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View Full Version : Nose mounted, convergence.



AllorNothing117
03-01-2009, 02:05 PM
Is it the case that when using nose mounted weaponry, you don't want the guns to converge and set it to 1000. Or is it the case that you don't want it to converge too earlier as you have the potential to hit very far away targets?

I used to have it at 500, but I never open fir until 300 max. if I changed it to 300 I would do slightly more damage at 0 - 300 right?

What do you have your nose mounted convergence at and why?

HuninMunin
03-01-2009, 02:21 PM
Since convergence also works in the vertical it's still rather important even with nose mounted armament.
Fw 190 Manual (http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/f/FockeWulf/Fw%20190/Fw%20190%20A-2%20bedien.%20Waffen.pdf)
Scroll down to the last pages and look at "Zeichnung 32".
I usually set my convergence to 400 m.
It will give you 2 distances where the flight path of the bullet stream crosses your sight.
Once you get used to the ballistic properties of the weapons you can use that for pretty precise shooting at multiple ranges.

PS
Interesting in this example is the different horizontal convergence settings ( 200 m for MG FF , 300 m for the 151s ) because of the weapons different RoFs, muzzle velocities.
Unfortunately it is not possible to enter convergence independently for elevation ingame.

LEBillfish
03-01-2009, 06:45 PM
Convergence in the sim ALSO simulates bullet drop....So part of it is how high the guns are aimed so the round is hitting the spot as it makes its arc.

I see it all the time, joe blow sets his convergence to 500m, gets 100m from the target and hits nothing......Well the rounds are flying over it.

If you're setting your convergence to 1km, besides the fact you'd be lucky to hit that spec in the sky (bit of trig does wonders when you realize how 1 degree gets very big very fast), you ideally want to only shoot at 1km....

Now I've posted many times how one should determine their convergence....Determine when you instinctively shoot.....In the end I'll say this, mine is set dependant upon the plane between 119-179m, and if I shoot you you'll know it as most of my rounds hit.

K2

M_Gunz
03-01-2009, 07:17 PM
Interesting in this example is the different horizontal convergence settings ( 200 m for MG FF , 300 m for the 151s ) because of the weapons different RoFs, muzzle velocities.
Unfortunately it is not possible to enter convergence independently for elevation ingame.

They do set the horizontal to cross where the shells cross the sight line on the way UP, at the closer crossing.
It means to remember different range for each weapon type.

The vertical convergence of all of those is 400m, where they cross the sight line on the way back DOWN.
That is the "battlefield zero", also where you sight target and hunting weapons, at the far point.
Only too bad that by then the horizontals are more spread out.

Notice how relatively slow the MG/FF is that shots fired from about 1m below the sight cross on the way up at 125m just to be able
to cross back at 400m while the 151/20's which are still slower than Russian and British 20mm are much lower angle. Back before
AEP there were common posts about Russian guns being "lazers" for less drop, it is because of the velocity that was really there!

Still, if those charts were drawn to scale then the arcs would only be noticeable over long range, hard to tell from behind though.

A big interest point is how far above the sight line the shots travel and what ranges the crossings and high points are in a half
meter to meter sort of way. Shooting for wing roots it means the difference of hit and miss. When you don't have any idea then
you can only talk about luck. Been there, done it, wasted the ammo.

WTE_Galway
03-01-2009, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Interesting in this example is the different horizontal convergence settings ( 200 m for MG FF , 300 m for the 151s ) because of the weapons different RoFs, muzzle velocities.
Unfortunately it is not possible to enter convergence independently for elevation ingame.

They do set the horizontal to cross where the shells cross the sight line on the way UP, at the closer crossing.
It means to remember different range for each weapon type.

The vertical convergence of all of those is 400m, where they cross the sight line on the way back DOWN.
That is the "battlefield zero", also where you sight target and hunting weapons, at the far point.
Only too bad that by then the horizontals are more spread out.

