering that up guys

jarink
05-04-2009, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by doogerie:
i was wondering because it would be nice to see a few mustangs and stuff over london and southampton when SOW BOB comes out.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Xiolablu3
05-04-2009, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by doogerie:
i was wondering because it would be nice to see a few mustangs and stuff over london and southampton when SOW BOB comes out. but i am expectin a vey detaled spit as thats what won us the battel in the first place well that and the Hurrican. thanks for clering that up guys


Mustangs werent in service until 1943..the 'offical daylight' Battle of Britian ended in late 1940.

Few German aircraft ever seen over Britian in daylight during 1943. The tide had turned and the skies over England were extrememly dangerous for German planes that late in the war.

Night bombers, reconassance and nusence raider fighter-bombers at that time.

Mustangs were used in attack over France/Germany. Also to shoot down V2's.

csThor
05-04-2009, 02:48 PM
Personal opinion: If it wasn't present over the Channel betweenJune and October 1940 it doesn't have a place in SoW-BoB. And especially no aircraft which are nothing but appeasement for particular nations or particular interests. No P-51, no P-47, no Fw 190, no Tiffy, no Lancaster, no B-17 or B-24 ... NADA! It's bad enough that Il-2 had these mismatches - no need to make the same mistakes in SoW.

danjama
05-04-2009, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by csThor:
Personal opinion: If it wasn't present over the Channel betweenJune and October 1940 it doesn't have a place in SoW-BoB. And especially no aircraft which are nothing but appeasement for particular nations or particular interests. No P-51, no P-47, no Fw 190, no Tiffy, no Lancaster, no B-17 or B-24 ... NADA! It's bad enough that Il-2 had these mismatches - no need to make the same mistakes in SoW.

How are these mismatches in il2, when il2 ranges from 1938 to 1946?

Bremspropeller
05-04-2009, 03:07 PM
Also to shoot down V2's

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

VW-IceFire
05-04-2009, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
Don't you know Ben Affleck starred in the Battle Of Britain?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Thats where everyone gets it wrong including the movie. Ben Affleck's character goes over in 1941 which is well after the established Battle of Britain was over. Fully escorted Heinkel raids in the daytime were over...by that point it was night time bomber raids and daytime skermishes across the channel. The movie does the get the plane types right...Bf109Fs versus Spitfire Vs...which is ironic because they screw up the more important types in the Pearl Harbor part of the movie with a P-40E (instead of a B) flying against Zeros and something that is pretending to be a D3A Val but definitely is not.

JG53Frankyboy
05-04-2009, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Mustangs werent in service until 1943..the 'offical daylight' Battle of Britian ended in late 1940.

.

well there was a Mustang before the MErlin Mustang..................

Allsion engined it was in RAF service since spring 1942
-> http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_4.html (http://home.att.net/%7Ejbaugher1/p51_4.html)

but true, it does not fit in the BoB timeframe !

JG53Frankyboy
05-04-2009, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by csThor:
Personal opinion: If it wasn't present over the Channel betweenJune and October 1940 it doesn't have a place in SoW-BoB. And especially no aircraft which are nothing but appeasement for particular nations or particular interests. No P-51, no P-47, no Fw 190, no Tiffy, no Lancaster, no B-17 or B-24 ... NADA! It's bad enough that Il-2 had these mismatches - no need to make the same mistakes in SoW.

How are these mismatches in il2, when il2 ranges from 1938 to 1946? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Battlescenario wise there are some of them.

caused/causes proplems when creating online events/wars.

danjama
05-04-2009, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Don't you know Ben Affleck starred in the Battle Of Britain?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Thats where everyone gets it wrong including the movie. Ben Affleck's character goes over in 1941 which is well after the established Battle of Britain was over. Fully escorted Heinkel raids in the daytime were over...by that point it was night time bomber raids and daytime skermishes across the channel. The movie does the get the plane types right...Bf109Fs versus Spitfire Vs...which is ironic because they screw up the more important types in the Pearl Harbor part of the movie with a P-40E (instead of a B) flying against Zeros and something that is pretending to be a D3A Val but definitely is not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry are you actually trying to argue in favour of Pearl Harbour? I don't think i care enough to go into the timeline of events in that movie....

horseback
05-04-2009, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doogerie:
i was wondering because it would be nice to see a few mustangs and stuff over london and southampton when SOW BOB comes out. but i am expectin a vey detaled spit as thats what won us the battel in the first place well that and the Hurrican. thanks for clering that up guys


Mustangs werent in service until 1943..the 'offical daylight' Battle of Britian ended in late 1940.

