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Enofinu
02-17-2005, 07:03 AM
i get pissed off often because of kill thiefs.
I shoot enemy plane in flames and leave it then to explode bit later, well, some wiseguy comes and shoots at it, and that way stealin my "kill" (well, points also)
same if i kill enemy Pilot, or take out all the controls, or force enemy to bail out, still there comes some Pri*k and shoots at it and thus stealing the kill.
so, would it be possible to get Kill when u have done enough damage to enemy plane, like taking out controls, killed the pilot, forced pilot to bail out, cut the tail/wing,or set it up on flames, after that damage limit has been reached, you got the kill no matter if someone else goes to shoot the falling plane.
sorry for bad english but i hope you got the point.

now i almost always shoot the thief down rightaway, to teach him not to steal, and i know im not the only one doing that.

Enofinu
02-17-2005, 07:03 AM
i get pissed off often because of kill thiefs.
I shoot enemy plane in flames and leave it then to explode bit later, well, some wiseguy comes and shoots at it, and that way stealin my "kill" (well, points also)
same if i kill enemy Pilot, or take out all the controls, or force enemy to bail out, still there comes some Pri*k and shoots at it and thus stealing the kill.
so, would it be possible to get Kill when u have done enough damage to enemy plane, like taking out controls, killed the pilot, forced pilot to bail out, cut the tail/wing,or set it up on flames, after that damage limit has been reached, you got the kill no matter if someone else goes to shoot the falling plane.
sorry for bad english but i hope you got the point.

now i almost always shoot the thief down rightaway, to teach him not to steal, and i know im not the only one doing that.

Petey78
02-17-2005, 07:34 AM
I'm with you on this one but I'd imagine it'd be hard to code. There've been times when I've had virtually all of my controls shot away but I've still made it back to base without crashing. It would have to be coded in such a way that 'if' you'd done the prescribed amount of damage to an enemy aircraft and 'if' he crashed, you would get the kill... But then of course, there's always the scenario where you shoot out most of your opponent's controls but he's still flying and would still make it back to base. Then some other sucker comes along and shoots him down, truthfully - who's kill is it? I just get narked when I'm obviously on somebody's six, have obviously damaged an opponent very heavily but have run out of cannon and am chipping him away with mg and some pr**k virtually flies into me to get the killing shot. Then, as I try to get one last round into the opponent who I'd done all the work on and could rightfully claim as mine, I get called 'cheap' by the pri*k who nearly collided with me to steal the kill.... Unfortunately, sportsmanship is not something that comes naturally to certain individuals (and they know who they are). I like your sentiment but sadly the practicalities aren't quite so simple. The best thing to do is host the game and kick anybody who refuses to be an adult.

Badsight.
02-17-2005, 09:00 PM
im sure your all big boys here at this forum . . . . .

points mean nothing , seeing your name in the kill message means nothing

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/clippa-whine_killsteal.JPG

if your red , shoot them blues , if your blue , shoot them reds , dont be a PITA , do be a grownup

VonGraf
02-18-2005, 03:37 AM
Yes it is a game but it goes to show who are the honorable and who are not. My squadron, you would be dropped like a bad habit if it were a continous thing. We have a rule: Ask before you take the shot if someone has called the enemy aircraft. On HL there isnt much you can do about it.

Hetzer_II
02-18-2005, 04:37 AM
If it is an clear steel (f.e. burning plane, already bailing, or the enemy just have one wing wing left) i prefer to judge this myself.....

tigertalon
02-18-2005, 05:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
now i almost always shoot the thief down rightaway, to teach him not to steal, and i know im not the only one doing that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, firstly I kindly ask him not to do it any more. Usually they appologise and do not do it again (at least not to same person). But if it happens again (of corse a clear steal - targer burning, bailed, or such...) I teach him a lesson as well, no matter -400 points.

lbhskier37
02-18-2005, 09:16 AM
Best way to fight kill stealers and team killers for that matter is to switch sides and hunt for them.

Cragger
02-18-2005, 03:37 PM
If you know you brought them down isn't that all the self satisfaction you need? If you see someone doing this simply don't help them out when their in trouble or best let them bait a bogey so you can bag it without warning them. But in the end its the self satisfaction you are going for.