Notice how relatively slow the MG/FF is that shots fired from about 1m below the sight cross on the way up at 125m just to be able
to cross back at 400m while the 151/20's which are still slower than Russian and British 20mm are much lower angle. Back before
AEP there were common posts about Russian guns being "lazers" for less drop, it is because of the velocity that was really there!

Still, if those charts were drawn to scale then the arcs would only be noticeable over long range, hard to tell from behind though.

A big interest point is how far above the sight line the shots travel and what ranges the crossings and high points are in a half
meter to meter sort of way. Shooting for wing roots it means the difference of hit and miss. When you don't have any idea then
you can only talk about luck. Been there, done it, wasted the ammo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Also bear in mind that not all harmonisations in game (and definitely not in real life) use point bore sighting.

Point bore sighting is actually overkill.

Here is a comprehensive article on the harmonisation used by the US Navy after '42 .

http://www.researcheratlarge.c...PatternBoresighting/ (http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Aircraft/1943PatternBoresighting/)

M_Gunz
03-02-2009, 04:52 AM
At least with the .50's the trajectories are mostly the same, if the bullets are cast well and true.
I knew a WWII aircrewman who said the training rounds went everywhere which could be from too-quick casting or poor melt lead.
I'm sure that there is some difference between densities of certain rounds like tracer to ball to AP.

DKoor
03-02-2009, 07:22 AM
I used nose mounted weapons a lot in game, and TBH there isn't any difference between how you set your conv.
It all boils down to how you get used to it unlike wing mounted weapons where you can't hit squat on 500m if your conv is 175m.
So, if your nose conv is 175m and you wanna hit target at 500m you're gonna have to put your crosshair a bit over the target and - voila! MG bullets may fly wrong (and will fly wrong if you set them too low), but your primary killing weapon (at least on German planes) is 2cm cannon in prop hub.
However, it is nice to set conv below 200m on planes such is Ki-43, because your bullets will virtually hit same spot in the efficient gun range (greater concentrated destruct power)
Hope that helps. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AllorNothing117
03-02-2009, 07:58 AM
Thanks! I think my problem is that i close quickly with a target and shoot from say 400 until 100 and then pull up/down. So my convergence is only right for a fraction of a second. Maybe i should only shoot (if covergence is 300) between 350-250?

jamesblonde1979
03-02-2009, 08:29 AM
With a close grouping arrangement like in LW fighters I would consider extending the convergence to 350m

b2spirita
03-02-2009, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Thanks! I think my problem is that i close quickly with a target and shoot from say 400 until 100 and then pull up/down. So my convergence is only right for a fraction of a second. Maybe i should only shoot (if covergence is 300) between 350-250?

As you can see from above there is a fair variation in convergence, with hunin at 400, lebillfish at 120 to 180, james at 350. Im at around 200-250 and im not entirely happy with it yet, but thats to do with poor gunnery as well.

Play around with it and see what works best for YOU and the particular aircraft you are in.

jamesblonde1979
03-02-2009, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by b2spirita:


Play around with it and see what works best for YOU and the particular aircraft you are in.

+1

Copperhead311th
03-02-2009, 10:47 AM
Well this leads me to all too stupid question of what's the best convergence for the P-38?
Stupid question becuse after 8 years here i should damn well know...but it compleatly escapes me at the moment.

DKoor
03-02-2009, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
Well this leads me to all too stupid question of what's the best convergence for the P-38?
Stupid question becuse after 8 years here i should damn well know...but it compleatly escapes me at the moment. I feel almost the same way... that kinda means that this conv issue is not a big issue at all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif ...

M_Gunz
03-02-2009, 01:58 PM
If you are closing fast then the rate of closure lessens the time of flight of your shots.
The longer the range, the more effective lessening, it is a percentage at all ranges depending on speed difference like 10% +/-.

You can be firing from 400m with 300m converge if you are closing -very- fast. That is easily possible with high deflection,
the target moving as much across your view as you are closing along its path, say 4-5 o'clock approach. You fire a short burst
for ranging, if it goes low then don't worry as you are closing so fast the next will hit.