Few German aircraft ever seen over Britian in daylight during 1943. The tide had turned and the skies over England were extrememly dangerous for German planes that late in the war.

Night bombers, reconassance and nusence raider fighter-bombers at that time.

Mustangs were used in attack over France/Germany. Also to shoot down V2's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>First Mustang Is were performing low level recon for the RAF in spring of 1942 with (I think) 26 Squadron; the first Mustang 'kill' was credited during the Dieppe fiasco to Los Angeles native Hollis Hills, then serving with the RCAF (who later transferred to the USN and was an early Hellcat ace--truly a double dipper of the highest quality).

In answer to the original post, there were a number of Americans who volunteered for service with the Commonwealth at the outbreak of WWII, mostly via the RCAF and taking advantage of dual citizenships (US/Canadian or US/British in the vast majority of cases). Very few actually completed training in time for the Battle of Britain, although there were supposedly about eight Yanks who served as pilots during that period.

Many more joined the RCAF or RAF and were serving before the US entered the war, and several hundred eventually flew as pilots and aircrew with the Commonwealth, in fighters, bombers, and transports. Many disdained transfer to US services and continued with the Commonwealth Air Forces to the war's end, in SOME cases forfeiting their citizenship.

The interesting thing is that several who transferred to US service from the RAF or RCAF ALSO had problems getting their citizenship re-instated and recognized.

The three Eagle Squadrons were flying combat as part of the RAF no sooner than early spring of 1941 (probably later--I'm away on business, and cannot consult horseback's Liberry O'Doom). The first to see combat, 71 Squadron, had started training with Buffaloes (which they quickly trashed), and saw combat first with the Hurricane IIb, and then transitioning to the Spitfire Mk II. The second Squadron, 121, was sufficiently well thought of that they were issued the rare Mk IXs for their second combat tour on the Channel in the summer of 1942.

All three Eagle Squadrons (71, 121, and 133) transferred to the USAAF in September of 1942, flying Spitfire Vbs until March of 1943 when they were (literally) forced to transition to P-47Cs.

At NO time prior to US entry into WWII on December 7th 1941, did any USAAC, USAAF, Coast Guard, USN or USMC personnel fly or participate in any combat missions as guests of the Commonwealth in Britain, Europe or the Middle East (except as instructors on Lend-Lease aircraft of course).

That would have been an (illegal) act, and had any actively serving US military personnel been captured by the Germans, there is a good probability that they would have been shot (after being exploited to the hilt by the Propaganda Ministry).

cheers

horseback

lbuchele
05-04-2009, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I dunno when they arrived but I believe that there were Brazilians flying in the war.
Yep,a lot of people donīt know but Pierre Clostermann was born in Brasil , in the city of Curitiba,in 1921.His parents was french ,I think his father was a diplomat.
We have our Brazilian Air Force involved only later in the war (1944) performing ground attack duties with P47 in Italy.

csThor
05-05-2009, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by danjama:
How are these mismatches in il2, when il2 ranges from 1938 to 1946?

Sorry, wasn't too clear (had headaches yesterday). What I meant was that in Il-2 we lack key aircraft which are historically relevant (i.e. SB2C, D4Y1, Ki-48, late-war Ju 88 or He 111, B-26, flyable Blenheim, etc etc) while we have hangar queens which have virtually zero gameplay potential (for those who careabout history, that is) except on ******** dogfight servers (i.e. I-185, I-153P, MiG-3U).

There are also mis-matches between maps and available aircraft - sometimes we don't have the aircraft we'd need on maps and sometimes we don't have the maps we'd need for certain types.

Vanderstok
05-05-2009, 02:18 AM
Here's a (free) ebook about the subject:

http://books.google.com/books?...cover&as_brr=1&hl=nl (http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0788111140&id=gUlTH4LsvIsC&printsec=frontcover&as_brr=1&hl=nl)

Bremspropeller
05-05-2009, 09:20 AM
Dieppe Add-On for BoB, anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Xiolablu3
05-05-2009, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Dieppe Add-On for BoB, anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Those poor, poor Spitfire V's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

TS_Sancho
05-05-2009, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Don't you know Ben Affleck starred in the Battle Of Britain?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Thats where everyone gets it wrong including the movie. Ben Affleck's character goes over in 1941 which is well after the established Battle of Britain was over. Fully escorted Heinkel raids in the daytime were over...by that point it was night time bomber raids and daytime skermishes across the channel. The movie does the get the plane types right...Bf109Fs versus Spitfire Vs...which is ironic because they screw up the more important types in the Pearl Harbor part of the movie with a P-40E (instead of a B) flying against Zeros and something that is pretending to be a D3A Val but definitely is not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to jump in late and somewhat off topic but are you sure the Spitfires are MKV'S? Look again at the exhaust stacks, if I recall correctly they are round (MKIX's) Feel free to shred me to bits if I'm wrong about this.
My two cents says as rotten as the Pearl Harbor movie was coupled with my personel distaste for Ben Afflek I have to admit I enjoyed the battle of Britain bit. Ben Afflek the uber pilot gets splashed by the luftwaffe due to poor situational awareness. If they would have just left him dead in the cockpit at the bottom of the channel it would have made a much more satisfying movie.
As far as the American expatriate thing, Ernest Hemingway is about as far as I care to go.

jarink
05-05-2009, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
All three Eagle Squadrons (71, 121, and 133) transferred to the USAAF in September of 1942, flying Spitfire Vbs until March of 1943 when they were (literally) forced to transition to P-47Cs

Just a side note: the three Eagle Squadrons formed the basis of the 4th Fighter Group.
71 Sqn became the 334th FS, 121 Sqn the 335th FS and 133 Sqn the 336th FS.

AllorNothing117
05-05-2009, 01:28 PM
Yes we will let you Americans play SOB BOB we're not that harsh, even if you do "show up late for every war" - Chiken run quote! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

O.k. that done now... Lots of people fought along side us Brits, Polish, French American and loads others, you can check out this vid for all Nationalities, credits to Battle of Britain film! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ext_from=PL&index=49 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLDZkypBHnw&feature=PlayList&p=F64F3676325BC225&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=49)

orville07
05-05-2009, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Yes we will let you Americans play SOB BOB we're not that harsh, even if you do "show up late for every war" - Chiken run quote! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

O.k. that done now... Lots of people fought along side us Brits, Polish, French American and loads others, you can check out this vid for all Nationalities, credits to Battle of Britain film! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Hehehe, harsh!! But if you think that was harsh, have a read of this...RE the seemingly and (thankfully?) abandoned Tom Cruise movie "The Few").

*"Billy Fiske was a racing driver, a pilot, an Olympic gold medallist and an American - but one thing he did not do was win the Battle of Britain single-handed. Veterans and historians fear that will be the impression given, however, when Tom Cruise plays Fiske in a new film called The Few.

"I've heard it is almost like he won the war all on his own," says Ben Clinch, who loaded the guns fired by the real Billy Fiske and his comrades in 601 Squadron during the summer of 1940. "I can't see how they can make a film of Fiske's life. It was quite short. He was unremarkable, in the context of the squadron. He was just another pilot as far as we were concerned."

Hollywood's version of the Second World War has already shown Americans capturing the Enigma code machine in U571 (they didn't) and leading The Great Escape from a German prisoner of war camp (also not true). Pearl Harbor even suggested that the RAF only thwarted the Luftwaffe in the summer of 1940 because US pilots popped across the Atlantic to help out. Now Mr Cruise looks set to expand on that with his own version of what Churchill called OUR "finest hour".

Fiske was a remarkable character who did fly in the Battle of Britain, but recorded no confirmed kills. "It is going to be a farce if we have the Yanks shooting down everything in sight," says Bill Bond of the Battle of Britain Historical Society. "The battle was four weeks old when Billy was shot down. He made several sorties but he didn't shoot anything down, and his impact on the battle was negligible. We are concerned."

The Few is being made by Michael Mann, director of Top Gun, the jet-fighter movie that made Tom Cruise's name. Currently in development, it will be based on the life of William Meade Lindsley Fiske III, son of a wealthy Chicago family, who became the youngest Winter Olympics contestant to win a gold medal, in the bobsleigh at the age of 16. Handsome, charming and addicted to speed, he married the former Countess of Warwick and raced at Le Mans. So far, so historical, and filmable. But alarm bells started ringing when Variety, the movie world's magazine of choice, described the film's historical content. "In 1940, expert German fighters had decimated the Royal Air Force to the point that there weren't enough pilots left to fly the Spitfire planes sitting idly in hangars," it said. "Unable to rouse the US into action, a desperate Winston Churchill hatched a covert effort to recruit civilian American pilots to join the RAF. Risking prison sentences in the then-neutral US, a ragtag bunch of pilots answered the call." The magazine also looked forward to "ferocious dogfights between the overmatched American pilots and the German ace fliers".

This account prompted despairing laughter from Bill Bond last week. "It's hilarious," he said. "Totally wrong. The whole bloody lot. They flew Hurricanes for a start." Spitfires have a more romantic image, however. "Recruited by Churchill? Crap. They wouldn't have gone to prison either." And as for the idea of aircraft sitting idly by in hangars while the brave Americans took to the skies: "What a load of bloody rubbish. We did have a pilot shortage, but not to that extent."

"Riiide into the DANGER ZONE....." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ext_from=PL&index=49 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLDZkypBHnw&feature=PlayList&p=F64F3676325BC225&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=49)

orville07
05-05-2009, 02:37 PM
As well as some veteran outrage about the extent of American involvement.......


*"Some members of the Royal Air Force are blasting Cruise, saying he is trying to hijack history and give Americans credit for winning the Battle of Britain. Fiske was killed when he crash-landed his plane, and he is not credited with downing any German planes, but according to reports, the film will turn him into a key figure in the battle.

"I'm appalled," Air Commodore Sir Archie Winskill, 86, told Londons Mail on Sunday. "We were alone and on the brink of disaster but we stopped the German air force and probably the invasion of Britain. There were no American squadrons and only the odd American pilot."

"Hollywood can go and take a dip in the drink," said 603 Squadron's Gerald Stapleton. It is an outrage."

"Guess Cruise won the War" read a headline in the London Daily Star.*

We hate Hollywood B*llocks in Blighty, probably not the only ones though LMAO http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bo_Nidle
05-05-2009, 02:49 PM
Actually the director of "Top Gun" was Tony Scott, not Michael Mann.

While I am a huge fan of Michael Mann I must admit that when I saw the subject matter for "The Few" I too feared the worst.

However I have seen a documentary on Billy Fiske and he appeared to be quite an interesting chap. Coming from a privileged background and with some notable accomplishments he seemed to be a man of principle and thought that tyranny should be opposed so joined the RAF to fight. He could have stayed at home and lived the good life. I think that does demand respect in itself.

But I still fear that the average American will leave the cinema under the impression that the RAF sat back while some good old American boys won the Battle of Britain for us.

I think the "Eagle" Squadrons would have made a far better subject for a movie.

Xiolablu3
05-05-2009, 02:52 PM
AHh come on Topgun was wicked. Some great Holly wood movies - not all are bad...

horseback
05-05-2009, 06:15 PM
I must agree with Bo that the Eagles make a better subject than a few fictionalized Yanks in the BoB IF the phonies, flakes and prima donnas are honestly portrayed along with the idealists and adventurers from the points of view of the professional RAF officers who had to mold them into fighter pilots.

Think The Magnificent Seven with a dash of The Sands of Iwo Jima for your narrative...and end it with the transfer to the USAAF.

cheers

horseback

Kettenhunde
05-06-2009, 01:43 AM
We hate Hollywood B*llocks in Blighty,

There are quite a few of us who wouldn't blink an eye if Hollywood picked up and moved to another country.

IMHO, they play pretend for a living and should STFU, listening to those who DO or DID things for a living.

Nothing worse than hearing some serial marriage, drug rehab graduate, who did not finish high school give me life advice on CNN.

All the best,

Crumpp

ImpStarDuece
05-06-2009, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We hate Hollywood B*llocks in Blighty,

There are quite a few of us who wouldn't blink an eye if Hollywood picked up and moved to another country.

IMHO, they play pretend for a living and should STFU, listening to those who DO or DID things for a living.

Nothing worse than hearing some serial marriage, drug rehab graduate, who did not finish high school give me life advice on CNN.

All the best,

Crumpp </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WAY OT, but actors are not the ONLY ones involved in a movie. I also think you'd be surprised at how hard most actors actually work. Its not just the 1-2% that actually grab the media's attention.

Those names that roll on after the credits, they're involved in the production too.

My family is involved in a lot of large film projects, all on the pre-production and costuming sides. I lived with a production co-ordinator/2 AD for 12 months and had a long-term girlfriend who was a editor/ post-production mixer for commercial projects/ads/training films and indie movies.

Both of them dealt with regular 3 AM starts and constant 16 hour days for 3-4 weeks during a big shoot. Not to mention 36 or 48 hour shoots for small films because you can only afford to rent the equipment for that long. Then there are the stupid time demands, budget constraints, deadlines, pre production funding wrangles, artistic differences, ect ect.

There is the more subtle psychological torture of not knowing when and where your next paycheck is coming along. Its no wonder a lot of the film industry is neurotic.

A good friends fiance is directing his first film (premiere at Cannes this year). Two years of work have gone into it. He's ended up having to borrow money to fly across to the premier, because he hasn't taken a wage for the last 4 months so that he can afford the time in the editing studio.

Hollywood (and the film industry in general) is way more than just the 400-500 'celebrities' that are its most vocal/visible face.

Kettenhunde
05-06-2009, 03:28 AM
Both of them dealt with regular 3 AM starts and constant 16 hour days for 3-4 weeks during a big shoot. Not to mention 36 or 48 hour shoots for small films because you can only afford to rent the equipment for that long. Then there are the stupid time demands, budget constraints, deadlines, pre production funding wrangles, artistic differences, ect ect.

There is the more subtle psychological torture of not knowing when and where your next paycheck is coming along. Its no wonder a lot of the film industry is neurotic.

I was an Infantry soldier for 20 years; do you really expect me to have much sympathy for this trivia?

I have no issues with actors or actresses. I have issue with people that play pretend who think they trump those who do. I have issue with no it all jerks who dole out life advice or foreign policy advice yet can’t keep a marriage together or themselves out of the rehab clinic.

All the best,

Crumpp

csThor
05-06-2009, 04:47 AM
Hollywood moving to another country? Aren't you aware that exporting toxic waste is not that easy? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kettenhunde
05-06-2009, 05:01 AM
Hollywood (and the film industry in general) is way more than just the 400-500 'celebrities' that are its most vocal/visible face.

Just to be clear, I have no issue with anyone who earns an honest living.


Hollywood moving to another country? Aren't you aware that exporting toxic waste is not that easy?

Obama might give you a stimulus payment if you take them!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ok sorry for the OT....I just did not want ImpStarDuece to feel slighted.

All the best,

Crumpp

Buzzsaw-
05-06-2009, 02:58 PM
Salute

What I don't understand is why Tom Cruise doesn't just make an 8th Air Force movie.

Make a damn movie about what the Americans can be proud of, instead of trying to steal the glory from the Brits.

For example if they want a story about heroes who died fighting for their country, the story of Bill and George Preddy, the two brothers who both flew P-51's for the 8th and who were both killed would be a heck of a story.

Video of George Preddy's six kill day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVH8dI-ZTbA

Preddy foundation site:

http://www.preddy-foundation.org/

Cruise flys a P-51 himself, you'd think he'd jump at the idea of a film which subsidized him flying it regularly... Would improve his macho image too, maybe shake off some the the flake tag if he did all the flying himself.

VW-IceFire
05-06-2009, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by TS_Sancho:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Don't you know Ben Affleck starred in the Battle Of Britain?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Thats where everyone gets it wrong including the movie. Ben Affleck's character goes over in 1941 which is well after the established Battle of Britain was over. Fully escorted Heinkel raids in the daytime were over...by that point it was night time bomber raids and daytime skermishes across the channel. The movie does the get the plane types right...Bf109Fs versus Spitfire Vs...which is ironic because they screw up the more important types in the Pearl Harbor part of the movie with a P-40E (instead of a B) flying against Zeros and something that is pretending to be a D3A Val but definitely is not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to jump in late and somewhat off topic but are you sure the Spitfires are MKV'S? Look again at the exhaust stacks, if I recall correctly they are round (MKIX's) Feel free to shred me to bits if I'm wrong about this.
My two cents says as rotten as the Pearl Harbor movie was coupled with my personel distaste for Ben Afflek I have to admit I enjoyed the battle of Britain bit. Ben Afflek the uber pilot gets splashed by the luftwaffe due to poor situational awareness. If they would have just left him dead in the cockpit at the bottom of the channel it would have made a much more satisfying movie.
As far as the American expatriate thing, Ernest Hemingway is about as far as I care to go. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Rewatched a clip just to be sure....definitely a Mark V with the exhaust stubs typical of the Mark V version. The asymmetric underwing intakes are also a giveaway as is the short nose and the slightly less bulbous engine compartment.

However, the scenes on the ground are interesting because they look like a Mark I or a Mark II.

Blutarski2004
05-07-2009, 04:24 AM
I think that this BoB movie with Tom Cruise should be re-written as a comedy and titled "The Big Wink".

[ a play on "The Big Wing" for those who find my humor a bit too obscure ]

Bo_Nidle
05-07-2009, 06:41 AM
If they want to make a film about a WW2 American pilot there are more than a few to choose from!

Personally I would like to see Chuck Yeagers autobiography made into a film.(Although I do recall reading somewhere that the rights had been bought by Hal Needham, director of such cinema masterpieces as "Smokey and the bandit"!........NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif)

Or how about the 4thFg's Ralph "the Kid" Hofer. He may have been reckless to the point of suicidal but he was a character and no mistake! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

No matter how good it is, "The Few" will be savaged by the media in Britain.

R_Target
05-07-2009, 07:05 AM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
(Although I do recall reading somewhere that the rights had been bought by Hal Needham, director of such cinema masterpieces as "Smokey and the bandit"!........NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif)

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif Smokey and the Boche? The Boche and the Bandit? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

wolfbics
05-07-2009, 07:34 AM
I'm with Bo on this one, even if you wanted to make a movie of an American RAF pilot there's better material than Fiske (with respect) but the obsession with BOB takes over everything.
How about Lance "wildcat" Wade, born in Texas, joined the RAF in 1940, went to North Africa 41' total of 22 kills and died in 1944 on a non combat flight. Spent his entire career in the RAF and was the highest scoring US pilot in the same, even looked like Clark Gable!

danjama
05-07-2009, 11:03 AM
How about Pappy Boyington? Robert Johnson? Gabby Gabreski? Joe Foss? Don Gentile?

There's so many! If they savage the Battle of Britain i will go for them personally.

Kettenhunde
05-07-2009, 11:06 AM
Hey,

We are willing to give up Hollywood at anytime......

AllorNothing117
05-07-2009, 11:07 AM
Hollywood, when will you learn... Look what happens when you try and do a serious film, you go and screw it up. Just stick to your ridiculess special effects and emotionless actors. Top-Gun was great, we all new it was ******** but it was good to wacth. (Personaly me and Dad root for Iceman for the entire duration of the film) But please hollywood don't take yourself seriously, you obviously don't know anything about the Battle of BRITIAN! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif lol I laughed.

TS_Sancho
05-07-2009, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TS_Sancho:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Don't you know Ben Affleck starred in the Battle Of Britain?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Thats where everyone gets it wrong including the movie. Ben Affleck's character goes over in 1941 which is well after the established Battle of Britain was over. Fully escorted Heinkel raids in the daytime were over...by that point it was night time bomber raids and daytime skermishes across the channel. The movie does the get the plane types right...Bf109Fs versus Spitfire Vs...which is ironic because they screw up the more important types in the Pearl Harbor part of the movie with a P-40E (instead of a B) flying against Zeros and something that is pretending to be a D3A Val but definitely is not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to jump in late and somewhat off topic but are you sure the Spitfires are MKV'S? Look again at the exhaust stacks, if I recall correctly they are round (MKIX's) Feel free to shred me to bits if I'm wrong about this.
My two cents says as rotten as the Pearl Harbor movie was coupled with my personel distaste for Ben Afflek I have to admit I enjoyed the battle of Britain bit. Ben Afflek the uber pilot gets splashed by the luftwaffe due to poor situational awareness. If they would have just left him dead in the cockpit at the bottom of the channel it would have made a much more satisfying movie.
As far as the American expatriate thing, Ernest Hemingway is about as far as I care to go. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Rewatched a clip just to be sure....definitely a Mark V with the exhaust stubs typical of the Mark V version. The asymmetric underwing intakes are also a giveaway as is the short nose and the slightly less bulbous engine compartment.