I'll give you an example. A few days ago I was on Zekes vs. Wildcats and I was in a F4F-4. A Ki-61 came in and made a pass at my wingman but missed, being slightly higher than him and the other three Wildcats below I rolled in on him as he dove for the deck and directly for his carieer group trying to escape thru the flak. I've got the throttle wide open radiator close and smoothly following him as he jinks letting me close up alittle bit each time. I look back in the mirror and see the three wildcats following but I've got lead and the best shot. Range falls down to about 500m and I start taking small burst shots. Get some strikes hes trailing fuel now.. a few more and grey smoke starts coming out.

Flak begins to burst around us and we get within range of his task force's heavy AAA. My wingman on voice coms tells me we need to finish this now. I hold on a little bit more, he probably won't make it back to base trailing oil smoke but I want to make sure, one more good burst just as the ships 40mms open up and he starts to pour black smoke, I break hard immediately. I've got him and now I want to get the hell out of his ships flak. I look back and see my wingman and another F4F follow me but the third presses on trying to get the kill.

The Ki-61 bursts into flames and is going down minus a wing but the lone F4 keeps following him in right over the enemy ships. He puts one good burst into it right before it crashes into the sea getting credit for the kill. And I watch in delight as immediately the ships short range AAA rip into the greedy F4F and rip him apart.

Let the greedy ones be greedy, you'll get more kills shooting bandits of their tails than fighting about it thru chat.

TooCool_12f
02-20-2005, 05:03 AM
I host dogfights sometimes...

when someone steals a kill, he gets one warning... if he does it again, his connection, strangely, breaks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


basically, you can't do much about it, most of the time...

one thing that also makes me mad sometimes is when you're after an enemy and someone just slides in between you two... you don't have the kill yet, but still, you're in good position... then sometimes, there are some "forgotten bullets" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

bolillo_loco
02-20-2005, 05:11 AM
oh you havent seen kill stealing till you have 7 vs 7 at 4000 meters, you smoke the first guy after the merge and watch 6 of your wingmen dive on the smoker.......shoot over each others shoulders..... collide into each other trying to kill the smoker and then after everybody has a good laugh the 6 remaining enemy do the same to me while my team mates have to rtb because they ran out of ammo shooting over each others shoulders trying to get points for a dead plane........somedays I have to quit playing the game because I begin plotting murder

Choctaw111
02-20-2005, 05:58 AM
I know that you may not like this but why not have a system in place where you can share kills like the pilots did back then. When more than one pilot hit an enemy plane and it was eventually destroyed they shared the credit. If only two pilots hit it then they would each get .5 or 1/2 a kill. If 3 pilots hit it then they would get .33 or 1/3 and so on. If you read about this some pilots will have actually done this several times and even though they did not singlehandedly bring down one enemy aircraft they could have several kills under thier belts from sharing the kills with thier fellow pilots.

Enofinu
02-20-2005, 07:07 AM
well, some servers keeps stats and in that cases it matters abit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and of course, i dont like much mooches http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

cos i know, that thiefes are not the best pilots there is, and that kind of behaviour, they never get. i enjoy to shoot down them, also dont mind about the minus 400 points http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

bolillo_loco
02-20-2005, 08:09 AM
you know, if memory servers me correctly at eaw anybody that put a bullet in a plane got credit when it crashed. so in a total mayhem game at eaw if 7 people put atleast 1 bullet in a plane everybody got 1 kill added to their score.

at any rate........it is part of the joys of online gaming.

Bearcat99
02-20-2005, 11:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lbhskier37:
Best way to fight kill stealers and team killers for that matter is to switch sides and hunt for them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The best way t fight team killers IMO is to A)Kick them... and B)have servers that are side specific.. where red is allied and blue is axis. In some servers it is hard to tell a friendly from eemy if all sides are flying all the planes.

As far as kill stealers go... there really is no wa to stop it... h@ll even the AI will steal your kills....LOL.. The best way is to hit the enemy hard ad early... if you make that first engagement count then whats left to steal.

I dont pay too much attention to points in DF servers..... It is more importa t to me to make it back down to fly again under my own terms.

Enofinu
02-20-2005, 11:54 AM
its really stupid to waste bullets on plane which already is in fire, or lost controls, wing, PK or such. i dont see it wise to make it explode right front of me cos my own plane takes heavy hits from
explosion, cos i usually start to shoot under 100m away.

Ninemm2004
02-20-2005, 04:00 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with "Bearcat99"
And with regard to this topic of "kills"; do not forget that IRL most fighter pilots never even tried to shoot anyone down. Post WW2 USAF studies indicated that in WW2 less than 1% of pilots were responsible for more than 40% of the air-to-air killing. Most guys just couldn't bring themselves to do it. This, not any of the trivia to do with DMs, FMs or whatever, is what makes all these "combat flight sim" games so totally unrealistic. When I play IL2 I play only to get my virtual self and my wingman home in one piece. I couldn't care s**t for "kills".

heywooood
02-20-2005, 06:42 PM
"Blue Max" was a good film for the most part.

The main character, 'Schtachel' was a little too worried about kills....The adjutant had to admonish him at one point saying about an unconfirmed kill.."then you have the privelege of knowing that you have served the Fatherland"
...it should be enough for you to know the truth about these things in your heart and not need 'proof' on a scorecard.

Ofcourse an unconfirmed kill and a 'stolen' kill are not exactly the same thing, but the point is the same.

So much of our lives these days is charted and monitored, at school and also at work, that it is understandable for some people to care more than they should about virtual points.

TAGERT.
02-20-2005, 08:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
im sure your all big boys here at this forum . . . . .

points mean nothing , seeing your name in the kill message means nothing

http://server2.uploadit.org/files/clippa-whine_killsteal.JPG

if your red , shoot them blues , if your blue , shoot them reds , dont be a PITA , do be a grownup <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>ROTFL! Niiiiiiiiiiiiice!

PBNA-Boosher
02-21-2005, 05:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
The adjutant had to admonish him at one point saying about an unconfirmed kill.."then you have the privelege of knowing that you have served the Fatherland"
...it should be enough for you to know the truth about these things in your heart and not need 'proof' on a scorecard. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I know in the US army that you got paid bonuses for shooting down airplanes. That was the whole reason for confirming kills, to make sure the pilots actually got their kills instead of just making them up. Otherwise the Army would be paying them extra for no reason. I'd assume it was the same for other air forces, like the Luftwaffe. But here nobody gets paid. I too find it absurd that this is a huge argument. I would like it, however, if it could be made programmed that the AI would go after planes that are not yet crippled.

Enofinu
02-22-2005, 11:41 AM
not only AI Boosher http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LBR_Barkhorn
02-22-2005, 12:05 PM
Kill stealing sux...

It's really frustrating when you cripple an enemy plane after a long, hard dogfight, then some a**hole just steal your kill without any hard work, and put a message like "Good combat" in the chat...

Things like thath just make me mad!!!!

sunflower1
02-22-2005, 01:20 PM
I think maybe I stole a kill without realizing it last night on Trollville server and if it p.o.'d somebody, I'm sorry. I seem to have Badsight's attitude that I shoot at the other color, period. I leave obviously torched planes alone to use ammo wisely, but if somebody chases their bandit near enough to my Sturmovik's guns I'm going to track him and shoot him if possible. In real life I'm sure this was considered support if done safely.

cow9th
02-23-2005, 12:07 AM
its a bit of a pain but not the end of the world, and in my campaign i record "shared" kills. although obviously not if i shoot the wings of and someone fires a burst into a burning wreck as it goes down,

kill stealing as such can happen in many ways, recently i had a mission where i am sure i got 5 killsi couldnt however think of what happened to one so i didnt record it but my last one made more sense.

i hit a val from below and immediatly killed the pilot, the canopy came away and i aborted.

that was the second kill i got no credit for, i put this down to one of two things, another member saw a val visually undamaged flying along and engages, or AAA hit it aswell as it flew on and got the credit from me.

other times when i have heavy black smoke trailing behind a bomber or fighter i also abort knowing it will go down soon.
the players who tend to go after them are ussually trainees with little or no kills to theyre name, i just mark them up as shared kills.

this may be a problem in online wars i suppose where your points are needed, but witing a squad it tends not to be important.


i found the most loudmouthed whining about stealing acually comes from ppl who lack the killing blow ability, if a plane someone is chasing crosses my sights i will kill it, it is the enemy it needs to die, and the sooner the better.

often within our squad we get kills from the high cover, just flying above the action till someone gets in trouble, they drag them and we bag em.
the guy doing the draggin does the hard work and gets no points, but still he did all the work you could argue thats not fair either i suppose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

the best answer is to get into a large group of friendly players and host your own campaigns, play with ppl you like not strangers.