However, the scenes on the ground are interesting because they look like a Mark I or a Mark II. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Icefire, I stand corrected

R_Target
05-07-2009, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Hollywood, when will you learn... Look what happens when you try and do a serious film, you go and screw it up. Just stick to your ridiculess special effects and emotionless actors.

I know. They really screwed it up with films like Schindler's List, All Quiet on the Western Front, Platoon, The Deer Hunter, Paths of Glory, The Best Years of Our Lives, Apocalypse Now, Stalag 17, Full Metal Jacket.....

Buzzsaw-
05-07-2009, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by R_Target:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Hollywood, when will you learn... Look what happens when you try and do a serious film, you go and screw it up. Just stick to your ridiculess special effects and emotionless actors.

I know. They really screwed it up with films like Schindler's List, All Quiet on the Western Front, Platoon, The Deer Hunter, Paths of Glory, The Best Years of Our Lives, Apocalypse Now, Stalag 17, Full Metal Jacket..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Salute Tagert

Hollywood has made great films in the past, but those were at times when directors were allowed to think about a good storyline, compelling characters, good acting, etc.

At that time Studios were run by people who actually worked their way up in the film industry, instead of being run by a bunch of beancounters whose previous job was managing Walmart's West coast division, and who tell their directors to focus on the 'market', ie. 17-23 year olds, with sub-prime IQ's and with the attention spans of gnats...

The golden age was the 60's and '70's, hasn't been much since then.

Peter Jackson is a refreshing contrast, and I am hoping for good things from 'The Dambusters'.

doogerie
05-08-2009, 02:23 AM
ah but remeber that the Dambusters movie will be a remake of a old (but still good)british made(pinewood studeos)movie.

If thay mess it up by oh i dunno putting USAF markings on the bombers and fighters I will not be happy

uppurrz
05-08-2009, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">R_Target</span> :
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Hollywood, when will you learn... Look what happens when you try and do a serious film, you go and screw it up. Just stick to your ridiculess special effects and emotionless actors.

I know. They really screwed it up with films like Schindler's List, All Quiet on the Western Front, Platoon, The Deer Hunter, Paths of Glory, The Best Years of Our Lives, Apocalypse Now, Stalag 17, Full Metal Jacket..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Salute <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Tagert</span>

Hollywood has made great films in the past, but those were at times when directors were allowed to think about a good storyline, compelling characters, good acting, etc.

At that time Studios were run by people who actually worked their way up in the film industry, instead of being run by a bunch of beancounters whose previous job was managing Walmart's West coast division, and who tell their directors to focus on the 'market', ie. 17-23 year olds, with sub-prime IQ's and with the attention spans of gnats...

The golden age was the 60's and '70's, hasn't been much since then.

Peter Jackson is a refreshing contrast, and I am hoping for good things from 'The Dambusters'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might want to do an edit Buzzsaw.

wolfbics
05-08-2009, 02:55 AM
I'm one of Hollywoods biggest fans, there's been a wealth the classic War movies going back to the '50's I've actually got most of 'em in my collection, the problems arise when Hollywood gets totally lost up it's own arse. Actually I think "The few" is dead as a project to be honest but it's a good example. There's a million and one untold stories about US WWII pilots who deserve a movie and to be put on the map with the kinds of daring and heroics where you couldn't possibly write better material if you tried.
Yet Hollywood would choose to have a couple of screenwriters sit down and "invent" as it were the story of Billy Fiske where presumably they would have to fabricate some kills otherwise where's the action and presumably somehow write him in as a key player in BOB turning the tide otherwise where's the story, I mean I just dont get it, I really dont get it.