Enofinu
02-26-2005, 09:13 AM
i jus hate those who came to help and try some "shoulder shooting", its good that there is someone to look that enemy cant make any surrises, but its better that he stays a bit far away and scans sky for other bogies, others dont need to come interrupt when someone is taking care of enemy. if one sits tightly behind enemy and gives good hit on him, there is no need for othes to come there to put alll in danger or shoot at friendly. is stupid that there has been seen 10 enemies online after one enemy, doesnt anyone get idea that some of you could look for other bandits or such.

Yimmy
02-26-2005, 10:22 AM
I don't think too much of the concept of "kill stealing", and as a result I have been accused of it myself on a couple of occasions.

As far as I am concerned, you would have to be an idiot to shoot at an enemy plane which has lost a wing or tail, or that is spinning to an obvious death - and so I do not do it, and get a laugh out of seeing others trying.

If I see a team-mate on an enemies tail, obviously winning the fight, (unless their is other action available to me) I will sit back and watch.

That said however, the instance my team mate loses the enemy, I will pounce on him and do my best to shoot him down. I do not consider this as kill stealing, as my mate had his chance and lost it.... why should I give him time to get back on his tail, when the battle could go either way?

I will also shoot a plane with a heavy fuel leak, or even smoking, if it looks like he may make it home... Hell, if he's on fire, and it goes out, I will get him.

It is a game after all.

NORAD_Zooly10
03-01-2005, 12:28 PM
the really funny situations are when you get 4-5 poeple on your six, all clambering for the points with no thought about teamplay. it happened to me and i took 2 of them to h*ll with me lol.
~S~
Zooly
(now La7_Zooly)

Cess-SGTRoc
03-01-2005, 02:12 PM
I've watched this so called kill theif problem. And in doing so I have seen that a lot of times the plane has been shoot again by some one in a dive or fight who has not seen you or a shooter shoot it down. I have seen other bullets for planes near by strike a downed aircraft and that person get the points, and not know why. so going and shooting down the quote ( kill thief ) just might make you worse and part of the problem. I had one shoot me down from my side, because he said the same thing. Now he is banned from most games.

Cess-SGTRoc
03-01-2005, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cess-SGTRoc:
I've watched this so called kill theif problem. And in doing so I have seen that a lot of times the plane has been shot again by some one in a dive or fight who has not seen you or a shooter shoot it down. I have seen other bullets for planes near by strike a downed aircraft and that person get the points, and not know why. so going and shooting down the quote ( kill thief ) just might make you worse and part of the problem. I had one shoot me down from my side, because he said the same thing. Now he is banned from most games. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I see a aircraft with dammage on the way back I will shoot it also. The answer to this is stay on the plane till it hits the ground. That way you know he is down. I have gotton away because I have dived like I was dead or gone. The shooter went on his way. I shot him down.

Slick750
03-01-2005, 04:03 PM
Stealing a kill is like being the second guy on a chick. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

triggerhappyfin
03-04-2005, 04:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Enofinu:
i get pissed off often because of kill thiefs.
I shoot enemy plane in flames and leave it then to explode bit later, well, some wiseguy comes and shoots at it, and that way stealin my "kill" (well, points also)
same if i kill enemy Pilot, or take out all the controls, or force enemy to bail out, still there comes some Pri*k and shoots at it and thus stealing the kill.
so, would it be possible to get Kill when u have done enough damage to enemy plane, like taking out controls, killed the pilot, forced pilot to bail out, cut the tail/wing,or set it up on flames, after that damage limit has been reached, you got the kill no matter if someone else goes to shoot the falling plane.
sorry for bad english but i hope you got the point.

now i almost always shoot the thief down rightaway, to teach him not to steal, and i know im not the only one doing that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Follow the kill stealin b*****d and crash on his tail when he lands - he gets the -points for teamkilling http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif. Instead of stolen points he gets lot of teamkilling points http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif.

triggerhappyfin
03-04-2005, 04:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slick750:
Stealing a kill is like being the second guy on a chick. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lot of guys online enjoying that sort of thing then. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif